WELCOME BACK.

WE'RE HERE WITH THE AUTHOR OF "BAG MAN," RACHEL MADDOW.

WELL, THAT SORT OF GRIFTING FOR HIS POSTPRESIDENTIAL CAREER IS

JUST ANOTHER FORM OF CORRUPTION.

THERE'S SOME DEBATE GOING ON AS TO WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE

INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE ADMINISTRATION AFTER HE LEAVES

OFFICE, WHETHER THAT'S THE BEST THING FOR THE COUNTRY.

WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE INDICTMENTS OF ANYONE IN THE

ADMINISTRATION, OR THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF, OR HIS CHILDREN,

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE JUST TO KNOW, THOUGH?

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE-- WHAT ARE THE LOOSE ENDS YOU'D MOST LIKE

TO KNOW ABOUT?

>> OH, LIKE TRUMP MYSTERIES THAT NEVER GOT RUN DOWN?

>> Stephen: YES, YES.

>> OH, THERE IS SO MANY.

( LAUGHS ).

>> Stephen: THE TAXES, OF COURSE, IS ONE GOOD ONE.

>> YEAH.

>> Stephen: YOU'VE BEEN CHASING THAT DRAGON FOR A WHILE.

>> YES.

I WANT TO KNOW-- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF FINANCIAL

THINGS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, INCLUDING,

YOU KNOW, WHY HIS GOLF COURSES MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE WHEN ALL

THEY DO IS LOSE MONEY, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO PAY FOR THEM IN CASH

AND NOBODY KNOWS WHERE HE GOT THE CASH FROM TO PAY FOR THEM.

>> Stephen: WHO DOES HE OH, $415 MILLION TO?

>> EXACTLY.

THERE IS ALSO THE SMALLER STUFF.

THE PRESIDENT IS "INDIVIDUAL 1" IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW

YORK, WHERE HIS LAWYER, MICHAEL COHEN, ACTUALLY DID PRISON TIME

FOR THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS AROUND THAT WHOLE

HUSH MONEY PAYMENT THING.

THOSE PROSECUTORS DESCRIBED THE PRESIDENT AS HAVING BEEN THE

PERSON WHO DIRECTED THE COMMISSION OF THOSE FELONIES AND

WHO BENEFITTED FROM THEM.

>> Stephen: UNINDICTED COCONSPIR SOR.

>> LITERALLY, AN UNINDICTED CO

CONSPIRATOR.

I'M SEWER INTERESTED IN THE QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IF

THOSE PROSECUTORS, IF THEY WANT TO, WHETHER THEY WILL BE ALLOWED

INDEPENDENTLY TO PURSUE THE PERSON WHO DIRECTED THE

COMMISSION OF THOSE FELONIES SINCE THEY ALREADY PUT SOMEBODY

ELSE IN PRISON FOR IT.

BUT THERE ARE ALL THESE OTHER MYSTERIES INSPECT.

WHY DID-- WHY DID THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN SHARE INTERNAL

POLLING DATA WITH A RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER?

I DON'T KNOW.

>> Stephen: COULD BE FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.

>> WHO AMONG US HASN'T.

>> Stephen: IT'S A GREAT PICK-UP LINE.

SPEAK OF CORRUPTION, I WANT TO GET TO YOUR NEW BOOK, "BAG MAN:

THE WILD CRIMES, AUDACIOUS COVER-UP, AND SPECTACULAR

DOWNFALL OF A BRAZEN CROOK IN THE WHITE HOUSE."

AND IT'S NOT WHO YOU THINK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

TELL THE PEOPLE WHO THIS IS ABOUT.

>> THIS IS ABOUT RICHARD NIXON'S VICE PRESIDENT, SPIRO AGNEW, WHO

WAS THE ONLY VICE PRESIDENT TO HAVE EVER BEEN RUN OUT OF OFFICE

ON A RAIL.

AND HE LITERALLY HAD TO RESIGN HIS OFFICE MINUTES BEFORE HE

PLED NO LO CONTENDRE, PLED NO CONTEST TO A CHARGE IN A

COURTROOM.

AND THE WHOLE SCHEME BY WHICH HE AVOIDED PRISON TIME AND WAS

ALLOWED TO RESIGN FOR HIS CRIMES, RATHER THAN FACE PRISON

TIME, AND THAT WAS TO KEEP HIM FROM BECOMING PRESIDENT.

IT'S SORT OF AN UNTOLD STORY BECAUSE IT WAS SO OVERSHADOWED

BY WATERGATE BUT I AM COMPLETELY OBSESSED WITH THIS STORY.

AND I THINK IT HAS LOTS OF TRAILING ENDS THAT BRING US

THROUGH TO TODAY.

>> Stephen: IT REMINDS YOU-- HIS STORY REMINDS YOU THAT THE

TERM "BAG MAN" LITERALLY COMES FROM BAGS OF MONEY.

>> YES.

>> Stephen: I ACTUALLY-- I ACTUALLY KNOW STORIES FROM

PEOPLE WHO DID CONSTRUCTION IN BALTIMORE IN THE 1960s AND

50s.

AND GOING IN TO GET YOUR PERMITTING, YOU HAD TO GET PAST

SPIRO AGNEW.

AND HE WOULD LITERALLY SAY, "WE'VE GOT A FEW PROBLEMS WITH

YOUR PLAN," AND HE WOULD LEAVE THE OFFICE, OPEN HIS DRAWERS,

WALK OUT, AND COME BACK IN AND HE WOULD SEE-- IF THERE WAS NO

CASH IN THE DRAWER, HE WOULD SAY, "WE STILL HAVE A FEW

PROBLEMS WITH YOUR PERMIT."

THERE'S A LEGACY OF SPIRO AGNEW'S CORRUPTION AND HIS

RELATIONSHIP WITH RICHARD NIXON THAT LASTS TO THIS DAY AND HAS

ACTUALLY INFLUENCED THE LAST FOUR YEARS OF THE INVESTIGATIONS

INTO THIS PRESIDENT.

IT'S FASCINATING.

EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE WHY HE ACTUALLY KIND OF PUTS OUR OWN

JUSTICE SYSTEM IN A BIND WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRESIDENT.

>> AGNEW IS THE LAST GUY BEFORE TRUMP WHERE THERE'S PROSECUTORS

INVESTIGATING CRIME.

THEY IDENTIFY THE PERP, THE GUY'S IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

AND IN AGNEW'S CASE, THEY HAD TO DECIDE AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT

WHETHER OR NOT HE COULD BE INDICTED.

AND HIS LAWYERS ARGUED THAT HE COULDN'T BE INDICTED.

HE COULD ONLY BE IMPEACHED.

AGNEW ACTUALLY WENT TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AT THE TIME

AND ASKED TO BE IMPECHED.

PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME AND IMPEACH ME.

HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA.

HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD PUT OFF THE PROSPECT OF BEING INDICTED.

BUT NIXON WHO HAS A COMPLETELY OTHER SCANDAL-- WATERGATE IS A

TOTAL OTHER THING FOR WHICH HE THINKS HE'S GOING TO LOSE

OFFICE-- HE DOESN'T WANT THE WHEELS OF IMP PECHMENT TO START

AROUND AGNEW BECAUSE THEY THINK IT WILL TURN AROUND AND IMPEACH

HIM.

HE SAID I WANT YOU TO LOOK INTO THIS, AND WHAT I WANT YOU TO

FIND IS THAT AGNEW DEFINITELY CAN BE INDICTED, SO HE DOESN'T

GET IMPEACHED.

BUT I CAN'T BE INDICTED AT ALL.

COULD YOU DECIDE THAT, PLEASE.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT SORT OF DIFFERENCE OF INTEREST BETWEEN

NIXON AND AGNEW, AND BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY HATED EACH

OTHER AND WERE BOTH TRYING TO THROW EACH OTHER UNDER THE BUS

AT THAT TIME, AND THEY WERE BOTH FELONS, WE ENDED UP UP WITH THIS

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT POLICY THAT SAYS PRESIDENTS CAN'T BE

INDICTED.

>> Stephen: THAT'S JUST A MEMO FROM MITCHELL'S OFFICE, RIGHT?

THE CONTINUAL AT THE TIME.

>> A MEMO FROM THE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL AT THE TIME THAT

THE AGNEW THING IS GETTING FORCED INTO THE COURTS.

AND IT'S BASICALLY A FAVOR TO NIXON AND IT'S A MESS, AND

THERE'S NO SIGN AT ALL-- WE TALKED TO PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH

THAT.

THERE'S NO INDICATION THEY MEANT THAT TO BE A CONTROLLING "GET

OUT OF JAIL FREE" CARD FOR EVERY PRESIDENT WHO CAME AFTER.

BUT IT TURNED INTO ONE.

AND THAT'S WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN BENEFITING FROM.

THAT'S WHY MUELLER DIDN'T LAY OUT ANY CRIMES TRUMP MIGHT HAVE

COMMITTED.

THAT'S WHY HE WAS "INDIVIDUAL 1" AND AN UNINDICTED COCONSPIRATOR

INSTEAD OF INDICTED IN A HUSH MONEY.

TRUMP ORS THAT HE'S NOT IN PRISON OR UNDER INDICTMENT TO

SPIRO AGNEW.

>> Stephen: THE BOOK IS "BAG MAN.

IT'S AVAILABLE NOW.

SHE IS RACHEL MADDOW.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH RAPPER MEGAN THEE STALLION.

RACHEL, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.