I'm Krishnan, Guru Murthy, and this is the podcast in which we talked to extraordinary people about the big ideas in their lives.

On the events that have helped shape Thumb.

My guest this week is Judy Smith, who is a crisis manager extraordinaire.

A fixer, a woman who has handled everybody from President George Bush, senior to Monica Lewinsky, to modern day celebrities.

She's the woman his company you call when you're in trouble, I guess.

Welcome to D.

Smith.

Thank you.

Does that make your mission to cover up the bad stuff?

But no, actually, I I know what people think of crisis, right?

Like who were, You know, we're hiding something, but really, it's it's it's not the case.

Honestly, um, I enjoy a lot about crisis management and, um, often times, you know, you find yourselves in situations where you know people can be at a very rough spot in their lives, and so the ability to help them navigate that right and figure out a strategy and a and a plan to walk through that path that's of that's our honor because you've written for ordinary people as well, haven't you?

In terms of applying your ways of doing things?

Yeah.

I mean, what's really good would I have enjoyed about the work is that we've had a really good cross section.

I've had an opportunity to work with heads of states to work with CEOs to work with celebrities and worked with a whole host of, uh, you know, everyday people that just have issues that come up in their lives.

So how have you?

Life is complicated, right?

And I'm assuming that you won't be able to talk to me about any of the people you work.

There's no point asking you about pushing on Louis in all those things is your job is not to tell me, but, I mean, how have you got There is the question.

I mean, where did you come from?

What was your childhood?

Ah, childhood.

Um, let's see a group in Washington, D c.

Family of five.

And, um, you're very very, uh, tighten it.

Um, it was interesting for it from me because we grew up, um, in a situation where we didn't have a lot, right.

And so, um, I just remember my, um, parents one time I said I needed a pair of tennis shoes, right?

And so of course I wanted I don't know, something some big, you know, designer at the time tennis shoe.

And they said, Oh, we can't afford that.

And I said, Oh, okay.

I was really crushed.

And I said, Well, that's okay.

I don't I'm just going to save upon Lenny until I could get that you whatever that was.

But, um, they really just growing up poor really helped.

I mean, I remember when, um, my mom would take me with her after work.

She had two jobs and three, actually, and she would take me after work, and I would help her clean toilets in the at night.

And I would say, Oh, my God, why do I have to go clean toilets?

You know, nobody else's school does that.

I never said that again to in my entire life.

Got straight very, very quickly on that very quickly.

How did she say you strengthen?

Um, because early on it is not about what um other people do or what other people are.

It is about who you are in what's important, right?

And, um for her doing what she did each day of her life.

It is the work that she does.

It doesn't define what her core values are as a person.

And, um, also taught me a CZ.

Well, is that, you know, people put out perceptions, but oftentimes, as we know in our business, it is not the reality.

And so, um, I learned a lot from my parents.

You know, the value of honesty and integrity and, uh, heart work.

And, um, it shouldn't be judged on the kind of work that you do.

Um, but how you do your work.

And you were in Washington D c Oh, yeah.

Went thio school in Washington, D.

C.

When thio Catholic school growing up, I saw one of my, uh, teachers Ah, a while back.

And I had said that you were responsible for me not wearing Platt like you will never see me and blue plaid burgundy play out because, you know, I wore uniforms all by, uh, you know, all my life.

But I got to talk.

What was Washington like then?

When you were growing up?

I guess in the sixties seventies now.

Yes, very different than they out, Um, had a reputation as a city.

It was It was a little dangerous and a lot more crime ridden in the pool.

Yes, Yes, it is today.

Yeah, it Wasit was for sure for sure.

Um, I also think to that, um, you know, just given where we are a cz ah, country, I think Washington, but just across the board just feels more polarized, right?

More divisive than than ever.

Um, and it certainly wasn't, You know, like that.

You know, growing up.

I remember when, um, you could just, you know, you can run outside, other kids, come out and you play.

You didn't have a sense of Oh, I can't play with that person because they look like this Or, you know, their status and life is there was this or their religion is that and And I just think in the time in place that we, um, are in that it feels like there's so much that divide us instead of uniting us.

You think that is all happening now?

Do that Kids growing up today in those areas don't feel as free as you did.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, no, I mean, just think about basic stuff.

We were laughing about this the other day.

It, uh, it worked.

When I was growing up, there was no such thing as scheduling a play date, right?

I mean, I get it.

Everybody schedules and people if are out.

And so you have to, um you have to do that.

But I remember Ah, this was actually ah, a few months ago.

We were at a family dinner, and, um, one of my little nieces and nephews about nine was talking about a kid, too.

Um, I was teased at school because she was Muslim in the kinds of clothes that she was wearing.

It's cool.

That never happened.

Were right Now what do you think has happened now?

Um, I think you know, it's there's so much going on in the in the country.

I think there's, um, Maur, uh and Maur talk that I think, uh, in insights it and say is that it's OK this was actually on local news in Washington.

There, Um, I think they're, um I can't remember the store, but there was a line, Let's say, was the supermarket right?

A woman was in the supermarket and was buying groceries and another woman was behind her.

And I guess the woman wasn't moving her cart up fast enough.

This woman behind her ran the grocery cart into her, her body and, um pushed her and people were just like what happened.

And the woman just burst out and said, uh, you need to go back to your country.

You shouldn't be here anyway.

Go by grocery.

Some other place because she wasn't moving a cart fast enough.

The move up to pay the bill at the cashier.

I mean, I never experienced any of that when I was a child.

But how so how How conscious were you of being a black family?

You know how How much was that possibility?

Well, we grew.

I mean, it's it's a part of who I am, no doubt.

Yes.

And you know something I'm very proud of.

Um, it was never, never part of it in the sense that I experience.

You know what this woman experience in the, you know, in the in the grocery store, we brought up to think that there would be obstacles in your life because you were black.

I was brought up to think that I am smart and, uh, uh capable, then can handle anything and that you should base it on that right and not base it on outer things.

Now, if you're saying, um that, you know, as we go through the world, you know, being an African American woman is it's it's who I am.

It's certainly part of my identity, for sure.

Yeah, but you So you grew up in a modest home in Washington.

Were you aware that, you know, off this other side of Washington that you would eventually go and work in the White House, the center of power?

You know, what was the gap between that and where you Yeah.

I mean, I was aware of it, but honestly, I didn't really think about it.

I remember when I went thio go work at the White House for President Bush.

Right.

And, uh, I remember talking at first to the to the you know, the original person was interview him, and I said So you guys don't you want to make sure that you guys understand this?

There's a lot of Smith's.

Maybe you got the wrong Smith like, you know, that we have no muddy.

I didn't give Thio.

Anybody actually don't know anybody in the in the in the white House, And, um, they were all very clear on that.

Great.

And, um, what was very interesting about it was the answer was yes.

No, we understand that, uh, you're good at what you do.

So we want you to come in for interview because you went since depress.

Yeah, that was That was president.

Ah, deputy press secretary.

So how did you get that job?

Did you apply for it?

Were traditional.

I didn't.

I mean, that's why you know, my my kids, I'm sure you're probably sick of hearing this, but there is some for me.

Anyway, I've learned this, um, value in, um, just doing the work and working, working hard and and concentrating on that so that you develop expertise and you feel good about what you do, and you are competent, and you really, really good at it.

And so, um, how I got the job at the White House was they received four recommendations.

They called him, said, Hey, I'm looking for a deputy press secretary who you think is good.

And so the same four people gave my name and it wasn't.

I had no connections at the White House.

I mean, think about it.

What are the odds of a poor African American girl from Northeast Washington?

D c goingto work in the White House, right?

And so So what were you doing about time prior to the White House?

I worked at the U.

S.

Attorney's office.

Um, and I was foreign prosecutor and did you know, legal work and communications work?

And then after that, um, when thio go work, um, with the Iran Contra investigation, President Reagan, it was exchanging arms for hostages.

And, um ah, and worked on and and worked on that.

And so, actually, when I was at the U.

S.

Attorney's office, I was working on a, um case and got a call and say it, Would you be interested in coming over to the White House and and talking about working in the White House?

And honestly, I thought it was a joke when I got the call, because I have ah, ah, good friend.

And I thought that she was playing a prank on me once.

But he called from the White House and said, I want you to come in and talk to the president about, you know, working.

It was deputy press secretary.

I'm like, Oh, sure you do.

Sure.

You doing?

Ah, hung the phone up, right?

Because I thought it was a joke joke, and they had called back and said the same thing.

I said, What?

This is really the White House.

Tell me what the oval looks like, which is the dumbest thing in the world, right, because you can see it on TV.

And then I felt incredibly stupid, and, um, I, uh, went in for interview, and I actually didn't think I got the job because it was a very frank discussion about policies and practices and that kind of stuff.

And, uh, call me back the next day and interviewed with the president, and he said, What do you do in the rest of the day and nothing, sir.

And, um, he said, Come, go with me.

And we walked through the at the door in a soft south lawn and jumped into Marine one and then from Air Force One.

And, you know, I was, of course, trying not to have a panic attack like I got a Marine 10 no.

What?

Air Force?

What?

Um, and we just talked the whole time.

It didn't have anything to do with policies.

And any of that is just a conversation about life.

And what do you care about?

Um, you know how you grew up and what do you want to do?

That was it.

And by the time we got back to the White House at 10 or 11 o'clock that night, he said, I want to hire her.

That is how it has a job at the hands.

So it's where you political.

It's warm.

When were you even a Republican?

I'm not.

I'm really anybody who tells you who knows me knows that I am really not a political ah person.

And it wasn't it was not based on politics, which is I go back to my theme of working hard and doing a good job.

It was totally based on totally based on that and the thing I would also say, and you'll understand this is people.

It should not be afraid to take a risk, because I can't really say that my life has been some big strategy or plan.

Um but, um how I got the job with the pregnancy President Reagan, independent counsel.

The investigation was I was actually all set to go take another job in New York.