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(tape recorder clicks)

(beeping)

- [Mike Wallace] Who are you, Ayn Rand?

You have an accent which is...

- [Rand] Russian.

- [Wallace] Russian. You were born in Russia?

- [Rand] Yes.

- [Wallace] Came here?

- [Rand] Oh, about 30 years ago.

- [Wallace] And whence did this philosophy

of yours come?

- [Rand] Out of my own mind.

With the sole acknowledgement of a debt

to Aristotle, who was the only philosopher

that ever influenced me.

I devised the rest of my philosophy myself.

(quiet piano music and mumbling)

(beeping)

- [Wallace] You are married?

- [Rand] Yes.

- [Wallace] Your husband, is he an industrialist?

- [Rand] No, he's an artist. His name is Frank O'Connor.

- [Wallace] Does he live from his painting?

- [Rand] He's just beginning to study painting.

He was a designer before.

- [Wallace] Is he supported in his efforts by the state?

- [Rand] Most certainly not.

- [Wallace] He's supported by you for the time being?

- [Rand] No, by his own work, actually, in the past.

- [Wallace] Well, I know that-

- [Rand] By me, if necessary

but that isn't quite necessary.

- [Wallace] And there is no contradiction here

in that you help him?

- [Rand] No, because you see, I am in love

with him selfishly.

It is to my own interest to help him

if he ever needed it.

I would not call that a sacrifice because

I take selfish pleasure in it.

(quiet piano music)

I say that man is entitled to his own happiness

and that he must achieve it himself

but that he cannot demand that others

give up their lives to make him happy

nor should he wish to sacrifice himself

for the happiness of others.

I hold that man should have self-esteem.

- [Wallace] And cannot man have self-esteem

if he loves his fellow man?

Christ and every important modern leader

in man's history has taught us that we should

love one another.

Why then is this kind of love, in your mind, immoral?

- [Rand] It is immoral if it is a love placed above oneself

because more than immoral, it's impossible

because when you are asked to love

everybody indiscriminately

that is, to love people without any standard

to love them regardless of whether

they have any value or virtue

you are asked to love nobody.

- [Wallace] But in a sense, in your book

you talk about love as if it were

a business deal of some kind.

Isn't the essence of love that it is

above self-interest?

- [Rand] Well, what would it mean to have love

above self interest?

It would mean, for instance, that the husband

would tell his wife, if he were moral

according to the conventional morality

that I am marrying you just for your own sake.

I have no personal interest in it

but I am so unselfish that I am marrying you

only for your own good.

- [Wallace] Well, should husbands and wives tally up-

- [Rand] Would any woman like that?

I agree with you that it should be treated

like a business deal

but every business has to have its own terms

and its own kind of currency

and in love, the currency's virtue.

You love people, not for what you do for them

or what they do for you.

You love them for their values, their virtues.

You don't love causelessly.

You don't love everybody indiscriminately.

You love only those who deserve it.

Man has free will.

If a man wants love, he should correct his flaws

and he may deserve it

but he cannot expect the unearned.

- [Wallace] There are very few of us then

in this world by your standards

who are worthy of love.

- [Rand] Unfortunately, yes, very few.

But it is open to everybody

to make themselves worthy of it

and that is all that my morality offers them.

- [Wallace] If they will-

- [Rand] A way to make themselves worthy of love

although that's not the primary motive.

(quiet piano music)

- [Wallace] Isn't it possible that we are all

basically lonely people

and we are basically our brother's keepers?

- [Rand] Nobody has ever given a reason

why man should be their brother's keepers

and you see the examples around you

of men perishing by the attempt

to be their brother's keepers.

- [Wallace] You have no faith in anything?

- [Rand] Faith? Oh no.

- [Wallace] Only in your mind?

- [Rand] That is not faith. That is a conviction.

Yes, I have no faith at all.

I only hold conviction.

(slow piano music)

- [Wallace] As we said at the outset

if Ayn Rand's ideas were ever to take hold

they would revolutionize the world.

And to those who would reject her philosophy

Miss Rand hurls this challenge.

For the past 2,000 years the world has been

dominated by other philosophies.

Look around you.

Consider the results.

We thank Ayn Rand for adding

her portrait to our gallery.

One of the people other people are interested in.

Mike Wallace, goodbye.

(smooth piano music)

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