EVERYBODY.

MY NEXT GUEST IS AN AUTHOR, JOURNALIST, AND OPINION

COLUMNIST AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

PLEASE WELCOME CHARLES BLOW!

CHARLES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Stephen: NOW, AN OPINION COLUMNIST SOUNDS -- HEY, IT'S A

GREAT OUTLET BUT IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLENGE.

THERE MUST BE TIMES WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION, WHERE

YOU'RE, LIKE, AH, I GOT NOTHING.

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?

>> I COULD WRITE THAT.

I COULD ACTUALLY SAY, I HAVE NOTHING, AND MAKE A COLUMN OUT

OF IT.

I THINK I'VE DONE THAT ONCE OR TWICE.

>> Stephen: WELL, YOU HAVE A LOT RIGHT NOW.

YOU HAVE NO SHORTAGE OF OPINIONS RIGHT NOW, AND A LOT OF THEM ARE

IN THE NEW BOOK, "THE DEVIL YOU KNOW."

I'LL PUT IT RIGHT THERE SO WE GET THE BIG SHOT OF IT RIGHT

OVER THERE.

AND IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC CALL TO ACTION.

EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE.

>> I'M SUGGESTING THAT PEOPLE REVERSE THE GREAT MIGRATION.

THE GREAT MIGRATION WAS THE OUTFLOW OF BLACK PEOPLE FROM THE

RURAL SOUTH TO THE BIG CITIES OF THE NORTH AND WEST.

NEARLY HALF OF ALL BLACK PEOPLE LEFT THE SOUTH DURING THE GREAT

MIGRATION.

>> Stephen: THEY LEFT FOR OPPORTUNITY AND TO ESCAPE JIM

CROW OF THE SOUTH.

>> A PUSH AND PULL.

P PULL ALWAYS MORE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.

A LOT OF YOUNG WHITE MEN HAD GONE TO FIGHT IN WORLD WAR I AND

WORLD WAR II IN THE SECOND WAVE, AND FOR THE ABILITY TO BE PART

OF THEIR CIVIC ENVIRONMENT.

THE PUSH WAS THAT, IN THE BEGINNING, THE COTTON CROP

FAILED BECAUSE OF THE BOWL WEEVIL INFESTATION, BUT, MORE

IMPORTANTLY, THERE WAS WHITE TERROR.

THEY WERE BEING TERRORIZED OUT OF THE PLACE THEY HAD BEEN.

>> Stephen: WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSED FLIP OF THE PUSH AND

THE PULL?

IS IT A NEW SOUTH IN OBVIOUSLY, MUCH HAS CHANGED IN THE SOUTH

SINCE THE START OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA.

GEORGIA JUST HAD ITS FIRST BLACK SENATOR, BASICALLY THE REPUBLIC

WAS JUST SAVED BY BLACK VOTERS, ESPECIALLY JIM CLYBURN IN

SOUTH CAROLINA JOE BIDEN IS THE GUY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEW SOUTH WOULD BE MOST BENEFICIAL

TO BL BLACK AMERICANS?

>> IT'S ABOUT THE SAME.

HALF OF THE LIST IS IN THE SOUTH, WHERE BLACK AMERICA IS

THRIVING.

THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTE LOOKS AT WHERE MIDDLE INCOME IS

INCREASING, MUCH IS IN THE SOUTH.

YOU LOOK WHERE BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES ARE THRIVING, THE

NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY IS IN THE SOUTHEAST.

THAT'S PART OF THE PULL.

THE PUSH, JUST LIKE THE CRASH TO HAVE THE COTTON INDUSTRY, THE

PANDEMIC MAY WELL BE PART OF THE PUSH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE

SECOND QUARTER OF LAST YEAR WHEN WE BASICALLY SHUT DOWN THE

ECONOMY OF AMERICA, THE PLACES HIT HARDEST, MANY OF THEM WERE

THOSE PLACES IN THE NORTH AND WEST WHERE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE

MIGRATED TO.

THE BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN CHICAGO IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF

LAST YEAR WAS THREE TIMES THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF BLACK

PEOPLE IN ATLANTA.

>> Stephen: YOU LIVE IN ATLANTA NOW.

>> YES, I DO.

>> Stephen: IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE SOUTH IS CHANGING, HOW

THERE'S DYNAMIC NEW ECONOMIES IN THE SOUTH.

WHERE ELSE IN THE SOUTH IS IT CHANGING?

WHERE ARE THE BEING DRAWS RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL ONE THING IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THE FIRST TIME

ATLANTA GOT A BLACK MAYOR WAS 1973, AND THAT WAS THE FIRST

CITY IN ALL OF THE SOUTH TO HAVE A BLACK MAYOR, AND THEY DID IT

BECAUSE, IN 1970 WAS THE FIRST YEAR ATLANTA BECAME A MAJORITY

BLACK CITY.

NOW THERE ARE 1200 MAJORITY BLACK CITIES IN AMERICA, 90% OF

THEM ARE IN THE SOUTH.

ALMOST EVERY MAJOR CITY IN THE SOUTH NOW HAS A BLACK MAYOR, AND

THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE, DYNAMIC PEOPLE.

THE WHOLE CULTURE OF POLITICS IN THE SOUTH IS CHANGING.

THE NEXT STEP IS TO TAKE THAT FROM A MUNICIPAL LEVEL TO A

STATE LEVEL, AND THAT IS WHAT GEORGIA PROMISES US BECAUSE THIS

IS A STATEWIDE ELECTION ON THE PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL AND THE

SENATE LEVEL AND, IN BOTH THOSE CASES, BLACK PEOPLE WERE THE

MAJORITY OF THE COALITION THAT WOULD FLIP THE STATE FOR JOE

BIDEN, AND BLACK PEOPLE WERE THE MAJORITY OF THE COALITION THAT

SENT THOSE TWO SENATORS TO CONGRESS, AND IT WAS THE FIRST

TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY THAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN A

MAJORITY OF A COALITION TO SEND SENATORS TO CONGRESS.

>> Stephen: WHAT DOES THE RESEARCH SUGGEST THE POLITICS IN

AMERICA TO BE LIKE IN THE GREAT MIGRATION HADN'T HAPPENED, IF WE

STILL -- IF ALL THOSE BLACK PEOPLE HAD STAYED THERE

THROUGHOUT THE 20th CENTURY?

>> SO IF THEY HAD STAYED, AND IF YOU HAD STILL GOTTEN THE CIVIL

RIGHTS ACT AND THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THEY COULD CONTROL UP TO 14

AMERICAN SENATORS.

THEY COULD CONTROL MORE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES THAN

CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK STATE COMBINED.

YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HAD -- IF THEY VOTE ALL OF THAT THE SAME

WAY THEY VOTE TODAY, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HAD A REPUBLICAN

PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 50 YEARS.

THE ENTIRE SUPREME COURT WOULD LOOK DIFFERENT.

HILLARY CLINTON WOULD HAVE WON IN 2016, EVEN IF SHE HAD LOST

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE MIDWESTERN STATES.

>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK, BUT WHEN WE RETURN

I WILL ASK CHARLES WHAT IT WAS THE LIKE TO TAKE HIS OWN ADVICE

AND MOVE BACK SOUTH.