for the vast majority of the world's carbon emissions and they got rich in the process.

世界上絕大部分的碳排放都是由他們造成的，他們在這個過程中發了財。

Poorer countries, on the other hand, have contributed little to the climate crisis,

另一方面，較貧窮的國家對氣候危機的貢獻很小。

but are set to feel the worst effects.

但將會感受到最嚴重的影響。

They want help or to be blunt, they  want money. And they want it now.

他們想要幫助，或者直截了當地說，他們想要錢。而且他們現在就想得到它。

Pakistan emits under 1% of global emissions, but it's the eighth most vulnerable country.

巴基斯坦的排放量不到全球排放量的1%，但它是第八個最脆弱的國家。

Zain Moulvi is a lawyer in Pakistan for the Alternative Law Collective,

扎因-穆爾維(Zain Moulvi)是替代法集體在巴基斯坦的一名律師。

a group of lawyers and academics committed to social, economic and environmental justice.

一個致力於社會、經濟和環境正義的律師和學者團體。

Pakistan has actually had climate-related disasters for a lot of years now,  

巴基斯坦實際上已經有很多年與氣候有關的災難了。

something to the tune of $22 billion in material damages.

價值220億美元的物質損失的東西。

I think over 11,000 or 12,000 people killed, roughly 60 million people affected.

我想超過11,000或12,000人被殺，大約有6千萬人受到影響。

NASA's Earth Observatory has  captured the devastation caused

美國宇航局的地球觀測站捕捉到了所造成的破壞性。

by 2022's extreme monsoon rains, the  country's worst flooding in a decade.

受到2022年極端季風降雨的影響，這是該國十年來最嚴重的洪災。

But if you look at the countries most responsible for climate change, Pakistan isn't one of them.

但如果你看一下對氣候變化負有最大責任的國家，巴基斯坦並不在其中。

Since 1850, the U.S. has cumulatively emitted more than 500 billion tonnes of CO2.

自1850年以來，美國已經累計排放了超過5000億噸的二氧化碳。

That's nearly double the next largest emitter, China, and three times that of Russia.

這幾乎是第二大排放國中國的兩倍，是俄羅斯的三倍。

And yet, the risk of humanitarian crises and disasters stemming from climate change for

然而，由氣候變化引起的人道主義危機和災難的風險，對中國人來說是一個巨大的挑戰。

these countries is relatively low.

這兩個國家的人口比例相對較低。

Joint research from the European Commission and other international agencies

歐盟委員會和其他國際機構的聯合研究

found it's generally lower-income, lower-emission countries facing the highest risk.

發現一般是低收入、低排放的國家面臨最高的風險。

A ranking of 191 countries placed China as the 77th most exposed nation.

在191個國家的排名中，中國被列為第77個曝光率最高的國家。

Russia is further down the list at 97, and the U.S. doesn't even make the top 100. 

俄羅斯的排名更靠後，為97名，美國甚至沒有進入前100名。

In Washington D.C., international organizations are discussing climate finance for these at-risk nations.

在華盛頓特區，國際組織正在討論為這些面臨風險的國家提供氣候融資。

Gaia Larsen works on access and deployment of climate finance

蓋亞-拉森從事氣候融資的獲取和部署工作

for the research organization World Resources Institute. 

為研究組織世界資源研究所。

The definition of a developing country is that they have less money essentially.

開發中國家的定義是，他們的錢基本上都比較少。

And so, they have less capacity to just simply buy things that one might need

是以，他們的能力較弱，只是簡單地購買人們可能需要的東西。

to deal with a catastrophe like emergency food, or stronger bridges.

以應對災難，如緊急食品，或更強大的橋樑。

It really leads these countries to be more at the whim of the weather.

這確實導致這些國家更多的受天氣的影響。

How important  is the role of those richer countries in helping

這些較富裕的國家在協助中國發展方面的作用有多重要？

those developing nations combat extreme weather?

那些開發中國家對抗極端天氣？

It's vital. And I'd say for two reasons.  One is they have the money, or more of it,  

這一點至關重要。我想說有兩個原因。 一個是他們有錢，或者有更多的錢。

And just from a justice perspective,  they got rich on the problem that we now have.

而僅僅從司法的角度來看，他們在我們現在的問題上發了財。

In 1992, the United Nations Framework Convention of Climate Change was adopted

1992年，《聯合國氣候變化框架公約》獲得通過

at the UN headquarters, which in its third paragraph noted this very issue. 

在聯合國總部舉行的會議上，其第三段指出了這一問題。

Since then, 198 parties have come on board with  the environmental treaty and have met regularly  

此後，198個締約方加入了環境條約，並定期舉行會議。

at the Conference of the Parties, otherwise  known as COP, to make decisions regarding

在締約方會議（又稱締約方大會）上，就以下問題作出決定

the implementation of the document.

文件的執行。

In 2009 at COP15, developed countries  committed to jointly mobilizing $100 billion

2009年，在締約方大會第十五屆會議上，發達國家承諾共同籌集1000億美元的資金。

annually in climate finance by 2020,  to support developing countries with reducing  

到2020年，每年的氣候融資將達到1.5億美元，以支持開發中國家減少對環境的影響。

emissions and adapting to climate change.

排放和適應氣候變化。

In 2015, the target was delayed to 2025.

2015年，該目標被延後到2025年。

In 2020, those developed economies provided $83.3 billion, falling $16.7 billion short of the original target. 

在2020年，這些發達經濟體提供了833億美元，比最初的目標少了167億美元。

So they've gotten up to around 80%. It's a lot of times an internal politics issue.

所以他們已經達到了80%左右。很多時候，這是一個內部政治問題。

The people within those countries think well, why are we spending money over there?

這些國家的人認為，我們為什麼要在那裡花錢？

We should be spending it here.

我們應該在這裡消費。

Egypt, the host of the COP27, want climate finance to  sit at the top of the agenda for the 2022 summit,  

第二十七屆締約方會議的東道主埃及希望氣候融資成為2022年峰會議程上的首要議題。

with key ministers calling on governments to come  through on promises made at COP the year before.  

主要的部長們呼籲各國政府兌現前一年在締約方大會上作出的承諾。

Will we be moving towards some sort of financing facility?

我們是否會向某種融資機制發展？

And what might that look like? And what is the process for doing so?

這可能是什麼樣子的呢？這樣做的過程是什麼？

Right now, the big issue is that a lot of it is coming in the form of loans.

現在，最大的問題是，很多都是以貸款的形式出現的。

Here's a breakdown of how much developed  nations have paid toward their fair share  

以下是發達國家為其公平份額支付的費用明細

of the $100 billion climate finance target.

的1000億美元的氣候融資目標。

While four countries have contributed well over 100% of their fair share,

雖然有四個國家的捐款遠遠超過其公平份額的100%。

in the case of Japan, France and Germany, most of that money is in the form of loans.

在日本、法國和德國的情況下，這些錢大部分是以貸款的形式。

And it's not just countries that are lending money to address climate change. 

而且，不僅僅是國家在借錢應對氣候變化。

For example, the International Monetary Fund  announced the Resilience and Sustainability Trust

例如，國際貨幣基金組織宣佈了 "復原力和可持續性信託"。

in April 2022, which the fund says will provide long-term affordable financing

2022年4月，該基金表示將提供長期可負擔的融資。

for countries facing challenges like climate change.

為面臨氣候變化等挑戰的國家。

These are loans on the best possible terms  that the IMF has ever provided in its history.

這些是國際貨幣基金組織有史以來提供的條件最好的貸款。

Bert Van Selm is the International Monetary Fund's  mission chief for Barbados.

Bert Van Selm是國際貨幣基金組織在巴貝多的任務負責人。

The Caribbean Island is the first recipient of the new loan-based Resilience and Sustainability Trust or RST.

加勒比島國是新的基於貸款的復原力和可持續性信託（RST）的第一個接受者。

A country like Barbados faces enormous challenges  related to climate and addressing those challenges  

像巴貝多這樣的國家面臨著與氣候有關的巨大挑戰，應對這些挑戰

will require a lot of financing. So in the  past, our longest loan was for 10 years.

將需要大量的融資。所以在過去，我們最長的貸款是10年。

The new facility that we've set up is twice that, and it comes with an underlying program

我們建立的新設施是這個數字的兩倍，而且還附帶了一個基本方案

that is focused on addressing climate  challenges, mitigation, adaptation,  

著重於應對氣候挑戰、緩解、適應。

in the case of Barbados, very importantly, the switch to 100% renewable-based economy by 2030, 

就巴貝多而言，非常重要的是，到2030年轉向100%基於可再生能源的經濟。

so long-term finance at low rates, that is  catalytic and brings in other players as well.

是以，在低利率下的長期融資，這是催化作用，也帶來了其他參與者。

How would you be able to track that the money was being spent on green initiatives?   

你如何能夠跟蹤這些錢是否被用於綠色倡議？

We need to be clear that what the IMF does is  not project lending.

我們需要明確的是，國際貨幣基金組織所做的不是項目貸款。

So, we don't say you're getting this money from us and you need to spend it on electric buses

是以，我們不會說你從我們這裡得到這筆錢，你需要把它花在電動巴士上。

or anything like that but it's up to the country's authorities to decide what exactly to spend that on.

或類似的東西，但要由國家當局來決定到底把錢花在什麼地方。

It works much better if you leave the initiative with country  authorities and then support those policy plans.

如果你把主動權留給國家當局，然後支持這些政策計劃，效果會好很多。

But critics say more debt is the  last thing these countries need.

但批評者說，更多的債務是這些國家最不需要的。

Of course, a grant is always for a country going to be better than a loan.

當然，對一個國家來說，贈款總是比貸款要好。

So there are others in this spectrum that provide grants, in particular the European Union,

是以，在這個範圍內還有其他提供贈款的機構，特別是歐洲聯盟。

that's also very much appreciated, but then we're talking about much smaller amounts.

這也是非常值得讚賞的，但我們談論的是更小的數額。

So the one doesn't exclude the other, grants are great, but to address

是以，一個並不排除另一個，補助金是很好的，但要解決

the huge challenge of climate change, you're going to need loans as well.

氣候變化的巨大挑戰，你也將需要貸款。

For a country like Pakistan, whether the  conditionality is climate-tied or otherwise,

對於像巴基斯坦這樣的國家，無論條件是否與氣候有關。

it's exactly the same problem. You owe. You bring up something of a debt,

這是完全相同的問題。你欠了。你提出的東西的債務。

maybe the terms can change a bit, and you have these massive conditionalities

也許條款可以改變一下，你有這些大規模的條件。

attached to the loans that you get, right? That fundamentally hasn't changed.

附在你得到的貸款上，對嗎？這一點從根本上沒有改變。

It doesn't mean much anyway, by the way, because  they guarantee to put you into the debt trap. 

順便說一下，這並不意味著什麼，因為他們保證會把你放入債務陷阱。

So would you say the answer is then to just wipe these  debts and start paying out reparations really?  

那麼，你是否認為答案就是抹去這些債務，並開始支付賠償金？

No, I think there's a lot of conceptual work that needs to go

不，我認為有很多概念性的工作需要進行

into essentially sort of explaining what it is that is needed and why.

變成基本上是解釋需要什麼和為什麼。

Debt cancellation absolutely has to be part of the answer.

取消債務絕對必須是答案的一部分。

Non-debt-creating finance and non-condition-bound finance is also part of the answer. 

不產生債務的金融和不受條件限制的金融也是答案的一部分。

Debt cancellation is not a new concept.  

債務取消不是一個新概念。

In 1996, the G7 group of rich countries created  the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries initiative

1996年，七國集團的富國創建了重債窮國倡議

to cancel a portion of the debts of some of the most impoverished countries,

以取消一些最貧困國家的部分債務。

providing they implement IMF and World Bank economic policies.

提供他們執行國際貨幣基金組織和世界銀行的經濟政策。

By 2018, more than $100 billion of debt had been wiped out

到2018年，超過1000億美元的債務已被抹去

under the scheme and related programs.   

在該計劃和相關方案下。

Is it realistic to consider that  that debt could just be wiped away? 

考慮到這些債務可以一掃而空，這是否現實？

I don't think we're going to see all debt wiped away.

我不認為我們會看到所有債務被抹去。

If you, for example, say, look, I can't pay for this debt,  

例如，如果你說，看，我無法支付這筆債務。

it's too expensive for me, they get hit by worse  ratings, or nobody wants to lend to them in the future

對我來說太貴了，他們會受到更差的評級打擊，或者將來沒有人願意貸款給他們。

when they might need other kinds of loans so it doesn't tend to end well for the countries

當他們可能需要其他類型的貸款時，這對國家來說往往不是什麼好事。

because of the backlash that they then receive.  

因為他們隨後收到的反響。

Still, developing countries and their allies  are expected to keep pushing for climate justice  

儘管如此，開發中國家及其盟友仍將繼續推動氣候正義的實現。

through so-called “loss and damage” finance.

通過所謂的 "損失和損害 "融資。

This would mean paying up for things that have been lost for good,

這將意味著為那些已經永遠失去的東西付出代價。

whether that be lives or the extinction of a species.

無論是生命還是一個物種的滅絕。

It could also cover crop failure or the cost of rebuilding after a storm.

它也可以涵蓋作物歉收或風暴後的重建費用。

You absolutely need to have a line of  losses and damages, and restitution.

你絕對需要有一個損失和損害的界限，以及恢復原狀。

Compensation for losses and damages that  developing countries endure

對開發中國家所承受的損失和損害進行賠償

after the worst impacts of climate change has become a hugely contentious issue.

在氣候變化的最壞影響之後，已經成為一個有巨大爭議的問題。

Some developed countries believe providing funding could be construed as an admission of legal liability

一些發達國家認為，提供資金可能被理解為承認法律責任

and trigger claims on a major scale.

並引發大規模的索賠。

Developed Countries are very scared of that.  Throughout the years of the negotiating

發達國家對這一點非常害怕。 在多年的談判過程中

around these kinds of topics, they don't want to admit to legal liability.

圍繞這類話題，他們不願意承認法律責任。

If it's not going to happen, well, let's take a step back and think about

如果它不會發生，那麼，讓我們退一步思考一下

what are we trying to get through with legal liability? And let's try to get there maybe through other ways.

我們試圖通過法律責任來達到什麼目的？讓我們嘗試通過其他方式來達到目的。

And that's what people are saying when they're saying,  Okay, we'll use different terminologies, etc.

而這正是人們在說，好吧，我們將使用不同的術語，等等。