♪ ♪ ♪ >> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY.

WE'RE BACK WITH THE HOSTS OF "SLATE POLITICAL GABFEST," JOHN

DICKERSON, EMILY BAZELON, AND DAVID PLOTZ.

I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON PART OF YOUR POINT THERE, JOHN, AND THIS

IS FOR EVERYBODY AND SORT OF BASED UPON WHAT JAMAL BUOY SAID

IN LAST WEEK'S GABFEST-- WE MISS YOU DAVID.

IT WAS WHY ARE THE REPUBLICANS STICKING BY THIS GUY?

BECAUSE DONT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING UP-- YOUR TOM COTTONS,

YOUR TED CRUZS, YOUR NIKI HALEYS-- DON'T THEY REALLY WANT

HIM OFF THE SCENE, BECAUSE IF THE NEXT PRIMARY, THE NEXT 2024

PRIMARY IS ABOUT WHO CAN BE MOST LIKE DONALD TRUMP, THEN DONALD

TRUMP WILL WIN THAT AND STAYING CLOSE TO HIM IS MERELY GOING TO

GIVE HIM MORE POWER?

WHY WON'T THEY GIVE HIM THE DOOR?

>> I MEAN, I WONDER IF THEY WILL AND WE JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE

YET.

LIKE, THEY HAVE A COLLECTIVE ACTION PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE

ALL CANDIDATES ALSO COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER.

BUT ONCE TRUMP IS NOT PRESIDENT AND DOESN'T HAVE QUITE THE SAME

MICROPHONE AND PERHAPS HOLD ON HIS SPACE, ISN'T IT MORE

POSSIBLE WE'LL SEE THOSE PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR HAVE A TOTAL

INCENTIVE TO REACH THE VOTERS ON THEIR OWN, START TO MOVE AWAY

FROM HIM?

I DON'T KNOW, JOHN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, ANYONE IN HIS PARTY OR OUTSIDE OF HIS PARTY WHO THINKS

THEY CAN CONTROL OR DEFINE WHAT DONALD TRUMP DOES HAS BEEN

DELIVERED DEFEAT AFTER DEFEAT.

SO I THINK ANY STRATEGY THEY MAY HAVE FOR TRYING TO MOVE HIM

ASIDE I THINK IS GOING TO LOSE.

WHAT INTERESTS ME IS WHETHER HE RUNS OR NOT OR TRIES TO PLAY

KING MAKER IS WHETHER HE HAS CHANGED THE MARKET FOR

COMPETITION AMONG THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE PRESIDENT.

HAS HE CHANGED THE WAY TO APPEAL TO THE BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN

PARTY?

AND HAS HE CHANGED THE EXPECTATION OF THAT BASE IN

TERMS OF WHAT HE WANTS, WHAT CANDIDATES NEED TO TALK ABOUT TO

EVEN GET A HEARING?

SO, CLEARLY, DONALD TRUMP OPENED THE OVERTON WINDOW ABOUT WHAT

WAS POSSIBLE IN POLITICS AND WHAT TO SAY.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER HE TURNED INTO A TICKET WINDOW.

DOES ANYBODY WANTING FAVOR IN THE FUTURE FROM REPUBLICANS HAVE

TO BEHAVE LIKE HIM, HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THE CONSPIRACIES THAT

HE PROMOTES, HAS TO BASICALLY SUPPORT HIS SET OF IDEAS JUST TO

GET A HEARING IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS?

AND THAT'S A WAY IN WHICH THE QUESTION IS, THAT'S A WAY IN

WHICH HE CAN HAVE A LONG-STANDING INFLUENCE ON THE

PARTY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HIS PARTICULAR FORTUNES ARE.

>> I WORRY IN THAT VEIN THAT NONE OF THE OTHERS-- WELL, I

DON'T WORRY.

NO ONE ELSE HAS THE CHARISMA THAT TRUMP HAS.

TRUMP HAS A CERTAIN CHAOTIC EVIL CHARISMA THAT NONE OF THE OTHER

FOLKS HAVE.

THE ONLY PERSON I SEE COMING UP IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS

TUCKER CARLSON, I COULD SEE CHANNELING THIS.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SUFFICIENT TO HAVE THOSE SAME

IDEAS AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES IS ALSO GOING TO REQUIRE A KIND

OF...

WICKED CHARISMA.

>> Stephen: BEFORE WE GO, TWO QUICK QUESTIONS.

ONE IS WILL YOU MAKE A GUESS RIGHT NOW, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

DOES DONALD TRUMP OUT OF POWER LOSE HIS BASE?

BECAUSE MY THEORY IS STRONGMAN IS STRONGMAN UNTIL STRONGMAN

EVER WEAK.

AND THEN STRONGMAN NEVER STRONG.

THAT THERE IS A NATURE TO SOMEONE WHO IS AUTOCRATIC

CURIOUS, AND A BASE THAT FOLLOWS THAT FIGURE THAT HE MUSTN'T EVER

LOSE.

AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE SAYS, HE'S LOST, AND HE WILL BE OUT OF

POWER IN ABOUT 35 DAYS.

>> BUT, STEPHEN, DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS LAST MONTH HAS

BEEN, WHICH IS AN EFFORT TO BASICALLY REDEFINE LOSS AND THAT

BASED ON POLL, THERE ARE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE

AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE PARTY AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN

THE MEDIA WHO ARE SUPPORTING THAT IDEA.

SO THAT, IN OTHER WORDS, HE JUST REDEFINES IT.

SO IN ORDER, STRONGMAN DIDN'T LOSE.

>> Stephen: I LIKE YOU.

I DON'T LIKE YOUR ANSWER.

>> IS IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT OR BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE

IT?

>> Stephen: I JUST DON'T WANT TO THINK IT.

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT IN MY BEAUTIFUL MIND.

BEFORE YOU GUYS GO, AGAIN, CONSIDERATIONS ON 15 YEARS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK MAKES THE SHOW WORK?

BECAUSE IT IS-- IT IS, TO ME, THE BEST PODCAST OUT THERE.

>> I-- I'LL TAKE A QUICK STAB.

I THINK IT'S THAT WE LOVE AND TRUST EACH OTHER AND WE BEGAN AS

FRIENDS AND WE HAVE BECOME GREATER FRIENDS.

AND IT'S THIS-- I THINK IN A LOT OF PLACES IN MEDIA, THERE'S A

SENSE IF YOU SAY SOMETHING WRONG, YOU'RE GOING TO GET YOUR

HEAD TAKEN OFF.

AND I THINK EACH OF US HAS SAID INCREDIBLY STUPID THINGS OVER

THE YEARS.

( LAUGHTER ) AND WE'VE BEEN HELD TO ACCOUNT

BY EACH OTHER, BUT ALWAYS IN THE MOST LOVING WAY.

IT FEELS LIKE A FAMILY WHERE YOU HAVE THESE TWO WISE PARENTS IN

JOHN AND EMILY, AND I'M SORT OF LIKE THE UNCLE WHO TRADES

BITCOIN ON THE SIDE.

BUT IT'S ALL ONE FAMILY.

>> YEAH, BUT IT'S-- WE'RE NICER TO EACH OTHER THAN PEOPLE ARE--

OR AT LEAST-- AT LEAST I AM TO MY FAMILY.

SO IT'S LUKE A FAMILY WITH, LIKE, THE VENEER OF CIVILITY.

>> Stephen: THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T RECORD YOUR FAMILY DINNERS

LIKE YOU DO THE "GABFEST" EVER WEEK.

>> EXACTLY.

>> WE ALL LIVE IN THESE TWO WORDS.

THERE ARE OUR OTHER JOBS-- WE ALL HAVE OTHER JOBS.

I'M ON, I THINK, MY FOURTH JOB SINCE WE STARTED 15 YEARS AGO.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THOSE TWO WORLDS, I'M INCREDIBLY

LUCKY THAT MY CBS WORK AND THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH AND THE

RELATIONSHIPS I HAVE THERE, AND I THINK I AM-- I RECOGNIZE THAT

LUCKINESS AND I AM BETTER AT DOING THAT PART OF MY LIFE

BECAUSE OF MY RELATIONSHIP WITH EMILY AND DAVID WHO HAVE MADE ME

A BETTER PERSON AND A BETTER JOURNALIST.

AND I LOVE THE WAY IN WHICH WE INTERACT, BUT I ALSO LOVE THE

WAY IN WHICH THEY'VE MADE ME, YOU KNOW, BETTER IN MY OTHER

LIFE AT CBS, TOO.

>> Stephen: WELL, THANK YOU FOR AN AMAZING 15 YEARS OF YOUR

PODCAST.

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO ANOTHER 15 MORE.

THE 15th ANNIVERSARY EPISODE OF THE "SLATE POLITICAL GABFEST"

AIRS LIVE TOMORROW.

EMILY BAZELON, JOHN DICKERSON, AND DAVID PLOTZ, EVERYBODY!

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH A PERFORMANCE BY

GRETA VAN FLEET.