Quite a serious threat to be honest with you because the pages are smaller nimble and quite easily kind of discreeted.

The mobile really good kind of portal with regards to a battery power strength.

Simple thing is you know a solution like this.

This is like three grams of what was considered like an explosive anyway.

It's not an explosive here.

Thank God.

But it represents that particular kind of size that when put into the pager and with that particular small data board that they've actually built into there it gives you the chance to actually carry multiple messages out at once which you've actually seen.

So it's a very very good easy discreet method of actually being able to actually target somebody.

I appreciate that you deconstructed that pager for us.

For many of us it's been a long time since we've actually touched one.

So how much planning do you think went into this sophisticated coordination involving this old school device.

Today started with different theories and it seems now explosives were actually hand planted in these devices.

Well I've got a couple of theories on this to be honest with you.

Yes.

But I think that at the packaging stage I think it would be kind of really difficult to do something there with you know with a commercial company.

That's one thing I find really kind of difficult to comprehend because for each of these devices you know there's an element of risk of being found out.

I think it's more likely that what the Israelis have done or if it is the Israelis but it all starts to point towards that particular area that they've done a switch and in mass as well.

So potentially what they could have done is built these devices and then switched the package from a commercial point of view.

So they're already prepped and the actual small explosives are in there.

It takes a special small motherboard to be in there.

But at the end of the day the as we said anyway it's commercial explosives.

And as you can see from that particular image there that you're running it takes a small amount anyway to cause maximum devastation around the abdominal area which is where some of the pages are kept.

And also for some of the children that were involved at that height as well.

When the page it does go off it's unfortunate.

It's going to affect a lot of the kids that are moving around in markets and things of that where everything's a kind of a tight environment.

And let's talk about the manufacturing side of things.

Taiwan's gold Apollo says that it didn't make the pages that were used in these detonations instead by a company in Europe that had the right to use their firm's brand.

But The New York Times claims otherwise.

How key is the manufacturer in this case.

And could there be any accountability on them.

I think basically what's happened is the actual the remnants of the page that's got that label and serial numbers and so on and so forth do point towards that.

You know the company the gold Apollo.

But again look you've got to look at the very good history of being able to actually kind of infiltrate switch maneuver and and get their own particular devices or their own kids into an area.

And you know coming back to your original question that it was a long time in the planning.

This thing just doesn't happen overnight.

It's a question of building up your human intelligence.

Find out just exactly where the weakest link was.

Looking at logisticians you know where are these pages made.

What are they doing.

Where's the supply chain.

Where's the weakness in the supply chain as well.

And that's really what some of the security forces have got to actually find out to find out really fully whether this particular device goes all the way back to Apollo or whether there was a switch or whether there was something else that happened along the chain.

You know along that particular process really.