but TED's audience is global,

艾瑞克.豪斯伯格：我想大家 都很熟悉諾曼了，不需要太多的介紹了，

it's diverse,

但是TED的觀眾來自全球，

so I've been tasked with starting with his bio,

相當多元。

which could easily take up the entire 18 minutes.

所以我被要求從介紹他的生平開始，

So instead we're going to do 93 years in 93 seconds or less.

這樣就可以輕鬆用完 整個 18 分鐘。

(Laughter)

所以我們決定用 93 秒或更少的時間 來介紹諾曼的這 93 年。

You were born in New Hampshire.

（笑聲）

Norman Lear: New Haven, Connecticut.

你出生於新罕布什爾州。

EH: New Haven, Connecticut.

諾曼·李爾：是紐黑文，

(Laughter)

艾瑞克：哦，你生於紐黑文， 康乃狄克州。

NL: There goes seven more seconds.

（笑聲）

EH: Nailed it.

諾曼：這樣就過 7 秒鐘了。

(Laughter)

艾瑞克：先記在牆上。

You were born in New Haven, Connecticut.

（笑聲）

Your father was a con man -- I got that right.

你生於紐黑文，康乃狄克州。

He was taken away to prison when you were nine years old.

你的父親是靠行騙為生——這次我對了。

You flew 52 missions as a fighter pilot in World War II.

在你九歲的時候， 他被帶走進了監獄。

You came back to --

在二戰中你是一位飛行員 執行了52次任務。

NL: Radio operator.

你回來後——

EH: You came to LA to break into Hollywood,

諾曼：成為接線生。

first in publicity, then in TV.

艾瑞克：你到洛杉磯闖入了好萊塢，

You had no training as a writer, formally,

首先當宣傳，接著是在電視領域。

but you hustled your way in.

你是一位沒有接受過 正式的訓練的作家，

Your breakthrough, your debut,

但你闖出了你的路。

was a little show called "All in the Family."

你的突破，你的首秀，

You followed that up with a string of hits

是一部小電視劇《全家福》。

that to this day is unmatched in Hollywood:

緊接著你拍了一系列

"Sanford and Son," "Maude," "Good Times,"

至今都在好萊塢無與倫比的電視劇：

"The Jeffersons," "One Day at a Time,"

《桑福德和兒子》，《Maude》，《好時光》，

"Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman,"

《傑佛遜一家》，《隨遇而安》，

to name literally a fraction of them.

《瑪麗·哈特曼》，

Not only are they all commercially --

這裏只提到了一部分。

(Applause)

這些電視劇不僅在商業上——

Not only are they all commercially successful,

（掌聲）

but many of them push our culture forward

它們不僅都獲得了商業上的成功，

by giving the underrepresented members of society

其中也通過很多電視劇 推動了文化的發展。

their first prime-time voice.

讓社會中代表性不足的群體

You have seven shows in the top 10 at one time.

首次在黃金時段發聲。

At one point,

你曾有七部電視劇同時在收視率前十。

you aggregate an audience of 120 million people per week

你一度吸引了

watching your content.

一億兩千萬的觀眾，

That's more than the audience for Super Bowl 50,

每周觀看你的電視劇。

which happens once a year.

人數甚至還超過

NL: Holy shit.

每年一度的超級杯。

(Laughter)

諾曼：哇靠！

(Applause)

（笑聲）

EH: And we're not even to the holy shit part.

（掌聲）

(Laughter)

艾瑞克：我們甚至還沒有說到 令人驚嘆的哇靠部分。

You land yourself on Richard Nixon's enemies list --

（笑聲）

he had one.

你使自己成為理查德·尼克松 名單上的敵人——

That's an applause line, too.

他有這麽一份。

(Applause)

這也值得大家的掌聲。

You're inducted into the TV Hall of Fame on the first day that it exists.

（掌聲）

Then came the movies.

你在名單曝光第一天 就被列入了電視名人堂。

"Fried Green Tomatoes,"

接下來談談電影。

"The Princess Bride," "Stand By Me,"

《油炸綠蕃茄》，

"This Is Spinal Tap."

《公主新娘》，《伴我同行》，

(Applause)

《搖滾萬歲》。

Again, just to name a fraction.

（掌聲）

(Applause)

這裏還是只提了一部分。

Then you wipe the slate clean,

（掌聲）

start a third act as a political activist focusing on protecting the First Amendment

然後你開創的「三幕劇架構」 橫掃了電影界，

and the separation of church and state.

從政時致力於保護第一修正案，

You start People For The American Way.

堅持政治與宗教分離。

You buy the Declaration of Independence

你建立了美國之道團體。

and give it back to the people.

你買下了獨立宣言，

You stay active in both entertainment and politics

然後把它歸還給人民。

until the ripe old of age of 93,

你到了 93 歲高齡，

when you write a book

都還一直活躍在娛樂界和政界，

and make a documentary about your life story.

然後你開始寫書，

And after all that,

並且制作了一部關於你人生的紀錄片。

they finally think you're ready for a TED Talk.

經歷了所有的這一切，

(Laughter)

他們終於覺得你準備好 要做 TED 演講了。

(Applause)

（笑聲）

NL: I love being here.

（掌聲）

And I love you for agreeing to do this.

諾曼：很高興來到這裏。

EH: Thank you for asking. It's my honor.

也很高興你同意做這個訪談。

So here's my first question.

艾瑞克：謝謝你的邀請。我的榮幸。

Was your mother proud of you?

然後這是我的第一個問題：

(Laughter)

你的媽媽有為你感到驕傲嗎？

NL: My mother ...

（笑聲）

what a place to start.

諾曼：我的媽媽……

Let me put it this way --

真是一個好的開始啊！

when I came back from the war,

讓我這樣說吧——

she showed me the letters that I had written her from overseas,

當我從戰場上回來，

and they were absolute love letters.

她給我看了我從海外寄給她的信，

(Laughter)

那些絕對都是情書。

This really sums up my mother.

（笑聲）

They were love letters,

這確實概括形容了我媽媽。

as if I had written them to --

那些情書，

they were love letters.

那些情書就好像是我寫給——

A year later I asked my mother if I could have them,

它們就是情書。

because I'd like to keep them all the years of my life ...

一年後我問媽媽， 我是否能擁有它們，

She had thrown them away.

因為我想一輩子保存它們……

(Laughter)

她說，她已經扔掉了。

That's my mother.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

這就是我老媽。

The best way I can sum it up in more recent times is --

（笑聲）

this is also more recent times --

最近，我能總結我媽 的最好方式——

a number of years ago,

這也是最近的事——

when they started the Hall of Fame to which you referred.

幾年前，

It was a Sunday morning,

當他們開始籌備 你剛剛提到的名人堂的時候。

when I got a call from the fellow who ran the TV Academy of Arts & Sciences.

那是一個周日的早晨，

He was calling me to tell me they had met all day yesterday

我接到了一個管理電視藝術 及科學學院朋友的電話。

and he was confidentially telling me they were going to start a hall of fame

他打電話告訴我說， 他們昨天談了一整天，

and these were the inductees.

他肯定地告訴我， 他們將要成立一個名人堂，

I started to say "Richard Nixon,"

裡面有一些入選者。

because Richard Nixon --

我開頭就說「理查德·尼克松」，

EH: I don't think he was on their list.

因為理查德·尼克松——

NL: William Paley, who started CBS,

艾瑞克：我不認為他在名單上。

David Sarnoff, who started NBC,

諾曼：CBS 之父威廉·佩利，

Edward R. Murrow,

創立 NBC 的大衛·沙諾夫，

the greatest of the foreign correspondents,

愛德華·Ｒ·默羅，

Paddy Chayefsky --

最偉大的駐外記者，

I think the best writer that ever came out of television --

帕迪·查耶夫斯基——

Milton Berle, Lucille Ball

我認為是電視界最好的編劇——

and me.

米爾頓·伯利，露西·鮑爾，

EH: Not bad.

還有我。

NL: I call my mother immediately in Hartford, Connecticut.

艾瑞克：不錯。

"Mom, this is what's happened,

諾曼：我立刻打電話給 在哈特福德.康乃狄克州的媽媽。

they're starting a hall of fame."

「媽媽，你知道嗎，

I tell her the list of names and me,

他們要成立一個名人堂。」

and she says,

我告訴她那些入選者的名字，還有我，

"Listen, if that's what they want to do, who am I to say?"

然後她說，

(Laughter)

「聽著，如果他們要這麽做， 我又能說甚麼？」

(Applause)

（笑聲）

That's my Ma.

（掌聲）

I think it earns that kind of a laugh

這就是我媽媽。

because everybody has a piece of that mother.

我覺得能這麼好笑的原因是，

(Laughter)

因為每個人的媽媽都有這樣的一面。

EH: And the sitcom Jewish mother is born, right there.

（笑聲）

So your father also played a large role in your life,

艾瑞克：情景喜劇中的 猶太人媽媽就這樣誕生了。

mostly by his absence.

你的父親在你的人生中 也扮演了重要的角色，

NL: Yeah.

大部分是因為他的缺席。

EH: Tell us what happened when you were nine years old.

諾曼：是。

NL: He was flying to Oklahoma

艾瑞克：告訴我們你九歲的時候 發生了什麽。

with three guys that my mother said,

諾曼：他當時要與三個人 一同飛去俄克拉何馬州，

"I don't want you to have anything to do with them,

我媽媽說，

I don't trust those men."

「我不想你和那三個人有任何關係，

That's when I heard,

我不相信那些男人。」

maybe not for the first time,

我當時聽到的是這樣，

"Stifle yourself, Jeanette, I'm going."

這已經不是第一次聽到了，

And he went.

「別說了，珍妮特。我要去了。」

It turns out he was picking up some fake bonds,

然後他去了。

which he was flying across the country to sell.

後來才知道他拿了一些假債券，

But the fact that he was going to Oklahoma in a plane,

飛到全國各地兜售。

and he was going to bring me back a 10-gallon hat,

但有一次他坐飛機去 奧克拉瑪州，

just like Ken Maynard, my favorite cowboy wore.

他要給我帶回一個 十加侖的寬邊高頂帽，

You know, this was a few years after Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic.

就像我最喜歡的牛仔 肯· 梅德納戴的那頂。

I mean, it was exotic that my father was going there.

你知道這是在很多年前 林德伯格穿越大西洋之後。

But when he came back,

我的意思是， 我爸那時候去那兒很奇怪。

they arrested him as he got off the plane.

但是當他回來的時候，

That night newspapers were all over the house,

他一下飛機就被逮捕了。

my father was with his hat in front of his face,

那一晚，屋裏到處都是新聞報紙，

manacled to a detective.

我爸爸用帽子遮著自己的臉，

And my mother was selling the furniture, because we were leaving --

他被刑警銬上手銬。

she didn't want to stay in that state of shame,

我媽媽開始賣家具， 因為我們要離開了——

in Chelsea, Massachusetts.

她不想待在切爾西，馬薩諸塞州

And selling the furniture --

生活在恥辱中。

the house was loaded with people.

她在賣家具的時候——

And in the middle of all of that,

屋裏全都是人。

some strange horse's ass put his hand on my shoulder and said,

在這些人當中，

"Well, you're the man of the house now."

有一個奇怪的蠢貨 把手放到我的肩膀上，說：

I'm crying, and this asshole says, "You're the man of the house now."

「嗯，現在你是家中的男人了。」

And I think that was the moment

我正在哭，而這個混蛋說， 「現在你是這個家裏的男人了。」

I began to understand the foolishness of the human condition.

我想我就是從那時起

So ...

開始理解到人性的愚蠢。

it took a lot of years to look back at it and feel it was a benefit.

然後……

But --

我花了很多年重新審視它 並感覺到它的好處。

EH: It's interesting you call it a benefit.

但是——

NL: Benefit in that it gave me that springboard.

艾瑞克：這很有趣， 你把它看作是好處。

I mean that I could think

諾曼：好處是說， 它給了我一個成功的跳板。

how foolish it was to say to this crying nine-year-old boy,

我的意思是說，

"You're the man of the house now."

對一個在哭泣的九歲男孩說 「現在你是這個家裏的男人了。」

And then I was crying, and then he said,

這樣的行為很愚蠢。

"And men of the house don't cry."

然後我還在哭，然後他又說：

And I ...

「一家之主是不能流淚的。」

(Laughter)

然後我……

So ...

（笑聲）

I look back, and I think

所以……

that's when I learned the foolishness of the human condition,

我回顧過去這些日子，我在想

and it's been that gift that I've used.

那個時候，我了解到了人性的愚蠢，

EH: So you have a father who's absent,

之後我一直受益於這個禮物。

you have a mother for whom apparently nothing is good enough.

艾瑞克：所以你有一個缺席的父親，

Do you think that starting out as a kid who maybe never felt heard

你有一個認為什麽都不夠好的母親。

started you down a journey

你覺不覺得，這一切的開始也許就是那個

that ended with you being an adult

從未被傾聽的孩子的成長旅程，

with a weekly audience of 120 million people?

帶領你最後成為一個

NL: I love the way you put that question,

一周擁有一億兩千萬收視觀眾的成人？

because I guess I've spent my life wanting --

諾曼：我喜歡你問這個問題的方式，

if anything, wanting to be heard.

因為我想，我已經花了一生的時間想——

I think --

如果有，是有那些聲音需要被傾聽的。

It's a simple answer, yes,

我想——

that was what sparked --

這是個簡單的答案，是，

well, there were other things, too.

就是這個激勵了我——

When my father was away,

嗯，也有別的。

I was fooling with a crystal radio set that we had made together,

我爸爸不在的時候，

and I caught a signal that turned out to be Father Coughlin.

我會把玩一個我們之前 一起做的礦石收音機，

(Laughter)

我捕捉到一個信號， 結果是神父柯林。

Yeah, somebody laughed.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

嗯，一些人笑了。

But not funny,

（笑聲）

this was a horse's --

但是這並不笑，

another horse's ass --

這是一個蠢——

who was very vocal about hating the New Deal

另一個蠢貨——

and Roosevelt and Jews.

他很厭惡羅斯福的新政、

The first time I ran into an understanding

及羅斯福本人及猶太人。

that there were people in this world that hated me

那是我第一次意識到

because I was born to Jewish parents.

這個世界上有人討厭我

And that had an enormous effect on my life.

就因為我父母是猶太人。

EH: So you had a childhood

這對我的人生產生了巨大的影響。

with little in the way of strong male role models,

艾瑞克：你的童年

except for your grandfather.

缺少強大的男性榜樣，

Tell us about him.

除了你的爺爺。

NL: Oh, my grandfather.

跟我們談談他吧！

Well here's the way I always talked about that grandfather.

諾曼：哦，我的爺爺。

There were parades,

嗯，我總是這樣談論我的爺爺。

lots of parades when I was a kid.

我還是個孩子的時候

There were parades on Veteran's Day --

有遊行，很多遊行。

there wasn't a President's Day.

老兵節有遊行——

There was Abraham Lincoln's birthday,

不過總統日沒有。

George Washington's birthday

亞伯拉罕·林肯的生日有，

and Flag Day ...

喬治·華盛頓的生日有，

And lots of little parades.

還有國旗日……

My grandfather used to take me

也有很多小遊行。

and we'd stand on the street corner,

我爺爺以前會帶我去，

he'd hold my hand,

我們會站在街角，

and I'd look up and I'd see a tear running down his eye.

他拉著我的手，

And he meant a great deal to me.

我擡頭看到他在流眼淚。

And he used to write presidents of the United States.

他對我意義很大。

Every letter started,

他以前會給美國總統寫信。

"My dearest, darling Mr. President,"

每封信都這樣開始，

and he'd tell him something wonderful about what he did.

「我最最親愛的總統先生，」

But when he disagreed with the President, he also wrote,

然後告訴他一些， 他做地很棒的事。

"My dearest, darling Mr. President,

但是當他不同意 總統的決定時，他也寫信。

Didn't I tell you last week ...?"

「我最最親愛的總統先生，

(Laughter)

上星期我是不是跟你說過……？」

And I would run down the stairs every now and then

（笑聲）

and pick up the mail.

我們三個開心的像飛機一樣， 經常往樓梯下跑，去拿信件，

We were three flights up,

我們三個當時住 康涅狄格州紐黑文約克街的74號。

74 York Street, New Haven, Connecticut.

我會拿到一個小信封，上面寫著 「給住在這裏的 Shya C.」。

And I'd pick up a little white envelope reading, "Shya C. called at this address."

以上就是我講述過 有關於我爺爺的故事——

And that's the story I have told about my grandfather --

艾瑞克：他們在信封上回信——

EH: They wrote him back on the envelopes --

諾曼：他們回信了。

NL: They wrote back.

但我已經向他們坦白，

But I have shown them myself,

從老早前的菲爾多納休 還有在他之前的其他人，

going way back to Phil Donahue and others before him,

幾乎每次的訪談中， 我都有提到那個故事，

literally dozens of interviews in which I told that story.

這將是我第二次說 這整個故事是個謊言。

This will be the second time I have said the whole story was a lie.

真相是我爺爺帶我去遊行，

The truth was my grandfather took me to parades,

我們去過很多次。

we had lots of those.

真相是他流淚了。

The truth is a tear came down his eye.

真相是他偶爾會寫一封信，