J: which is how I start my videos. A: OK... OK.

J: So you go "Hello,"

J: and then "lovely" A: "Lovely"?

J: "People" A: "People..."

A: Did I do it? J: Yes.

A: Hello... J: Hello, lovely people

A: I messed up! There's too much pressure! OK.

J: Hello, lovely people.

A: I did it! Both: Yay!

J: I am joined by the amazing Ash Hardell

who has been one of my faves for a while

A: Ohh, likewise!

J: So I'm fangirling a bit inside A: I'm fanpersoning

A: A lot! It's mutual.

J: Also, you have some of the best eyebrows I've ever seen.

A: I don't do anything to 'em!

J: And we're gonna talk today about

people not being too afraid to talk to us.

J: People are so afraid that they'll say the wrong things

about disabilities, deafness,

and trans issues

that they just don't say anything

A: It's an issue J: And so we're gonna try and help

J: And be like, "Here's something you could say instead, maybe?"

A: Yeah!

A: And hopefully build your confidence a little bit J: Yes.

And make it seem less scary to talk to us, 'cause I really like questions

A: Even if there're some faux pas in the questions.

A: I like curiosity, I like questions, and I

I like those way more than, like, uncomfortable avoidance

A: That's what makes me uncomfortable.

I'd rather have you ask your awkward question, than just--

I'm not silly, I can pick up on when you're like

'Ooo, you freak me out, I'm just gonna walk away!'

Also! I don't know everything

about deafness and disability, so I might accidentally,

like, make a mistake in this video

J: No, and I know like this--everything I know about trans issues comes from your videos.

J: And Chase A: Yeah, and if you mess up, I'm gonna expose you

and ruin your YouTube career, but...

I'm just kidding! No!

J: Thanks hun, thanks!

A: We're gonna extend each other some compassion J: Yes

A: and we've like set that as an expectation before entering this conversation.

J: Yes.

J: I would rather someone had really good intentions

and wanted to say something nice to me, but accidentally used some bad words

Than if they are using incredibly, wonderfully PC language,

and they're just being a bit of a dick.

A: Yes, I... Have you ever heard of...there's political correctness and then there's emotional correctness.

J: Oo, no.

A: So, emotional correctness is kind of what you're just explaining.

It's just like having good intentions and like

tapping into the other person's humanity.

A: So, yeah, I also value emotional correctness over like

some asshole being 'politically correct'

J: The thing that comes up for me a lot is...it happens a lot with older people.

A: OK. J: The way that I dress is very old fashioned,

A: Sure! J: which older people like, a lot.

A: OK. J: So they love to come over and talk to me about it...

It's really heartbreaking when old men come over and they're like,

"You look just like my wife did."

A: Oohh, no!

J: "I lost her..." "Oh, sir!" A: Yeah!

J: Generally, people will come over and they'll say things along the lines of like...

"Oh, you're too beautiful to be in a wheelchair!" [drum rimshot]

And you're like, "..."

A: I'm having trouble even processing how those two things go together

J: Mmm. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A: I'm actually at a loss for words for this

J: It's slightly similar to the, 'you're too beautiful to be gay...'

A: Right. J: But that's kind of more of an insult.

J: "You're too beautiful to be disabled," they think is a compliment.

A: Yeah, it's not a compliment, though... J: No.

A: If we strip out all the awkwardness

and just the parts that aren't great

what were they trying to communicate to you?

J: They're just trying to tell me that I'm pretty. A: OK!

J: In some way sympathise with the fact that I have a disability

J: So, the intention is just...

'You look lovely! Having a disability must be hard, though.'

A: Right. J: So I try to hear that.

A: What's the right thing they should have said?

J: Maybe...just that I'm pretty? A: Yeah? Right? Yeah!

A: You could stop it there like...

J: Just a--just a...

A: "I like your dress!"

J: Or, equally, "It's a shame."

J: Hear that one a lot.

A: Not a shame, though!

J: So, like, "Aww, you're so beautiful! It's a shame about those crutches, though."

A: You could just leave that one off?

J: I mean, it's not a shame

J: because they help me to get somewhere! A: Right!

A: Do you ever take those moments and like...

make them teachable moments?

J: No. Never. A: Hahaha!

J: I know! Do you feel like I should?

A: Um - oh, I think that's totally up to you.

I don't wanna give anybody a responsibility, like,

"You are responsible to teach these people who clearly don't know how to speak"

A: That's like a thing that

A: I am kind of trying to navigate right now. J: OK

A: When someone says something to me

that isn't great, I'm trying to speak up more

and kind of make it a teachable moment

because....

for a few reasons:

A: 1. I'm just getting tired of like letting it happen

2. Maybe they can learn something

A: Maybe they'll walk away from it better

J: And then the next non-binary person that they meet, they'll not say that

A: Right

[Jessica's voice]

A: I want to acknowledge that

A: not everyone has the energy to educate and teach. J: Yes.

A: So, if you don't want to,

that's totally on you and you don't have to do it!

J: What are the comments that you get quite often?

A: So for like...top surgery,

I get, like, "Why would you wanna do that to yourself?"

A: What I think they're asking, if I'm being nice, is like...

'I've never met anyone like this before, and I don't quite understand it...

Would you help me understand why you feel this way?'

J: They're trying to be nice by going, 'But you're lovely just the way you are, dear.'

A: Yeah. Uh huh. And then they don't realise that

when they say that, it, y'know, pressures me into doing something I don't wanna do

and they're kind of taking away agency of my body.

[Jessica's voice]

A: Just because it doesn't make sense for you

for me to get top surgery doesn't mean I'm not allowed to do it.

This is my body!

J: And they're potentially not connecting that this part of your body

has to do with your mental health.

A: Yeah, they definitely view it as like cosmetic,

when it's not.

A: So, when I tell people who I am,

or when they ask a question and then I kind of have to out myself as non-binary,

I get a lot of

"Oh, I just don't get that. I just--I don't... I just don't."

A: It becomes apparent that

it's too much for them; they're uncomfortable, and they kind of wanna just move on.

J: People are rude.

A: Yeah...

A: Yeah.

J: But then do you also get-- [laughing]

do you also get people who have absolutely the best intentions,

but are a bit like, "Um...'she,' 'her,' 'they,' er, 'he,' er..."?

A: I'm cis-passing.

A: So, 'cis-passing' means, like...

It just means like not visibly trans.

A: So, the only time that somebody, like, makes a mistake

is when we're actually having a conversation about being non-binary.

J: Oh, OK.

A: Nobody just comes up to me and says, like, "You look androgynous, what's that about?"

A: Or anything like that...

[Jessica's voice]

J: When I was...first got really ill, when I was seventeen,

and a few weeks after I got diagnosed,

I went to a fair,

and I went to go and use the toilet

J: I don't need to qualify that...

J: I'm allowed to use the disabled toilets. A: Yeah.

J: And I came out and there was a lady standing there with children.

And she went, "Ugh!"

"Not disabled OR with children, then?!"

J: And it just like cut me to my core.

A: Sure. Mmhm.

J: I think I just like

cried and walked away.

It sounds weird but I kind of hope someone does that again to me one day.

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah! What would you say? J: So I can be like, "Well, actually...!"

"I have an invisible disability; it's like this, this, and this..."

"Did you know there are a variety of people who have a variety of conditions that may need to use this toilet?"

"It isn't always immediately obvious."

"You shouldn't be teaching your children to be so prejudiced."

A: Yeah!

A: Actually, though, that's what I was saying when I was trying to talk about those teachable moments.

A: They're scary, right?

A: Because you're, like--you feel horrible. That person just ripped you down.

Now that I'm a little bit of a stronger person

and I've been dealing with some like transphobic things more and more.

I feel like I have a thicker skin.

A: And I'm trying to take those moments, and be brave and be like,

"Well...meow, meow, meow, meow, meow."

That way they can learn and grow and be different

And I think that if anybody has the strength to do that, it makes a difference and they should.

J: You obviously have that a lot on the internet, as well.

A: Yeah.

J: So, the other day, I made this video about LGBTQ+ Sign Language.

British Sign Language.

And then I made some GIFs from it and then I put it on Twitter

A: Right.

J: And oh, my God! I had included gender non-binary

J: and just the hate... A: Yeah.

J: that that got!

J: I got so, so upset that people think they can come in

and take away someone's identity

and try and invalidate a part of someone.

A: If you've never talked about non-binary things on your channel before - have you?

J: No. A: OK, well...

J: This video's gonna be fun.

A: It can be hit or miss

when I collab with someone before who's never talked about these things on their channel.

A: It's really hard to know

how your audience feels about it if you've never kind of

dipped your toes in the waters before.

A: So, you might get some hate in the comments.

A lot of people might not think I'm real - hey, how's it going?

A: I am real. I know you don't think I'm real. I see you, but...

but this makes me happy and it's just my truth, so...I don't know what to tell ya.

So hopefully your audience is open...

J: My people are lovely people.

J: It's just the random others A: Uh huh. On Twitter?

J: who I feel like search the internet for things that make them angry.

A: OK.

J: I think there must be people who do that, right? A: Yes!

A: For sure. Oh, yeah.

A: There are whole channels devoted to making video responses;

ripping apart people like me. Did you know that? J: Yes.

A: Yeah. You--OK, yeah, of course. Yeah.

A: Angry looking for things to be more angry about so they can make money off being angry...

J: I don't think any of us have the right to go into someone else's space and make them unhappy, really.

To take a part of someone and say, "Oh, I know you think you feel this way, but...I don't think so."

A: Yeah, "I don't think you feel this way" - what? J: I think it's about... It's you...

A: I agree. I'm with ya.

A: Yeah. At this point I've just decided kind of to live and let live

They're gonna keep existing and...so am I!

J: Well, you should, 'cause you're awesome. A: Aw, thank you!

J: We should move on to some actually good advice

for people who do want to say the right thing

and they just get scared about it.

A: Yeah.

A: I think it's a really neat show of vulnerability when you just admit that you don't know much