MY NEXT GUESTS ARE PULITZER-PRIZE WINNING

JOURNALISTS WHOSE NEW BOOK, "A VERY STABLE GENIUS," IS THE

NUMBER-ONE "NEW YORK TIMES" BESTSELLER.

PLEASE WELCOME PHILIP RUCKER AND CAROL LEONNIG.

♪ ♪ ♪ ( APPLAUSE )

>> Stephen: HI, CAROL!

THANKS SO MUCH.

HEY, PHILLIP.

COME ON UP.

WON'T YOU PLEASE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON THE LIVE NIGHT.

>> WE'RE GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Stephen: OKAY, THE BOOK IS "A VERY STABLE GENIUS."

AS I SAID, IT'S NUMBER ONE ON NONFICTION.

YOU'RE BOTH BONA FIDE TRUMP EXPERTS.

YOU SPENT YEARS RESEARCHING THIS BOOK.

WAS THAT THE STATE OF THE UNION OF ALL EXPECTED?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

I MEAN, HE WAS-- HIS TYPICAL MODE, WHICH IS "I MADE THIS

COUNTRY BETTER.

I MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

I ACCOMPLISHED ALL THESE AMAZING THINGS."

>> Stephen: MADE IT GREATEST, ACTUALLY, GREATEST.

>> BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE.

>> Stephen: STRONGEST UNION OF ALL TIME.

>> AND HE WAS-- HE WAS NOT GOING AFTER HIS ENEMIES AS MUCH AS I

THOUGHT HE MIGHT.

YOU KNOW, HE HAS A THING ABOUT GOING AFTER PEOPLE THAT HE

THINKS ARE ATTACKING HIM, AND HE DID LESS OF THAT TONIGHT.

>> Stephen: THERE WAS-- PEOPLE WERE SAYING THERE WAS A BIT OF A

REALITY SHOW TOUCH TONIGHT, THAT HE AWARD A SCHOLARSHIP, AWARDED

A MEDAL OF FREEDOM, REUNITED A SOLDIER WITH HIS FAMILY.

BUT PLOAS HEHER OWN MOMENT WHEN SHE RIPPED UP THAT SPEECH.

WAS THAT SURPRISING TO YOU, BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT HER

AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP?

>> WELL, LAST YEAR, SHE DID THE CLAP, REMEMBER?

>> Stephen: YES.

>> SO, THIS YEAR SHE RIPPED UP THE SPEECH.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SCENE IN THE BOOK THAT'S REALLY TELLING ABOUT

PELOSI.

EARLY ON IN THE ADMINISTRATION, A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER THE

INAUGURATION, WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS HAVING A RECEPTION AT THE

WHITE HOUSE WITH CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS, HE'S GOING ON ABOUT HOW

THERE WAS VOTER FRAUD, HE REALLY WON THE POPULAR VOTE BECAUSE

THREE TO FIVE MILLION PEOPLE VOTED ILLEGALLY IN CALIFORNIA--

AND THAT WAS NOT TRUE.

PELOSI CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT IT AND STEVE BANNON WHISPERED TO

OTHER ADVISERS, ""SHE'S AN ASSASSIN.

SHE'S A TOTAL ASSASSIN, AND SHE'S GOING TO GET US."

THAT'S THE PELOSI WE SAW TONIGHT, THE ASSASSIN MOVE

RIPPING UP THE SPEECH.

>> Stephen: AND THAT WAS BEHIND HIS BACK.

HE COULDN'T SEE HER DO IT.

THAT WAS A SMART WAY TO DO IT.

HE WILL FIND OUT AFTER WHEN PEOPLE TELL HIM.

>> HE WILL SEE THE CLIPS.

>> Stephen: HE DIDN'T MENTION IMPEACHMENT AT ALL.

>> NO.

>> NO, HE REALLY DIDN'T.

>> Stephen: DIDN'T BRING IT UP.

>> AND PRESIDENT CLINTON DIDN'T BRING IT UP, EITHER.

ONE OF THE THING'S THAT'S INTRIGUING ABOUT THAT IS WE HAVE

SPENT THREE YEARS COVERING THIS PRESIDENT, AND ONE THING HE IS A

MASTER AT, I MEAN, A GENIUS AT-- OUR BOOK IS CALLED "A VERY

STABLE GENIUS--" WHICH IS THIS, CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT, YOU

KNOW, HE'S THE BEST AT-- THE BEST OF HIS OWN LAWYER.

HE'S THE BEST COMMUNICATOR.

HE'S THE BEST... INSTINCT.

HE'S GOT IT ALL.

AND IN THIS INSTANCE, HE DOESN'T MENTION IMPEACHMENT, BECAUSE

WHY?

HE'S-- HE'S BEAT IMPEACHMENT ALREADY.

>> Stephen: HE'S ABOVE IT, LIKELY ACQUITTED TOMORROW.

THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE.

>> HE BEAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL.

>> Stephen: EVERYBODY IS FALLING IN LINE.

ARE OUR CHECKS AND BALANCES BROKEN AT THIS POINT?

>> WE INTERVIEWED MORE THAN 200 ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS FOR

THIS BOOK, ADVISERS TO THE PRESIDENT.

AND A LOT OF THEM TOLD US IN THE INTERVIEWS THAT THEY ARE BROKEN,

THAT THE SYSTEMS ARE NOT WORK THE WAY THEY SHOULD.

THE INSTITUTIONS ARE BEING ERODED AND BEATEN DOWN BY A

PRESIDENT WHO SEES HIMSELF ABOVE ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND WE SAW AFTER THE MUELLER -- >> Stephen: IS THAT THE FAULT

OF THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE CHECKING HIM?

>> THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT ROOM WHO HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO

HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE-- A NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS NOW SAID

THEY'RE GOING TO ACQUIT HIM, BUT THEY THINK WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG

OR IMPROPER OR NOT PROPER, WITH UKRAINE.

>> SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE INTERVIEWED SAID THAT THIS IS

THEIR NUMBER ONE FEAR, IS THAT HE'S LOWERING THE BAR.

THESE ARE REPUBLICANS WHO SPOKE TO US, BROKE THEIR SILENCE FOR

THE FIRST TIME, AND FINALLY SAID TO US, "LOOK, IF YOU'RE GOING TO

WRITE A HISTORY BOOK, I WANT YOU TO GET THE HISTORY RIGHT.

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THE ROOM."

AND THEY'RE GENUINELY CONCERNED THAT NOW IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY

TO USE TWITTER TO GO AFTER ANYBODY WHO TELLS THE TRUTH-- A

CAREER SERVANT LIKE LIEUTENANT COLONEL ALEX VINDMIN.

>> Stephen: WHEN HAS HE BEEN CONSTRAINED BEFORE?

PEOPLE HAVE SAID NOW THAT IMPEACHMENT IS LIKELY TO NOT

HAVE HIM REMOVED FROM OFFICE TOMORROW, NOW HE'LL BE OFF THE

CHAIN.

WHEN HAS HE EVER BEEN ON THE CHAIN?

I DON'T THINK WE'LL SEE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL.

MAYBE FROM HIS FOLLOWERS OR THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIB RAIPTED BY

HIS ACQUITTAL.

I THINK HE'LL BE THE SAME.

>> IN 2017, HE DID HAVE PEOPLE GUIDING AND GUARDING AND

ADVISING HIM AND TRYING TO KEEP HIM IN SOME BOUNDARY.

>> Stephen: THAT WAS THREE YEARS AGO.

>> I KNOW.

THAT GUARDRAIL IS GONE.

THE PRESIDENCY PHIL AND I SEE NOW IS THE PRESIDENCY OF ONE.

THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON MAKING THE DECISIONS AND HE'S USUALLY

BARKING AND BELLOWING THEM.

THE GUARDRAILS THAT TRIED TO GET THE PRESIDENT TO RECOGNIZE THE

LAW, RECOGNIZE THE INSTITUTIONS THAT WE AHEAD DEAR, RECOGNIZE

THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS BLIND.

IT IS NOT A PARTISAN APARATCHIK.

WE HAVE A SCENE IN THE BOOK WHERE HE'S SCREAMING AT THE

TELEVISION, "WHY ISN'T MY F'ING JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DOING

SOMETHING FOR ME."

YOU.

>> Stephen: CALLED THE REPORTS ON HIM REQUESTS

DIZZYING."

WHAT WERE THE MORE DIZZYING MOMENTS?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN CHAOTIC REPORTING ON HIS ADMINISTRATION.

THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO HIT THE PAUSE BUTTON AND DO THIS DEEPER

REPORTING, AND WE WERE SHOCKED BY SOME OF WHAT WE FOUND-- THE

LACK OF KNOWLEDGE HE HAD ABOUT WORLD HISTORY AND AMERICAN

HISTORY.

HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AT PEARL HARBOR, FOR EXAMPLE, HAD

TO ASK HIS CHIEF OF STAFF TO EXPLAIN IT WHEN HE WAS TOURING

THE USS "ARIZONA."

BUT WHEN HE SAT DOWN WITH THE INDIAN PRIME MINISTER, HE SAID,

"IT'S NOT LIKE YOU HAVE CHINA AT YOUR BORDER."

IT'S A LONG BORDER, INDIA AND CHINA.

>> 2,000 MILES.

>> Stephen: WE'VE GOT TO GO BECAUSE WE'RE LIVE.

BUT THE TITLE IS "A VERY STABLE GENIUS."

IS THAT PURELY IRONIC, OR DO YOU THINK HE IS A STABLE GENIUS OR

ANY ONE OF THOSE WORDS?

>> HE CHOSE THIS TITLE BECAUSE IT'S HIS DEFINITION FOR HIMSELF.

HE SAID IT FIVE TIMES NOW.

WHAT WE WANTED TO DO IS HOLD UP THE MIRROR AND TALK TO THE

PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH HIM DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND SEE IF THEY

AGREE.

MOST OF THEM DO NOT.

( LAUGHTER ).

>> Stephen: I'M ONE OF THE MOST.

CAROL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

FILM, NICE TO SEE YOU.

"A VERY STABLE GENIUS" IS AVAILABLE NOW.

PHILIP RUCKER AND CAROL LEONNIG, EVERYBODY!

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.