EVERYBODY.

每個人。

MY NEXT GUEST IS CNN'S CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT AND

我的下一位客人是CNN的首席國際記者和

A PEABODY-AWARD WINNING JOURNALIST WHO HAS SPENT MORE

一位曾獲皮博迪獎的記者，他花了更多的時間和精力來報道。

THAN 15 YEARS REPORTING FROM FRONT LINES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

超過15年在世界各地的前線報道。

PLEASE WELCOME, CLARISSA WARD.

請歡迎，克拉麗莎-沃德。

CLARISSA, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

CLARISSA，謝謝你來這裡。

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> 非常感謝你邀請我。

>> Stephen: ESPECIALLY BEING HERE FROM LONDON.

>> 斯蒂芬：特別是在這裡從倫敦。

IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

現在是半夜。

SO THANKS FOR STAYING UP.

所以，謝謝你的留守。

>> IT'S OKAY.

>> 沒事的。

I'M USED TO IT.

我已經習慣了

>> Stephen: YOU GREW UP BOTH IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN THE

>> 史蒂芬: 你在美國和中國都長大了。

U.K.

英國

AND I WATCHED, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF CNN, AND I SEE YOU ON THERE

我看了，你知道，很多CNN，我看到你在那裡。

REPORTING FROM AROUND THE WORLD.

來自世界各地的報告。

SOMETIMES YOU SOUND LIKE AN AMERICAN, AND IN THE MIDDLE OF

有時你聽起來像個美國人，而在中間的時候

THE SENTENCE, IT WILL SWITCH OVER AND SOUND BRITISH.

句子，它會切換過來，聽起來像英國人。

IS THAT A TOGGLE YOU CAN SWITCH OR JUST SOME WORDS YOU CAN'T GET

那是一個可以切換的開關，還是隻是一些字你不能得到的。

AWAY FROM?

遠離？

>> YOU KNOW, I'VE TRIED OVER THE YEARS TO REFINE IT.

>> 你知道嗎，這些年我一直在嘗試定義它。

I OFTEN SAY IT'S LIKE BEING BILINGUAL BUT IT'S UTTERLY

我常說這就像雙性戀，但這完全是。

USELESS -- ( BRITISH ACCENT )

無用的 - （英國口音）。

WHEN I'M ON THE PHONE WITH AN AMERICAN, I SOUND TO ITLY

當我和美國人通電話時，我聽起來就像在開玩笑

AMERICAN BUT WITH MY FATHER I'M BRITISH.

美國人，但我和我父親是英國人。

I TRY TO KEEP IT STREAMLINE.

我試圖保持它的流線型。

I WOULD BE GETTING SHOT AT AND PEOPLE WOULD BE, LIKE, WHERE IS

我被槍擊和人們是，喜歡，哪裡是。

SHE FROM?

她來自哪裡？

IS SHE A CANADIAN?

她是加拿大人嗎？

I WOULD SAY, PEOPLE, FOCUS, I'M AMERICAN.

我想說，人們，焦點，我是美國人。

>> Stephen: WHERE IS SHE FROM?

>> 史蒂芬：她是哪裡人？

WHAT'S HER DEAL?

她是什麼情況？

YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED JIHADISTS, EMBEDDED WITH THE TALIBAN,

你曾採訪過與塔利班有聯繫的伊斯蘭教徒。

SURVIVED BOMBINGS, REPORTED FROM COUNTLESS WAR ZONES.

經歷了轟炸，從無數戰區報告。

RAFF RISKING YOUR RIFE TO -- AFTER RISKING YOUR LIFE TO TRY

RAFF 冒著生命危險去 -- 冒著生命危險去嘗試之後

TO BRING THE VIEWING PUBLIC THE TRUTH ABOUT A SITUATION, HOW

如何讓觀眾瞭解某一事件的真相？

DOES IT FEEL TO HEAR WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING DESCRIBED BY SOME

當聽到有人描述你的生活方式時，你有什麼感覺？

CORNERS TO HAVE THE INTERNET AND POLITICS AS FAKE NEWS?

CORNERS有互聯網和政治作為假新聞？

>> UM, IT'S DEPRESSING.

>> 嗯，這是令人沮喪的。

IT'S DEPRESSING, IT'S DEMORALIZING, ESPECIALLY WHEN

這是令人沮喪的，這是令人沮喪的，特別是當。

YOU'RE ON A FRONT LINE SOMEWHERE RISKING YOUR LIFE TO TELL OTHER

你站在前線，冒著生命危險去告訴別人。

PEOPLE'S STORIES.

人民的故事。

I ALSO THINK IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS NOT JUST

我也認為這可能是非常危險的 不僅僅是。

FOR ME AND MY COLLEAGUES AS WESTERN JOURNALISTS BUT ALSO

對我和我的同事們來說，作為西方記者，但也是如此

LOOKING AROUND SOME OF THE CORNERS OF THE EARTH THAT I

環顧地球上的一些山角，我發現...

SPEND TIME, LOCAL JOURNALISTS IN COUNTRIES ARE AUTHORITARIAN

花時間，各國的地方記者都是權威人士

REGIMES FEEL EMBOLDENED WHEN FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS THAT

前總統特朗普說，各政權感到很有面子。

PRESS IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE OR USES THIS SORT OF MONIKER OF

媒體是人民的敵人或使用這種名義的

FAKE NEWS.

假新聞。

I THINK IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS.

我認為它可能是非常危險的。

THOSE PEOPLE MIGHT END UP IN PRISON OR BEING PUNISHED FOR

這些人可能最終會被關進監獄或受到懲罰。

THAT.

那。

BUT MORE BROADLY SPEAKING, STEPHEN, I THINK THIS IS REALLY

但是，更廣泛地講，STEPHEN，我想這是真正的。

ULTIMATELY, IT'S A RALLYING CRY, OKAY, AND IT'S TIME FOR

是的，這是一個團結的呼聲，好的，現在是時候了。

JOURNALISTS TO ROLL UP THEIR SLEEVES AND MAN UP AND, YES,

記者們要捲起袖子，像個男人一樣，是的。

OKAY, WE CAN FEEL SORRY FOR OURSELVES THAT THIS IS BEING

好吧，我們可以為我們自己感到遺憾，這是被。

LEVELED AT US, BUT ACTUALLY THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE WE REALLY NEED

水準在我們身上，但實際上這是一個時刻，我們真的需要的。

TO STEP IN AND STAND UP HERE, BECAUSE ONE OF THE GREATEST

踏入並站在這裡，因為一個最偉大的

THREATS FACING OUR SOCIETY RIGHT NOW IS THE CONSTANT BARRAGE OF

我們社會目前面臨的威脅是持續不斷的炮彈。

MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION THAT IS READILY BEING GOBBLED

誤導性資訊，隨時被搶注的虛假資訊。

UP, SEEMINGLY BY A GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

了，似乎是由世界上越來越多的人。

AND THAT'S A REAL THREAT, THAT IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

這是一個真正的威脅， 這是嚴重的業務。

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PEOPLE BELIEVING IN LIES, WHICH IS

這不僅僅是人們相信謊言的問題，這也是...

DANGEROUS, IT'S ABOUT PEOPLE NO LONGER BELIEVING IN TRUTH.

危險，這是關於人們不再相信真理的問題。

AND ONCE YOU HAVE A SOCIETY THAT NO LONGER BELIEVES IN TRUTH,

一旦你有一個社會，不再相信真理，

THAT IS UNABLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACT AND FICTION, THAT

是無法區分事實和虛構之間，這

DOESN'T EVEN AGREE THAT THERE IS SUCH A THING AS TRUTH, THAT'S

甚至不同意有一個這樣的東西作為真理，這是

SOCIETY IS UNIQUELY VULNERABLE TO TOTALITARIANISM.

社會是獨特的，容易受到道達爾主義的影響。

IT'S NOT JUST ME SEEING THIS.

不只是我看到這個。

IT WAS WRITTEN ABOUT AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

它是在第二次世界大戰後寫的。

THIS IS A REAL THREAT AND IT'S TIME FOR US TO MAN UP AND STEP

這是一個真正的威脅，現在是時候我們的男人和步驟。

IN AND DO OUR JOBS.

在和做我們的工作。

>> Stephen: WELL, YOU'VE GOT A NEW BOOK CALLED "ON ALL FRONTS:

>> 斯蒂芬：好吧，你有一本新書叫《在所有的戰線上》。

THE EDUCATION OF A JOURNALIST."

一個記者的教育。"

I'LL PUT IT RIGHT OVER THERE SO WE CAN GET THE PICTURE.

我把它放在那裡，讓我們可以得到的圖片。

THERE'S SOME EXTRAORDINARY STORIES HERE OF SOME OF THE

這裡有一些奇特的故事，是關於一些人的。

SITUATIONS YOU FOUND SOULFUL IN.

你在其中找到了靈魂的情境。

PEOPLE HAVE CALLED -- FOUND YOURSELF IN.

人們打電話給你，發現你在。

PEOPLE HAVE CALLED YOU FEARLESS.

人們稱你為 "無畏"。

ISN'T THAT TRUE?

是不是真的？

ISN'T FEAR USEFUL EVOLUTIONARILY SPEAKING?

恐懼不是有用的進化論嗎？

>> IT'S ONE OF MY PET PEEVES.

>> 這是我的一個小癖好。

PEOPLE SAY YOU'RE SO FEARLESS, I SAY WHAT A LOT OF RUBBISH.

人們說你是如此的恐懼，我說什麼是一堆垃圾。

READ THE BOOK.

閱讀這本書。

I'M PETRIFIED HALF THE TIME AND IF YOU'RE NOT YOU'RE STUPID

我有一半的時間都被嚇壞了，如果你不這樣做，你就是傻子。

BECAUSE YOU'RE IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOUR LIFE IS AT RISK.

因為你的生命處於危險之中。

FEAR PLAYS A ROLE EVOLUTIONARILY IN DETERMINING AND DICTATING HOW

恐懼在決定和決定人們的生活方式方面起著演變的作用。

YOU GET YOURSELF OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS.

你要從這些情況中解脫出來。

BUT, YES, I FEEL DEEP FEAR AND THAT FEAR IS AN IMPORTANT

但是，是的，我感受到了深深的恐懼，這種恐懼是很重要的。

REMINDER TO HAVE THE ENORMITY OF SOME OF THE STUFF WE'RE TRYING

提醒大家要有一些我們正在嘗試的東西的規範性。

TO DO.

要做的：

>> Stephen: IN 2019, YOU EMBEDDED WITH THE TALIBAN IN

>> 斯蒂芬：在2019年，你在塔利班嵌入了

AFGHANISTAN.

阿富汗：

WHAT'S THAT EXPERIENCE LIKE?

那體驗是怎樣的？

AS A WOMAN IN SOCIETY WHO HOLDS WOMEN NOT AS EQUAL, EVEN WORSE

作為一個在社會中對婦女不平等，甚至更糟的婦女。

THAN THAT, EVEN ALMOST AS CHATTEL PROPERTY, WHAT WAS THAT

那，即使是作為茶館的財產，那是什麼？

EXPERIENCE LIKE FOR YOU AS A FEMALE JOURNALIST?

作為一個女記者，你的經驗是什麼？

>> I THINK AS A FEMALE JOURNALIST WHEN YOU'RE DOING

>> 當你在做的時候，我以一個女記者的身份來思考

THIS WORK, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LEAVE A LOT OF YOUR

這項工作，你必須願意留下很多你的。

STUFF AT THE DOOR IN TERMS OF WHAT YOUR EXPECTATIONS ARE.

門口的東西以你的期望值為標準。

WHEN YOU'RE GOING INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S TERRITORY, YOU NEED TO BE

當你進入別人的領地時，你必須要做的是

ABLE TO ACCEPT THEIR TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT AND ACCEPT THEIR

能夠接受他們的承諾條款，並接受他們的承諾。

SOCIETY.

社會：

SO I UNDERSTOOD FROM THE GET-GO I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO COVER

所以我從一開始就明白，我必須覆蓋

MYSELF COMPLETELY INCLUDING MY FACE.

我自己完全包括我的臉。

I UNDERSTOOD MY PRODUCER AND I WERE GOING TO HAVE TO SLEEP

我明白了我的製片人，我將不得不睡覺。

SEPARATELY IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE HOUSE FROM OUR MALE

分開在房子的不同部分，與我們的男性。

CAMERAMAN WHO WE WERE WORKING WITH.

我們合作的攝影師：

WHAT I HADN'T QUITE BARGAINED ON IS WHEN I WAS INTERVIEWING THE

我沒有討價還價的是，當我在採訪的時候。

TALIBAN COMMANDER THAT I WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO WALK TOWN

塔利班指揮官說，我不會被允許在城市裡散步

THE STREET WITH HIM WHILE WE WERE DOING THIS INTERVIEW AND,

街頭與他，當我們做這個採訪，並。

IN FACT, IT CAUSED A HUGE RUCKUS WHEN I EVEN SUGGESTED IT AND HE

事實上，它引起了巨大的喧囂，當我甚至建議它，他

GOT FRUSTRATED AND SAID WHY DIDN'T SHE BRING A MAN WITH HER

我很生氣，說她為什麼不帶個男人來

TO DO THE INTERVIEWS AND I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT'S NOT

做採訪，我試圖解釋，這不是。

REALLY THE WAY IT WORKS.

真正的工作方式。

BUT I DID IT, IN THE END, AND I WALKED BEHIND HIM AS WE WALKED

但我做到了，最後，我走在他的後面，我們一起走。

DOWN THE STREET, AND IT DIDN'T FEEL GREAT, BUT, AT THE SAME

在大街上，它並沒有感覺很好，但在同一時間，它的感覺。

TIME, IT ILLUSTRATED THE POINT THAT WE WERE TRYING TO SHOW, I'M

時間，它說明了我們想展示的觀點，我是。

NOT INTERESTED IN SHOWING THE WORLD SOME SANITIZED GLAMORIZED

沒有興趣向世界展示一些消毒過的華麗的東西

VERSION OF THE TALIBAN, I WANT TO SHOW THE WORLD WHAT IT'S

塔里班的版本，我想向世界展示它是什麼。

REALLY LIKE.

真的很喜歡。

THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD SAY, STEPHEN, AND THIS IS THE

我唯一想說的是，Stephen，這是我唯一想說的。

PART THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ON TO THE NEWS AND PART OF WHY I WROTE

沒有上新聞的部分，也是我寫作的部分原因。

THE BOOK, I HAD THE MOST BEAUTIFUL EVENING SLEEPING IN

這本書，我有一個最美麗的夜晚睡在

THE SAME ROOM AS ALL THE WOMEN WHO WERE THE WIVES TO HAVE THE

與所有做妻子的女人同處一室。

VARIOUS TALIBAN FIGHTERS ALSO AND THE CHILDREN, AND IT'S

各種塔利班戰士也和孩子們，它是

MOMENTS LIKE THAT WHEN YOU REMEMBER THAT PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE

這樣的時刻，當你想起人是人的時候

AND THEY'RE BORN INTO THESE SOCIETIES AND THEY DON'T HAVE A

他們出生在這些社會，他們沒有一個。

LOT OF CHOICE OR AGENCY IN THAT AND THEY'RE JUST LIVING THEIR

很多選擇或機構在這一點上，他們只是生活在自己的。

LIVES AND DOING THEIR BEST, AND THEY TREED US WITH GREAT RESPECT

生活，做他們最好的，他們以極大的尊重對待我們。

AND GREAT AFFECTION, AND IT WAS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL MOMENT TO BE

和偉大的影響，它是一個真正美麗的時刻，是

ABLE TO SHARE WITH THEM, WHEN WE HAVE SO LITTLE IN COMMON, NO

能夠與他們分享，當我們有這麼少的共同點，沒有。

LANGUAGE IS SHARED, VERY DIFFERENT VALUES, UNDERSTANDINGS

語言是共享的，價值觀和理解非常不同。

OF THE WORLD, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

我認為這很重要。

>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK, BUT WE'LL BE RIGHT

>> 我們必須快速休息一下，但我們馬上就好。

BACK WITH MORE CLARISSA WARD.

回到更多的CLARISSA WARD。

♪♪♪ ♪

♪♪♪ ♪