from BBC Learning English.

I’m Sam.

And I’m Neil.

Neil, would you describe yourself

as ‘a numbers person’?

If you mean, am I someone who

understands numbers and is good

as using them and interpreting

data, then no!

OK. So, maybe like me, you weren’t

good at maths at school?

No, I wasn’t. Algebra, geometry, times

tables – it was all very confusing.

We’re not alone, Neil. But the fear of

numbers might just be in our heads and

we might have enough number

knowledge to get by with. That’s what

we’ll be exploring in this programme

while looking at some relevant

vocabulary. But, sorry, Neil, I’m

going to start with a maths question!

It’s thought the largest number in

the world is called a googol.

It’s written with a 1 and how

many zeros? Is it…

a) A hundred zeros

b) A thousand zeros, or

c) Ten thousand zeros?

I’ll guess ten thousand zeros.

OK. I’ll reveal the answer later on.

But let’s talk more about the fear

of numbers now. Of course,

numbers are important in our

lives but one bad experience at

school can put us off them for life.

‘Put off’ means make someone

dislike something.

What put me off maths was it

was not only complicated but very

theoretical – and not very

practical – useful for real-life situations.

And the problem now is, it’s easy to be

fooled by fancy figures that

we get told about.

This is something The Why Factor

programme on BBC World Service

has been exploring. They spoke to

Charles Seife, who’s an author

and professor at New York

University, who explained why we

are at the mercy of people who

throw numbers at us ...

Because we are primed not to

question numbers, certain people

have learned that numbers are

perhaps the most powerful tools

for deception... advertisers,

marketers, politicians, who try to

convince the public through

spurious oratory - have learned

that the one thing they can't get

challenged on is numbers or

challenges are ineffective.

Interesting words from Charles Seife

there. He explains that numbers

might be a powerful tool for

deceiving people. Many of us

are primed – so, told to behave in

a certain situation and in a certain

way – not to question numbers,

accept them as fact.

Yes, and this is dangerous. So,

when politicians, for example,

do good and effective public

speaking – known as oratory –

the information they give

could be spurious – that

means false, not correct or

inaccurate. But numbers are

more persuasive – they make

you believe something is true.

So, unless you’re confident

with numbers, you’re unlikely

to challenge the facts and

figures that you are given.

So, Sam, if I said to you ten

per cent of the ten million

people who eat meat have a

twenty per cent chance of being

five per cent overweight –

would you challenge that?

I’d have to go away and work

that out! As I said, Neil, I’m not

a numbers person. Even talking

about numbers makes

me anxious.

Well, interestingly, The Why Factor

programme explained that girls

are more anxious about learning

maths, but even if they feel more

nervous about maths, they aren’t

any worse with numbers than

their more confident classmates.

It’s just the fear that’s

stopping you!

Well, maybe, but one bad

experience can knock our

confidence and ability

to use maths.

Take comfort from Paula Miles,

who teaches statistics to psychology

students at St. Andrews University.

She told The Why Factor that she

thinks there’s no such thing

as ‘a numbers person’...

There is no such thing as

someone who is a 'number person'

or not. If we're taught in

the right way, then I think we

all have the potential to be a

numbers person. I'm not saying

we're all going to grow up to

be mathematicians but we're

all going to get to a point where

we have the basic numeracy

skills that we need to be able

to cope in our environment...

I feel a little better now! We all

have the possibility within

us – or potential – to be

a numbers person.

Yes, I think it’s about survival.

We want to develop numeracy –

basic mathematical skills – to

use numbers in a particular

situation that we are in. We

might not be a genius like

Einstein, but we know enough

to work things out.

I wonder if you worked out the

answer to my question correctly,

Neil? Earlier, I asked about

what’s thought to be the largest

number in the world - called a

googol. How many zeros does

it have? A hundred zeros, a

thousand zeros, or

ten thousand zeros?

I said ten thousand zeros.

Sorry, Neil. A googol is ten to the

100th power – so a mere 100 zeros.

I don’t think I’ll be using that number

anytime soon. But I might be using

some of the vocabulary we’ve

discussed today, including

a numbers person…

… that’s someone who understands

numbers and is good as using them

and interpreting data – not like us!

If you are put off by something, it

means you are made to dislike

something. And to be primed

means told to behave in

a certain situation.

The skill of effective public speaking

is known as oratory. And

spurious means false, inaccurate,

or not correct.

And when we have the possibility

within us to do something, we

describe it as our potential.

And having numeracy means

having basic mathematical skills.

But now we’ve reached the

number six – six minutes of English.

Thanks very much for

listening and goodbye.

Bye.