Oh. Thank you for having me.

And congratulations on, uh,

what we're hoping will be another smash hit, Riot Baby.

Many people have referred to this

as one of your more dystopian,

uh, pieces that you've put together.

You-You've written multiple stories

in and around the world of science fiction.

What is Riot Baby all about?

So, Riot Baby is the story of these two siblings,

Ella and Kev, who grow up

in the shadow of the Rodney King, uh, riots

-in L.A. -Right.

And their story takes them from, you know,

South Central to Harlem

uh, to Rikers and then back to Watts.

And as they grow up, they're dealing with issues

of structural racism, uh, mass incarceration,

police brutality,

all while developing superpowers.

Yes, that seems like a-a lot to handle

as a-- as an adolescent growing up.

-Very charged adolescence, yeah. -Racism

and superpowers at the same time.

-The same time. -It-It's fascinating,

because you-you write these stories,

-and you-you're a big science fiction lover. -Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean? And that's what your stories are about.

But you do weave in real life.

Some might say, "But, Tochi, why do that?

"Real life is already real life.

Why not just make it science fiction?"

Is science fiction the place of social commentary?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think there's a very rich history

in science fiction and fantasy

of exactly that type of social commentary.

I mean, the wonderful thing about the genre

is that it operates, uh, on two levels simultaneously,

-metaphor and reality. -Mm-hmm.

So, you know, the issues are stories

of-of first contact with aliens

are also stories about colonialism.

You know, the X-Men as a metaphor

for the civil rights struggle.

You know, the whole dying Earth subgenre

-of sci-science fiction and fantasy, climate change. -Yes.

And so I think, in science fiction and fantasy,

you have a very particular set of tools at your disposal

to explore really intense issues

-of say gender or race or what have you. -Right.

And so, I mean, this was exactly the type of-of sandpit

that I wanted to engage with these issues in.

Do you find that it-it connects with people

in a way that they're not expecting

when they read about a-a "fictitious" world

that's not really our world

-and-and there's superpowers and there's magic? -Mm.

Do you find it becomes easier for people to engage

in conversations about race and-and, you know,

sexism and misogyny when it is in a "fantasy" world

than if you just write a book about real life?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, because there's that, uh, story.

You know, this isn't an essay.

-This isn't a reported piece. -Yes.

You know, we're not dealing with facts, per se.

But, at the same time, we are, I think,

able to get to a deeper truth

with regards to the storytelling

and the way that storytelling can operate

-as a vehicle into that. -Mm-hmm.

Um, I mean, there are people who, uh, are going to decide

not to have their mind changed by a story.

Um, you know, they should still buy the book.

-(laughter) -Um...

But, uh, you know,

it's-it's a very different way of engaging,

where I could have people who don't share my politics,

-for instance, who, uh, might still find a story -Yes.

-that... -That's interesting.

Exactly. That is appealing to them

in this story of these two siblings with superpowers.

Some have called it dystopian though.

They say, like, "Tochi, I mean, we've read the book."

I've read a few people-- you know, like, a few critics

who say, "It's a great book, but, whew,

Tochi really thinks of this dystopian world."

Do you-- do you view it as dystopian?

No, actually. I mean, there's a-a bit

of near future towards the end of the book,

but I've always found

the dystopian commentary fascinating,

because a lot of what's depicted in Riot Baby

is what's going on now, um,

with regards to the issues

that African Americans in America are having to deal with.

-Mm-hmm. -Uh, you know, the section that's set in Harlem,

where, you know, these two kids are having to deal

with, you know, super violent police,

-that's all happening right now. -Mm-hmm.

And so it's interesting seeing people attach

the dystopian label to this narrative,

because what's dystopian for some

is just reality for us.

Man. That's deep.

If you had one superpower to fight any ill in the world,

-what would it be? -(exhales) Oh, my goodness.

You'd-you'd think I'd have a faster answer to this question,

uh... (laughs)

because of how much I-I deal with superpowers in my stories.

-Yes. -I think it'd be really cool to fly.

-You-you would fly? -I would fly.

So, like, there's, like, racial injustice

-and it's like, "Look! -(laughing)

That guy's flying!"

(applause)

-But... -"I mean...

"we're still getting pulled over by the cops,

"but that, uh...

that brother's in the sky."

-But, but if I.. -(laughs)

if I train properly--

and this is the anime geek in me coming out--

if I train properly, I can develop the strength

and the capacity to carry others on my back.

-Oh... -(awwing)

-That's-- Okay. -(cheering and applause)

I see what you did there.

I see what you did there.

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Riot Baby is a beautiful, fascinating story,

and it's available now. Tochi Onyebuchi, everybody.