joining us now is Daniel Goleman

he's the many times bestselling author love books including emotional

intelligence

and the author of the brand new book focus

the hidden driver excellence Daniel

great to have you on the program how are you yeah I'm happy to be here I hope I

am here

you are here we are here they pay I have no idea I'll

what that glitch was about but I guess that's a factor a modern life which is

a significant factor in your new book focus

I in this book you're talking about

a basically as more and more

research emerges on the importance I love

the qualities of focus in our lives in our

personal lives in our professional lives and obviously we're at a time where

as our understanding of the significance the focus is sort of

emerging in heightening were bombarded

I by the kinda fax a modern life which can be very distracting so I'm just

wondering

if you could explain that kinda dichotomy and

and also the yet exactly the reason I decided to write a book now because I

think attention is a mental capacity under siege

a never before we had so many distractions and distractors built into

to where we work for example I i

I'm right where I work on a computer and if I want to research something it's

several seductively easy to go to the well have been coated with called Google

Scholar I can see any academic article

but to get there I have to go through a web page are presents me with

every news story the day and I'm a news junkie and I'm a journalist so

you know before I know what I'm lost in what's happening in washington or what's

happening in turkey or syria or

you know it goes on and on and a

that's the story of our lives now we're it gets it

the technology is getting in the way of our ability to do what we want when we

want

and to connect with people you know you go to a restaurant is a couple with

dinner in the both looking at their phones do it a different reality that's

that's why I was so important

right about attention its pariah it is and how to use them well

what are the varieties attention and focus

well them you know

as I got into the scientific literature on a

attention in our new understanding because of our billy the image to brain

wall

people why using different kind of attention

which shows that they have different circuit I realize that there's a lot of

varieties others for example

orienting response there's a a new

6 second web

site is called flying and is a crime normally popular but significant fair

sure and what those little a

segments on finer doing is connected is triggering the orienting response which

wanted to look at whatever the new and novel

but the warning response works against are concentrated focus

which is where we get work done you know our

where we think our best we remember things are best we can neck

things well we plan with make good decisions with we

learn new material it takes staying focused

and staying focused in turn is under siege by

distractions and and wondering of it mind wandering who needs

you know I'm who needs an app for your attack

our minds are wired to wander off anyway about fifty percent of the time reminder

elsewhere

and it turns out that mind wandering is useful if you try to come up with some

creative solution

that's the time we're gonna get new inside but one who try to get our work

done it's not so useful so I I just felt it was

helpful to understand the different kind of attention

how to use them when to use them so it's really interesting on again it's that a

little bit more so they're these two types

attention your highlighting their and one is and I think when we hear the word

focus that's usually where we go we think I love

I'm just gonna shut everything else out may get done what's right in front to me

I'm gonna you know finish this article I'm gonna

you know take this run-up to have this conversation and/or

you know or do this monotonous work whatever the case may be and that's one

thing and that's clearly under siege for the reasons you outlined

and then on the other hand there's this other party the tension that you're

talking about where

our minds need to wander and be flexible on kinda grays and that's where

creativity emerges from

and it strikes me that even though technologies are so distracting

in some ways technologies are also distracting us from that kinda

open awareness to its practices general distracted the compelling offer to pay

attention to what they wanted to hear

one knowing you know and read

tho I think we need to be a make more effort these days

to strengthen our dental flexibility and capacity than there are ways to do it

I'm now in Africa to teaching kids basically

a lead fundamental GM you know it's me

if you go to the German you lift weights every time you will have to wait and

every repetition strength that muscle a bit more

the same is true with the muscle love attention if you can I've been in the

second-grade classroom in Spanish Harlem really down and out

party Manhattan the kids their live in the projects next door

but the class is very calm unclear the reason is that every day they do this

attention to drink near where

but the second-graders they have a little stuffed animal we find a place to

lie down put it on there Tommy

and has a tummy rises the count 1-2 three on the

in breast and as falls 123 on the upper

it away strengthening the muscle for the 10th time in a record that is Sam

knobs are going to I can all you had a breakout year

absolutely but I think the tickets got to the point where we need to help or

two to get better at it

yes so thats so that's an interesting because it does seem like what

your book is highlighting obviously that there's this kind of the explosion

interest in things like mindfulness meditation

yoga a on all these different ways that people are kinda trying to figure out

how do I regain some kind of composure and control

over the kind of madness a modern life so I guess that makes sense

yeah exactly in mindfulness and all these methods like yoga

me help the body physiologically so you're actually better able to come home

unclear which is the optimal state for anything

and you know I'm a big advocate a

making these this kind skill training available to everybody now

and the end that's passing you would say that there's like a real power this is

the kind of cognitive emotional parallel

physical fitness and that's a good way to think that

I'm sorry I didn't catch that closure I that analogy you were saying using a

kind of mental training or mental gymnastics

it makes me think of two things that one at that in some ways we can start

thinking of these things

I as as really we all kind of understand the need for physical fitness so maybe

we need to kind of have an understanding unlike attention and focus fitness

your well I don't think it's time for me to look at this and

you know they're other kinds of attention that we need today I

summer them come under the framework up emotional intelligence wouldn't have

written about

years one is self-awareness being able to tune in to what's going on inside as

to

sawyer responsible feelings in get in touch with our

got sensible you know what's the best thing I can do now is what I'm about to

do in keeping with my sensible

purposes meaning and ethics in you know it's a self-awareness is

coming over ethical writer

in our allies and lord knows we need that it also

turns out to be key to keeping ourselves

home in distress for being able to recover quickly

from getting upset which is a definition resilience

then there's another kind which i think is also wonder assortment

embassy being able to text into the people in

sense how they feel with the help they see the world but they may need from us

you know just

all fashion concern is based on first

missing people then empathizing seeing what's going on in their world

and then if there's something that we can do to help them

being predisposed absolutely in and I think that that's actually been a real

the move your work for a long time is kinda taking qualities that maybe you

know people might the jaw really dismissive is being you know quote soft

qualities

and actually sing know these are actually vitally important and that

kinda brings us to

a recent column you wrote for the New York Times New York Times opinion eight

er

called rich people just care last pretty provocatively titled

and you started off by saying you you quote these lines that we use in social

interactions the kind described

arrogance are lacking empathy say turning a blind eye

giving someone the cold shoulder looking down on people

seen right through them and then you basically saying that these

metaphors have kind of condescending dismisses behavior

they're actually being shown in certain research settings to be very real

Anna driver in this case I more so perhaps in the technology factor

is people who perceive that they have the kind of

upper hand in social power

with the other person they're interacting with your vid

the research comes outta here is a California at Berkeley s pretty

disturbing what it shows is that

in face-to-face interactions people who

feel they have more social power whether it's money

status whatever it may be have to be paid less attention to the other person

then that person is paying them and embassy is based on paying attention

so what this suggests to me he is the kind of them perhaps

to know you know there's no there's a West understanding the other person's

reality other experience

and that means there's no room for compassionate action because you need at

Embassy in order to go the next step

and you know I see this I think we've all experienced it

I in in one part of our lives or another I think

number this is going on in washington to tell you the truth

yeah I mean would you say because because I think what's interesting

that's going on in Washington right now im kinda our modern politics

I dan is I think that E you know

I think there's a radically strong disagreements and i certainly in this

show is pretty kinda strong views about

the right policies to approach in the right kinda I

you know ways to tackle big issues but I think what

is what seems at least the stink to me and I am

a you know a younger guy I guess but it it seems like this kinda formalization

in washington and certain strains the politics in saying

on you know really greed is good

or we don't care about or poor people should be punished or

we should cut food stamps really you know just in this kind of punitive

I and nasty way it seems more the kind where front

yep it is called blaming the victim in psychology circles and

it can only have been is you just don't understand or

here about the poor or the

you know the disadvantaged and

if you don't care and if you're elected because you don't care

think that that opens the way to a very pro first

trend politics yanaev it'll certainly fastening to support the research that

you cited was

the they were getting I i think was a believes a researcher at UC berkeley in

a

researcher at a urbana-champaign champagne and I Illinois

that they wanted the reasons they were saying that I

rich people might have less empath empathy in a two-minute others in poor

people have more

is because a lot of the kinda factors have day-to-day life can be sorted

outsourced with money you don't need to ever asked if you know

if you're you're living on the edge

a you need to have a good connection with your neighbors the one who's gonna

look at you kid

when they come home from school until you get home from work

in other words or what the berkeley group

fares is the its it may be because poor people

need other people or that the pay more attention and care more

whatever the reason the fact is they do