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  • [Mitch:] Thank you and thank you for coming. [I] just briefly wanted to let you know that my interest

  • in this topic is both professional and personal. I was first introduced to ayahuasca

  • back in 1987, during a trip to Ecuador. We were working with shamans, and

  • I met my future wife just before an ayahuasca session and changed my life in some

  • very significant ways, including my two children, who are now here, my two youngest children.

  • Also, about three years ago, I think it was, I traveled to Ecuador with my oldest son

  • who is now 22, who was experiencing substance abuse problems with alcohol and marijuana

  • and was getting into a lot of trouble. Fortunately we have a friend who's a shaman from Ecuador,

  • who now lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and he had said that [if] we traveled to Ecuador

  • to drink ayahuasca, that it would help him with his substance abuse problem. So, trusting

  • this gentleman very much, we traveled to Ecuador and drank ayahuasca under the tutelage of

  • an older shaman, friend of his, who had been drinking ayahuasca daily for over 50 years

  • in the Rio Napo region of Ecuador. Since my son has...it was not an instant cure, but he is

  • doing much better and not abusing substances any longer. So I have both a personal and

  • professional interest in this topic. Along with my friend James we decided to investigate

  • how [it is] possible that this foul-tasting liquid from the Amazon could help people with addictions.

  • So we began studying different mechanisms to see if we could come up with some hypotheses

  • that might be tested, to better understand how this medicine might work.

  • In looking at this we have come up with four different hypotheses, which we believe are interrelated,

  • that may explain how ayahuasca works. These are not independent hypotheses, but interrelated.

  • We looked at how ayahuasca may work at biochemical, physiological, psychological and

  • transcendent levels. That's what we'd like to present today. I'll turn [this] over to James,

  • for the hard parts of the talk.

  • [James:] So, to set the stage for our first and second hypotheses, I'm going to talk a little bit

  • about the basic biochemistry of ayahuasca and addiction. I'll start with the biochemistry

  • of ayahuasca. I suspect at this point in the conference many of you have been exposed to this material,

  • so I'll move through this first section relatively quickly.

  • Ayahuasca is most commonly a[n] admixture of two plants, Banisteriopsis caapi, from the

  • family malpighiaceae, which is a lot of fun to say, and Psychotria viridis, from the family rubiaceae.

  • Banisteriopsis caapi contains beta-carboline alkaloids. There's the structure of beta-carboline

  • there. It's an indole group, connected to a pyridine ring.

  • Banisteriopsis contains multiple beta-carbolines, primarily harmine and harmaline,

  • and to a lesser degree tetrahydroharmine. You can see how closely these resemble beta-carboline.

  • They differ only among themselves by the location and number of double bonds on the pyridine ring,

  • which is on the right.

  • So what makes beta-carbolines so important? They are important because they are

  • potent monoamine oxidase inhibitors, otherwise known as MAOIs. MAOIs prevent

  • the breakdown of monoamines by inhibiting the enzyme that breaks them down.

  • Some examples of monoamines (you've probably heard of many of these):

  • the catecholamines, like dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, the tryptamines:

  • serotonin, melatonin, dimethyltryptamine, and there are many other amines:

  • trace amines, tyramine, histamine, thyronamine. The ones in red are going to be important for

  • our talk today. So the other plant, Psychotria viridis, contains N,N-dimethyltryptamine.

  • See the chemical structure there? It's an indole-alkylamine.

  • DMT is pretty much ubiquitous in nature, and it's even been found in human cerebro-spinal fluid.

  • You can tell by the name, dimethyltryptamine is similar to 5-hydroxy-tryptamine,

  • otherwise known as serotonin. They both have the indole group on the left [and a] tryptamine base.

  • Because of that similarity between dimethyltryptamine and serotonin, dimethyltryptamine works

  • on basically all of the serotonin receptors. In particular, it has agonist action at

  • subreceptor types 1C, 2A and 2C. Unfortunately for us researchers, [eerie cackling from audience]

  • DMT is a Schedule 1 drug under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, and thus

  • has no approved medical use in the US. When smoked or snorted, DMT is a very potent,

  • very short acting medicine which causes a rapid altered state of consciousness.

  • However, when orally ingested, it's not active because it's broken down by monoamine oxidase

  • enzymes in the GI tract. It is active when orally ingested in the presence of an MAOI.

  • So when dimethyltryptamine in Psychotria viridis is combined with the monoamine oxidase

  • inhibitors in Banisteriopsis caapi, orally active ayahuasca is formed.

  • So on to the biochemistry of addiction. It is an incredibly complex phenomenon.

  • We don't really understand much about it. The brain is the most complex thing in the universe,

  • and addiction uses a lot of parts of the brain, so we're just now starting to figure this out.

  • We're going to be using a pretty broad definition of addiction today that is

  • inclusive of dependence, a complex set of behaviors that includes withdrawal, tolerance,

  • loss of control, compulsivity, preoccupation, and continued use despite adverse consequences.

  • Dopamine is one of the monoamines that we talked about earlier, a catecholamine,

  • it's a neurotransmitter and it's very strongly implicated in both the etiology and the

  • maintenance of addictive behavior. It is associated with things like desire, motivation,

  • salience, novelty, all surrounding pleasurable experiences, like Facebook. [laughter]

  • Natural pleasures, like food, sex, and for me recently, Girl Scout mango creme cookies,

  • [laughter] all increase dopamine levels. Delicious.

  • Drugs of abuse, however, increase dopamine much more than natural responses, 2-10 times

  • more, in fact, than non-drug experiences.

  • There is a mountain of research that supports the idea that elevations in dopamine

  • in a particular brain circuit called the mesolimbic pathway [contribute] to the reinforcing

  • effects of drug abuse and other addictive stimuli/behaviors.

  • The five major types of addictive substances, including alcohol, nicotine, stimulants, opiates,

  • and marijuana, are all known to increase dopamine in this pathway.

  • So what is the mesolimbic pathway? [It] has often been referred to as the pleasure center or

  • reward pathway of the brain. As basic as it gets, it's primarily three brain areas:

  • the ventral tegmental area, the nucleus accumbens, and the prefrontal cortex.

  • The ventral tegmental area is a group of neurons in the midbrain that release dopamine when

  • exposed to addictive drugs or even cues associated with addictive behavior.

  • That dopamine is communicated to the nucleus accumbens, which communicates with the

  • prefrontal cortex.

  • The prefrontal cortex is one of the evolutionarily newest parts of the brain.

  • It's associated with higher-level cortical processes like personality, executive functioning,

  • motivation...It completes the reward circuit by communicating back to the ventral tegmental

  • area both directly and indirectly through another limbic structure called the amygdala.

  • So we've been talking about elevations in dopamine in this particular brain circuit.

  • That's associated with reinforcement. However, acute withdrawal after chronic use

  • of substances is, in contrast, associated with low dopamine levels.

  • Doctors Michael Baumann and Richard Rothman at NIDA have proposed a very provocative

  • model for addictions called the dual deficit model. The premise of this model is that

  • repeated use of drugs of abuse result[s] in decreased levels of both dopamine and serotonin.

  • These deficits in these neurotransmitters are thought to contribute to withdrawal symptoms,

  • drug craving, and the potential for relapse.

  • The low dopamine is thought to play a role in anhedonia, psychomotor slowing, and craving

  • associated with withdrawal. The low serotonin is thought to basically underlie

  • symptoms consistent with major depression: depressed mood, obsessive thoughts,

  • suicidal ideation, impulsivity, etc. So craving may be a subjective manifestation of the brain's

  • homeostatic drive to normalize dopamine in withdrawal.

  • Researchers have found genetic polymorphisms for the dopamine D2 receptor.

  • There's 2 major alleles, DRD2 A1 and DRD2 A2. About a third of the US population is hypothesized to

  • have the [DRD2] A1 allele. People with this allele have a genetically predisposed lower level

  • of dopamine receptors and overall dopaminergic functioning, and as a result of this,

  • they're predisposed to addictive behavior because they always want to normalize that dopamine

  • level, that deficit, based on this principle.

  • So in review, high dopamine in the mesolimbic dopamine pathway is associated with

  • conditioning and reinforcement of addictive behavior. Low dopamine and low serotonin

  • are associated with withdrawal. So therefore, an ideal biochemical treatment would be something

  • that increases serotonin, and balances or normalizes dopamine between withdrawal and reinforcement.

  • Balance is not only the key to life, it is also the key to dopaminergic functioning.

  • High dopamine results in reinforcement of addictive behavior, low dopamine: withdrawal.

  • So our biochemical hypothesis is that ayahuasca's anti-addictive properties result from

  • its ability to raise global serotonin levels in addition to acting as an agonist at particular

  • serotonin receptors, and normalize and stabilize dopamine by what we're calling

  • tug-of-war mechanisms. So how does it act on serotonin? The monoamine oxidase inhibitors

  • in Banisteriopsis that we talked about inhibit the enzyme that breaks down serotonin,

  • which is a tryptamine, therefore raising global serotonin levels. DMT, as we talked about,

  • is an agonist at multiple serotonin receptors. Ayahuasca and dopamine is a little bit

  • more complex. This is the tug-of-war mechanism that I was talking about. So again, monamine oxidase

  • inhibitors are going to block the degradation of catecholamines like dopamine

  • just as they block the tryptamines like serotonin, resulting in elevated global levels.

  • In addition to that, 5-HT(1C) agonism is known to raise dopamine in the mesolimbic pathway.

  • In contrast to those two mechanisms, 5-HT(2A) and -C agonism is known to lower dopamine

  • in the mesolimbic pathway. So what we're hypothesizing is that these tug-of-war

  • mechanisms result in the net effect of normalization or stabilization of dopamine

  • above withdrawal but below reinforcement. So on to the physiology of addiciton.

  • The elevations in dopamine that we've been talking about in the mesolimbic pathway

  • are associated with a phenomenon called synaptic plasticity. This is a process by which

  • the communication and connections between nerve cells are altered or changed.

  • Synaptic plasticity has been associated with the development and maintenance

  • of addictive behavior. So releasing dopamine in two parts of the mesolimbic pathway that

  • we talked about, the ventral tegmental area and the nucleus accumbens, has been hypothesized

  • to reorganize neuronal circuits leading to or reinforcing addictive behavior.

  • We know drugs of abuse acutely raise dopamine in both those areas. This results in a

  • change in neural architecture, and that's associated with conditioned and learned processes.

  • This process has been referred to as "diabolical learning."

  • These neuroplastic changes result in the activation of reward circuitry even when exposed to

  • objectively neutral cues associated with addictive behavior. When I walk down the street,

  • I don't get a dopamine push when I see a street corner. However, the heroin addict who

  • walks by that same street and buys his heroin will get a little bit of a rush just walking by the corner.

  • That's the diabolical learning that we're talking about.

  • According to Stahl, the reward pathway has been "hijacked" by the addiction process.

  • Our physiological hypothesis is that ayahuasca facilitates adaptive synaptic plasticity by

  • regulating dopamine levels and a bunch of other associated cascades in the mesolimbic

  • pathway: things like glutamate, GABA, metabitropic second messengers, transcription factors.

  • There's a lot that goes on behind synaptic plasticity, but dopamine does play a large role,

  • we know. So again, balance is important. High dopamine: reward circuit hijacking.

  • Low dopamine: diminished impetus for neural plasticity. This adaptive plasticity

  • that we're talking about would allow the learning of new behaviors and associations without

  • hijacking the circuit. It would also, interestingly, supporting the unlearning of addictive

  • associations and cues, by allowing the person who is under the influence of ayahuasca to experience

  • these cues in the visionary state while being protected from the dopaminergic surge

  • that would lead to reinforcement or pathological learning (diabolical learning).

  • On to the psychology of ayahuasca and [I'll] pass it over to Mitch.

  • [Mitch:] So we've covered our first two hypotheses and we're running out of time,

  • so we're going to cover the psychological and transcendent hypotheses next.

  • one of the ways that it's believed that ayahuasca may work is to allow access to unconscious

  • emotional memories and issues which allows an opportunity to heal those.

  • So often, when we have trauma, we become defended against those memories. We...use our

  • defense mechanisms to block them out. Ayahuasca lowers those defenses, such that we can

  • access those unconscious memories and heal trauma. In this way it's very similar

  • to what was referred to as psycholytic therapy back in the 1950s and '60s with LSD,

  • in which LSD was incorporated with psychotherapy to help the healing process.

  • In addition to helping heal past traumas, it has also been proposed that ayahuasca allows

  • users to experience the future consequences of their choices. This is an indigenous hypothesis,

  • or belief system or interpretation. My friend Rafael, who is the shaman, Rafael Yamberla

  • says that the reason he wanted my son to go to drink ayahuasca was [so] that he could see

  • what would happen if he continued to drink alcohol. He would have visions. He said he would

  • see a fork in the road, and then he could choose which path he wanted to take.

  • In fact, that's what my son saw. Some of you may say that was suggested, some may say it was real.

  • It doesn't matter. The outcome was a very positive one. So the psychological

  • hypothesis is that ayahuasca treats addictions by helping resolve traumas,

  • encouraging the understanding of potential outcomes of choices, and improving decision-making.

  • Now on to the fourth and final category, the transcendent effects of ayahuasca.

  • During the '50s and '60s, transcendent experiences were reported with many

  • psychedelic medicines including LSD and mescaline. These were sometimes

  • referred to as "psychedelic peak experiences," modeled after Abraham Maslow's

  • theory of peak experiences.

  • Ayahuasca also has the potential to produce transcendent experiences, as some of

  • you in the room may have experienced yourselves. These are known to aid

  • in the treatment of addictions. In fact, in some models, these are the most important

  • experiences to have if you want to overcome an addiction. As some of you

  • may be aware, Bill Wilson, who was the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous,

  • had a transcendent experience that did not involve ayahuasca, did not involve

  • any medicines, but it was a very powerful experience for him. He attributed [to that] his

  • recovery from alcoholism. He later became a supporter of psychedelic medicines

  • in the treatment of addictions. So in the '50s and '60s, LSD was used quite commonly, [was]

  • quite widespread to treat alcoholism. A recent meta-analysis published in 2002

  • found that LSD treatment was as effective as currently available medicines,

  • such as disulfiram, naltrexone, and acamprosate. These are also known as

  • Antabuse, Revia, and Campral. These are medicines that doctors can prescribe today

  • for treatment of alcoholism. We can't prescribe ayahuasca or LSD.

  • So it was found that individuals undergoing treatment with LSD were more likely to recover

  • from their addictions if they had a psychedelic peak experience than if they did not.

  • This leads to our final hypothesis, the transcendent hypothesis, which says that ayahuasca treats

  • addictions by facilitating transcendent experiences. So in summary, we believe that

  • ayahuasca doesn't work at any one of these levels alone, but in fact works at all [of]

  • these different levels as well as, likely, others. The most effective way to really understand

  • ayahuasca's efficacy is to really look at an integrative holistic approach, which

  • considers all of these different mechanisms working together to aid in the

  • treatment of addictions. Yet, we still need more research, obviously to understand more about

  • these mechanisms, as well as others, and how they may be beneficial.

  • Also, we need to learn more about the risks of this medicine. As with any medicine,

  • there are always potential benefits and risks. If we ignore the risks, we can get into trouble.

  • We hope that there will be continuing research looking at all these different levels.

  • Furthermore, we think it's very important, having both worked with indigenous shamans,

  • to really rely upon and work collaboratively with indigenous healers,

  • who have much, much more experience with this medicine than those of use who are

  • discovering it here. There are many shamans who are willing to collaborate with us if only

  • we're willing to listen. In summary, that's our presentation. I think we have

  • just a few minutes left for some questions. [applause]

  • [moderator:] Thank you Mitch and James. There's a microphone here if anybody would like to

  • come up and ask a question.

  • Q: Hi. Thanks a lot. The neurochemical changes that you were talking about, associated with

  • the beta-carbolines and also the agonist activity of dimethyltryptamine seemed like it

  • would be [a] very short-term situation of changing neurochemistry to help addiction.

  • So what would be the theory for why that would have a long-term result? Is it

  • because of the revisiting of what normally [are] triggers for addiction in that state,

  • thereby rewiring your normal triggers during the experience?

  • A: So we don't really know what the long-term biochemical effects of ayahuasca are,

  • so it may very well only work in the short term. But we have these three other hypotheses

  • that may work long term; that's only one. So...to emphasize the importance of all of these

  • together, it's not just one of these hypotheses that really helps somebody get over

  • addiction, but all of them together. Does that make sense? Sorry, I don't know more about the

  • long-term effects because I don't think anybody does, as far as I know.

  • Q: Thank you.

  • Q: Hi, I have two quick questions. The first one pertains to the physiologic[al] hypothesis.

  • 5-HT(2A) agonists have been shown in a variety of studies to increase brain-derived

  • neurotrophic factor levels in the prefrontal cortex, and then studies with ibogaine more recently

  • have been shown to increase glial cell derived neurotrophic factors, specifically

  • in the ventral tegmental area that correlates with the changes in synaptic plasticity,

  • so that's the first question,

  • A: What's the question?

  • Q: Is there any research going on currently to investigate whether those changes in

  • BDNF may correlate with any positive benefits? And then the second question is...

  • A: Let me answer that one first, because I'll forget it. Sorry.

  • Q: Sure.

  • A: ...There's so much research going on with BDNF right now. I don't know that

  • any research is going on with ayahuasca and BDNF. But you bring up an excellent point.

  • We're going to write a book chapter based on this stuff, that's a little more extensive,

  • [about] the biochemistry and physiology, and I plan on adding some of that in there,

  • but I don't think there's much. I don't know much about it.

  • Q: Okay, cool. The second question is, is there any reason to think that pharmahuasca

  • combination of moclobemide and purified DMT, which would have a lot less

  • gastrointestinal side effects, would be any less efficacious than the traditional

  • admixture of plants?

  • A: You provide the funding and we'll figure it out. [laughter]

  • Q: Hi. It's been reported that both ibogaine and harmaline, potent beta-carbolines,

  • are [cytotoxic] and cause cerebellar neuronal loss. One other possible mechanism

  • for the cure of addiction is that, it's been also reported that trauma in the early years

  • or neonatal trauma, causes an exuberance of connections to the cerebellum...

  • and this results in adult hypersensitivity to stress. Perhaps one of the mechanisms

  • that ibogaine and ayahuasca...

  • [moderator:] Sorry, we need a question.

  • Q: I'm getting to it...utilize, is they're actually pruning away this excess amount of connection

  • in the stressed individuals and perhaps those connections are what

  • drive addiction to begin with. So I wonder if you have any comments about the cytotoxicity

  • of these beta-carbolines.

  • A: No, I'm sorry, I don't know anything about that. I do know that anything is cytotoxic in excess,

  • and one of the things that we talk about is [that] there's a lot more research that needs to be done.

  • Q: This is reported in the literature, and if you look up,

  • A: I'm sorry, we actually have to [take] a few more questions in just a couple minutes,

  • so we're going to have to move on.

  • Q: Alright. Look it up. You'll find that it's been reported.

  • A: I think what...thank you for your question/comment. I do think it's fascinating.

  • I ran across a couple articles from Brazil about the neurotoxicity, but I didn't actually,

  • since it wasn't directly related to what we were doing, I didn't look into them greatly,

  • so I can't remember.

  • Q: Hello. Thank you and congratulations. I was just wondering [about] one of the slides saying how

  • ayahuasca is just as effective as Antabuse, Vivitrol and Revia. Is there any data behind it?

  • A: Yes. The study that we referenced there, the Krebs study, gives the data that examines the

  • efficacy of various medications in the treatment of addictions. So if you want,

  • we can give that reference afterwards.

  • Q: Any comment specifically about heroin addiction in your experience?

  • A: I don't know if anyone has specifically treated heroin addiction. We've looked at

  • addiction as a global process. I don't know that anyone has done any studies specifically

  • looking at ayahuasca treatment of heroin...

  • [James:] One of the interesting things about the study of addiction is when they first started

  • studying addiction, they thought that heroin addicts, or heroin, would have a

  • specific mechanism in the brain, and so would cocaine, and so would whatever other addiction.

  • They do to a certain extent, but what's really interesting is that no matter

  • what the addiction is, it all ends up in the mesolimbic pathway, and that's why

  • we focused on that, and that's why so much addiction research has really focused on

  • that final common pathway.

  • Q: Hi. I was wondering, what happens if you drink too much ayahuasca? Can you overdose [on] ayahuasca?

  • A: Well, I don't know the answer. I don't know anyone that's tried. In Colorado,

  • we had a young lady that died from drinking too much water: idiopathic water intoxication.

  • So everything has a lethal dose. I don't know that anyone's determined what the

  • lethal dose of ayahuasca is but there's something called the LD-50, which is the dose at which

  • 50 percent of, usually, mice die if they give them a high enough dose. So is it

  • possible theoretically? Absolutely. So I wouldn't suggest going out and drinking it like

  • water. But I don't know if there has been determined an actual lethal dose.

  • [moderator:] Okay, that's going to be our last question, because we're actually now onto the next speaker.

  • So thank you, Mitch and James. [applause]

[Mitch:] Thank you and thank you for coming. [I] just briefly wanted to let you know that my interest

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