when I was between seven and 10 years old.

七到十歲的時候

And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew

我意識到,在我認識的成人中,幾乎沒有人

were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them --

能夠承受戰爭給他們帶來的悲劇

how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented,

幾乎沒有人,能夠重建一個正常、滿意

satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security

滿足的快樂生活,在他們的工作、家、安全感

was destroyed by the war.

被戰爭摧毀過後

So I became interested in understanding

於是我開始感興趣,在理解

what contributed to a life that was worth living.

到底是什麽,會使人們感到他們的人生沒有白過

And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy

小時候,青少年時,我試圖透過研讀哲學

and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways

參與藝術、宗教以及許多其他方式

that I could see as a possible answer to that question.

來尋求這個問題的可能答案

And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.

最後,我在一個偶然的機會接觸了心理學

I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money

其實,當時我在瑞士的一個滑雪勝地,沒有半毛錢

to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and

去好好享受,因為雪已經融化了,而且那邊

I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the --

我沒錢去看電影,但我發現

I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation

我在報紙上讀到,有一個演講

by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich,

不知道誰辦的,在我看過的地方,蘇黎世的中心

and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk.

與飛碟有關,是他要講的主題

And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies,

於是我想想,嗯,既然我不能去看電影

at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers.

至少我可以去聽免費的飛碟演講

And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting.

那天晚上的演講者非常有趣

Instead of talking about little green men,

其實,他講的不是關於小綠人

he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans

他談到了歐洲人的心靈

had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting

是如何被二戰摧殘,現在他們投射

flying saucers into the sky.

飛碟到天空中,有點像是

He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion

他談到古印度教的曼陀羅

were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain

是如何被投射到天空,做為一種試著

some sense of order after the chaos of war.

恢復秩序的感覺,在混亂的戰爭後

And this seemed very interesting to me.

這讓我感到很有興趣

And I started reading his books after that lecture.

於是,在這演講之後,我開始讀他的書

And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.

那個人是Carl Jung,他的名字和成就,我一無所知

Then I came to this country to study psychology

然後我來到這個國家,開始研究心理學

and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness.

我開始嘗試理解,那些幸福的根源

This is a typical result that many people have presented,

這是一個典型的研究結果,很多人都展示過的

and there are many variations on it.

有許多不同的變化

But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people

但是,舉這張來說,顯示了有30%

surveyed in the United States since 1956

參與調查的美國人,自1956起

say that their life is very happy.

認為他們的生活非常幸福

And that hasn't changed at all.

這個數據一點也沒改變

Whereas the personal income,

然而,個人收入

on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation,

在經過了通貨膨脹的調整之後

has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period.

成長到原來的兩倍多,快到三倍,在這段期間內

But you find essentially the same results,

但你會發現基本上相同的結果

namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less

那就是,在收入水準差不到達到

to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level --

比起最低的貧窮階層多幾千塊後

increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are.

物質的增加,似乎並不能影響人們感到幸福的程度

In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources,

然後,事實上你可以發現,缺乏基本的資源

material resources, contributes to unhappiness,

物質,會造成不幸福

but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.

但增加物質並不能增加幸福

So my research has been focused more on --

所以我的研究更加專注於

after finding out these things that actually corresponded

在發現這些事情,實際上與

to my own experience, I tried to understand:

我自己的經驗相符後,我現在試圖理解

where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience --

在日常生活中,我們的一般經驗裡

do we feel really happy?

如何能讓我們感到真正的快樂

And to start

而這個研究的開始在

those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people --

約40年前,我開始研究那些有創造力的人們

first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand

先是藝術家和科學家等等,我試圖理解

what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life

是什麼讓他們覺得值得花生命去做一些事

doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune,

不期待從這些事中得到名聲或財富

but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.

但這會使他們感到生命是有意義且值得的

This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s.

這是美國70年代樂壇的一位頂級的作曲家

And the interview was 40 pages long.

整個面談有40頁長

But this little excerpt is a very good summary

但這段小小的摘錄是

of what he was saying during the interview.

是整個面談很好的總結

And it describes how he feels when composing is going well.

裡面描述了他在作曲順利時的感覺

And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.

他把它描述成一種ecstatic(入神)的狀態

Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant

現在ecstasy在希臘文中代表

simply to stand to the side of something.

就只是站在某個東西旁邊

And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state

然後它的含義演變成描述一種精神狀態

where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines.

一種你感覺不是在做日常活動的精神狀態

So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality.

所以,ecstasy這個詞,是指進入了另一種現實

And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about

有趣的是,若你想想那些我們常提到

the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement --

曾經達到巔峰的人類文明時

whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization,

無論是中國,希臘,印度等文明

or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them

或馬雅,埃及,我們所知道的

is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life.

其實是他們所入神的事物,而不是他們的日常生活

We know the temples they built, where people could come

我們知道他們建的神殿,他們可以在這些地方

to experience a different reality.

體驗另一種現實

We know about the circuses,

我們知道像競技場

the arenas, the theaters.

圓形舞台,劇場

These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went

這些是那些文明的遺產,人們去這些地方

to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.

體驗生命,用一種更集中,更有秩序的方式

Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this,

現在,這個人不需要去這樣的地方

which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built

這些地方,競技場,

like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also.

像古希臘露天劇場,也就是讓人們入神的地方

We are participating in a reality that is different

我們在另一種現實中進行活動

from that of the everyday life that we're used to.

這個現實與我們熟悉的日常生活不同

But this man doesn't need to go there.

但是這個人不需要去那裡

He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks,

他只需要一張紙,可以在上面寫些小符號

and as he does that, he can imagine sounds

他這樣做時,他可以想像出音樂

that had not existed before in that particular combination.

以從未有過的方式,譜出獨特的組合

So once he gets to that point of beginning to create,

所以,一旦他進入開始創作的狀態

like Jennifer did in her improvisation,

就像Jennifer進行她的即興創作一樣

a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy --

一個新的現實出現了,這就是入神的時刻

he enters that different reality.

他進入了另一種現實

Now he says also that this is so intense an experience

他也說這種體驗如此強烈

that it feels almost as if he didn't exist.

以至於他幾乎感覺不到自己的存在

And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration.

這聽起來有點太誇張浪漫

But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing

但實際上,我們神經系統處理訊息的能力

more than about 110 bits of information per second.

是無法超過每秒110位元的訊息

And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying,

若想聽到且理解我所說的話

you need to process about 60 bits per second.

你們需要每秒處理大約60位元的訊息

That's why you can't hear more than two people.

這就是爲什麽你不能同時聽超過兩個人講話

You can't understand more than two people talking to you.

你無法瞭解兩個以上的人同時跟你講話

Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process

當你真正的、完全地投入到

of creating something new, as this man is,

創作新事物的過程中,像這個人一樣

he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor

他就沒有足夠的注意力來注意

how his body feels, or his problems at home.

自己身體的感覺,或他家裡的問題

He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired.

他甚至感覺不到飢餓或疲勞

His body disappears,

他的身體消失了

his identity disappears from his consciousness,

他的身份從意識裡消失了

because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do,

因為他沒有足夠的注意力,像我們任何人都沒有

to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration,

把一件需要非常專注的事真正做好

and at the same time to feel that he exists.

同時又感覺到自己的存在

So existence is temporarily suspended.

所以存在感暫時消失了

And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself.

他說他的手似乎在自己動作

Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel

嗯,我可以花兩個周看自己的手,而我不會有

any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)

任何驚訝或神奇的感覺,因為我不會作曲

So what it's telling you here

這裡想告訴你們的是

is that obviously this automatic,

在採訪的其他部份也有,就是,顯然他所描述的

spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone

這種自動運轉的過程只會發生在

who is very well trained and who has developed technique.

那些接受過良好訓練且有成熟技巧的人身上

And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity

在關於創造性的研究中,一條顯而易見的是

that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years

你不可能創造任何新東西,在投入少於10年

of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field.

的技術知識,在某一特定領域裡

Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long

無論它是數學還是音樂,都得花那麼長

to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better

的時間才能做出一些改變,這些改變

than what was there before.

在某種程度上比之前的狀況要好

Now, when that happens,

那麼,當這種情況發生時

he says the music just flows out.

他說音樂就那麼自己流出來了

And because all of these people I started interviewing --

由於所有這些我採訪過的人們

this was an interview which is over 30 years old --

剛才這個採訪是超過30年前進行

so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow

他們當中許多人把這個體驗描述成一種自發的流動

that I called this type of experience the "flow experience."

所以我稱之為「心流」體驗

And it happens in different realms.

在不同的領域都會發生

For instance, a poet describes it in this form.

舉例來說,一個詩人是這麼描述它的

This is by a student of mine who interviewed

這是由我的一個學生做的

some of the leading writers and poets in the United States.

他採訪了美國一些最優秀的作家和詩人

And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling

他們敘述了一種相同,不費力,自發的感覺

that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state.

發生在當你進入這種入神的狀態

This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky --

這個詩人描述它就像,打開一扇在天空飄的門

a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave

這跟Albert Einstein的描述很相似

as to how he imagined the forces of relativity,

在他想像相對論中的力時

when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked.

他努力試著理解相對論的運作

But it happens in other activities.

在其他活動中也會發生這種情況

For instance, this is another student of mine,

舉例來說,這是我的另一個學生

Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work

來自澳洲的Susan Jackson

with some of the leading athletes in the world.

她訪問了一些世界頂尖的運動員

And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater,

而這是一位奧運溜冰選手描述

the same essential description of the phenomenology

本質上相同的現象

of the inner state of the person.

在每個人心中的狀態

You don't think; it goes automatically,

你不認為這狀態會自動發生

if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.

當你投入音樂中,等等時候

It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote,

我在我最近寫的書中談過這個現象

called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs

叫《Good Business》在書中我採訪了一些CEO

who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful

他們被同業們選為既成功

and very ethical, very socially responsible.

又有道德感,社會責任感的典範

You see that these people define success

你發現這些人將成功定義為

as something that helps others and at the same time

在可以幫助到別人的同時

makes you feel happy as you are working at it.

又能給你帶來快樂,在你工作的時候

And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say,

而且如同這些成功且有責任感的CEO所說

you can't have just one of these things be successful

只有其中一項是不能算成功的

if you want a meaningful and successful job.

如果你想要一份有意義且成功的工作的話

Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed.

Anita Roddick是另一位我們採訪過的執行長

She is the founder of Body Shop,

她是Body Shop的創辦人,化妝品

the natural cosmetics king.

有點像天然化妝品之王

It's kind of a passion that comes

這是一種熱情,來自於

from doing the best and having flow while you're working.

在工作中做到最好並且有著心流

This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka,

這段有趣的摘錄來自Masaru Ibuka

who was at that time starting out Sony without any money,

當時他的Sony剛起步,沒什麽錢

without a product -- they didn't have a product,

沒有產品,連一項產品也沒有

they didn't have anything, but they had an idea.

他們什麽也沒有,但他們有一個想法

And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers

他的想法是建立一個工作環境,讓工程師

can feel the joy of technological innovation,

可以感覺到技術創新的喜悅

be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content.

意識到對社會的責任並且隨心所欲地去做

I couldn't improve on this as a good example

我無法提出比這個更好的例子了

of how flow enters the workplace.

在關於心流是如何進入職場領域

Now, when we do studies --

在我們做研究時

we have, with other colleagues around the world,

我們與世界各地的同事一起，

done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks,

對超過8000人進行了訪談,從多明尼加的和尚

to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds --

盲人尼姑,喜馬拉雅登山家,到Navajo的牧羊人

who enjoy their work.

這些人都非常享受他們的工作

And regardless of the culture,

不管是什麽文化背景

regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions

教育程度或其他,這裡有這七個條件

that seem to be there when a person is in flow.

似乎都會出現在一個人進入心流的時候

There's this focus that, once it becomes intense,

先是注意力變得集中

leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity:

導向一種入神的感覺,一種清晰的感覺

you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other;

你精確的知道你每一刻想要做什麽

you get immediate feedback.

你得到即時的回饋

You know that what you need to do

你知道你所要做的事情

is possible to do, even though difficult,

是有可能做到的,儘管是有難度的

and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself,

還有時間感消失,你忘了自己

you feel part of something larger.

你感覺自己融入某種更大的東西

And once the conditions are present,

一旦這些條件都出現時

what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.

你正在做的事,本身就成為值得做的理由

In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme.

在研究中,我們將日常生活以這個簡單的圖表示

And we can measure this very precisely, actually,

事實上,我們可以很精確的測量它

because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day,

因為我們發給人們的電子呼叫器,每天響10次

and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel,

當它們響起,你就說出你在做什麼,你感覺如何

where you are, what you're thinking about.

你在哪裡,你在想什麽

And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge

我們所要測量的兩個指標,是當時挑戰的大小

people experience at that moment and the amount of skill

他們正在經歷的,以及對技巧高低

that they feel they have at that moment.

的自我認知,在那個當下

So for each person we can establish an average,

所以對每個人,我們可以建立一個平均值

which is the center of the diagram.

就在這個分析圖中間

That would be your mean level of challenge and skill,

那就是你的挑戰與技巧的中間值

which will be different from that of anybody else.

這個每個人都不同

But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.

每個人會有一個設定點,在這圖裡面

If we know what that set point is,

如果我們知道這個點在哪裡

we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow,

我們就可以比較精確的預測出你何時會進入心流

and it will be when your challenges are higher than average

也就是在當你面臨的挑戰超過平均值

and skills are higher than average.

而且擁有的技巧程度也超過平均值時

And you may be doing things very differently from other people,

你做的事可能與其他人非常不一樣

but for everyone that flow channel, that area there,

但對每個人來說,心流通道,這個區域這裡

will be when you are doing what you really like to do --

會出現在你做你真正喜歡的事情上

play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work,

也許是彈鋼琴,跟最好的朋友在一起,也可能是工作

if work is what provides flow for you.

如果工作能為帶來你心流的話