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  • - Hello, everyone, welcome to the Khan Academy

  • Daily Homeroom livestream.

  • For those of y'all who are new to this.

  • This is our way of staying connected

  • in times of school closures.

  • Obviously Khan Academy is a not for profit

  • with a mission of providing a free world class education

  • for anyone, anywhere.

  • Over the last many years, we've been building resources

  • in math, the sciences, English and language arts,

  • the social sciences, to help you feel supported,

  • whether you're a student

  • who's learning outside of the classroom,

  • or whether you're a teacher trying to support students

  • in the classroom, differentiating instruction, et cetera.

  • But when we saw the school closures happen,

  • we realized that we have a fairly unique role to play,

  • to help keep people learning to support

  • all of you as parents, as teachers and as students.

  • And as part of that,

  • beyond just putting the resources out

  • that we've already had.

  • And the calendars, the schedules, the learning plans,

  • we've been running parent and teacher webinars.

  • We also wanted to do this

  • as just a way to answer questions,

  • feel connected and bring on some really interesting guests

  • who can give us more perspective on

  • how do we keep learning and the world as a whole.

  • And we have a really great guest

  • I'm going to introduce in a little bit.

  • I do like to remind everyone,

  • Khan Academy is a not for profit,

  • we only can exist through philanthropic donations

  • from folks like yourself,

  • I want to give a special shout out to several corporations

  • that have stepped up in the last few weeks

  • to to help our COVID response.

  • We were already running at a deficit before this.

  • And now we're seeing our traffic at about two to three ex

  • of what it typically is

  • and we're trying to actually accelerate

  • a lot of programs and do new things.

  • So special thanks to Bank of America, AT&T, Google.org,

  • Fastly and Novartis for making that happen.

  • With that, I'm excited to introduce our guest,

  • Laura Overdeck.

  • Laura, there's a lot of different,

  • many interesting things to talk about with Laura, today.

  • One of is, you know I have to thank Laura

  • she's a longtime supporter of Khan Academy.

  • She makes a lot of what we're able to do possible

  • hopefully all of you are able to enjoy.

  • And Laura, I don't know if I'm hearing,

  • I'm hearing like my own voice through...

  • Oh, it's fine I'll just power through it.

  • - I'm hearing an echo too, but...

  • - Okay, anything we can do to, on the echo side.

  • - You know what, let me, I'm gonna try one thing.

  • - That got rid of the echo.

  • - Is that a little better?

  • - That's a lot better.

  • It's still going on a little bit in the background,

  • but we'll power through this.

  • Anyway, as I was introducing Laura.

  • Laura has been a longtime supporter of Khan Academy,

  • through the Overdeck Family Foundation

  • we definitely sent her positive karma

  • for making all of this possible.

  • But also to this conversation.

  • Laura is the founder of Bedtime Math and Fun Factor.

  • And Bedtime Math and Fun Factor are very relevant

  • even before COVID crisis.

  • But I think in this crisis when a lot of kids

  • are learning from home and parents

  • are trying to figure out what are enriching activities

  • to do with them that are that more relevant.

  • So Laura, thanks for joining us.

  • I hope you and your family are doing all right

  • in these crazy times.

  • Tell us all a little bit about Bedtime Math

  • and now this new project, Fun Factor.

  • - Sure, so we...

  • Bedtime Math I started about eight years ago,

  • it really is truly one of those things

  • that started in the garage,

  • except it was in the bedroom,

  • although not that kind of bedroom, a kid's bedroom.

  • But basically, my husband and I

  • would read our kids a bedtime story

  • and then almost without thinking about it,

  • we'd give them a fun math problem

  • just something we'd make up on the fly.

  • And when we started sharing these

  • with other people, it grew really fast.

  • And I think that's because people

  • were very hungry for math to be fun.

  • And also to be real life for kids.

  • You know, a lot of times we take math

  • and try to make it fun.

  • At Bedtime Math, we find the thing

  • that's already fun for kids,

  • and then find the math in it

  • and that's a very different way of thinking about it.

  • Once we started that,

  • we have an app, we have a website,

  • the math problem goes out every day.

  • We also started an after school math club

  • called Crazy Eights, with hands on games.

  • And what's happened with this crisis

  • is we're actually now adapting those games

  • for teachers to use with their students from afar.

  • And that's what Fun Factor is.

  • That's our new initiative.

  • - And make that a little more tangible.

  • What age groups is this appropriate for?

  • I guess, you could say skill levels and what is it like?

  • Are these the standard math problems

  • that you might see as part of your curriculum?

  • Are they that plus other things?

  • - Yeah, so it really started off because

  • it was parallel with reading a bedtime story.

  • It's really for those ages

  • when you would read a book to kids.

  • So we say ages two to nine

  • two sounds aggressive, but it's not.

  • It's just that's our mentality

  • that people are like, "Ooh, math is tedious and dry."

  • It's not math is wonderful.

  • And you can totally start with a two year old,

  • which is what we did with our kids.

  • And the math problems are pretty different in spirit

  • from what you would find in a textbook,

  • because of course, we can talk about whatever we want.

  • We write them about pillow forts, ninjas, drafts,

  • chocolate chips, just stuff that kids love.

  • And then there will be three or four levels of questions

  • about what we just talked about.

  • And those range from like a Pre-K level question.

  • That might be, you know, giraffes or brown,

  • find three brown things in the room,

  • all the way up to third graders

  • doing multiplication and logic problems.

  • - I have to give a testimonial

  • I've been using you obviously

  • through you I learned about Bedtime Math

  • near the beginning, you know,

  • many many years ago and my oldest who's now 11.

  • I was using it with him when he was five, six, seven

  • years old and he definitely enjoyed it.

  • And I, you know, then used it with my daughter

  • and I'm using it now with my youngest,

  • so a personal testimonial for that.

  • You know, taking it one step above that,

  • you know, you are, given all of your focus and energy

  • and education generally and on Bedtime Math

  • and Crazy Eights and Fun Factor.

  • You know, I think you have a good lens

  • on how do parents deal with this type of situation,

  • especially with younger kids.

  • A lot of parents are worried

  • that maybe my kids aren't learning enough.

  • What advice do you have?

  • I know you have, your kids are a little bit older now.

  • But what advice do you have

  • for parents trying to deal with this scenario?

  • - So I would say this crisis has really,

  • I think shone a bright light on a lot of things

  • with education and we should

  • absolutely take advantage of it.

  • So one thing is that with kids now home

  • and liberated from their classroom,

  • you can see your child, where they're stuck

  • and where they're really flying.

  • And that's something that when kids

  • are all together with their classmates in our school system,

  • which mostly, unfortunately,

  • is fairly lockstep everybody does

  • chapter three on September 28th,

  • everybody does chapter four,

  • on October 2nd.

  • Kids have gaps.

  • And I know you've talked about this so much

  • the Swiss cheese learning where kids

  • have their own particular holes that didn't get filled.

  • Now that everybody's home, and they have more time,

  • 'cause you're not in transit on a bus, between classes.

  • There's a real opportunity for parents

  • and kids to figure out where they could use more practice.

  • And there are so many resources out there

  • and of course, Khan Academy, I mean, likewise,

  • my kids of all use Khan Academy, we use it to learn things,

  • you can fill in any topic that you wanna learn more about.

  • And I just think that when I really look at what's going on

  • in our education system, we've really pushed kids through

  • when they are not ready for the next topic,

  • when they haven't mastered

  • and where I've seen this most acutely is,

  • I actually tutor in our women's state prison

  • here in New Jersey.

  • And the insiders, it's women who have a high school degree

  • and they wanna get their associates.

  • And I'm working on pre algebra with them.

  • I mean, someone's given them a high school diploma,

  • signifying that they have this mastery, and they don't.

  • And it's not right that we do that.

  • It's because they've been moved along

  • without anybody filling those gaps.

  • What's interesting is these women are so motivated

  • because of course, they've now got a double whammy.

  • They know it's going to be hard to get a job,

  • when they get out.

  • They've got another strike against them.

  • But when I sit with them, they do learn

  • so they didn't fall through the cracks

  • 'cause they couldn't learn out.

  • They fell through the cracks

  • 'cause there's something in our system

  • not filling those gaps.

  • And I'm hoping that with this crisis,

  • we can really tackle that.

  • - No that's incredible.

  • And Laura, I'm getting a message

  • from the tech team, you might have to tabs open

  • that are on Facebook or YouTube.

  • And so they're getting the live stream.

  • So they're saying if you could close all of your tabs

  • that are not this one,

  • that might be where the echo is coming from.

  • And I'll give a message while Laura is figuring out

  • if that is the case.

  • For any of y'all with questions.

  • We're seeing questions come on YouTube,

  • ask Laura and I anything

  • and we have team members who are looking at them.

  • And we're going to surface them.

  • And actually, I'll start with a question from YouTube.

  • And that did help.

  • Thanks, Laura.

  • So this is from YouTube. Nekeil Govender asks,

  • asks us both, but I'm more curious about your answer.

  • I'm happy to give a little bit as well.

  • "What was your inspiration to help others

  • "in terms of education?"

  • And I guess you know, why focus on education

  • of all the things in the world?

  • - Well, again, this was not terribly premeditated.

  • When we started Bedtime Math.

  • We were just kinda doing this for fun with our kids.

  • But when we shared the math problems,

  • what happened first is basically

  • there are a lot of hyper competitive parents in my town

  • and they wanted to know what we were doing with our kids.

  • So I started sharing the math problems to people.

  • And I was stunned at how these college educated parents,

  • many of them Ivy League, were so nervous

  • that I hadn't put the answers to the questions.

  • And they'd say to me, "I know five plus two is seven,

  • "but I feel better if you put the answer at the bottom,"

  • because initially, I didn't put the answers.

  • And, you know, it just really was a wake up call

  • about what math anxiety is out there.

  • You know, we have a country of people

  • who are nervous about calculating the tip.

  • And this includes high school grads, college grads,

  • they're nervous about the tip,

  • and that is a fourth and fifth grade math skill,

  • as you well know.

  • It's not that hard, and I truly believe everybody can do it.

  • And we have to get there

  • because I think when you talk about the fall of an empire,

  • I mean, we're doing a lot of things wrong in this country,

  • but having people afraid of fourth grade math

  • is not helping.

  • So it just really lit a fire under me to get out there

  • and see if I could move the needle on this.

  • - Now, that makes me think about two things.

  • One is there is just this so many people's brains

  • just something happened to them, trauma,

  • something where math they just shut down.

  • I mean, your example of, you know, Ivy League grads,

  • wanting the comfort of an answer to a, you know,

  • first grade, or kindergarten type problem.

  • And just for any of y'all who think that tip calculation

  • is just valuable for calculating tips, which it is,

  • you know, this is actually an interview question.

  • We used to use a Khan Academy

  • for a lot of entry level jobs where we just said,

  • we just give a little word problem

  • you in five friends go to a restaurant,

  • you all order this, this, this,

  • you wanna pay the right amount of tip,

  • someone pays this amount, how much should you pay?

  • Or how much change should there be?

  • And you'd be surprised how many people

  • with college degrees had trouble answering those questions.

  • So you might see this in an interview question.

  • And I'll just add to Laura, you know,

  • if you think about education,

  • it's just a single leverage point

  • that I think builds on everything else, you know,

  • human capital is the ultimate capital

  • and if we can let that grow it'll go to positive uses.

  • If you don't, not only will it atrophy,

  • but it could go in a negative direction.

  • So that's my two cents.

  • So from YouTube, Gina Guzman asks

  • "A question for Laura,

  • "according to different home realities,

  • "what is the most suitable schedule

  • "for distance learning?"

  • So yeah, what advice would you have?

  • - Oh, I mean, I just think

  • that we have all been thrown into a situation

  • we were not anticipating.

  • And I feel particularly for

  • kids in grades K through two,

  • where it is very hard for them

  • first to focus for very long on a computer.

  • Secondly, even to use the computer

  • to touch the mouse to click on the wrong window by accident,

  • their teacher disappears.

  • We find when we practice our games

  • with our staffs, kindergartners, it's very different.

  • The parents end up being very involved

  • and that is really a strain on a family

  • where the parents are working.

  • It's also a strain.

  • I know there's a lot of talk about

  • clearly the inequity where

  • kids don't have a device at home or Wi-Fi,

  • you have to add in then all the people

  • where there is a device in the home,

  • but everybody needs it, there're multiple kids,

  • or there's a parent working from home.

  • So I think as far as what works for schedule,

  • I think you have every scenario out there.

  • As a start, though, it seems to me the kids

  • hit the ground running in the morning,

  • it is much harder to engage after lunch during food coma.

  • And I think also that it's really

  • emotionally healthy for kids to see

  • their guide, their teacher, if possible,

  • in the morning at the start of the day, even if it's brief.

  • And then from there, get their structure for the day

  • and move from there.

  • I don't know if that fully answers the question.

  • But I also think we don't even really know all the answers

  • because there's just so many scenarios out there

  • and it's really challenging.

  • - Yeah, I think that's consistency we're seeing.

  • I mean, what we're telling very consistent,

  • we're saying, hey, just gets started

  • even if you're able to do 20 minutes, 30 minutes a day

  • of math reading, maybe writing.

  • That's a start and students won't atrophy.

  • And that I think lowers the stress level.

  • And then you can layer on more.

  • We've, you know, we've published schedules

  • and things like that as well.

  • But I think you're exactly right.

  • It depends on your circumstance.

  • And this is a time where people

  • definitely should not put more stress on themselves

  • if they can avoid it.

  • So no one should beat up on themselves.

  • - And I was just gonna add one more point

  • that's kind of related, which is,

  • I think the fact that we're not,

  • kids are not with their teachers

  • is making us more aware of how powerful that is.

  • Tools like Khan Academy and all the resources out there

  • that enable kids to personalize their work

  • are incredibly important.

  • But we still need to pair a human with it,

  • like teachers should never worry

  • that any of this is gonna make us

  • not have teachers in the future.

  • I think teachers are incredibly important

  • and a piece of research, I was so struck by

  • is work out of the University of Washington I-LABS,

  • where they do MRIs of babies

  • they've put, they've created a helmet

  • that you put on the baby's head.

  • And they use math to do motion correction.

  • And you can watch the baby's brain while things happen.

  • And it turns out if you touch a baby's hand,

  • or the baby's mom's hand, while mom is sitting there,

  • Certain parts of the brain light up, if you show the baby,

  • a video of her mom, with her hand being touched,

  • those parts don't light up.

  • We really do react differently,

  • and in a much more powerful way

  • when we're with people physically.

  • And so I mean, I'm looking forward to the end of this

  • and everybody getting back to school

  • because I think that

  • that's such an important part of education.

  • I'm also hoping though, that we find a way

  • to pair that with the liberation I was talking about earlier

  • of having kids really see what they need to be working on

  • and what they need to master.

  • - That's fascinating.

  • I think it's a super worth triply underlining,

  • I think all of us.

  • We always knew the power of teachers and the work they did,

  • but I think this is all driven our empathy,

  • much, much higher for the amazing work

  • they do with our children and sometimes

  • how hard it can be.

  • And I actually wanna make sure I understand that

  • that was fascinating.

  • You said, obviously, you would expect

  • that if the child's own hand gets touched

  • that would light up parts of their brain.

  • But you're saying if their parent is in their presence

  • or their mother's in their presence,

  • and someone touched the mother's hand,

  • that would light up the brain.

  • - Yes, it's mind blowing, because it shows

  • that infants even a few hours after birth, have empathy.

  • I mean, they don't know what a hand is.

  • They don't know that that's their hand.

  • And the mom, like they don't know that

  • that hand matches their hand

  • that it's the corresponding point.

  • And yet, when you touch the mom's hand, it lights up.

  • I think it's just incredible research.

  • And they're continuing to do more on this

  • out of I-LABS at University of Washington,

  • but I think it just has so many implications

  • for how you want a blended learning package

  • where you have the content

  • where a kid can really work on their own,

  • but you definitely want a human in the picture too.

  • And we want the best of worlds.

  • - Absolutely and we have a couple of questions,

  • which I think is interesting,

  • especially considering your background, Laura.

  • From um, we have a question from Nekeil.

  • Actually, again from YouTube,

  • "Sal and Laura, what made you interested in mathematics?"

  • And then for Aditya is asking,

  • "How do you make children interested in math?"

  • And I'd love to connect that to your background

  • you are, if I remember an astrophysicist by training.

  • - I am.

  • - So what got you interested in math?

  • - So, you know, I look back at this

  • and I think the thing is that when I was a kid,

  • I had a mom and a dad who loved math

  • and just worked it into the day.

  • Math didn't feel like a separate subject

  • like I never got flashcards or worksheets at home.

  • My parents both had hobbies

  • and really would do those with me.

  • So my mom is an amazing cook.

  • And she had me very early on measuring with teaspoons

  • and tablespoons and fractions

  • and you just get really fluent in fractions

  • very, you know a lot earlier than you do in school.

  • And then my dad does a lot of carpentry.

  • And he had me using unsafe power tools

  • at a very young age.

  • And you know what, if you don't wanna take off your thumb,

  • you better know what a 16th of an inch is.

  • And you're really, you know, using fractions there too,

  • as well as tying it with very physical, tangible objects.

  • And I think that's part of it too is for me,

  • math was always tangible.

  • I'm a very visual and kinetic learner

  • as opposed to auditory.

  • And that really has led us to do what we do at Bedtime Math,

  • where now we have these hands on games.

  • And I see how kids who don't necessarily learn

  • from hearing a lecture, move things around on the table

  • and see it in a completely different way.

  • And that's what Fun Factor is.

  • So we're now every Monday and Wednesday

  • running a live a live webinar

  • where teachers can get on and find out

  • how to do these games with their students.

  • But families can get on too

  • I mean, it's just open for anybody

  • who'd like to see.

  • But it's really to bring the hands on object

  • back in to pair with the other forms of learning

  • 'cause kids have different styles of learning.

  • - No, that's fascinating.

  • It sounds like a fun household to grow.

  • I agree, I was actually doing

  • some baking with my kids recently.

  • And, you know, as soon as you go off the recipe,

  • and it's like,

  • 'We're gonna make a two thirds portion of this,"

  • the math, the fraction math becomes very, very real.

  • And like, we like to do half the sugar

  • and it definitely starts hitting you.

  • And I'd love to follow up a little bit more

  • on your background.

  • I mean, what what got you into astrophysics in particular?

  • I'm guessing from that period

  • where you were doing fractions with your mom and dad

  • to going into astrophysics.

  • There's a lot more Math, I think you must've gotten excited

  • explain that, what got you interested?

  • It is a topic I love as well, but...

  • - Yeah, well actually, I would say for quite a while

  • through elementary and middle school.

  • I really thought of myself as a math kid.

  • I loved math.

  • I liked playing with numbers on the side.

  • Looking at patterns and perfect squares,

  • and I was really into numbers in a very abstract way.

  • But then I took physics junior year,

  • and just fell in love with it

  • 'cause my teacher, Dr. Stoneback was hysterical.

  • And also just really willing to off road

  • willing to take our questions

  • and just throw out the lesson plan

  • and experiment with whatever we were asking about.

  • And I just loved the class.

  • And then that summer I got to go to Governor School,

  • which is a program that's in many states

  • and I went for the sciences and took an astronomy class

  • and was just blown away by it

  • and, and fell in love with it.

  • And I'd always loved the night sky and been curious,

  • but it kind of all came together

  • when I learned more about how it all works.

  • So that was...

  • And I should note that actually...

  • So what's interesting is when I was a junior,

  • that was the year The Challenger blew up,

  • and that was a very emotional thing to see happen,

  • but it really drove home for me.

  • What an amazing thing these people were going

  • to go try to do,

  • I've always just been fascinated by that.

  • And for a while I wanted to be an astronaut,

  • but I have lazy eye, which is not correctable.

  • So I can't be a pilot.

  • And at the time very few people were Mission Specialists.

  • So to go on and get the PhD and hope to be an astronaut,

  • it just seemed like not a terribly likely path.

  • So sadly, I did not pursue it.

  • But I am so excited

  • that we are hopefully gonna have recreational space travel

  • for all of us in the next few years.

  • That's what I'm hoping for.

  • - Yeah, no space is definitely one of the topics

  • that I'm fascinated and my astronaut dreams

  • I squashed them myself.

  • Once I realized how claustrophobic I am.

  • I do not have the right stuff, so to speak.

  • But I wanna discover.

  • I wanna know what we discover

  • as we learn more about the universe

  • and travel to other places

  • and I'll just throw out you know,

  • my own quick response for that math.

  • You know, when you really just peel the envelope

  • of understanding reality, math is the purest way

  • of understanding reality.

  • Everything else has a layer of our senses

  • and our mental models that we construct.

  • But math is so pure.

  • And you know, I've said this other times,

  • if we ever have to communicate with another alien life form,

  • you know, staying on the space theme,

  • the way that we could actually probably communicate

  • that each of us are intelligent

  • is probably through math,

  • I don't know if we'll be able to

  • communicate well beyond that,

  • but we can at least say,

  • "Look, no, we're thinking,

  • "look, here's some prime numbers."

  • - Yeah and I should note, also, just one point from that

  • was that I hit a point

  • where math connected with something

  • that I fell in love with.

  • And I think when we talk about what helps kids love math,

  • seeing the real life application,

  • seeing exciting jobs that use math, you know,

  • kids are so into video games,

  • all that programming behind the scenes,

  • there's a ton of math in there

  • and, you know, just connecting the dots like that for kids,

  • I think is really important.

  • I was lucky to have that.

  • - One interesting question.

  • You know, I saw this with my cousin, Nadia when I,

  • you know, this is kind of the famous

  • how Khan Academy started.

  • She was 12 years old, she had trouble in math.

  • And I remember even when I started tutoring her, you know,

  • this was back in 2004.

  • You know, she had already convinced herself,

  • "I'm not good at math, math is not my thing."

  • I suspect that some of it has to do with gender stereotypes,

  • maybe messages she got from the broader world.

  • Clearly, that did not happen to you.

  • Why do you think that does happen?

  • And how, if you're a parent, and I do believe,

  • especially in that middle school age,

  • that's when people start to perceive themselves.

  • I'm a math person or I'm this type of person

  • or I'm not that type of person.

  • What advice do you have for parents

  • to kinda, to deprogram that that social programming?

  • - Yeah, there is so much it is such a systemic problem

  • coming from all angles, and especially with girls.

  • I think that, you know,

  • I think it's simpler than we sometimes make it.

  • It's really important to taste victory.

  • And to have another person validate that for you

  • and say, "You know, you are really good."

  • It's funny because I've never had math anxiety

  • and always loved math, but my equivalent, I would say,

  • was gym anxiety when I was a kid

  • because I had skipped a grade.

  • So I was young, and I was also small for my age.

  • And I did ballet, I was very dainty.

  • I was not remotely athletic.

  • And in gym when they'd go to pick teams over and over,

  • I was always picked last,

  • Then I would do badly because of course,

  • I wasn't confident, that would validate for everybody.

  • Yep, you wanna pick her last.

  • And this went on for years.

  • And it was terribly humiliating.

  • I mean, this was painful.

  • And then in ninth grade, we did presidential fitness.

  • And one of the events is the high jump

  • and thanks to my springiness from ballet,

  • I beat the whole grade in the high jump

  • never having done it.

  • And the gym teacher who till then thought it was a loser

  • said to me, "Oh my gosh,

  • "we need you on the track and field team get out there."

  • And that was just life changing.

  • I went and I ended up being a hurdler.

  • I never would have done that if I hadn't had a moment

  • where I actually succeeded at something,

  • and to have the adults say, "No, you're not imagining that

  • "you really did it."

  • So I thought a lot about

  • how do we bring this to math?

  • Because I think math anxiety is so similar, you know,

  • Sian Beilock, who's done amazing studies

  • on the neuroscience behind all this

  • has shown that when, if you're afraid of math,

  • when you do math problems,

  • that fear actually blocks your working memory,

  • and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

  • So, you know, it's really important

  • to feel confident with math.

  • But this also gets back to giving kids

  • the right challenge to be working on

  • so they do master it.

  • And that's why you don't want those Swiss cheese holes

  • in the learning, right?

  • You wanna figure out, what do kids need to fill in,

  • have them work at it.

  • And it might mean going back to kindergarten

  • and starting with the really basic stuff.

  • This is what we do with our math problem.

  • Every little fun story about ninjas or flamingos

  • kicks off with a Pre-K question.

  • And I think having kids go to the beginning do that.

  • And it's like "Yeah, you got that see?"

  • Okay, let's do the little kid question.

  • "You know how to count to five, see, you've got this,"

  • and working on up, kids need to taste victory.

  • And I think that really it is as simple as that,

  • that that turns it around.

  • - I love that because, you know,

  • when you're going through your stories of your life

  • and me reflect a little bit on my stories,

  • and I think you're right, you know,

  • early on, I had probably a little bit

  • of communication anxiety.

  • I was actually in speech therapy when I was very young.

  • And I didn't, and I was very shy, and actually,

  • I'm still more introverted than most people suspect.

  • I'm good at acting.

  • I like being with people.

  • Actually, I really like conversations like this.

  • I don't like cocktail parties where you know,

  • you have to make small talk and then move on to the next

  • and you kind of have to move into someone else.

  • That's not, that I'd rather just hide in the bathroom.

  • But the but you're right.

  • I mean, those times that I got

  • my aperture open about times about myself,

  • maybe I can communicate,

  • maybe I could be a good writer,

  • was when I did something

  • and someone gave that positive feedback.

  • And I knew it was authentic.

  • It wasn't just, they were just trying to make me feel good.

  • But that did feed on itself.

  • - It does and then it becomes true.

  • It really does.

  • - Something there.

  • And so, when we have these good conversations

  • time goes by super fast.

  • But I think we have time for a few more questions.

  • So from YouTube Esi Sanchez,

  • "A question for Miss Overdeck.

  • "What is it like knowing something from a kid's bedroom

  • "became so big."

  • You know, so they're talking about Bedtime Math.

  • And I guess I'll add to that question,

  • what advice do you have for folks, you know,

  • both your narrative and my narrative,

  • Khan Academy and Bedtime Math,

  • these all started from family projects, very organic,

  • but something happened in your mind, in my mind,

  • so like maybe even more people could benefit from this.

  • So what advice would you have for other folks

  • to kind of solve big problems like that?

  • - Yeah, so as far as how it feels, you know,

  • it really took off very fast.

  • I started sharing math problems with families in our town.

  • And the list grew really fast,

  • people started telling other people about it.

  • But I got hit by lightning,

  • The New York Times reviewed my blog

  • about a month after I started it.

  • That just isn't fair, right?

  • And so that brought in thousands of people.

  • And it then grew very fast.

  • On the other hand, I am a math person,

  • I'm always looking at the zeros on the ends of the numbers.

  • And I know that there are 25 million kids in our country

  • in Bedtime Math's target market,

  • and we don't have anywhere near

  • we do not have enough of those zeros.

  • So it's big, and yet it's small,

  • it's really hard to move the needle.

  • I guess we've had over a quarter million downloads

  • of our app, but that's 1% of the market.

  • So I wake, that gets me out of bed every morning

  • thinking about how to get it to more people.

  • And as far as like, what clicked

  • and, you know, again, it was actually external people

  • because it was other people saying,

  • "Hey, what are you doing?"

  • I mean, it's not too different from the gym teacher saying,

  • "Hey, wait a minute.

  • "Look what you're doing, go do that bigger."

  • You know, I think that the more we encourage each other

  • and unfortunately, you know,

  • we don't always have opportunities to do this

  • or don't do it as much as we should.

  • But when we encourage others,

  • I think we don't even realize the massive impact

  • we might be having at that moment without realizing it

  • 'cause it can actually steer people's trajectory completely.

  • - And one interesting you just made a small comment, like,

  • you know, "I got struck by lightning,"

  • implying that you know, you got lucky in New York Times,

  • but I think there's something there,

  • which is, in order to get struck by that lightning,

  • you have to build a bit of a lightning rod

  • and obviously, literally,

  • I don't want any of the lightning rods

  • to get struck by lightning but figuratively,

  • by putting that out there.

  • Yes, you wouldn't want to...

  • Invent it incidentally, by Benjamin Franklin.

  • He doesn't get enough credit, I think as a scientist,

  • but anyway, but you don't.

  • A lot of things, you can't put in a strategic plan

  • that the New York Times will write about us on this date,

  • and same thing similar things happen in Khan Academy.

  • But the fact that you took it as a family project,

  • you allowed that feedback,

  • you started scaling it up.

  • And then it was there to be discovered, I think,

  • is a interesting layer there.

  • - Yeah and to that point, 'cause I totally agree with you,

  • you'd have to just take your thing

  • and get out there with it and see what happens.

  • And this reminds me of another point,

  • which is that you are not looking for perfection,

  • when you do that, waiting for your thing to be perfect.

  • You will never get it out there.

  • There's a great book called Lean Startup.

  • It's one of my favorite books

  • and they talk about minimum viable product.

  • You take basic idea,

  • don't put a whole lot of effort to it,

  • just come up with what it is.

  • Put it out there and let the market say to you,

  • "You know, we love that.

  • "But could you make it purple?

  • "Or could you make it twice the size

  • "or could you deliver it faster."

  • Or whatever it is, and all our growth at Bedtime Math

  • a lot of it has been from people giving us that feedback.

  • And of course for you,

  • I know you were doing your videos for your cousin.

  • And I'm sure you were just kind of

  • whipping those together for her

  • and then look at what has happened.

  • I mean, it's the exact same thing.

  • If you'd waited for them to be perfect,

  • and frankly, they were close to perfect already,

  • but if you wait for them to be perfect,

  • it might have never happened.

  • And I think a lot of times

  • people feel a little bit of paralysis

  • and it's better to just take the risk

  • and take the thing 80%, 90% done and just get out there.

  • - Yeah and I'll add to that,

  • I think there might be an element that sometimes

  • what you think is perfect is less perfect

  • than the thing that's more authentic and a little raw.

  • I mean, you know, that's why I kind of nodded my head

  • when you said, you know, the Khan Academy videos,

  • they still have a little bit of that,

  • you know, I still make it here at this desk right here

  • with this microphone.

  • And there's still these hand drawn things.

  • We've improved it a reasonable bit,

  • but I think if someone had given me you know,

  • a large grant from the government

  • or if I was working for a large publisher 15 years ago

  • and said make math videos,

  • I would have fallen into the trap

  • that a lot of people have

  • with making these fairly well produced things,

  • but they read like, you know,

  • "Welcome to the next step in quad factoring quadratics,"

  • it feels like it GPS device

  • and people don't connect with it

  • and there's an authenticity around

  • sometimes the 80% solution so, 100% agree with you.

  • So maybe finish on one question

  • 'cause you just talked about this paralysis

  • of sometimes when people wanna do anything

  • they want the perfect becomes the enemy of the good.

  • Niashu on YouTube asks,

  • "What's the trick for not getting afraid

  • "of the word math?

  • "I mean how to overcome the problem,

  • "especially when preparing for some entrance exam,"

  • like for I guess in their situation, the GMAT.

  • What advice I mean,

  • you're someone who's never had math anxiety.

  • Do you empathize with that

  • and what advice do you have

  • and I'm happy to give my two cents as well.

  • - You know, I do empathize

  • because I mean math is a four letter word unfortunately

  • for a lot of people

  • and I've seen this and I've had fans email in

  • and just talk about this with their kids.

  • So I think there are a couple things

  • one is expanding what we think math is

  • For instance there's a lot of spatial stuff in math,

  • spatial relations, rotation of objects,

  • that's all math too.

  • And a lot of people, that's a different part of the brain.

  • And a lot of people are good at that,

  • and don't ever really get to show it off.

  • In fact, you can see behind me these little tiles,

  • this is one of our games

  • that we're doing on our webinars, these Fun Factor games,

  • where kids make these squares

  • and have to match them to patterns.

  • And sometimes you find that kids

  • who are not particularly good at math in school,

  • are just rock stars at this

  • and saying, you know what, that's math.

  • You're good at that.

  • Again, you have to taste of victory.

  • And then I think also, as far as

  • how do we make math not a bad word?

  • We are all in this together.

  • I hear people say, "You know,

  • "I'm just not good at math."

  • Or, "I hate math."

  • A study showed that something like 72% of moms

  • think they're not qualified

  • to help their kids with their math homework.

  • That is a thing.

  • That's a deep conversation we have to have as a country.

  • To kind of get over that, because really,

  • I really think anyone can do math.

  • And what you want is for the parent,

  • to learn the math with the child, the parent,

  • the guardian, whoever it is, and get comfortable.

  • And even if adults are not comfortable with something,

  • we shouldn't say it in front of the kids.

  • Like just keep it to yourself

  • because kids don't start off not liking math.

  • They love it.

  • They come to our Crazy Eights after school club,

  • and they have a great time

  • and they actually don't even believe

  • it's the same thing they're doing in school, it is math.

  • They don't start off not liking it,

  • we're causing that, so we can solve the problem.

  • It's up to us.

  • - Yeah, 100% agree because math at the end of the day,

  • it's puzzles, it's logic

  • and all of us are drawn to games, puzzles, logic,

  • and that's in the math even in the academic math,

  • but sometimes that gets lost

  • and so my only two cents to add to what Laura added is

  • you know whether math is your phobia,

  • public speaking is your phobia writing is or phobia,

  • whatever it is gym class is your phobia.

  • I think it's the paralysis of

  • sometimes wanting the perfect to be is the enemy of good

  • Sometimes it's, you feel like the world will end you know,

  • my son was getting very nervous for a piano recital

  • and he's like, and I'm like, "Iran it's not like

  • "it's gonna be the end of the world."

  • And his response is "What if it is,"

  • you know, like what if the earth parts and lava erupts

  • because he makes a blunder on Taco Bell's Cannon.

  • I mean, it was a fun moment,

  • but we just have to remember the Earth

  • is not gonna end you just give your best attempt.

  • And at the end of the day,

  • you are not your math scores or,

  • or whatever else and that will actually liberate you

  • to do better and to Laura's point

  • for all these people with math anxiety,

  • just get started.

  • Just do, you know, to quote Frozen Two,

  • "Do the next right thing."

  • And for all those parents out there,

  • if you put in even 10, 15 minutes on Khan Academy,

  • you can learn it for your kids and model it.

  • So Laura, you know, one last question.

  • I want to be conscientious of your of your time.

  • You know, what messages do you have

  • for all everyone out there

  • who's socially distanced

  • families are trying to keep the learning going.

  • Well, how can they make, what are the silver linings here?

  • What are some ideas that you you're able to experience

  • in your own family that maybe other people

  • can do to cope with what's going on?

  • - Well, I do think that one silver lining

  • is that families are kind of now learning together

  • in a way that they don't when the kids are off at school,

  • and everybody else is home or at work.

  • So I think, loosening up what we think learning is

  • and what we think education is.

  • There's some funny videos out there saying,

  • you know, "Household chores can be math,"

  • or, "Cooking could be math,"

  • But it's actually, I mean, maybe it's not the chores.

  • But there are a lot of things that just go on in your house

  • that involve numbers.

  • There are a lot of fun things that involve reading.

  • And I think loosening up what we think learning is

  • I think we get in a track

  • where we see what goes on in school and we say,

  • "Oh, that's what learning is."

  • And then you leave school and come home

  • and other stuff happens.

  • We are learning all the time

  • and we're just now more aware

  • that you can do a lot of learning at home

  • because when you're home all day,

  • you suddenly have all this time to explore,

  • it is really hard being home,

  • it's really hard not being able to get supplies,

  • food, everything is harder right now.

  • And to varying degrees for people.

  • But I think just knowing that this is,

  • it's temporary, and let's make the most of it

  • and really get to bond over other kinds of learning.

  • And I mean, it really is the time to pull out

  • the board games, the decks of cards, the dice, poker chips,

  • everything, 'cause all of that is learning too

  • and let's take advantage of the fun time and do that.

  • - That's great advice.

  • Laura, thanks so much for joining

  • and answering our questions.

  • - Oh, and thank you so much for having me

  • and for doing this show

  • 'cause I know you at Khan Academy

  • have had an explosion of traffic this last month

  • and have your hands full so it's awesome

  • you're doing this show and--

  • - Oh no, this has been a blast for us too, thank you.

  • Well, everyone another, you know,

  • always fun to talk to Laura.

  • Thanks for joining this.

  • I think we got some good advice today and you know,

  • stay safe, stay healthy as we go through

  • these unusual times.

  • But there are some silver linings

  • some ways to keep learning

  • some ways to get even more connected with family

  • and discover things about the universe

  • that you might not have had the time

  • or the space to do in the past

  • and we hope to help you or help you help others,

  • if you're a parent or teacher in any way we can.

  • So we look forward to what is today Thursday?

  • We look forward to seeing you tomorrow.

  • Have a good night or evening, afternoon, I don't know.

  • (giggling lightly)

- Hello, everyone, welcome to the Khan Academy

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