You need to move forward as much as possible.

Actually, semiconductor is an ecosystem.

There's no single company can do it alone.

Why are countries racing to build out chip manufacturing?

My next guests represent the semiconductor industry.

And of course, they say that the subsidies and attention being given to chip manufacturers is critical.

Laith Altamimi is president of the organization CIMI in Europe.

That's an industry trade group.

His colleague Terry Tsao is president for the organization for Taiwan.

That island, of course, being home to the world's most important chip manufacturer, TSMC.

Well, TSMC is now building a new plant in Germany and it has secured a promise for 10 billion euros in public money to do it.

I began by asking Laith how he responds to criticisms that that money is too much.

Germany is paving the way towards, I think, the launch of the European Chips Act, which was also along with the US Chips Act and many other chips acts across the world.

They became not only instrumental for Europe to maintain this competitive advantage, but also it became also instrumental in really introducing this global collaborative approach in order to work together.

So for Europe to reach, for the European vision to reach 20% by 2030, you need such aggressive investment.

You need to move forward as much as possible.

And I think Germany started, absolutely, but also you look at, again, even the TSMC investment topic, automotive is the key business model that combines the two.

And Germany is a powerhouse in automotive.

But also if you look at other countries, they also very quickly learned how to do that and then followed suit.

You know, the ST Global Foundries, 5 billion investment, you know, the Poland, Intel back end of line, Ireland with the Intel advanced tech.

So it's imperative for Europe to invest because of the timing that is needed in order to be relevant in the exponential growth.

But again, is it just to secure these critical components or is this something that they can truly be manufacturers of in a European capacity?

A lot of people would point to other industries that Germany excels at, automotives, you mentioned, chemicals, optics, things like that.

Some critics would say this isn't really the right place to put all of that money.

I disagree.

I think, so you see again, the TSMC investment.

So this is significant investment, you know, and then they come and they invest in Europe, in Dresden, because Germany, as well as other European countries, they have a very well established strategic ecosystem in the microelectronics in terms of like talent, materials, equipment, all of that.

So with that, the investment is in order of billions of dollars.

So it's not a small amount.

So with that, you need to do all the due diligence to make sure that you choose the right location, because as we had TSMC groundbreaking in August, mass production in 2027.

So this needs to be at the very accelerated rate to be relevant and to have return on investment.

Where do you look?

You look at where the best investment is made.

And again, if you couple the ecosystem, the incentive Germany is giving, the automotive, the industrial, all of the above, these all come together to make that investment very relevant, and that maintains Europe's competitive advantage in the global supply chain.

Terry Lake touched on.

Make some additional comment.

I think this is not just only support TSMC or the Intel itself.

Actually, it's also connected to the end market or the end product, which will be beneficial to European brand.

At the same time, like our conversation earlier, actually, semiconductor is an ecosystem.

There's no single company can do it alone.

So actually, those investments will also beneficial to all the ecosystem supply chain, which is most of the supplier probably will be European supplier.

Also, they create a job, will be good, beneficial to the Europe in general.

So it look like just two single company, but actually, it definitely will have the ripple effect, not only to the end product, but also the entire industry or the supply chain, which will be also beneficial to the entire EU.

That's my view about that.

I wanted to touch on something.

Leif mentioned the talent.

He said that the talent is here, and yet we know that Intel, TSMC are probably going to struggle to find some of the people they need.

Can you talk about that, what Taiwanese companies are seeing when they look at finding the talent they need?

Because this is a very intensive process, correct?

Sure, sure.

Yeah, first of all, that's how I think talent is very essential for the industry.

So that's how Taiwan and this company, they're also by this like a joint collaboration.

We can also train or also like share how Taiwanese company work for the semiconductor industry.

Earlier, we have been doing a forum, we heard about the TSMC in Europe.

They send a lot to the engineer to Taiwan.

So they get the first hand like a training how the TSMC work.

I think there'll be very good beginning for the entire semiconductor manufacturers just like 50 years ago, how Taiwan semiconductor begin.

We, the first batch of the engineer, we are being sent to US, we learn from RCA.

That's how the Taiwan semiconductor begin to nowaday.

So the talent exchange by this collaboration definitely will nourish the talent exchange.

And also, as I know, the Taiwan government also have the program to support the European engineer.

They can come to Taiwan to do some semiconductor training or education.

In the end, they can decide they either want to stay in Taiwan or back to Europe.

I think there will be a very good talent exchange program to come from this very good marriage.

At the same time, of course, we as an industry association, we put lots of the effort in terms of the education program.

So we also put a lot of the training program on the table from like a high school, university, or even we have the veterans program or something like that.

From industry association, we also try to contribute in terms of the talent nourish.

But last but not the least, lots of the advanced manufacturer, actually they need most of the factory.

They now become like a, not really need the people inside the fact.

So it's more like you can do the remote or lots of...

You can work remotely on making semiconductors.

Yeah, yeah.

Some process they can actually for the fab inside, there's no need for the people to like manage or operate the equipment.

So that's also the area.

We make sure we train the right size of the right talent can do the most important job.

May I add, I think absolutely.

And you had some examples today, like the student exchange program between T.U.

Dresden and the Taiwan University.

So CENI as a global industry association, it is number one priority at our CEO's level to drive the talent program worldwide.

We have been very active in creating digital e-learning platforms in all different languages.

So that this is students can learn, young engineers can learn digitally, like with these e-learning platforms.

The additional to that, there has been a lot of also like complimentary student exchange programs so that you could elevate.

I think the industry campaign is the, if you like, is really the bottleneck with the students.

So what CENI has been doing is we start with schools.

We start with what we call high tech U at school levels.

We do talent forms across universities, across, let's say for Europe, across Europe.

So that we promote the industry student levels and connect the industry with the academia.

In addition to that, we've also like triggered like a university network, which is a board, an educational board that focuses on learning, but also provide content, but also work with the academia in order to provide the industry, not only university level, but also STEM level and beyond.

And you're confident that when these, as these companies like TSMC begin to expand and move over that the talent will be there?

Is it still an open question mark right now?

I mean, across Germany, across Europe, there are concerns about labor right now.

I think now from either the Taiwan industry or Taiwan government, I think we are, of course, definitely heavily partnership with Germany, but not limited.

So the, like, for example, East Europe, like very close to Germany, they also could be the talent port to support the entire, like EU, semiconductor manufacturing or the other countries around it, like Italy or France.

So we think Italy, we think Europe is from the holistic perspective or some talent could, even from the UK, which is not in the EU.

And even, you know, this is also goes to the point that it's not only industry and academia anymore, but also governments are needed as part of this collaboration.

In terms of changing policy, things like that?

Exactly.

Policies to allow, you know, talent mobility across Europe, but also internationally.

So this is, so not one business model anymore, what you, but because of the number of, not only numbers, but also skills that are needed.

In terms of bringing those outside the EU.

Exactly.

Yeah, those talents inside.

And diversity.

So we address all of these.

In addition to new talent, I think also the spotlight we put in assuming with our member companies is to retain the talent you have.

So that it's important that, A, you maintain your business strategies, but B, use high profile, high potential, high performers in your company to be the role models to the students and to other people like that can really accelerate, you know, the talent pipeline.

Terry, I want to wrap up by asking you one thing.

This is a Taiwan, this event that we're speaking on the side of, this is really a Taiwan Expo, looking at Taiwan, Europe.

Yeah.

When we look at China right now, we know that there's a lot of advanced manufacturing that they're seeking right now.

They're putting a lot more capital into a higher level of manufacturing, including semiconductors.

What does that mean for the Taiwanese semiconductor sector?

Is that a threat in the short term, near term, long term?

How do you see that?

I think we, as a global industry association, we put more focus on the industry common challenge.

I think there's no single country we should rule out if they have their intention to develop their own ecosystem or semiconductor industry at all.

However, according to current situation, I think all the sanctions definitely slow down for the China semiconductor industry process.

Because, like I mentioned, there's no single country or the region can do everything by their own.

So definitely all the sanctions definitely make some impact for the China semiconductor industry development.

And of course, China still with a very big market and also their determination.

So we should not underestimate their potential.

So that is our view, to not exclude, but also pay much higher attention to see what's going on.

Terry Zhao, Leith Altamimi, thank you both.

Appreciate your time.

Thank you very much.