and hurting women.

Men are consuming huge quantities of pornography,

they have no idea where it comes from at all.

They have no interest or concern about the performers.

Well I think people that watch it presume that it's acting.

They presume that people are performing something to a script,

something that's been choreographed and that if they can go to the cinema

and watch a violent movie where people are being paid to act

then it isn't any different in pornography.

I think it's just a get out clause that people give to themselves

because they want to see pretty vicious things being done to women.

Think something that's really difficult for us to get our heads

round as ethical people, if we call ourselves that,

is that desire amoral.

Now it's not immoral but we might fantasise about things

that we'd never have-- we'd never dream of doing in real life

and so pornography tends to fill that void.

And if you could guarantee that that person wasn't harmed in the process

then is it wrong to want to watch that?

I think desire has to be moral right? If we're not putting our desires

to the test with our morals,

then what is even the point of having morals, right?

I do firmly believe that there are ways of protecting our performers

involved in the porn industry.

And I think it's really important to say that men can also be vulnerable,

to exploitation as well as women.

Even if we see men performing dominant acts and always being on top

so to speak in the industry, we know that sometimes they're forced

or encouraged to take Viagra way past the point of comfort.

The nature of sexism is that it does come down harder on women.

A woman's career is shorter, the kind of acts that a women has to do

in pornography to collect the big bucks.

Like, you are going age out of pornography at a very young age.

And for women, that means doing stuff

that is tougher and tougher on your body.

From the perspective of someone that's been a sex worker

and done sex-- sexual things with people that I didn't know,

didn't necessarily like or find attractive but that they were

paying me to do those things with them...

I would say that, in those situations,

I was happy to take the money

because it was preferable to lots of other kinds of work and I was often,

you know, I was treated really well by and large.

Everything we did was consensual, I set the terms of it.

So, I don't think sex is the same for everyone.

The levels of trauma among women who sold sex are really, really high.

The level of exposure to other kinds of violence are really, really high.

And that's true whether they're selling sex

on a person to person basis

or whether they're selling sex as part of pornography.

You know, ten years ago we didn't have a discussion about ethical porn,

today we do.

Today there are numerous places you can go on the internet to find it.

I think ethical porn and the stuff that's produced by women for women

and by LBGT performers and producers, prove that there's another way

to make material.

It's a really small coterie of people

who are trying to produce ethical porn.

The fact that they exist isn't making a difference

to the rest of the industry. You know, if I keep my own hens,

that is not going to change the egg industry as a whole.

We should be really championing the people that are trying to do

something better and I don't think it is just like keeping your own hens.

It's a grassroots movement at the moment but with momentum and

consumer pressure it can grow.

Thanks for watching! :)

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