EVERYBODY.

MY NEXT GUEST IS CNN'S CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT AND

A PEABODY-AWARD WINNING JOURNALIST WHO HAS SPENT MORE

THAN 15 YEARS REPORTING FROM FRONT LINES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

PLEASE WELCOME, CLARISSA WARD.

CLARISSA, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> Stephen: ESPECIALLY BEING HERE FROM LONDON.

IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

SO THANKS FOR STAYING UP.

>> IT'S OKAY.

I'M USED TO IT.

>> Stephen: YOU GREW UP BOTH IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN THE

U.K.

AND I WATCHED, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF CNN, AND I SEE YOU ON THERE

REPORTING FROM AROUND THE WORLD.

SOMETIMES YOU SOUND LIKE AN AMERICAN, AND IN THE MIDDLE OF

THE SENTENCE, IT WILL SWITCH OVER AND SOUND BRITISH.

IS THAT A TOGGLE YOU CAN SWITCH OR JUST SOME WORDS YOU CAN'T GET

AWAY FROM?

>> YOU KNOW, I'VE TRIED OVER THE YEARS TO REFINE IT.

I OFTEN SAY IT'S LIKE BEING BILINGUAL BUT IT'S UTTERLY

USELESS -- ( BRITISH ACCENT )

WHEN I'M ON THE PHONE WITH AN AMERICAN, I SOUND TO ITLY

AMERICAN BUT WITH MY FATHER I'M BRITISH.

I TRY TO KEEP IT STREAMLINE.

I WOULD BE GETTING SHOT AT AND PEOPLE WOULD BE, LIKE, WHERE IS

SHE FROM?

IS SHE A CANADIAN?

I WOULD SAY, PEOPLE, FOCUS, I'M AMERICAN.

>> Stephen: WHERE IS SHE FROM?

WHAT'S HER DEAL?

YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED JIHADISTS, EMBEDDED WITH THE TALIBAN,

SURVIVED BOMBINGS, REPORTED FROM COUNTLESS WAR ZONES.

RAFF RISKING YOUR RIFE TO -- AFTER RISKING YOUR LIFE TO TRY

TO BRING THE VIEWING PUBLIC THE TRUTH ABOUT A SITUATION, HOW

DOES IT FEEL TO HEAR WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING DESCRIBED BY SOME

CORNERS TO HAVE THE INTERNET AND POLITICS AS FAKE NEWS?

>> UM, IT'S DEPRESSING.

IT'S DEPRESSING, IT'S DEMORALIZING, ESPECIALLY WHEN

YOU'RE ON A FRONT LINE SOMEWHERE RISKING YOUR LIFE TO TELL OTHER

PEOPLE'S STORIES.

I ALSO THINK IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS NOT JUST

FOR ME AND MY COLLEAGUES AS WESTERN JOURNALISTS BUT ALSO

LOOKING AROUND SOME OF THE CORNERS OF THE EARTH THAT I

SPEND TIME, LOCAL JOURNALISTS IN COUNTRIES ARE AUTHORITARIAN

REGIMES FEEL EMBOLDENED WHEN FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS THAT

PRESS IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE OR USES THIS SORT OF MONIKER OF

FAKE NEWS.

I THINK IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS.

THOSE PEOPLE MIGHT END UP IN PRISON OR BEING PUNISHED FOR

THAT.

BUT MORE BROADLY SPEAKING, STEPHEN, I THINK THIS IS REALLY

ULTIMATELY, IT'S A RALLYING CRY, OKAY, AND IT'S TIME FOR

JOURNALISTS TO ROLL UP THEIR SLEEVES AND MAN UP AND, YES,

OKAY, WE CAN FEEL SORRY FOR OURSELVES THAT THIS IS BEING

LEVELED AT US, BUT ACTUALLY THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE WE REALLY NEED

TO STEP IN AND STAND UP HERE, BECAUSE ONE OF THE GREATEST

THREATS FACING OUR SOCIETY RIGHT NOW IS THE CONSTANT BARRAGE OF

MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION THAT IS READILY BEING GOBBLED

UP, SEEMINGLY BY A GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

AND THAT'S A REAL THREAT, THAT IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PEOPLE BELIEVING IN LIES, WHICH IS

DANGEROUS, IT'S ABOUT PEOPLE NO LONGER BELIEVING IN TRUTH.

AND ONCE YOU HAVE A SOCIETY THAT NO LONGER BELIEVES IN TRUTH,

THAT IS UNABLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACT AND FICTION, THAT

DOESN'T EVEN AGREE THAT THERE IS SUCH A THING AS TRUTH, THAT'S

SOCIETY IS UNIQUELY VULNERABLE TO TOTALITARIANISM.

IT'S NOT JUST ME SEEING THIS.

IT WAS WRITTEN ABOUT AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

THIS IS A REAL THREAT AND IT'S TIME FOR US TO MAN UP AND STEP

IN AND DO OUR JOBS.

>> Stephen: WELL, YOU'VE GOT A NEW BOOK CALLED "ON ALL FRONTS:

THE EDUCATION OF A JOURNALIST."

I'LL PUT IT RIGHT OVER THERE SO WE CAN GET THE PICTURE.

THERE'S SOME EXTRAORDINARY STORIES HERE OF SOME OF THE

SITUATIONS YOU FOUND SOULFUL IN.

PEOPLE HAVE CALLED -- FOUND YOURSELF IN.

PEOPLE HAVE CALLED YOU FEARLESS.

ISN'T THAT TRUE?

ISN'T FEAR USEFUL EVOLUTIONARILY SPEAKING?

>> IT'S ONE OF MY PET PEEVES.

PEOPLE SAY YOU'RE SO FEARLESS, I SAY WHAT A LOT OF RUBBISH.

READ THE BOOK.

I'M PETRIFIED HALF THE TIME AND IF YOU'RE NOT YOU'RE STUPID

BECAUSE YOU'RE IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOUR LIFE IS AT RISK.

FEAR PLAYS A ROLE EVOLUTIONARILY IN DETERMINING AND DICTATING HOW

YOU GET YOURSELF OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS.

BUT, YES, I FEEL DEEP FEAR AND THAT FEAR IS AN IMPORTANT

REMINDER TO HAVE THE ENORMITY OF SOME OF THE STUFF WE'RE TRYING

TO DO.

>> Stephen: IN 2019, YOU EMBEDDED WITH THE TALIBAN IN

AFGHANISTAN.

WHAT'S THAT EXPERIENCE LIKE?

AS A WOMAN IN SOCIETY WHO HOLDS WOMEN NOT AS EQUAL, EVEN WORSE

THAN THAT, EVEN ALMOST AS CHATTEL PROPERTY, WHAT WAS THAT

EXPERIENCE LIKE FOR YOU AS A FEMALE JOURNALIST?

>> I THINK AS A FEMALE JOURNALIST WHEN YOU'RE DOING

THIS WORK, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LEAVE A LOT OF YOUR

STUFF AT THE DOOR IN TERMS OF WHAT YOUR EXPECTATIONS ARE.

WHEN YOU'RE GOING INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S TERRITORY, YOU NEED TO BE

ABLE TO ACCEPT THEIR TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT AND ACCEPT THEIR

SOCIETY.

SO I UNDERSTOOD FROM THE GET-GO I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO COVER

MYSELF COMPLETELY INCLUDING MY FACE.

I UNDERSTOOD MY PRODUCER AND I WERE GOING TO HAVE TO SLEEP

SEPARATELY IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE HOUSE FROM OUR MALE

CAMERAMAN WHO WE WERE WORKING WITH.

WHAT I HADN'T QUITE BARGAINED ON IS WHEN I WAS INTERVIEWING THE

TALIBAN COMMANDER THAT I WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO WALK TOWN

THE STREET WITH HIM WHILE WE WERE DOING THIS INTERVIEW AND,

IN FACT, IT CAUSED A HUGE RUCKUS WHEN I EVEN SUGGESTED IT AND HE

GOT FRUSTRATED AND SAID WHY DIDN'T SHE BRING A MAN WITH HER

TO DO THE INTERVIEWS AND I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT'S NOT

REALLY THE WAY IT WORKS.

BUT I DID IT, IN THE END, AND I WALKED BEHIND HIM AS WE WALKED

DOWN THE STREET, AND IT DIDN'T FEEL GREAT, BUT, AT THE SAME

TIME, IT ILLUSTRATED THE POINT THAT WE WERE TRYING TO SHOW, I'M

NOT INTERESTED IN SHOWING THE WORLD SOME SANITIZED GLAMORIZED

VERSION OF THE TALIBAN, I WANT TO SHOW THE WORLD WHAT IT'S

REALLY LIKE.

THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD SAY, STEPHEN, AND THIS IS THE

PART THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ON TO THE NEWS AND PART OF WHY I WROTE

THE BOOK, I HAD THE MOST BEAUTIFUL EVENING SLEEPING IN

THE SAME ROOM AS ALL THE WOMEN WHO WERE THE WIVES TO HAVE THE

VARIOUS TALIBAN FIGHTERS ALSO AND THE CHILDREN, AND IT'S

MOMENTS LIKE THAT WHEN YOU REMEMBER THAT PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE

AND THEY'RE BORN INTO THESE SOCIETIES AND THEY DON'T HAVE A

LOT OF CHOICE OR AGENCY IN THAT AND THEY'RE JUST LIVING THEIR

LIVES AND DOING THEIR BEST, AND THEY TREED US WITH GREAT RESPECT

AND GREAT AFFECTION, AND IT WAS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL MOMENT TO BE

ABLE TO SHARE WITH THEM, WHEN WE HAVE SO LITTLE IN COMMON, NO

LANGUAGE IS SHARED, VERY DIFFERENT VALUES, UNDERSTANDINGS

OF THE WORLD, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK, BUT WE'LL BE RIGHT

BACK WITH MORE CLARISSA WARD.

♪♪♪ ♪