Subtitles section Play video Print subtitles - [Kelly] On Wednesday, lawmakers squared off with the chief executives of the tech industries four most powerful players, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Apple's Tim Cook, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg, and Google Sundar Pichai. Since last June, the house judiciary committee has been engaged in a sweeping investigation of each of the four companies, honing in on how they stifle competition in the tech industry. These companies have been consolidating power for a long time, and now, Congress is getting ready to do something about it. - Open markets are predicated on the idea that if a company harms people, consumers, workers, and business partners will choose another option. We're here today because that choice is no longer possible. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the dominance of Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google. - [Kelly] For years, antitrust experts have been building the case against big techs questionable acquisitions, predatory pricing, and copycat behaviors. The CEO's had to face those arguments head-on on Wednesday. - Amazon runs the largest online marketplace in America, capturing 70% of all online marketplace sales. Despite a litany of privacy scandals and record-breaking fines, Facebook continues to enjoy booming profits, $18 billion last year alone. Google is the world's largest online search engine, capturing more than 90% of searches online. - [Kelly] These are four very different companies, but the committee use Wednesday's hearing to show how similar they were when responding to competitors. In particular, the committee looked at how each company controls distribution, surveys nascent companies, and how they use their market dominance to suppress competition. - We used to have a policy that restricted competitors from using our platform. - Okay Mr. Zuckerberg, these examples and supporting documents strongly suggests that Facebook does weaponize its policy to undermine competitors. - Is it true that Amazon refers to third party sellers as internal competitors? - We've interviewed many small businesses and they use the words like bullying, fear and panic to describe their relationship with Amazon. - That's an enormous amount of power. - [Kelly] The committee argued that companies like Facebook and Google control how information is disseminated. The same goes for Apple and Amazon, but when it comes to their app stores and marketplaces. - Apple is the sole decision maker as to whether an app is made available to app users through the Apple store. Isn't that correct? - If it's a native app? Yes, sir. If it's a weapon, no. - Throughout our investigation, we've heard concerns that rules governing the app store review process are not available to the app developers. The rules are made up as you go. They are upper trevally interpreted and enforced, and are subject to change whenever Apple sees fit to change. And developers have no choice, but to go along with the changes or they must leave the app store. That's an enormous amount of power. Mr. Cook, does Apple not treat all app developers equally? - Sir, we treat every developer the same, because we care so deeply about privacy and security and quality. We do look at every app before it goes on, but those rules apply evenly to everyone. - [Kelly] Surveillance is key to the committee's investigation. Throughout the hearing, lawmakers argue that each company has used its dominance in the tech industry to keep a watchful eye on their competitors. Google face tough questions from lawmakers who fear that its dominance in search allows it to monitor the web traffic of competitors. This information could result in the company ranking competitors lower in search results. - In 2010, Google stole restaurant reviews from Yelp to bootstrap its own rival local search business. - Mr. Pichai, do you know how Google responded when Yelp asked you to stop stealing their reviews? Well, I'll tell you, our investigation shows that Google's response was to threaten to delist Yelp entirely. In other words, the choice Google gave you up was, let us steal your content or effectively disappear from the web. Mr. Pichai, isn't that anti-competitive? - Congressmen, you know, when I run the company, I'm really focused on giving users what they want. We conduct ourselves to the highest standard, happy to engage, understand the specifics and answer your questions further. - [Kelly] You can make the same argument for Facebook buying Instagram, Amazon buying Ring, or Apple using the app store to fend off competing software. Has Facebook ever threatened to clone the products of another company while also attempting to acquire that company? - Congresswoman, not that I would recall. - And I'd like to just remind you that you are under oath and there are quotes from Facebook's own documents. Prior to acquiring Instagram, Facebook began developing a similar product called Facebook Camera, correct? - Congresswoman, that's correct. - Did you ever use this very similar Facebook camera product to threaten Instagram's founder, Kevin Systrom? - Congresswoman, I'm not sure what you would mean by threatened. I think it was public that we were building a camera app at the time, that was a well-documented thing. - In a chat you told Mr. Systrom that Facebook was "Developing our own photo strategy. So, how we engage now will also determine how much we're partners versus competitors down the line." Instagram's founders seem to think that was a threat. He confided in an investor at the time that he feared you would go into "Destroy mode" if he didn't sell Instagram to you. - Congresswoman, I wanna respectfully disagree with the characterization. I think it was that this was a space that we were going to compete in one way or another. I don't view those conversations as a threat in any way. - I'm just using the documents and the testimony that the committee has collected from others. Did you warn Evan Spiegel, the founder of Snapchat, that Facebook was in the process of cloning the features of his company, while also attempting to buy Snapchat? - Congresswoman, I don't remember those specific conversations, but that was also an area where it was very clear that we were going to be building something. - [Kelly] Finally, the committee honed in on how each platform allegedly abuses its control over current technologies to strengthen their market dominance. Lawmakers argued that through self preferencing and predatory pricing, these platforms have made it difficult for small businesses and competitors to succeed. And in one case we heard from one Amazon bookseller who was blocked by selling books for no apparent reason. - We were a top book seller on Amazon.com, and we worked day-and-night very hard towards growing our business and maintaining a five-star feedback rating. Most importantly, this business feeds a total of 14 people. And as we grew, we were shrinking Amazon's market share in the textbooks category. So now, in retaliation Amazon started restricting us from selling. They started with a few titles in early 2019, and within six months, Amazon systematically blocked us from selling the full textbook category. We haven't sold a single book from the past 10 months, or probably more. We were never given a reason. Amazon didn't even provide us with a notice as to why we were being restricted. There was no warning. There was no plan. - She told us that they sent more than 500 separate communications to Amazon, including to you Mr. Bezos, over the past year. There was not a single meaningful response. Do you think this is an acceptable way to treat someone that you described as both a partner and customer? - No, congresswoman. And I would like to talk to her. It does not at all to me seem like the right way to treat her. - [Kelly] Wednesday's hearing was really just the beginning. In a few weeks, the committee will publish a final report, detailing how large tech firms allegedly violate antitrust laws, and what they can do to fix these problems. By this fall, Chairman Ciciline and company will release that report, and the real work will begin. Thinking about how Congress wants to regulate these companies, or if any of them should be broken up. - We need to ensure the antitrust laws first written more than a century go work in the digital age. When these laws were written in Minneapolis were men named Rockefeller and Carnegie. Their controls in marketplace allowed them to do whatever it took to crush independent businesses and expand their own power. The names have changed, but the story is the same. And without objection, this hearing is adjourned.
B1 amazon facebook congresswoman app kelly committee Apple, Google, Facebook & Amazon hearing: what you need to know 12 0 林宜悉 posted on 2020/10/23 More Share Save Report Video vocabulary