It's a serious debate on.

You can see what's happening at the Guardian newspaper, ripping itself apart now between the two camps of feminists on dhe, the transgender community who say they're being anti transgender.

This issue off, for example, women's sport.

We've got the Olympics coming.

You've got a New Zealand weightlifter who lifted as a male in competition, who's now smashing records, having identified as female.

This is where it does get, I think, quite serious for the potential effect it has on women's rights.

Are you happy for anyone born to a male biological body to simply raise their hand without any need for surgery on to compete in the Olympics against women born to V mail biological bodies?

So I'm a huge fan of athletics on dhe.

This has been a really big raging debate because, particularly around the issue of Caster Semenya on dso, I've been following it.

Really Closing on Caster Semenya is that's a different case, but actually there are really, really problematic issues here.

Caster Semenya is not a Tran.

That's Esther.

It No, no, this It is an argument about whether custom aneurysm, a man or a woman on It's been, You know, those documentary about self identifying with male biological bodies saying, I am FEMA now competing against women born to female biological bodies.

That's the debate.

But the point that I'm making is this is that there have been all these issues raised in sport over recent years about who qualifies into which contest is that.

Debate is also raging in relation to disability.

On what level of disability qualifies you to compete in the bright really distracted my question Should should any man or anyone born to a male biological body be able to self identify as a woman without any surgery or any of that transition process, and compete in professional sports against women born to female biological bodies?

That's the number of the debate that is the number of the debate.

What I'm saying to you is there there are broader issues here that Small is gonna have to grapple with about who is allowed to.

We had a trans activist last week, for example, who said she would.

She said she would be happy if you same bold or if Floyd Mayweather.

I spent a year taking testosterone treatment and then competed in the 100 meters, women's Olympics or female boxing.

Now would you be happy for you?

Same Bolt or Floyd Mayweather?

Don't think either of planning to do this, but if they decided to self identifies women and spent a year on testosterone treatment, are you happy for them, as this Trans activist was last week to then compete against women born to female biological bodies?

The point I was trying to make before you cut me off with that, I think there has to be a commission set up in sport to decide what the parameters are of those bolting rules.

I mean, these are rules that are set by sporting bodies or fairies governing bodies damaging to women.

That is my point.

You've got to make sure that it is fair.

You've got to make sure that it's fair for every generation of athletes that comes through.

And it is for sport tohave proper commission to sit down and work out whether about straight commission toe work out.

It wouldn't be right for Floyd Mayweather toe, identify as female and then fight women boxes born to female biological bodies is a commission issue.

It's a common sense issue, isn't it?

You're about to be potential leader, the Labour Party, and you say that this is something that doesn't really matter.

And I think he doesn't think these things through.

Basic question of how you treat people properly in this country on I represent domestic violence.

Victims feel very, very strongly.

The need for safe spaces in this country represent trans people who also are amongst some of the most discriminated against people in this country.

You could send a right.

I will not allow this to become a zero sum battle between two people.

Nor will you give me your support, because why would you make policy about the rules governing sports Sitting on Good morning?

Britain as a Labour leadership contender that just strikes me is the way, wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't you want good flying Britain?

Just tell our viewers whether you think it's fair.

As a trans activist said last week on this program that you same bolt could self identify as female and compete against women born to female because you are Tonto.

Why?

Because you are doing what too many people have done in this in this straight, you've created more heat and less light.

You're setting an example.

It's just simply is an absolute knots, a strong I've asked us you same.

Bolt is not planning to self identify as a woman and running a woman.

That's what we are.

And that's why I say Take three unless you have the sense to be pedantic about where the parameters.

In Connecticut, for example, In America, there are two Trans athletes who were competing as male athletes born to male biological bodies.

Tall, powerful, very fast.

They are now identifying his female on their smashing all Connecticut women's records.

I don't think that it's fair to women's rights on you might be the first female leader presuming you'll still identifying his female of the Labour Party.

And if you are, this is a proper issue about how far the trans rights override women's rights, and I think that your inability to give me a straight up you're not my I am giving a straight answer.

Piers, I'm saying you're not.

Now I'm saying that you're setting up a straw man in this in order to pit one group of people against another let me.

Oh, is no.

Well, let me give you an exact okay.

What about the weight lifter in New Zealand who is wanting to compete in the Olympics as a female weightlifter who previously competed as a male weight lifter born with a male biological body?

Is that right?

That that's why I said to you, we need to set up a commission to consider these issues.

You won't have a commission in time for the Olympics there in three months yet, but this is why sport needs to get together.

Well, it's it's it's, you know, the rules.

It's not fair if there are no rules.

That's why we have to have proper rules.

But the idea that you want to pick one group of people against another I just think this is not good enough.

It does.

You know what?

I think you're good enough.

What you're not doing is giving a straight.

I am giving a stranger.

No, Thio, actually do everything but give us straight on.

I'm sorry because you're worried about the reaction your Honor will cause you no worry out the trampling about well accused of betraying.

I'm worried about what you are doing to some of the most.

What am I doing?

What am I doing?

You are trying to create?

What am I doing?

But trying to defend women's rights from a grotesquely unfair situation where people born to male biological bodies you have an obvious superior strength and power are now being able to simply say I'm female and compete against women born two female bodies.

What am I doing that's so wrong?

You are attacking some of the most marginalized my country.

A false warm.

I mean women.

That's outrageous.

Trans women attacking anyone I know I've always supported transgender rights.

I'm not attacking anybody.

I'm defending women know I'm defending women's rights.

Well, that would be a first to be on.

It wasn't that she had been women's rights a lot on this program.

I'm sorry.

I think this is just outrageous suiting up.

I do groups of people who deserve better against what more could I ask you?

A question about whether they should compete in sport?

No, by by saying that this is a simple issue that doesn't require some careful thought in order to protect two groups of people who frankly deserved better than this basic.

Yeah.

What they needed actually is for people in leadership positions, to be honest and to make proper decisions.

Yes, and that's what What they don't want was asked a question.

Then production.

We need fire.

Less heat, far more light.

And you've just shown exactly why over the last few.

Wow, you.

So we really thinks that is exactly what do you think?

Viewers watching this thing?

I've been attacking transgender people.

Really?

Yeah.

I bet you not one of them things that said it was grotesque, grotesquely unfair to women.

If transgender athletes born to male biological bodies with superior strength and power are able to compete against him in female competition as, say, weightlifters.

Or but that's why you need some proper rules around.

Just a mystery on.

Okay.

All right.

It's unfair.

Not you want to consultation about it?

I think that is.

That is your answer.