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  • Welcome to the Exam Room podcast brought to you by the Physicians Committee. Hi.

  • I am the weight loss champion, Chuck Carroll, and today we are going to learn

  • what is probably a new term for you.

  • It's called Advanced Glycation End Products.

  • What are they?

  • Well, a new study sheds a whole lot of light on that.

  • And it turns out, spoiler alert, the fewer

  • you have in your diet, probably you're going to lose some weight.

  • You're going to get your diabetes under control.

  • You may even get a little bit of help with your heart.

  • But I'm not the expert on it.

  • The person who is is someone who just led some extraordinary research

  • all about ages.

  • Dr. Hamid Khalifa is with us once again here on the exam room. Dr.

  • Colley, over. Good to see you again.

  • Thanks for having me, Chuck.

  • This is a pretty exciting paper, a study that you published here.

  • I had no idea what age these were until you sent the study my way.

  • So I'm excited to share it with the Exam Room is today.

  • So let's start by talking about what in the world

  • is an advanced glycation end product?

  • Yeah, I'm glad you asked, Chuck.

  • There are so many reasons why

  • a plant based diet is good for your health.

  • It's low in saturated fat and cholesterol

  • and rich in fiber, high in antioxidants.

  • It's low in heme iron

  • and now we're talking about advanced glycation end products,

  • which are molecules that cause

  • inflammation and damage in your body.

  • So let me share my screen and let's let's dove into this.

  • The less of advanced glycation and products

  • you have in your body, the better.

  • And we looked into the effect of a plant based diet

  • on advanced glycation end products and its association with body weight,

  • body composition and insulin sensitivity.

  • So what are the advanced glycation

  • end products or the ages, as we call them?

  • These are proteins in our body that have been changed through

  • an extended exposure with sugar or fat.

  • First, they form the early glycation end products.

  • That happens fast within within a few days.

  • And then it's the exposure to sugar

  • and fat in your bloodstream continues.

  • Then the proteins grow to form the advanced glycation end products

  • or the ages, and we can measure them in your bloodstream,

  • we can measured them and they're in your skin.

  • And these compounds

  • increase the oxidative stress.

  • You've probably heard the term before.

  • That means the oxidative damage that that happens in our body

  • and that they also increase chronic inflammation,

  • immune system imbalance and tissue injury.

  • And they are the molecules that are behind

  • the development of cardiovascular disease and kidney disease.

  • And liver disease and metabolic disease, such as diabetes and cancer and neuro

  • neuro degeneration such as Alzheimer's

  • disease, immune problems.

  • In other words,

  • you don't want these in everybody.

  • So the lower their level in your body, the better.

  • Now, how do we get the eggs in our body?

  • Some of them are being formed during metabolism.

  • As we eat food, they're being formed and released into our bloodstream.

  • But some of them are being consumed in the diet.

  • The foods that are particularly high

  • in ages are the processed meats and cheese,

  • but they're also contained in processed grains.

  • And, for example, chocolate, the you know, the sugar and the sugar

  • the sugar sweetened beverages and sugary foods.

  • So in other words,

  • we consume them in our diet.

  • And you've probably heard

  • that when you grill meat,

  • the ages are being formed,

  • especially when you when

  • when the food gets good,

  • like dark brown and almost, almost black.

  • And the consumption of dietary ages has been shown to increase body weight.

  • Also visceral fat and insulin resistance

  • independent of caloric intake.

  • A lot of attention

  • has been directed toward cooking methods.

  • So when you, for example, microwave chicken,

  • the amount of ages will double.

  • But when you grilled chicken,

  • then the eggs will go up six times.

  • Well, that's true for meat.

  • But what about other other foods?

  • What about plant foods?

  • It turns out that, for example,

  • boiled potatoes or apples are much, much lower in ages

  • compared with chicken and with other meats.

  • So that Lee, that led us to ask the question,

  • what if we put people on a vegan diet?

  • What what will happen to their eggs?

  • So that's exactly what we did.

  • We had 240 overweight people

  • who were endemically assigned

  • to follow either a low fat vegan diet that consisted of fruits and vegetables

  • and whole grains and legumes or

  • to stay on their usual diet for 16 weeks.

  • Now, we were tracking their body

  • weight, their body composition,

  • using a DEXA scan.

  • We were tracking their insulin resistance,

  • and they gave us detailed

  • diet records at the beginning and at the end of the study.

  • And based on that, we ran all the foods

  • in from from the database, and we looked at

  • how many eggs they were consuming.

  • Now, over the course of 16 weeks,

  • people lost about £14 on a vegan diet.

  • That's about £1 a week.

  • That's very consistent with our previous findings.

  • About two thirds of the weight loss was due to fat loss.

  • They also lost a lot of visceral fat around the in their organs.

  • That's the metabolically most dangerous fat.

  • Also, insulin resistance was decreased, which is a good finding.

  • Now, the dietary changes were reduced

  • by 80% on the on the vegan diet, which is just mind blowing.

  • Now, where did all the old,

  • old, older eduction of the ages come from?

  • 55% of the

  • reduction came from meat, obviously, on a vegan diet.

  • You don't eat any meat.

  • So the age is coming from meat.

  • We're decreased by 50, 55% of the reduction

  • came from the fact that people were not eating any meat.

  • So that was the majority,

  • not eating any dairy was responsible

  • for 26% decrease in the total ages.

  • And what also helped is, is that the vegan diet was low fat.

  • We minimized the consumption of oils.

  • And also, obviously on a vegan diet,

  • you don't use any animal fats.

  • And that was responsible for 15% of the eggs reduction.

  • We found significant correlations.

  • One thing is to reduce the eggs in the diet.

  • But was it was it somehow a associated with weight loss

  • and the improvements in metabolism?

  • And the answer is yes.

  • The reduction in dietary eggs

  • was also associated with weight loss, improved body composition.

  • That means lower fat mass, lower risk of fat

  • and increased insulin sensitivity

  • independent of caloric intake.

  • Because some of you may be asking, you know, is it because people

  • are eating less calories on a plant based diet?

  • Now, that was completely independent of caloric intake.

  • So in summary, a plant based diet

  • reduced dietary changes significantly,

  • and this was also associated with weight loss, improved body composition

  • and improved insulin sensitivity independent of energy intake.

  • So our advanced glycation

  • end products aging, you

  • don't let them.

  • This is what I have, Chuck, and I'm ready for your questions.

  • Oh, good.

  • Because I have some that that is a fascinating study.

  • You always bring such great research to the show.

  • The first question I have for you is you were talking about

  • how plant based foods tend to have far fewer ease.

  • And the examples that you cited there in your slides

  • were boiled potatoes and an apple.

  • But what about

  • foods that are cooked in a drier way?

  • Say, I really like roasted Brussels sprouts.

  • So those are going to go in the oven.

  • That's a dry heat, possibly even a higher heat.

  • Are they likely to have more energy ease because they've been roasted?

  • Possibly.

  • Even if you have a gas stove

  • exposed to a little bit of flame than, say, the boiled potatoes?

  • That's a great question.

  • If you toast bread or if you toast

  • or if you grill something in the oven,

  • if you bake something in the oven,

  • generally speaking, the dry heat

  • will increase the amount of energy in your food,

  • regardless of the origin of the foods.

  • But what do you need to keep in mind?

  • Is that all the plan to are much lower

  • in age to start with.

  • So let's say, you know, a slice of bread

  • would have 50 kilo units of ages, 100 grams.

  • And by toasting the bread, you would increase

  • the amount of egg used, 75 or even a hundred.

  • That would be still super low compared to the animal product.

  • So is it is it better to boil

  • the potatoes, for example, than bake them in terms of eggs?

  • Yes, absolutely.

  • But at the same time,

  • if you are sticking to a plant based diet,

  • then your diet will be automatically much lower in eggs

  • compared with someone who eats animal products.

  • For the people that were participating in the study,

  • did you talk about cooking methods with them and suggest.

  • Not at all. Yeah, that's a good point.

  • Not at all.

  • The participants in the study were not instructed in

  • any in any way on which cooking methods they should be using.

  • So even without any instructions,

  • their amount of ages went down by 80%.

  • All right.

  • Now, there was a quote in the study that stood out to me, and it made me

  • wonder how much meat were the participants eating prior to the study?

  • Because verbatim.

  • Now you wrote that their consumption

  • of animal derived foods was significant.

  • So are we talking about meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

  • Exactly.

  • It's a standard American diet.

  • So, of course, we're talking about daily consumption of meat.

  • One finding that's really surprising for me personally.

  • You know, we know from from the nutritional

  • tables and the content of ages

  • that processed meat are the highest in ages.

  • And so I was looking at which which foods

  • and which meat contributed most to the reduction of eggs.

  • So I was expecting that the processed meat

  • would be the biggest driver, but that was not the case.

  • It was white meat that was the biggest contributor.

  • So when people stopped eating meat,

  • most people already know that processed meat and red meat,

  • they're kind of, you know, risky and they increase

  • your risk of colon cancer and so many, so many other issues.

  • So most of peop most people

  • think that they're eating healthy

  • when they eat the majority of meat in the form of white meat.

  • And but getting away from all meat,

  • you know, reduce the age is the most.

  • And specifically, the majority was coming from white meat

  • because people were consuming white meat as healthy food.

  • You know, it's not just that group.

  • That's that's the common perception, I think, almost universally

  • around the world that your poultry is probably going

  • to be thought of as being healthy.

  • When we've seen time and time and time again, it's not.

  • That's just a misnomer.

  • One of the other interesting things that I found in the study was

  • there was a pretty big caloric drop for the vegan group versus

  • the control group here who did not make any changes to their diet.

  • So we're talking about with the vegan group that went from around

  • 1800 to a little over 1300, the control group down just to a hair

  • like maybe 1800 to 1650, somewhere in that ballpark.

  • My question is, could the caloric

  • drop explain some of this or

  • basically what the results of health study,

  • if they were still eating 1800 calories worth of low fat,

  • 100% plant based foods, would that

  • drop still exist?

  • You tell me.

  • That's an excellent question.

  • And in fact, this is one of the strengths

  • of the look of a vegan diet.

  • When people start eating a vegan diet,

  • the fiber just fills them up and they feel satiated.

  • They don't need to eat more.

  • And if you want to lose weight, this is a great advantage

  • because you are satisfied with less calories.

  • And as a result, you will you will start losing weight.

  • But that's not the only mechanism behind weight loss on the plant based diet.

  • We also showed that vegan diet increases metabolism.

  • It increases the thermic effect of food, which is the amount of calories

  • that are being released once we eat a meal in the form of heat.

  • So wouldn't that be nice if we could just burn

  • all the extra calories in the form of heat whenever we eat?

  • And that's exactly what started happening in this particular study.

  • So reducing the calories

  • is just one, one part of the picture.

  • Another one is increasing the metabolism, which is another mechanism

  • behind weight loss in this particular study.

  • And you asked an important question is the reduction in age

  • is driven by the reduction in calories?

  • And the answer is no.

  • It's completely independent.

  • It's it's based on the foods that are that you're

  • eating, the types of foods.

  • Also, the associations with weight loss

  • and improve body composition and improved insulin sensitivity.

  • These associations remain significant

  • after adjustment for caloric intake.

  • So it's not about how many calories you're eating.

  • It's about what kind of foods you're eating.

  • A couple more before I let you go.

  • When I was going through it, I was looking at you guys,

  • did a really good job of breaking down or measuring the ages by food group.

  • And what we saw was that there was actually a rise

  • in the amount of ages in the vegan groups diet

  • from legumes and whole grains.

  • Is that simply because they weren't eating a lot of them

  • before they started eating the low fat vegan diet?

  • That's exactly right.

  • And you just nailed it. Yeah.

  • People were eating more ages from legumes, for example,

  • because they were not eating many beans to start with.

  • And yet its beans are not a significant source

  • of eggs compared with meat or dairy or added fat.

  • So even with the increase of veggies

  • from legumes, their overall ages

  • just plummeted over the course of six weeks.

  • And we also saw a rise in ages with

  • the meat alternatives as they were categorized.

  • So a lot of the plant based meats that we see right now in stores,

  • are they a little bit higher in ages than whole plant foods?

  • That's correct.

  • Processed foods in general tend to be higher in ages

  • compared with fresh produce.

  • So the more minimally processed foods

  • you consume, the better off you are in terms of ages.

  • But at the same time, this is not a reason to exclude them

  • completely from the diet, because still, you know, even

  • when including all the soy milk and all the roasted bread

  • and all the roasted potatoes and all the baked goods,

  • people are still reducing their total eggs by 80%.

  • That's pretty significant.

  • And were there any other changes to the diet?

  • Was fasting included in any of this or was it just eat

  • the low fat plant based diet and we'll see what happens?

  • It was the latter.

  • It was just go vegan.

  • Keep keep the fat content low.

  • The the upper limit for fat intake was 30 grams per day.

  • We instructed the participants to minimize the consumption of oils,

  • the sauteed, their onions and vegetables in vegetable

  • broth or soy sauce or water,

  • instead of oil, and also minimize

  • other fatty foods such as nuts and avocados.

  • And obviously, most of the packaged foods are out because of the high fat content.

  • There you go.

  • That's your new word for the day.

  • Well, new phrase for the day, advanced glycation end products.

  • And you want to minimize them in your diet as well

  • to live a longer and healthier life.

  • Dr. Hannah Kali over. Thank you again.

  • Brilliant research. Thanks for sharing it with us.

  • Thanks, Jack.

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