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  • Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Joanna Pietrulewicz

    譯者: Regina Chu 審譯者: SF Huang

  • So you probably have the sense, as most people do,

    你大概像大家一樣,

  • that polarization is getting worse in our country,

    意識到這個國家愈來愈兩極化,

  • that the divide between the left and the right

    左派與右派之間的隔閡,

  • is as bad as it's been in really any of our lifetimes.

    這輩子從來沒有像現在這麼糟過。

  • But you might also reasonably wonder if research backs up your intuition.

    你也可能理性地想過 你的直覺是否有研究實證。

  • And in a nutshell, the answer is sadly yes.

    一言以蔽之,這個答案 很不幸的是「有」。

  • In study after study, we find

    一個又一個的研究顯示

  • that liberals and conservatives have grown further apart.

    自由派與保守派早已漸行漸遠。

  • They increasingly wall themselves off in these ideological silos,

    他們愈來愈把自己關在 意識形態的巨塔中,

  • consuming different news, talking only to like-minded others

    看不同的新聞,只跟同類的人講話,

  • and more and more choosing to live in different parts of the country.

    而且愈來愈傾向 選擇住在不同的地方。

  • And I think that most alarming of all of it

    我認為最令人擔心的

  • is seeing this rising animosity on both sides.

    是兩邊興起的敵意。

  • Liberals and conservatives,

    自由派與保守派,

  • Democrats and Republicans,

    民主黨與共和黨,

  • more and more they just don't like one another.

    他們就是愈來愈不喜歡對方。

  • You see it in many different ways.

    你在很多方面都能觀察到這件事。

  • They don't want to befriend one another. They don't want to date one another.

    他們不要跟對方做朋友。 他們不要跟對方約會。

  • If they do, if they find out, they find each other less attractive,

    即使約了,如果發現彼此立場不同, 就覺得對方不像之前那麼有吸引力,

  • and they more and more don't want their children to marry someone

    他們愈來愈不想讓自己的孩子

  • who supports the other party,

    與支持另一黨的人結婚,

  • a particularly shocking statistic.

    這項統計特別令人震驚。

  • You know, in my lab, the students that I work with,

    你知道嗎,在我的實驗室, 我與共事的學生群

  • we're talking about some sort of social pattern --

    常常會聊一些社會模式──

  • I'm a movie buff, and so I'm often like,

    我是個電影癡,我常常這樣想,

  • what kind of movie are we in here with this pattern?

    這樣的模式下我們在演哪齣電影?

  • So what kind of movie are we in with political polarization?

    政治兩極化下我們在演哪齣戲?

  • Well, it could be a disaster movie.

    嗯,可能是災難片。

  • It certainly seems like a disaster.

    確實很像災難片。

  • Could be a war movie.

    可能是戰爭片。

  • Also fits.

    也很像。

  • But what I keep thinking is that we're in a zombie apocalypse movie.

    但是我一直都認為我們是活在 殭屍啟示錄這類的電影裡。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • Right? You know the kind.

    對吧?你知道那種電影。

  • There's people wandering around in packs,

    成群結隊的人四處晃盪,

  • not thinking for themselves,

    完全身不由己,

  • seized by this mob mentality

    被暴民心態奪心勾魂,

  • trying to spread their disease and destroy society.

    要傳播他們的疾病摧毀社會。

  • And you probably think, as I do,

    你大概跟我一樣會想

  • that you're the good guy in the zombie apocalypse movie,

    你是殭屍片裡的好人,

  • and all this hate and polarization, it's being propagated by the other people,

    所有的仇恨啊兩極化啊, 都是另一邊的人搞起來的。

  • because we're Brad Pitt, right?

    因為我們都是布萊德·彼特,對吧?

  • Free-thinking, righteous,

    自由思考、正義凜然,

  • just trying to hold on to what we hold dear,

    試圖堅守我們珍愛的,

  • you know, not foot soldiers in the army of the undead.

    你知道,不要當殭屍的走路工。

  • Not that.

    才不要。

  • Never that.

    絕對不要。

  • But here's the thing:

    問題是:

  • what movie do you suppose they think they're in?

    你想他們覺得自己 是活在什麼電影裡呢?

  • Right?

    對吧?

  • Well, they absolutely think that they're the good guys

    他們當然認為自己

  • in the zombie apocalypse movie. Right?

    才是殭屍片裡的好人,對吧?

  • And you'd better believe that they think that they're Brad Pitt

    你最好相信他們認為 自己才是布萊德·彼特,

  • and that we, we are the zombies.

    而我們,我們才是殭屍。

  • And who's to say that they're wrong?

    誰能說他們是錯的?

  • I think that the truth is that we're all a part of this.

    我認為真相是我們都身在其中。

  • And the good side of that is that we can be a part of the solution.

    好的一面就是我們也可以 成為解決方案的一部分。

  • So what are we going to do?

    那我們要怎麼辦?

  • What can we do to chip away at polarization in everyday life?

    我們在日常生活中要怎麼做 才能逐漸消彌兩極化?

  • What could we do to connect with and communicate with

    我們要怎麼做才能

  • our political counterparts?

    與我們政治上的死對頭 建立關係、對話?

  • Well, these were exactly the questions that I and my colleague, Matt Feinberg,

    這正是我與我的同事麥特.范柏格

  • became fascinated with a few years ago,

    在幾年前開始熱衷的問題,

  • and we started doing research on this topic.

    我們開始研究這個題目。

  • And one of the first things that we discovered

    我們最先發現的幾件事裡,

  • that I think is really helpful for understanding polarization

    有一樣我認為對瞭解 兩極化非常有幫助,

  • is to understand

    就是我們必須了解

  • that the political divide in our country is undergirded by a deeper moral divide.

    我國的政治分歧來自於 根深蒂固的道德分歧。

  • So one of the most robust findings in the history of political psychology

    政治心理學史上 有一項強有力的發現,

  • is this pattern identified by Jon Haidt and Jesse Graham,

    由強海特及傑西格藍發現的模式,

  • psychologists,

    這兩位是心理學家,

  • that liberals and conservatives tend to endorse different values

    他們發現自由派及保守派 傾向對不同的價值觀

  • to different degrees.

    有不同程度的支持。

  • So for example, we find that liberals tend to endorse values like equality

    舉個例子,我們發現自由派 對於認同平等、公平、

  • and fairness and care and protection from harm

    關懷和保護免受傷害等價值觀,

  • more than conservatives do.

    其程度比保守派大。

  • And conservatives tend to endorse values like loyalty, patriotism,

    保守派則對忠誠、愛國、

  • respect for authority and moral purity

    尊重權威及道德純潔等,

  • more than liberals do.

    比自由派更加支持。

  • And Matt and I were thinking that maybe this moral divide

    麥特和我認為或許這種道德分歧,

  • might be helpful for understanding how it is

    可能對了解

  • that liberals and conservatives talk to one another

    自由派與保守派的對話模式有幫助,

  • and why they so often seem to talk past one another

    以及為什麼他們在對話時 常常好像雞同鴨講。

  • when they do.

    所以我們做了一項研究,

  • So we conducted a study

    我們招募自由派來做一項研究,

  • where we recruited liberals to a study

    他們應該要寫一份說服性短論,

  • where they were supposed to write a persuasive essay

    吸引保守人士支持同性婚姻。

  • that would be compelling to a conservative in support of same-sex marriage.

    我們發現自由派往往

  • And what we found was that liberals tended to make arguments

    用自由派的道德價值觀, 如平等及公平來論述。

  • in terms of the liberal moral values of equality and fairness.

    所以他們會說出像這樣的話:

  • So they said things like,

    「每個人都應該有權利 愛他們選擇的人。」

  • "Everyone should have the right to love whoever they choose,"

    而且「他們」──指美國同性戀──

  • and, "They" -- they being gay Americans --

    「應與其他美國人享有 同樣的平等權利。」

  • "deserve the same equal rights as other Americans."

    總體而言,我們發現 69% 的自由派

  • Overall, we found that 69 percent of liberals

    會引用偏向自由派的道德 價值觀來寫短論,

  • invoked one of the more liberal moral values in constructing their essay,

    只有 9% 會引用 偏向保守派的道德價值觀,

  • and only nine percent invoked one of the more conservative moral values,

    即使他們應該要試著說服保守派。

  • even though they were supposed to be trying to persuade conservatives.

    在我們研究保守人士, 要他們寫說服論據

  • And when we studied conservatives and had them make persuasive arguments

    支持讓英語成為美國的國語時,

  • in support of making English the official language of the US,

    這是很經典的保守派政治立場,

  • a classically conservative political position,

    我們發現他們在這點的 表現也沒有比較好。

  • we found that they weren't much better at this.

    59% 的人論述時,

  • 59 percent of them made arguments

    引用偏向保守派的道德價值觀,

  • in terms of one of the more conservative moral values,

    只有 8% 引用一項 自由派的道德價值觀,

  • and just eight percent invoked a liberal moral value,

    儘管他們說服的目標 應該是自由派人士。

  • even though they were supposed to be targeting liberals for persuasion.

    現在,你馬上就了解為什麼 我們有這種麻煩,對吧?

  • Now, you can see right away why we're in trouble here. Right?

    人的道德價值觀 是他們最堅信不移的信念。

  • People's moral values, they're their most deeply held beliefs.

    人願意為了價值觀戰鬥、犧牲性命。

  • People are willing to fight and die for their values.

    他們為什麼要放棄價值觀, 只為了與你認同

  • Why are they going to give that up just to agree with you

    他們本來就不同意的東西?

  • on something that they don't particularly want to agree with you on anyway?

    如果你對共和黨叔叔 提出的那番呼籲,

  • If that persuasive appeal that you're making to your Republican uncle

    不但要讓他改變觀點,

  • means that he doesn't just have to change his view,

    還要改變他最基本的價值觀,

  • he's got to change his underlying values, too,

    大概沒有什麼效果。

  • that's not going to go very far.

    所以怎麼做才有用?

  • So what would work better?

    嗯,我們相信有個方法, 我們稱之為道德重新框架,

  • Well, we believe it's a technique that we call moral reframing,

    我們對此用一系列的實驗來研究。

  • and we've studied it in a series of experiments.

    在其中一項實驗中,

  • In one of these experiments,

    我們招募自由派及保守派 來做一個研究,

  • we recruited liberals and conservatives to a study

    他們先讀三篇短論中的一篇,

  • where they read one of three essays

    讀完之後對他們做環境態度調查。

  • before having their environmental attitudes surveyed.

    第一篇短論

  • And the first of these essays

    是比較常見的親環保派文章,

  • was a relatively conventional pro-environmental essay

    運用自由派關懷 及保護不受傷害等價值觀。

  • that invoked the liberal values of care and protection from harm.

    它會像這樣說: 「從很多重要方面來看,

  • It said things like, "In many important ways

    我們都在對生活的地方 造成真正的危害。」

  • we are causing real harm to the places we live in,"

    以及:「我們現在就必須採取步驟,

  • and, "It is essential that we take steps now

    以避免對地球造成進一步的毀壞。」

  • to prevent further destruction from being done to our Earth."

    另外一組參加者

  • Another group of participants

    則被指派閱讀一份截然不同的短論,

  • were assigned to read a really different essay

    專為保守派道德純潔的價值而打造。

  • that was designed to tap into the conservative value of moral purity.

    它也是一份親環保的短論,

  • It was a pro-environmental essay as well,

    而且它是這樣說的:

  • and it said things like,

    「讓我們的森林、飲水及天空 保持純淨是非常重要的。」

  • "Keeping our forests, drinking water, and skies pure is of vital importance."

    「我們應該視

  • "We should regard the pollution

    汙染的居所為可憎之處。」

  • of the places we live in to be disgusting."

    以及:「減少污染可以幫助我們保護

  • And, "Reducing pollution can help us preserve

    我們純潔而美麗的居所。」

  • what is pure and beautiful about the places we live."

    然後我們指派第三組人

  • And then we had a third group

    讀一份與政治無關的短論。

  • that were assigned to read just a nonpolitical essay.

    這只是一個對照組, 讓我們有基準線。

  • It was just a comparison group so we could get a baseline.

    我們發現當我們調查

  • And what we found when we surveyed people

    他們讀過之後的環境態度,

  • about their environmental attitudes afterwards,

    我們發現對自由派, 給他們讀什麼短論不重要。

  • we found that liberals, it didn't matter what essay they read.

    無論如何他們都傾向 高度親環境態度。

  • They tended to have highly pro-environmental attitudes regardless.

    自由派支持環保。

  • Liberals are on board for environmental protection.

    然而保守派人士

  • Conservatives, however,

    會顯著更支持先進的環境政策

  • were significantly more supportive of progressive environmental policies

    及環境保護,

  • and environmental protection

    如果之前讓他們讀的 是道德純潔的短論,

  • if they had read the moral purity essay

    效果會比另外兩篇更好。

  • than if they read one of the other two essays.

    我們甚至發現讀過 道德純潔短論的保守派,

  • We even found that conservatives who read the moral purity essay

    更有可能說他們相信全球暖化

  • were significantly more likely to say that they believed in global warming

    及擔心全球暖化,

  • and were concerned about global warming,

    即使短論中根本沒有提到全球暖化。

  • even though this essay didn't even mention global warming.

    那只是相關的環保議題。

  • That's just a related environmental issue.

    由此可知道德重新框架 效應有多強大。

  • But that's how robust this moral reframing effect was.

    我們已對眾多不同的 政治議題做過同樣的研究。

  • And we've studied this on a whole slew of different political issues.

    所以如果你想促使保守人士

  • So if you want to move conservatives

    更支持同性婚姻或全民健保等議題,

  • on issues like same-sex marriage or national health insurance,

    把這些自由派政治議題 與保守派價值觀,

  • it helps to tie these liberal political issues to conservative values

    如愛國或道德純潔等 連起來會有幫助。

  • like patriotism and moral purity.

    我們對另一邊也做過同樣的研究。

  • And we studied it the other way, too.

    如果你想讓自由派傾右 支持保守派政治議題,

  • If you want to move liberals to the right on conservative policy issues

    如軍費及英文國語化,

  • like military spending and making English the official language of the US,

    你會更具說服力,

  • you're going to be more persuasive

    只要你把這些保守政治議題 與自由派道德價值觀,

  • if you tie those conservative policy issues to liberal moral values

    如平等及公平連在一起。

  • like equality and fairness.

    這些研究都顯示出同樣的明確信息:

  • All these studies have the same clear message:

    如果你想說服某人支持某項政策,

  • if you want to persuade someone on some policy,

    把該項政策與某人的基本道德價值 連結在一起會有幫助。

  • it's helpful to connect that policy to their underlying moral values.

    你可能會說

  • And when you say it like that

    這非常顯而易見,不是嗎?

  • it seems really obvious. Right?

    那我們今天晚上還來做什麼?

  • Like, why did we come here tonight?

    為什麼──

  • Why --

    (笑聲)

  • (Laughter)

    這靠直覺就知道了。

  • It's incredibly intuitive.

    即便如此,這真的很難做到。

  • And even though it is, it's something we really struggle to do.

    你知道嗎,事實是當我們 想說服某人某項政治議題時,

  • You know, it turns out that when we go to persuade somebody on a political issue,

    我們好像在對著鏡子講話。

  • we talk like we're speaking into a mirror.

    我們根本說服不了別人, 如果只重複論述自己的理由,

  • We don't persuade so much as we rehearse our own reasons

    自己相信某項政治立場的原因。

  • for why we believe some sort of political position.

    我們一直在說要設計出 道德重新框架的論述,

  • We kept saying when we were designing these reframed moral arguments,

    你要有同理心及尊重, 同理心及尊重。

  • "Empathy and respect, empathy and respect."

    如果你能帶進這點,

  • If you can tap into that,

    你就能產生關係,

  • you can connect

    你或許就能在這個國家說服某人。

  • and you might be able to persuade somebody in this country.

    所以再想一下

  • So thinking again

    我們是在演哪齣電影,

  • about what movie we're in,

    可能我之前說的太誇張了。

  • maybe I got carried away before.

    可能不是殭屍啟示錄這類的片子。

  • Maybe it's not a zombie apocalypse movie.

    可能比較像警察搭檔片。

  • Maybe instead it's a buddy cop movie.

    (笑聲)

  • (Laughter)

    再忍一下,再撐一下就好。

  • Just roll with it, just go with it please.

    (笑聲)

  • (Laughter)

    你知道這種片,通常有個 白人警察和黑人警察,

  • You know the kind: there's a white cop and a black cop,

    或者一個亂七八糟 和一個一絲不苟的警察。

  • or maybe a messy cop and an organized cop.

    不管什麼組合,他們都處不好,

  • Whatever it is, they don't get along

    因為兩者之間的差別太大。

  • because of this difference.

    但到了最後他們必須一起合作時,

  • But in the end, when they have to come together and they cooperate,

    兩者感到的團結力量更大,

  • the solidarity that they feel,

    因為必須跨越鴻溝,對吧?

  • it's greater because of that gulf that they had to cross. Right?

    要記得在這種電影裡,

  • And remember that in these movies,

    通常第二幕的情況會更糟,

  • it's usually worst in the second act

    主角完全水火不容。

  • when our leads are further apart than ever before.

    或許這正是我們國家現在的寫照。

  • And so maybe that's where we are in this country,

    警探搭檔片第二幕尾聲──

  • late in the second act of a buddy cop movie --

    (笑聲)

  • (Laughter)

    被撕裂成兩半, 但就快要彌合在一起了。

  • torn apart but about to come back together.

    說的好聽,

  • It sounds good,

    但是如果我們真的想讓它實現,

  • but if we want it to happen,

    我想責任就從我們開始。

  • I think the responsibility is going to start with us.

    所以這是我對大家的呼籲:

  • So this is my call to you:

    讓我們把這個國家再結合起來。

  • let's put this country back together.

    就做吧!不管政治人物、

  • Let's do it despite the politicians

    媒體、臉書、推特

  • and the media and Facebook and Twitter

    及選區重劃

  • and Congressional redistricting

    那些東西如何分裂我們。

  • and all of it, all the things that divide us.

    就做吧!因為這是該做的事。

  • Let's do it because it's right.

    就做吧!因為這仇恨和蔑視

  • And let's do it because this hate and contempt

    每天在我們之間流竄著,

  • that flows through all of us every day

    讓我們面目猙獰,腐蝕著我們,

  • makes us ugly and it corrupts us,

    威脅的也正是我們的社會結構。

  • and it threatens the very fabric of our society.

    我們應該給彼此及這個國家

  • We owe it to one another and our country

    伸出友誼之手與嘗試溝通的機會。

  • to reach out and try to connect.

    我們沒有本錢再仇視別人,

  • We can't afford to hate them any longer,

    也沒有本錢讓別人仇視我們。

  • and we can't afford to let them hate us either.

    同理心與尊重。

  • Empathy and respect.

    同理心與尊重。

  • Empathy and respect.

    如果你仔細想想, 至少這是我們欠同胞的。

  • If you think about it, it's the very least that we owe our fellow citizens.

    謝謝。

  • Thank you.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Joanna Pietrulewicz

譯者: Regina Chu 審譯者: SF Huang

Subtitles and vocabulary

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B1 US TED 自由派 保守派 道德 價值觀 政治

【TED】羅伯-威勒:如何進行更好的政治對話(How to have better political conversations | Robb Willer) (【TED】Robb Willer: How to have better political conversations (How to have better political conversations | Robb Willer))

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    Zenn posted on 2021/01/14
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