and life you love.

My guest today is a woman that I have admired for years, and if you've ever wondered how

you can create a product or a service or something in this world that truly stands out from the

crowd, this is the episode for you.

Renée Mauborgne is a professor of strategy at INSEAD, the world's second largest business

school.

She served on President Barack Obama's board of advisors on historically black colleges

and universities, is a fellow of the world economic forum, and received the Nobels Colloquea

prize for leadership on business and economic thinking.

Renée is the coauthor of Blue Ocean Strategy, a bestseller that's been published in a

record breaking 44 languages across five continents, selling over 3.6 million copies and winning

numerous awards.

The indispensable follow up, Blue Ocean Shift: Beyond Competing, Proven Steps to Inspire

Confidence and Seize New Growth, is available now.

Renée, it is so good to have you here on the set of MarieTV.

I'm so glad to be here.

So, we're – this is like mutual admiration society.

Yeah.

So I think you know this, but I have talked about Blue Ocean Strategy – I think I've

told tens of thousands of people, and I'm not exaggerating there, to get that book,

to use it in their business, as I shared with you when we were out east having an amazing

cocktail together.

We talk about Blue Ocean Strategy in B-School constantly.

And I thought like, when I discovered it?

I was like “oh, my gosh.

This is how I live my life.

This is how I've built my business.”

And I never really had language or context or a framework to share about it.

So for anyone watching that isn't a B-Schooler or hasn't had me tell them about this book,

can you explain to us what is a blue ocean strategy?

Just the whole concept.

Give us the nutshell version.

Yeah.

So, first I have to say, you're right.

It's mutual admiration.

Because I have been studying you as well and watching what you're doing in your space to

carve out this whole new market where you're not really competing with anyone else.

So I have to congratulate you on that.

And what we found is that in looking, most companies are all focused on competing against

one another in existing industries.

The problem is supply exceeds demand, so margins are tight, growth is limited.

And so what happens, it becomes what we think of as this bloody red ocean.

But what we saw is that the companies that are successful, like MarieTV, they're not

competing and doing what everyone else is doing.

They're creating new markets.

And there is no competition out there, and, therefore, they have strong profit and growth,

and we call those blue oceans because they're wide, open, and unexplored.

And so the first book set out the thesis, why are we competing when we can create?

And that's what the book was about.

Yeah.

And so for so many people watching, they have this underlying fear.

They look out into the world, whatever it is that they want to be or a business that

they want to start or perhaps they're already in a business.

And they're going, “Gosh, everyone else has already done the things I want to do.

They've already, you know, gone there, and how am I ever gonna stand out?”

I think what's so brilliant about your work, and, gosh, you guys have been doing this for

decades now.

You have so much experience, expertise, data, studies under your belt.

It really is this very specific actionable way to step back, take a survey of the landscape,

and in a very intentional way, do things differently.

And I think that's really what this next book, right, Blue Ocean Shift helps us – it

gives us that roadmap to make it happen in our own businesses.

Yeah, and I think everyone thinks that the opportunities in my industry or what I'm

passionate about are different.

And I can tell your hairdresser probably thought that until Drybar came along.

The hamburger joints all thought that until Shake Shack came along.

Eyeglasses were collapsing the industry, nobody's in them, and then Warby Parker comes along.

So the opportunities we found, if you look at industry history, the number of industries

are just exploding.

What you're doing wasn't possible 10 to 15 years ago because the technology wasn't

there.

So what we found is, number one, there are opportunities in every single industry to

create, but the thing is, in order to move from competing to creating, we need to know

how to get there.

Otherwise we start sweating, we're scared, we don't know what to do.

And so what the second book is all about is providing that roadmap, which is the tools

and the guidance you need to take you step by step from that red ocean and give you new

ways of looking at the world so you see today what you couldn't see yesterday.

And that's what we're excited about.

Yeah.

And I think what's so cool – one of the stories that's in the beginning of the book

that I just found so moving, and it's illustrative of how this concept isn't just about business.

This concept really, I think, is about creativity and how you live your life.

So what was so wonderful is about the story of Zuhal, the 17 year old Iraqi pianist who

wanted to create her country's first youth orchestra and travel abroad with it, but she

faced so many obstacles.

Can you tell us about that story?

So here you are, a young girl.

She's sitting there, she's 17 years old.

It's 2008.

Iraq is only known for destruction around the world.

All we hear are bad stories.

And she wanted to create a great story.

And she thought music is something that unites.

But here you have a country divided by factual warfare between different Sunnis and Shiites.

You have no resources, no logistics.

But she reaches out via the internet and she decides to look for a conductor.

She finds one in Scotland who's inspired, his name is Paul MacAlindin.

And he starts to look at her challenge.

He loves it, but he knows when he sees youth orchestras, “we have no way to compete.

They haven't had music education in Iraq for a long, long time.

They don't have good instruments.

I can't bring people together.

What do I do?”

And he knew, “if I compete and we try to be like other youth orchestras, we'll never

make it.

We'll never stand out.”

So by applying the blue ocean approach, he says “let's not stand for the best musicians,

the best music, because we probably can't.

But let's stand for peace and bringing people together.

And let's make this something about uniting Sunnis and Shiites and showing that the youth

actually want to build a strong country together, not keep fighting like our parents and grandparents

did.”

And that's the nature.

And it became known by the BBC as the bravest orchestra in the world.

They did all different ways they built it, and they started traveling the world.

And it's probably one of the most socially followed youth orchestra ever.

And so it's just really inspiring.

So they play Kurdish music and Arabic music right next to Beethoven and Brahms, which

is lovely.

And what's so great about this story too, because I don't think there's anyone watching

or listening right now that hasn't found themselves at some point in life up against

a wall.

Right?

Looking out into that landscape going, “I don't have the resources, I don't have the

experience.

All these other people have all these other assets that I don't have.

But yet this burning desire in me to jump into the game.”

And this is, again, why it's like I love you guys and I love your work so much because

… go ahead.

What got me so excited about the second book is the first book, of course, we do Cirque

du Soleil and everything.

When people saw the book they said, “this is great but, you know what?

I don't have Guy Laliberté or Steve Jobs as my CEO and I'm not that.

I have all these obstacles you're saying.”

So what the second book is about is seeing companies that were inspired by Blue Ocean

Strategy, took the tools and frameworks, worked on their own or work with us and use them

to shift their business.

So everyone in the second book is showing you how, like a 17 year old girl sitting in

Iraq with a conductor can start to change the world.

And so we look at regular people facing regular constraints, but applying this roadmap and

shifting from the red to the blue.

So, you know, we always say, now, you don't have to be born Steve Jobs.

Anyone can make a shift.

When we're actually given that roadmap and tools and guidance to know what works, what

doesn't, how to avoid the pitfalls and how to think differently.

And that's what we think the second book does, and that's why I'm super excited

about what it can do.

Yeah.

And, you know, with our B-Schoolers – and whenever I talk to business owners in any

context, you know, one of the things they will often ask me about is pricing.

You know, pricing is such a big topic.

“How do I know what to price my products and my services?”

And I'm a person who always advises, you know, you want to have some nice margins.

Margins are a wonderful thing.

Might not be a perfect connection point, but let's talk about Citizen M, a hotel chain,

because I think they're doing something really unique.

And, again, all of these stories may help people start to connect the dots for themselves

and go, 'Oh, wait.

I could do something like that.”

Yeah.

So the hotel industry is basically a red ocean.

It can't get bloodier than that.

I think there was a Wall Street Journal article in August of this year talking about how it's

going the way of airlines and just adding on all hidden costs and maybe even the FTC

should look into it.

This one hotel chain starts, it starts as two entrepreneurs, and they look at the industry

and that they say is let's start – one of the paths to creating a blue ocean is to

look across strategic groups.

And so they said how can we combine the best of a five star, which is luxury, with the

best of a three star, which is price, to unlock a whole new market.

And so they opened up the market of affordable luxury hotels.

It has the luxury and the best locations, great sheets, great bedding of a five star

hotel, and a price accessible for a three star.

And today they have, just to give you the statistics, they have 90% occupancy rates,

when – which is 80% higher than the industry average.

They have guest satisfaction ratings in the superb and fabulous character category, and

their cost structure is 40% less per room and 50% lower service costs.

So can you imagine how profitable they are?

And that is by shifting the questions we ask.

If you ask, and this is really critical.

If you want to create a blue ocean, you can't look at what people are doing in your competitive

set.

You need to look outside to understand how to shift what you do.

Yes.

This is what we want to talk about.

Okay.

This is the thing I try and drill home to people even for what we do here, everything

I create, I try my darndest to not look at other folks who do similar things than what

we do, and I think that's been one of our secrets to success.

And I share it all the time, like “you guys can do this too.”

But I'm so influenced by things outside whether it's fashion or music or sports

or entertainment or, you know, cooking or things just over in left field.

And you bring that inspiration back.

And I think this ties into something else, not necessarily related to what you talk about

in the book, but we have so many of these folks in our audience, people that consider

themselves multipassionate entrepreneurs, a little phrase that I coined way back.

And people often feel bad because they have so many passions about different things and

I'm like, “no.

You need to flip that script.

Because you being interested in all of these different sectors and having experience, you

can bring that back into whatever you're doing.

And all of a sudden your competitive edge is off the charts.”

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think what people need, especially people like you're talking about multi talents,

they just need a way to understand how they can channel that into growth opportunities.

Right?

So now they seem like they're diffused individuals all these passions.