We're going to clean out the Washington swamp.

我們要清除華盛頓的沼澤。

I never knew it was this deep.

我從來不知道它有這麼深。

It's a catchphrase to describe what he claims afflicts Washington.

這是他用來描述華盛頓問題的口頭禪。

But unlike the beginning of his first term, this time, he has taken swift action.

但與第一任期之初不同的是，這一次，他迅速採取了行動。

And he knows just the guy to help.

他知道有一個人可以幫忙。

Elon Musk.

埃隆-馬斯克

Goj.

Goj.

Perhaps you've heard of it.

也許你聽說過。

The Trump administration is allowing a private citizen to kind of have the keys and to do all this while Congress is basically letting it happen and the judiciary is struggling to keep up.

特朗普政府允許一個普通公民掌握鑰匙，在國會聽之任之的同時，司法部門也在努力跟上。

We do need to delete entire agencies.

我們確實需要刪除整個機構。

To do this, Elon Musk and members of his so-called Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, have been embedding themselves across the United States government.

為此，埃隆-馬斯克和他所謂的 "政府效率部"（DOGE）的成員們一直在美國政府各部門進行嵌入式辦公。

Department of Education, Department of Energy, USAID, Department of the Treasury, Department of Defense.

教育部、能源部、美國國際開發署、財政部、國防部。

Social Security.

社會保障。

You name it, they are there.

只要你想得到的，他們都有。

Musk has kind of been approaching all this with a lot of glee.

馬斯克對這一切都充滿了喜悅。

He's joked about being the Bobs from office space.

他曾開玩笑說自己是辦公空間裡的鮑勃。

What would you say you do here?

你說你在這裡做什麼？

The idea of cutting the federal budget, I think, is something that a lot of people, left or right, can get on board with.

我認為，削減聯邦預算的想法是很多人都能接受的，不管是左派還是右派。

The people voted for major government reform.

人民投票贊成對政府進行重大改革。

But there's a lot of question about whether Elon actually knows the ins and outs of these agencies enough to make these cuts, or if he's simply going in with a chainsaw.

但有很多人質疑，埃隆是否真的瞭解這些機構的來龍去脈，足以做出這些削減，還是他只是拿著一把電鋸就進去了。

I actually just call myself a humble tech support here.

實際上，我在這裡只是自稱一個卑微的技術支持。

This feels a lot like private equity going into a new company.

這種感覺很像私募基金進入一家新公司。

You look at the books, you sell distressed assets.

查看賬目，出售不良資產。

This disruption is all part of the plan.

這種干擾都是計劃的一部分。

This is how Elon Musk runs his companies.

這就是埃隆-馬斯克經營公司的方式。

But the federal government is going to run and operate in a very different way than a rocket ship company.

但聯邦政府的運行和運作方式與火箭飛船公司截然不同。

So what are the consequences, intended or otherwise, of trying to turn the federal government into a startup?

那麼，試圖將聯邦政府變成一家初創企業，會帶來什麼後果呢？

And is that what Trump and Musk really want?

這就是特朗普和馬斯克真正想要的嗎？

It all started with a meme.

這一切都源於一個備忘錄。

The word DOGE comes from this internet meme that Elon Musk is quite fond of.

DOGE 這個詞來自埃隆-馬斯克非常喜歡的網絡流行語。

And so when he proposed this idea for a government cost-cutting agency, he created DOGE as a backronym for Department of Government Efficiency.

是以，當他提出建立一個政府成本削減機構的想法時，他創建了 DOGE，作為政府效率部的縮寫。

DOGE has effectively replaced an agency called the U.S.

兩性平等辦公室實際上取代了一個名為 "美國 "的機構。

Digital Service, set up by President Barack Obama to modernize how the government uses technology.

數字服務，由巴拉克-奧巴馬總統設立，旨在使政府使用技術的方式現代化。

Now, Elon Musk says he wants to do that and a whole lot more.

現在，埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）說，他想做這件事，而且還想做得更多。

Musk's whole theory is that we have inflation and high interest rates because the government overspent and we're in a deficit.

馬斯克的整個理論是，我們之所以有通貨膨脹和高利率，是因為政府超支，我們有赤字。

So if they can really rein in spending and drop interest rates, that will help American consumers.

是以，如果他們能真正控制支出並降低利率，這將有助於美國消費者。

If we don't do this, America will go bankrupt.

如果我們不這樣做，美國就會破產。

They're looking for examples of what they call waste, fraud and abuse.

他們正在尋找所謂的浪費、欺詐和濫用的例子。

Musk promised when he was on the campaign $2 trillion in budget cuts, at least.

馬斯克在競選時曾承諾至少削減 2 萬億美元的預算。

I think we can do at least $2 trillion.

我認為我們至少可以做到 2 萬億美元。

Yeah!

是啊

He later backtracked to say, we've got a good shot at getting $1 trillion in cuts.

後來他又反悔說，我們很有可能削減 1 萬億美元。

But even that would be quite a feat.

但即便如此，也是相當不容易的。

Here's the problem.

問題就在這裡。

While the national debt has been rising for years, interest payments on U.S. debt have now climbed to its highest level since the 1990s.

雖然國債多年來一直在增加，但美國債務的利息支出現已攀升至 20 世紀 90 年代以來的最高水準。

In the last fiscal year, the U.S.

在上一個財政年度，美國

Treasury Department spent $882 billion on net interest payments, roughly $2.4 billion a day.

財政部的淨利息支出為 8,820 億美元，大約每天 24 億美元。

So far, Doge's cuts don't hold a candle to those kinds of numbers.

到目前為止，Doge 的削減還無法與這些數字相提並論。

When you look at what he's actually cutting, it is not much.

看看他實際削減的部分，其實並不多。

Doge started to put online a list of canceled contracts, canceled leases that they say ended up somewhere in the neighborhood of $55 billion.

Doge 開始在網上公佈一份被取消的合同和租約清單，據說這些合同和租約的總金額約為 550 億美元。

But it didn't take long for people to really look at the details of what they said were cut and find duplicate cuts, typos, miscalculations.

但沒過多久，人們就真正看清了他們所說的刪減細節，發現了重複刪減、錯別字和計算錯誤。

In one line item, Doge mistakenly reported an $8 billion savings from a canceled contract, which turned out to be an $8 million, not billion dollar contract.

在一個細列項目中，Doge 錯誤地報告了一份被取消的合同節省了 80 億美元，但事實證明這只是一份 800 萬美元的合同，而不是一份 10 億美元的合同。

With Musk at the top, he has mainly young men with tech backgrounds under him.

在馬斯克的上司下，他手下主要是有技術背景的年輕人。

But there are also some longtime Musk loyalists, like Steve Davis.

但也有一些長期忠於馬斯克的人，比如史蒂夫-戴維斯（Steve Davis）。

Their approach has been to disregard norms, and in some cases, allegedly laws, about how federal agencies operate, especially regarding personnel and data.

他們的做法是無視有關聯邦機構運作方式的規範，在某些情況下甚至是所謂的法律，特別是在人事和數據方面。

We're very unhappy with you.

我們對你非常不滿。

If you are, we'll throw him out of here.

如果你是，我們就把他扔出去。

Doge came in without really a very clear understanding of who works for the federal government, where, and what they do.

Doge 來的時候並不清楚誰在為聯邦政府工作，在哪裡工作，做什麼工作。

Both Trump and Musk have cited false allegations of fraud and waste to justify mass firings across federal agencies.

特朗普和馬斯克都曾以虛假的欺詐和浪費指控為由，大規模解僱聯邦機構人員。

Some hasty moves have already led to embarrassing and potentially dangerous reversals.

一些倉促的行動已經導致了尷尬和潛在危險的逆轉。

Doge helped to fire or lay off roughly 350 people at the National Nuclear Security Administration.

Doge 幫助國家核安全局解僱或裁員約 350 人。

A lot of those people have very important jobs safeguarding the nation's nuclear weapons, and now some of them are being hired back.

這些人中有很多人從事著保護國家核武器的重要工作，現在他們中的一些人又被重新僱用了。

We will make mistakes, but we'll act quickly to correct any mistakes.

我們會犯錯，但我們會迅速採取行動糾正任何錯誤。

So far, tens of thousands of federal employees have either been fired, resigned, or taken Musk's buyout offer since Trump's inauguration, a number that's expected to keep climbing in the weeks and months ahead.

自特朗普就職以來，迄今已有數萬名聯邦僱員被解僱、辭職或接受了馬斯克的收購要約，預計這一數字在未來幾周和幾個月內還將繼續攀升。

Elon Musk has a playbook for starting and turning around companies, and that playbook involves massive layoffs and essentially just sowing chaos within the workforce.

埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）有一本創辦和扭轉公司的劇本，其中包括大規模裁員和在員工中製造混亂。

In Silicon Valley, you always hear, like, move fast and break things, and sometimes things do break.

在硅谷，你總能聽到 "快速行動，打破常規 "這樣的話，而有時事情確實會打破常規。

In his companies, Musk has often made decisions and then had to overcorrect.

在馬斯克的公司裡，他經常在做出決定後又不得不進行過度糾正。

Elon has this tendency to take what he thinks worked in one corner of his world or universe and try to replicate that other places.

埃隆有一種傾向，就是把他認為在他的世界或宇宙的某個角落行之有效的東西，試圖複製到其他地方。

He took over Twitter.

他接管了 Twitter。

He immediately wanted to run it like a pure engineering company in much the same way he maybe runs Tesla or SpaceX.

他立即想把公司辦成一家純粹的工程公司，就像他經營特斯拉或 SpaceX 一樣。

After he had already laid off about 50% of staff, he sent this email to employees with the subject line, fork in the road.

在他已經裁掉了大約 50% 的員工之後，他向員工發送了這封郵件，郵件的主題是 "岔路口"。

He basically gave employees a little more than 24 hours to decide, like, do they want to be part of this new Twitter or not?

他基本上給了員工超過 24 小時的時間來決定，他們到底要不要加入這個新 Twitter？

And about more than a thousand people ultimately said, this isn't for me, and they opted out.

大約有一千多人最終表示，這不適合我，他們選擇了退出。

Very early in the Trump administration, he sent out this email, subject line, a fork in the road, and it was basically asking people to sort of commit to this new way of doing things or get out.

在特朗普執政初期，他發出了這樣一封電子郵件，主題是 "岔路口"，基本上是要求人們承諾採用這種新的行事方式，否則就滾蛋。

The consequences for how he handled the Twitter takeover are still happening.

他如何處理 Twitter 接管事件的後果仍在發生。

He laid off thousands of employees who are still suing him.

他解僱了數千名員工，這些員工至今仍在起訴他。

He ultimately fired people that they had to try to hire back.

他最終解僱了一些人，而他們不得不試圖重新僱用這些人。

Musk's experience in the private sector is, if he lays off too many people, he can just hire a few back.

馬斯克在私營部門的經驗是，如果裁員太多，他可以再僱幾個人回來。

That might be a little bit harder to do in the federal government.

這在聯邦政府中可能比較難做到。

And there's a valid fear that the rash, quick, fast decisions he's making at the U.S. government could similarly lead to a lot of consequences down the line.

人們有理由擔心，他在美國政府做出的草率、快速、急功近利的決定同樣會導致很多後果。

Meanwhile, Congress, which has the power of the purse under the U.S.

與此同時，根據美國法律，國會擁有財政權。

Constitution, has been mostly silent.

憲法》在很大程度上保持沉默。

And that's because Republicans control both houses of Congress.

這是因為共和黨控制了國會參眾兩院。

You've seen a lot of lawsuits on behalf of federal workers filed by unions and other advocacy groups.

你們已經看到工會和其他權益團體代表聯邦工作人員提起了很多訴訟。

But Doge is moving faster than them.

但是，Doge 比他們走得更快。

Despite the judiciary's slow-moving nature, some cuts have already been challenged as illegal, unconstitutional, or a breach of contract.

儘管司法部門行動遲緩，但一些削減已被質疑為非法、違憲或違反合同。

And more lawsuits are sure to follow.

更多的訴訟肯定會接踵而至。

The government has agreed to spend money.

政府同意花錢。

It's in a contract with these groups.

這是與這些團體簽訂的合同。

It can't just take the money away.

它不能把錢拿走。

There are going to be lawsuits.

會有訴訟的。

With the Supreme Court already involved in some cases, legal observers contend that Trump's ultimate goal here is to give the Republican-appointed supermajority a chance to further expand executive power in his favor.

由於最高法院已經介入了一些案件，法律觀察家們認為，特朗普的最終目的是讓共和黨任命的超級多數有機會進一步擴大對他有利的行政權力。

In fact, Trump's current director of the Office of Management and Budget, Russell Vogt, is an author of Project 2025, a plan to expand executive power slash federal budgets and weaken regulatory oversight.

事實上，特朗普的現任管理和預算辦公室主任拉塞爾-沃格特（Russell Vogt）就是 "2025計劃 "的作者，該計劃旨在擴大行政權力，削減聯邦預算，削弱監管監督。

I'm not sure that Elon Musk has read Project 2025, but nevertheless, a lot of parts of Project 2025 are coming to fruition through Doge.

我不確定埃隆-馬斯克是否讀過《2025 計劃》，但儘管如此，《2025 計劃》的很多部分都將通過 Doge 實現。

Russ Vogt and the OMB and Project 2025 and then Doge, they're sort of running on parallel tracks, but I think they have similar missions.

拉斯-沃格特和 OMB 以及 "2025 項目"，再加上 "Doge"，它們有點像在平行軌道上運行，但我認為它們有相似的使命。

The overall goal here with the Doge team is to help address the enormous deficit.

Doge 團隊的總體目標是幫助解決巨大的赤字問題。

It's not an optional thing.

這不是一件可有可無的事情。

It is an essential thing.

這是必不可少的。

That's the reason I'm here.

這就是我來這裡的原因。

Despite Musk's purported benevolence, he and his multibillion-dollar empire stand to gain a great deal from paring down the federal government, and the potential for conflicts of interest are everywhere.

儘管馬斯克號稱仁慈，但他和他價值數十億美元的帝國將從削減聯邦政府中獲得巨大利益，潛在的利益衝突無處不在。

SpaceX is regulated by the FAA, for example, and is a huge government contractor at both the Pentagon and with NASA.

例如，SpaceX 受美國聯邦航空局監管，是五角大樓和美國國家航空航天局的大型政府承包商。

Is he really the best person to decide if, say, Boeing or Lockheed Martin, which are both SpaceX competitors, should have contracts?

他真的是決定波音或洛克希德-馬丁公司（這兩家公司都是 SpaceX 的競爭對手）是否應該獲得合同的最佳人選嗎？

He owns a car company, Tesla, that the National Highway Safety Traffic Administration regulates to make sure that these autonomous vehicles that he's trying to develop don't run over people.

他擁有一家汽車公司特斯拉，國家公路交通安全管理局對其進行監管，以確保他試圖開發的自動駕駛汽車不會撞到人。

At least five inspector generals that were looking into Elon Musk's companies were fired by the Trump-Musk administration.

至少有五位負責調查埃隆-馬斯克公司的監察長被特朗普-馬斯克政府解僱。

These inspector generals who are independent, protected by law.

這些監察長是獨立的，受法律保護。

Musk claims that his transparency allows the public to call out any of these conflicts.

馬斯克聲稱，他的透明度允許公眾指出任何這些衝突。

It's not like I think I can get away with something.

我並不覺得我能逃脫什麼懲罰。

I'll be scrutinized nonstop.

我會被不停地審查。

But the official White House response leaves it up to him.

但白宮的官方迴應卻讓他自己決定。

The president was already asked and answered this question this week, and he said if Elon Musk comes across a conflict of interest with the contracts and the funding that Doge is overseeing, then Elon will excuse himself from those contracts.

本週，總統已經被問及並回答了這個問題，他說，如果埃隆-馬斯克遇到與多吉監督的合同和資金有利益衝突的情況，那麼埃隆就會退出這些合同。

The fact that the White House is saying that he will self-police any potential conflicts is a conflict in and of itself.

白宮說他將對任何潛在衝突進行自我監督，這本身就是一種衝突。

Just last year, Elon Musk was promised $3 billion from close to 100 contracts with the federal government.

就在去年，埃隆-馬斯克獲得了聯邦政府近 100 份合同中的 30 億美元承諾。

While first it was Twitter employees and then federal civil servants, America as a whole is now facing that fork in the road.

先是 Twitter 員工，然後是聯邦公務員，現在整個美國都面臨著這樣的岔路口。

The best case scenario, Doge goes in, it makes it more efficient, and somehow it turns the civil service into the government equivalent of Tesla.

最好的情況是，"總督 "加入後，提高了工作效率，並以某種方式將公務員制度變成了相當於特斯拉的政府制度。

The worst case scenario is Twitter, where it's super great for Elon Musk, but along the way, there's a lot of damage to the original business, which is operating the military, feeding the poor, paying out your social security.

最壞的情況是 Twitter，它對埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）來說超級棒，但一路走來，對原有業務造成了很大的損害，而原有業務就是軍隊運作、為窮人提供食物、支付你的社會保障。

That all kind of falls by the wayside.

這一切都被拋到了九霄雲外。

Those two possibilities, that is a fork in the road that all of us face.

這兩種可能性，是我們每個人都要面對的岔路口。