that has gotten many, many, many people talking,

critics loving it, saying it-it's a beautiful new way

to talk about a story

that everybody wants to be talking about right now.

Interior Chinatown.

-It's a novel. -Yes.

But when you read it, it's basically written

-like a screenplay. -Right.

Wh-Why did you do that?

Uh, I work in Hollywood, so I already had the software.

-So I just-- It was easier. -(laughs)

Um, you know, it's, I think, a lot

of what you were talking about in the previous segment.

-Stories, um, resonate with people. -Right.

And movies and TV really do.

And, um, I wanted to tell the story that way

also because of the-- what the story's about,

which is a-a character, Willis Wu.

Right. It's interesting that you--

that you-you make it so simple,

because that's really what it is.

It's a story about a character, Willis Wu,

who is a man who just dreams of making it big on the big screen.

-Right. -And what's-what's beautiful

and what resonates in the book is it talks about the challenges

that he faces and so many Asian Americans and Asians in America

have faced with being represented onscreen

in a way that is not boiled down to stereotypes.

Right. Yeah, I mean, it's, um, h-his dream.

So, Will-- To-- Willis' story is basically that he--

his job is to be Generic Asian Man

on a show called Black and White.

And, um-- So, you know, everyone's seen Law & Order,

and you have the two leads in the front

and they're discussing the case.

And way in the back, pretty much out of focus,

is, like, an Asian guy unloading a van.

-Right. -(laughter)

I was like, "What if you told the story

-"from that guy's point-of-view -Uh-huh.

-in the Law & Order univor-- universe?" -Right.

And-and I-- and I started to get interested in this world

and exploring the world, because the view from the bottom

looks different than the view

from where the leads are standing.

-It-it really is powerful, because... -(applause)

you...

you talk about in this book one man's journey,

but-but, really, a lot of this book

deals with how Asians have been pushed to the side in America

in a lot of storytelling, you know?

Some-some people have argued though

that-that Asians have it good though, because they go, like,

"Oh, at least Asian people have

"the model minority thing to them,

"so they-they're seen as less threatening

and they're given more opportunities."

But-but you have a different view on that idea.

Yeah, uh, absolutely.

I think, you know,

the model minority is just sort of the age-old strategy

-of divide, you know, divide and conquer. -Mm-hmm.

And holding one group up justifies holding a group apart.

And it's not just you're, sort of, saying Asians have it good.

You're kind of showing the other groups you could do it, too.

-Right? -Right, right.

And also, the fact is there are plenty of Asians

-who have not succeeded. -Right.

You know, there are, the-the characters in this book

are struggling economically,

they're struggling to assimilate culturally.

And I, and that's a story that we don't see as often.

We see... in the media, stories about Asian succ--

Asian American success, but not always this story.

In this book, is, um, is a character who dreams

of just getting to play the lead in a kung fu film.

That's-that's what he's dreaming of doing.

Interestingly enough, though, and-and I mean, I get why

the character's doing it, that's one of the things that you say,

like, always broke your heart in the smallest way,

when you'll be watching TV with your family,

is you'd look up when you saw an Asian person on screen.

You'd be like, "Wow, that's amazing."

And then they would always distilled into, like,

a few categories... like, why do you think

that that affected you so much, especially with your children?

Right, yeah, I mean, that...

that's exactly what's happening now

is that I'm a dad and I'm, my kids are old enough

that we watch stories together.

And sort of, I had made peace with being, you know,

-watching Asians on the side. -Mm-hmm.

But now, they're old enough that I have to turn and explain

to them, you know, why is that guy doing a funny accent?

-Right. -You know, or why-why is that person

squinting their eyes and playing an Asian on TV?

And you know, there has been a lot of progress.

We see stories about Asians, but...

we still don't see enough, and we don't... I don't...

I wanted to be able to, you know, explain to them.

So, I had to kind of work through it in this book.

And you know, for instance, I was recently watching

the Golden Globes and I watched Awkwafina get that award,

-and my daughter was sitting next to me. -Right.

And it was, like, I felt uplifted.

And so did she, and I could see in her eyes

that this was something that we'd both remember.

And at the same time, we see things on TV

where you sort of can't believe that that's still on TV

-in the year 2020, so... -Right.

Yeah, it-it's a really fun story, you know, that I love.

It-it moves, it's fast-paced.

It feels like you're watching a movie in a movie,

which is really fun, and, uh, it talks about something

that I think we all need to be talking about more.

So, thank you so much for being on the show.

-Congratulations on writing a fantastic book. -Thank you.

Interior Chinatown is available now.

Charles Yu, everybody.