Name: 委內瑞拉馬杜羅的罪名是什麼？ | BBC Newscast (What are the charges against Venezuela's Nicolás Maduro? | BBC Newscast)
Uploaded: 2026-01-06T17:14:53.000Z
Duration: 32 min 12 s

哈囉，我是 Adam 在新聞播報室。

Hello, It's Katrina in the Washington newscast studio.

哈囉，我是 Katrina 在華盛頓新聞播報室。

And it's Lise Doucet also in the studio with Adam.

Lise Doucet 也和 Adam 一起在攝影棚。

And joining us here is Vanessa Buschluter, who is the BBC Online Latin America editor.

還有加入我們的是 Vanessa Buschluter，她是 BBC Online 拉丁美洲編輯。

Also, you've brought a little prop with you, haven't you?

另外，妳還帶來了一個小道具，對吧？

Although it's not a prop, it's actually a real document.

雖然不是道具，但這其實是一份真的文件。

Just explain what this little blue book on the table is.

請解釋一下桌上這本藍色小書是什麼。

So this is a miniature Venezuelan constitution and it's got all the articles of the Constitution in it.

這是一本縮小版的委內瑞拉憲法，裡麵包含了憲法的所有條款。

And members of the Maduro government like to hold it up when they invoke the Constitution, which they do quite often.

而且馬杜羅政府的成員，很喜歡在引用憲法時拿出這本書，他們也很常這麼做。

Most recently, Delsey Rodriguez, who was vice president under Nicolas Maduro, held it up and quoted articles 234 and 235 about the absence of the president to justify that she would now become the acting president in the absence of Nicolas Maduro after his seizure by the U.S.

最近，前副總統 Delsey Rodriguez 在 Nicolas Maduro 總統底下時，就拿出了這本書，並引用了關於總統缺席的第 234 和 235 條款，來證明在 Nicolas Maduro 被美國扣留後，她將成為代理總統。

okay, we'll dig into the details of that a bit later on.

好的，我們晚點再深入探討細節。

But Lis, you're very good at summing up big international moments.

但 Lis，妳很擅長總結重大的國際時刻。

Is there a way to sum up just the drama, the significance of what's happened over the last couple of days?

有沒有辦法總結一下，過去幾天發生的事情，那種戲劇性、那種重要性？

it is a dangerous moment, to use the phrase used by the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres.

而且，正如聯合國祕書長 Antonio Guterres 所說，這是一個危險的時刻。

It is a dangerous precedent and it has a name.

這是一個危險的先例，而且它有一個名字。

Donald Trump used it himself in his first news conference, hours after it was clear that Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores had been extracted, kidnapped, as critics would say, from Venezuela.

Donald Trump 在他的第一次記者會上，也就是在 Nicolas Maduro 和他的妻子 Celia Flores 被認為是被從委內瑞拉「提取」或「綁架」後幾個小時，他自己也說了。

In other words, a Donald Trump version of the early 19th century Monroe Doctrine, which means that the United States has freedom of action in its sphere of influence in the Western Hemisphere.

換句話說，這是 19 世紀初的門羅主義的川普版本，意味著美國在西半球的勢力範圍內擁有自由行動權。

In other words, we will decide what's in our national security interests and take do whatever we do to protect it.

換句話說，我們將決定什麼符合我們的國家安全利益，並採取一切行動來保護它。

And that includes, of course, the resources of Venezuela, including the oil.

當然，這也包括了委內瑞拉的資源，包括石油。

This is a step in a different kind of, well, making up the rules as you go along.

這是在邊走邊制定規則的過程中，邁出了不同的一步。

And also, Katrina, I've been struggling to get my false teeth around this.

而且，Katrina，我一直在努力讓我的假牙適應這個。

Another word for that is the Trump Corollary.

另一個說法是川普的補充條款。

Corollary, yeah, that's its full title, the Trump Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine, or as Lise was explaining and the president calls it himself, the Donroe Doctrine.

補充條款，是的，這是它的全名，門羅主義的川普補充條款，或者正如 Lise 所解釋的，總統自己稱之為 Dunro Doctrine。

But it was the explanation, actually, that the U.S.

但實際上，這是美國駐聯合國大使 Mike Waltz 今天早上在聯合國安理會緊急會議上所做的解釋。

ambassador to the UN Mike Waltz, used this morning in that emergency meeting of the UN Security Council.

美國駐聯合國大使 Mike Waltz 今天早上在聯合國安理會緊急會議上所做的解釋。

Exactly as Liz has outlined there saying this, this is where we live, this is our hemisphere.

就像 Liz 剛才說的，這是我們生活的地方，這是我們的半球。

We will essentially do what we need to do here to protect ourselves.

我們基本上會做我們需要做的事情來保護自己。

We should point out that we should have known it was coming because not enough people paid attention.

我們應該指出，我們早就該知道這會發生，因為沒有足夠的人關注。

It's very dangerous not to pay enough attention.

In the new national security policy which was introduced at the end of last year, the Monroe Doctrine was explicitly invoked, along with the explanation that American dominance in the Western hemisphere will not be challenged.

在去年底推出的新國家安全政策中，明確引用了門羅主義，並解釋說美洲半球的美國主導地位不會受到挑戰。

And here we are, right from the get go in 2026, the new policy is being implemented.

而我們現在就處於 2026 年的開端，新政策正在實施。

And also, Vanessa, last time we spoke was an episode of newscast in November just after the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to the Venezuelan opposition leader.

還有，Vanessa，我們上次講話是在 11 月的 newscast 節目中，就在委內瑞拉反對派領袖獲得諾貝爾和平獎之後。

And actually at the end of that conversation I asked you, oh, what are all these American warships doing off the coast of Venezuela?

其實在那次談話結束時，我問你，哦，這些美國軍艦在委內瑞拉海岸外做什麼？

And I must admit that I thought it was a pressure move.

我必須承認，我認為那是一個施壓的手段。

It was trying to get Maduro to step down, but of his own accord.

And it might have been that at the time, to be fair.

說實話，當時情況可能確實如此。

But when that didn't work, clearly people in Washington put their heads together and thought, well, how can we increase the pressure?

但顯然，當那樣做沒用時，華盛頓的人們聚在一起思考，我們該如何增加壓力呢？

And when that still didn't work, because I think the next step was the naval blockade and the seizure of oil tankers.

而當那樣做仍然沒用時，因為我認為下一步就是海軍封鎖和扣押油輪。

When that still didn't dislodge Maduro from power, they just went for him and Katrina.

當那樣做仍然無法讓馬杜羅下臺時，他們就直接對他下手了，Katrina。

Have you gleaned any more about this daring raid over the weekend?

你有從週末這次大膽的突襲中得到更多消息嗎？

For example, we woke up to the news in the UK on Monday morning that many of the people who died in Venezuela when this raid was happening were actually Cuban security officials who were protecting Maduro.

例如，我們週一早上在英國醒來時，看到新聞說，在委內瑞拉這次突襲發生時喪生的許多人，實際上是保護馬杜羅的古巴安全官員。

About half of those who were killed actually were Cubans.

大約一半的死者實際上是古巴人。

And the President referring to that last night as well, they were guarding Maduro.

總統昨晚也提到了這一點，他們在保護馬杜羅。

And you know, one, one of the nations that Marco Rubio hinted at, well, explicitly said really in that first press conference that the US Was looking at next was Cuba.

而且你知道，馬可魯比歐暗示的國家之一，其實在第一次記者會上明確表示，美國接下來要關注的是古巴。

President Trump asked about that last night and said he didn't think US Action in Cuba was necessary.

川普總統昨晚被問到此事時表示，他不認為美國在古巴有任何行動是必要的。

That it would fall by itself, was what he said.

Now that that link with Venezuela is broken insofar as President Trump is concerned and the US Is concerned, obviously that is not what we are hearing from the Venezuelans themselves.

現在，就川普總統和美國而言，與委內瑞拉的聯繫已經斷開，顯然這不是我們從委內瑞拉人那裡聽到的。

That national assembly meeting this morning with everyone being sworn into office and a very sort of defiant tone being struck there.

國家議會今天早上舉行了會議，所有人都宣誓就職，並且採取了一種非常挑釁的語氣。

And in terms of what's been happening in the last few hours, we're recording this episode at about 20 past 6 on Monday evening.

關於過去幾個小時發生的事情，我們正在週一晚上六點二十分錄製這一集。

Lys all day we've been glued to these amazing pictures.

Lys，一整天我們都緊盯著這些令人驚嘆的畫面。

And I don't want to lapse into the whole.

It's like a movie cliche, but there was something very cinematic about the pictures.

這就像電影裡的陳腔濫調，但那些畫面確實很有電影感。

This big guy, he's tall, being led out of one helicopter into another, like the New York skyline in the distance.

這個高大的男人，他很高，被從一架直升機帶到另一架，背景是遠方的紐約天際線。

Him being flown across the Hudson down to Manhattan from the detention center he was in.

他被從拘留中心飛越哈德遜河，飛往曼哈頓。

這一切看起來都非常、非常視覺化。

It's not a cliche in the world that we live in.

在我們生活的這個世界裡，這不是陳腔濫調。

Adam, President Trump uses that expression without any sense of shame.

Adam，川普總統毫不羞恥地使用這個說法。

Or he commented that when he was watching on a live feed the extradition, the rendition of Nicolas Maduro, he said it was like watching it on the television.

或者他評論說，當他在直播中看到 Nicolas Maduro 被引渡、被遣返時，他說就像在電視上看一樣。

And all of this has been a made for television moment.

而這一切都像是一場為電視而生的時刻。

Go back to those hours where everyone was wondering, where is Nicolas Maduro?

回想那幾個小時，每個人都在猜測，Nicolas Maduro 在哪裡？

When is he going to arrive in the United States?

And what do we see on American television?

而我們在美國電視上看到什麼？

The shots of the helicopters flying across the New York skyline, right past the iconic landmark of the Statue of Liberty, Nicholas Maduro has arrived.

直升機飛越紐約天際線的畫面，就在自由女神像這個標誌性地標旁，尼可拉斯·馬杜羅抵達了。

And then the first walk of shame, where the great leader of great.

然後是第一次羞辱性的遊街，偉大領袖。

The powerful leader of Nicolas Maduro, President Maduro, is handcuffed in some kind of American garb, flanked.

尼可拉斯·馬杜羅，馬杜羅總統，這位強大的領導人，戴著手銬，穿著某種美國服飾，身旁。

My guards doing what's called the perpetrator's walk, humiliated.

我的守衛們做著所謂的罪犯遊街，被羞辱。

All of these images are to send a strong message.

所有這些畫面都是為了傳達強烈的訊息。

You just have to send a very forceful signal.

你只需要發出一個非常強烈的信號。

And Katrina, in terms of what was happening in court in New York this morning, I mean, those proceedings were wrapping up just as we were sitting down to start recording this episode.

Katrina，關於今天早上紐約法院發生的事，我是說，那些程序在我們坐下來開始錄製這一集時正好結束。

And I know it was unusual because, well, unusual in the sense we're used to seeing American trials on tv, but

我知道這很不尋常，因為，嗯，不尋常的感覺是我們習慣在電視上看美國的審判，但是

this part of the legal process happens away from the cameras.

法律程序的這部分是在鏡頭外進行的。

We don't usually have people in the courts for this part.

我們通常不會有人在法庭上參與這部分。

I mean, we have journalists in there who relay the information to colleagues outside so we can get it as quickly as possible.

我的意思是，我們有記者在裡面，他們會將資訊傳達給外面的同事，這樣我們就能盡快得知。

Both Nicolas Maduro and the first lady, Celia Flores, appearing there.

Nicolas Maduro 和第一夫人 Celia Flores 都出現在那裡。

他們穿著像是囚服的衣服抵達。

We're told their feet were shackled, but their hands were not shackled.

據說他們被鎖住了腳，但手沒有被鎖住。

They spoke just briefly, actually, to confirm their names and that not guilty plea.

事實上，他們只簡短地確認了自己的名字和不認罪的請求。

The first lady saying she was the first lady of Venezuela and she was not guilty.

第一夫人說她是委內瑞拉的第一夫人，她沒有罪。

Nicolas Maduro, for his part, when he gave his not guilty plea, said, I am innocent, I am not guilty, I am a decent man, I am not guilty, I am innocent of anything mentioned here.

至於 Nicolas Maduro，在表示不認罪時，他說：我是無辜的，我沒有罪，我是一個正直的人，我沒有罪，我對這裡提到的任何事都沒有罪。

Meaning of course, the arraignment and those charges that they're facing.

這當然是指提審和他們面臨的那些指控。

They waived their right to have the arraignment read out in detail, which would have taken a little bit longer.

他們放棄了要求詳細宣讀提審內容的權利，那樣會花費更長的時間。

But all in proceedings were wrapped up in less than an hour.

但整個程序不到一個小時就結束了。

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委內瑞拉馬杜羅的罪名是什麼？ | BBC Newscast (What are the charges against Venezuela's Nicolás Maduro? | BBC Newscast)

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