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  • the world has noted how hard it's been for Harvey Weinstein to tread the sidewalks of Manhattan these past few weeks, but it's not a problem he'll have to worry about in the immediate future.

  • The jury in the trial of the 67 year old spent most of last week considering its verdict, but they wouldn't detain the filmmaker long today.

  • The man who once told showbiz reporters what to print about his movies had one last hello for them.

  • Within a few hours, jurors returned to say he was guilty of raping one time aspiring actress Jessica Man in New York in 2013.

  • He was also convicted of sexually assaulting me Me, Haley, who had been a production assistant on one of his TV projects.

  • Reporters hurried from the court after Weinstein was acquitted of other charges, including the two most serious counts of predatory sexual assault, which carried a possible life sentence.

  • Weinstein himself, however, wasn't going anywhere.

  • Harvey Weinstein is exactly where he should be now behind bars.

  • I think one of the things about today is we will not see Harvey Weinstein come down those steps in his feeble attempts of pretending to be unwell and using a walker.

  • Because he is now in custody, he's been remanded.

  • He awaits sentencing in March by Judge Burke, and today is a significant day because he's helped been held responsible for his actions.

  • Now that the verdict has come back guilty, guilty for Harvey Weinstein, I will say, once again, women were believed.

  • It's a day that Weinsteins accusers feared they'd never see.

  • It's been the most sensational rise and fall a mogul of the old school, a man of money, power and success brought down by his own criminal behavior and the bravery off his victims.

  • All at once, it seemed his image was tarnished.

  • The mogul reviled and mocked as a sexual predator.

  • Weinsteins, British wife, left him after allegations broke of hush money paid to women over his predatory behavior.

  • One woman who said he'd assaulted her made a secret recording in which he appeared to acknowledge a pattern in his actions.

  • If you wantto please just come on, I'm used to that Used to that.

  • Hollywood Stars air among scores of women who have accused Weinstein.

  • The producer acknowledged he'd caused a lot of pain.

  • He was sacked by the board of his company.

  • Despite the mounting number of allegations against him, prosecutors charged him with offenses against only two women when he appeared in court.

  • As his trial finally opened in New York last month, the once swaggering Hollywood tycoon cutter much diminished figure.

  • And not by coincidence, some observers suggested below, the jury was directly concerned with what had happened to two of Weinsteins victims.

  • They also heard details of four other alleged cases too old to prosecute under New York law but suggesting a consistent pattern, prosecutors argued.

  • In a rare act of self effacement, the filmmaker declined to give evidence in his own defense, leaving it to his lawyers to attack the credibility of his accusers.

  • That seems to have been partially successful.

  • From their point of view, though, they're planning an appeal.

  • Maybe the cards were so so stacked against Mr Weinstein before this even started, I don't know.

  • What did he say to you after I'm innocent?

  • I'm innocent.

  • I'm innocent.

  • How could this happen in America?

  • I'm innocent.

  • Manhattan's district attorney saw it differently.

  • Wednesday is a vicious serial sexual predator who used his power to threaten rape, assault, trick, humiliate and silences victims.

  • He has been found guilty of criminal sexual act in the first degree and will face on that count a state prison sentence off no less than five years and up 25 years.

  • He won't be needing it where he's going.

  • Weinstein awaits sentencing next month with the prospect of further proceedings in California on charges of sexual assault.

  • That was Steven Smith here in the studio, the Labour MP and author of Every Woman just Phillips on Zelda Perkins, Harvey Weinstein's former assistant, who confronted Weinstein about the attempted rape of her colleague more than two decades ago and was silence by his lawyers.

  • Zelda imagine the hardest thing I could ask you right now is how you yourself a feeling.

  • So let me instead ask you what you think will be going through his mind.

  • Do you think he will register a sense of guilt at this moment?

  • It's a hard question because I'm not a psychopath, so I don't know really what's going on in his mind.

  • But I would imagine that he's in total denial that this is happening on disbelief because his belief in his innocence is enormous.

  • That's how he's always been able to operate because he never believed that he's doing anything wrong.

  • I don't know if the amount of power that has been lost to him over the last couple of years will have had any deep effect.

  • But I imagine he will be going back regrouping, imagining his next plan of battle.

  • Because I remember you telling me that when you confronted him on a terrace following the attempted rape of your colleague, he swore he hadn't done it on his family's life.

  • And you said you knew then he was lying.

  • Did he convince himself at any point, the sex was consensual?

  • Do you remember how he justified it to you, or was it just obliviousness?

  • I don't think he cared whether it was consensual or not.

  • I don't think he thought about it like that.

  • He only thought about what he wanted.

  • And his focus was always to get submission.

  • Um, on DDE.

  • No, to him was not a word that he understood, and he wouldn't have seen it as somebody's desire to say no.

  • He would have just seen it as an obstacle to remove.

  • Just Does this look like justice being served tonight?

  • It does look like justice, and it feels like Justice and Furs Elder.

  • And for lots of the women who have been involved, I still think that there is a feeling that something's gonna come up where he's gonna get away with it somehow.

  • Like somehow, because that is the story of Harvey Weinstein that is, the story of lots and lots of very powerful men in the whole me to movement or on.

  • What we said in the past couple of years is that there is an industry in place to protect these people, and so what?

  • It does feel like justice.

  • And earlier I was shaking when I had the verdict.

  • I still somehow think they'll have some sort of rub it over half.

  • But for today I shall celebrate that.

  • We can say that Harvey Weinstein is a rapist.

  • You know that industry well, You were silenced with a non disclosure agreement which covered up any attempts to bring him to justice.

  • Any criminal wrongdoing on that industry still there?

  • Harvey might go down for five years, 15 years, 20 years, we don't know yet, but about industry is still alive and kicking on DDE.

  • This is not an end to any sort of problem.

  • So what has changed if the law hasn't actually changed?

  • Has it bean a trial by public opinion?

  • I mean, this is what the judge warned.

  • Don't don't put the whole me to trial into the courtroom, but it has come in.

  • Hasn't well.

  • I think that it would be impossible for any juror or for any anybody to ignore the number.

  • The sheer volume of women coming forward about this specific man about Harvey Weinstein.

  • However, I do think that there has been a change now.

  • No law has changed in the state of New York to make this happen.

  • No law has changed here in response to it.

  • Although every single politician would sit in front of you and say, no, things are changing.

  • This sort of thing can't go on anymore.

  • But actually legislatively, nothing has changed on Dwyer.

  • This no Harvey Weinstein.

  • I find it very hard to believe that the same convictions would be felt in courts across the land that I hear rape cases today.

  • But the sheer volume of people in this case, I think, would always have been difficult to cut to get over.

  • But know that I think that in one part of color for in California they have legislated to end the use of non disclosure agreements in sexual harassment.

  • But that's the only change we've actually seen in the wake of this.

  • Are you shocked?

  • Really disappointed that the two even graver charges the counts that he got off on means that he won't automatically get a life sentence.

  • Look, you know, I I want to see Harvey Weinstein behind bars.

  • I don't understand how he could be found guilty of some and not others, but I wasn't in that courtroom.

  • I do think that we should We should celebrate the charges that have been laid against him and hope that he serves a decent time in prison.

  • Do you think that other women, other people will be emboldened to come forward?

  • Do you think you played a part in this?

  • I hope so.

  • But I'm still very tentative about everything.

  • Because even you know, when I first spoke to you and I broke my non disclosure agreement, I honestly believe that then there'd be an avalanche of other men and women who would feel confident that they could break agreements which were clearly unethical.

  • But there wasn't look at the the reporting in conviction on rape trials in this country.

  • It's gone down, not up.

  • So you know, yes, we're seeing this huge swell in one area, and you know, there's a lot of positive work happening, but the actual academic facts are still a bit confusing.

  • I mean, first of all, I just want to say that I think that's all that absolutely played a role in what happened today and what will happen in the future.

  • It is incredibly brave of her to break her non disclosure agreement, but she is one of very few people who have broken them on, and I have because the penalty is too high and the repercussions, because people do not trust that the power is in their hands to do it.

  • So there was an avalanche with Harvey Weinstein, which gave Zelda an element of cover, even though it was still incredibly difficult to do.

  • But I am still.

  • I am still being sent stories on accounts by people who have been up against very powerful, very famous, very political people, who still, when I say you, you we could give you cover to release your non disclosure.

  • They still are like I absolutely can't do it.

  • It will come back worse on May.

  • Then it will on that considers of power, because I get approached by I've bean approach now by hundreds of people with, you know, with agreements with people that we all know when we go back to the law on the way these case Iran.

  • Weinstein's lawyer, defense lawyer Donora to know, was asked if she'd ever seen a survivor victim off abuse.

  • And she said she would never have put herself into a position of being sexually assaulted on when discussing sex.

  • She suggested consent forms should be signed.

  • Your response.

  • I mean, I think that she was being needlessly provocative in defense of the indefensible.

  • However, um, what she portrayed and actually it's sort of bravery and the willingness to say it is actually an attitude that lots of people have still, that women put themselves in harm's way.

  • That women and this was very much part of the Weinstein case carry on relationships, whether that's work or or personal relationships with a person who has abused them, and that is always used against them, and that goes back I'm afraid to just a ridiculous myth about the idea that most rape happens in a dark alley by a stranger.

  • Lots of people are wrecked by their husband, and they stay married to them.

  • So the idea that we are still idiots still permissible in court to use those arguments.

  • It's both stupid and unethical.

  • And if someone came to you and said, This isn't a Weinstein, this isn't a big media mogul, there's no groundswell.

  • But I think I should speak out.

  • Knowing what you've bean through and knowing how complicated that wars, Would you be able to say Yes, you'll you'll feel better.

  • Your life will be better for it for breaking an nd a breaking Andy a breaking and a no.

  • I can't advise people that because I can't I had public interest protection.

  • I have me to that groundswell protection.

  • I can't say honestly, toe a woman who comes to me and says, I want to break my nd a.

  • I can't advise her to do it without the caveat that it could end badly because the law has not changed.

  • Thank you very much.

  • Thank you.

  • In a world where less than 1% of all sexual predators of convicted.

  • Today's ruling stands out as a landmark moment, one that took thousands of hours of painstaking testimony and some of the biggest names in show biz to make its mark.

  • Tonight.

  • Perhaps the focus is on wine scene, but this is not the story of a single predator on a string of his victims.

  • It's about what goes on to a greater or lesser extent across many places of work in many parts of the world.

  • On almost any given day, the ability for the powerful to act with impunity.

  • The Fall from Grace of Harvey Weinstein is a story news nighters followed closely from the beginning.

  • In 2017 the actress Emma Thompson told us of the shadow Weinstein had cast over the world of film.

  • I don't think you could describe it was a sex addict.

  • He's a predator that's different.

  • He's a zit.

  • Were the top of the ladder off is a system off harassment on dhe belittling and bullying.

  • And if everyone is talking about Harvey Weinstein right now and you've suggested there are probably plenty of others who are guilty of pretty similar behavior while people coming up about the others.

  • Perhaps the more of us who say this is endemic.

  • Let's just say it's endemic, you know?

  • And I just said, I've been, you know, I spent my twenties trying to get old men's tongues out of my mouth, you know, because they would just thought, Well, she's up for it s o.

  • I would imagine that that happens really very regularly.

  • And so perhaps this is a moment when we can say two men on dhe women open your eyes and open your mouths.

  • Say something.

  • Later, in 2017 Weinsteins, former personal assistant Zelda Perkins broke her non disclosure agreement with her former boss to conduct her first TV interview with me.

  • He was a master manipulator, and he, you know, his moods change very quickly.

  • And you never knew whether you were you know, his confidence or whether you were going to be screamed out.

  • I had one morning on.

  • I have to say that woman really saved my my my honor because actually being warned is very important because the armed you on dhe all she had said to me with always sitting in an armchair, don't ever sit on the sofa next to him and always keep your puffy jacket on.

  • Dhe there were no more than that, but actually, it was an incredibly important and good piece of advice because it meant that I waas ready.

  • Actually, when he did stop behaving badly in November last year, Perkins joined Newsnight again alongside Rowena to, ah, former Weinstein assistant to accuse the movie mogul of attempting to rape her.

  • You escaped.

  • You fled the room.

  • What do you think made him let you go?

  • There was a sense that I was a slow boiling frog on certain things happened on the first night.

  • But I was back the second night and things got progressively worse on the second night.

  • But I'm pretty sure he was in it for the long game, not super long.

  • But there would be 1/3 night in a force night on this particular trip.

  • And I think eventually I was permitted to leave because it wasa as I mentioned part of a game and that there would be another part to this game.

  • Shortly after the announcement in May 2018 that Weinstein was to be charged, we spoke to Rose MacGowan.

  • The actress was one of the first to accuse Weinstein of rape in 2017.

  • We all know what's going on right, and there are different levels of predation, for sure, but the rot at the top.

  • That's what needs to be solved because we've all worked in those places.

  • Weinstein has denied the claims made by Chew on Dhe McGann.

  • The me to movement gained traction around the arrest of Weinstein.

  • The movement itself is much older, started by an African American woman to Rana Burke a full decade earlier in 2006.

  • Not a woman's movement, she clarified, but a survivor's movement.

  • So has the movements now got lift off Toronto.

  • Burke joins me from New York on From A We're joined by Kim Masters, editor at large of the Hollywood reporter who knew Weinstein through her work as a journalist.

  • There, Toronto Let me begin with you because it began with you that phrase.

  • Me, too.

  • Is what, 15 years old now, How does this verdict feel tonight?

  • You know, I feel a lot of things.

  • I feel really grateful that the people who the women who came forward and testified until their stories see something as a result for it.

  • I feel grateful that we can claim this as, um ah, moment that that was very necessary for so many survivors.

  • And I am also really clear that we have so much more work to do.

  • And if the movement doesn't rest on this verdict because you think there is a danger, people now assume the jobs done.

  • Yeah, I think there's there's this sort of feeling that this is what we were working toward, and this is just one thing that happens in the whole spectrum of things that need to happen to advance us towards ending sexual violence.

  • Kim, do you share that?

  • Do you think this feels like a scalp?

  • A victory rather than a wider message?

  • It was hugely important for the world to see Harvey Weinstein and handcuffs.

  • I think if that had not happened, it would have been a crushing blow for a lot of people.

  • But I agree completely that, uh, the work is not done.

  • I mean, there's a sous step.

  • There's for Harvey with such an extreme case.

  • It was such an extreme, you know, over 100 women coming forward.

  • There are people with fewer.

  • There are still a whole cultures of misogyny in this industry, where addressing that addressing the system's not just of, ah, harassment and sexual violence, but equal opportunity and representation.

  • There's so much work to be done in that respect.

  • You knew Weinstein through your work.

  • Does this tally did what you hear during the trial tally with your own memories off him, your encounters?

  • Well, yes.

  • You know, I met him for the first time 20 years ago, and he asked what I had heard about him.

  • It was an off the record lunch, and I said, I've heard you rape women, and he didn't exactly deny it.

  • And so for the next 20 years, we were considering how intermittently How can we get that story?

  • I don't think it was gettable until his power started to diminish.

  • And I think people within his own company helped to bring this about.

  • Honestly, if the truth were told, I know he believes that.

  • So, yes, this is who we thought he was.

  • And this is how he turns out to be.

  • And the image of him saying I'm innocent and how could this happen in America is such a perfect narcissist reaction to this conviction that it is just what you would expect.

  • I'm sorry.

  • I'm grappling with that to run a wonder what what you make of it That a man who was confronted with questions that his reputation as a rapist preceded him two decades ago wouldn't be worried about that.

  • Well, why would he be worried?

  • He was surrounded with so much power and so much privilege privilege.

  • And he was in the middle of a system that protected him from so much so I could imagine, with that much arrogance and that much power, that he wouldn't be worried.

  • Do you think, Kim, there is it.

  • You know we don't normally see this.

  • Is there a problem with the way we cover Hollywood's?

  • It sounds like you confronted him straightaway, but quite often on the showbiz beat, there are questions you can ask.

  • There are contacts that you will lose.

  • There is a lot of silence bought and paid for with in the movie industry.

  • Listen, I've made my reputation by asking those questions and and going forward, no matter what we've.

  • We've had several stories that terminated the careers of very powerful men in Hollywood, and I hope Zelda Perkins, who was so courageous, knows that there was an explosion at the Hollywood Reporter and other publications and a a number of people were were brought publicly to account, and I think that does have an impact.

  • So that is the upside of the whole thing.

  • And I do think that this also emboldened other press in this industry to be more aggressive.

  • But yes, you're right.

  • There has been a track record in the past of a lot of back scratching.

  • I never wanted a part of it, and I know I've never done it.

  • Tehran It was interesting hearing Zelda say she used your movement.

  • She used me to as cover to be able to break her own and d a, but that she wouldn't recommend it to any woman coming forward now, because you you know, you're quite often not believed.

  • So she thought it didn't.

  • Nothing has changed really in the law.

  • Well, this is thing you These laws are very narrow.

  • There's a lot of conversation about why he wasn't convicted on the other three charges, and that has a lot to do with how narrow the laws are and how little they cover in the reality of what happens during when people experienced sexual violence.

  • So I understand her being cautious and when it's a caution of the women about the price that they have to pay because ultimately the price falls on the head of the survivor were the ones who have to make the sacrifices.

  • And we're the ones who carry the brunt and the weight of things that happen when it all comes out.

  • It's a survivor, often time that loses and catch destroyed into the sticks.

  • So I understand her wanting to caution people to be very careful.

  • But I also know that this movement has provided community for people in ways that we've never seen before.

  • And they know that when they come forward that they're not alone.

  • That they're doing that in community with millions of other people have had similar experiences, and I wonder what you both feel.

  • I'll start with you, Kim.

  • That something has changed in that verdict, which is the recognition by a jury that consent or consensual sex is a very messy, complicated concepts.

  • It's not black and white, and it can't be reduced to how you go along with something because it's fundamentally about power.

  • I mean, that doesn't like me very wrong.

  • I read me very wrong that to see the Manhattan D A.

  • Take a victory lap when he did not pursue Harvey Weinstein for years but to give them their due.

  • I do believe the prosecutors in this case were able to educate the jury somewhat, saying that rape, as was mentioned earlier, is not this TV version of an assault in a dark alley.

  • And it's complicated.

  • And so I think that maybe of the main advance from this whole exercise, and that makes it complicated for men, doesn't it?

  • Toronto who aren't sure whether they've had consensual sex or no, I don't think consent is complicated.

  • I think that we have.

  • There are there's a spectrum that we have to look at.

  • But I think that consent in and of itself is not a complicated concept.

  • And when we tried it, when we make it messy and complicated, we get to places like where we are now.

  • There are very clear ways to get consent from people who you want to be intimate with the whole you and intimate relationships with, and people need to exercise that.

  • But More importantly, they need to know that you can revoke consent as well.

  • So a lot of this is about getting consent.

  • But a lot of it is about the fact that we're regardless of where you are in an intimate situation.

  • Everybody has the right to revoke consent.

  • He's not.

  • These don't have to be complicated issues.

  • If we would talk about them head on and really unpacked where people have issues, that's, um that's a big issue.

  • Takes us to a whole new place.

  • But thank you both very much indeed.

  • Thank you.

the world has noted how hard it's been for Harvey Weinstein to tread the sidewalks of Manhattan these past few weeks, but it's not a problem he'll have to worry about in the immediate future.

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