He's been speaking to our science editor, Rebecca Morrell.

You've been down to the Titanic Recite many times.

You've been even deeper.

You did the first solo dive to the bottom of the Mariana.

You, you came out and saw my sub before I made that dive and I took you through the whole, you even, you even sat inside it.

So you kind of know what it feels like to be inside.

A and that sub went to three times Titanic Depth quite literally uh safely.

I'd like to point out, you know, when, when people go down to a place like Titanic as um let's call it a citizen explorer, right?

I don't like tourists.

I think somebody that's willing to spend that kind of money and do that kind of preparation and devote weeks of their life.

They're a citizen explorer.

Um If they shouldn't have to worry about the vehicle that they're in, worry about Titanic because it's a, it's a dangerous site, you know, for entanglement and collapse.

You could have a structural collapse on the sub and it's a very dangerous site.

But understand the risks, agree to those risks.

But, but don't be in a situation where you haven't been told about the risks of the actual platform that you're diving in there.

In the 21st century.

There shouldn't be any risk.

We've managed to make it through 60 years from 1960 until today, 63 years without a fatality.

And most people don't know this, no fatalities, no major accidents and deep submergence.

There are a couple of fatalities with very shallow operating subs in the, in the late sixties.

But that's longer ago than the time from, you know, the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk to, to the 1st 7 40 sevens flying.

So you can imagine there's been a lot of development in between.

So, you know, one of the saddest aspects of this is how preventable it really was, you know, and, and that to me is the, the greatest heartbreak of the whole thing.

Well, I wanted to ask about that because I mean, you, you know, a lot of about submersibles having designed your own one, but safety concerns had been raised with.

Absolutely.

And they should be raised, they should be raised because they cut corners.

They, they, they used unproven experimental technology on a sub that took passengers and to me that's inexcusable and they were uncertified and they knew that cert the certification process would not approve the technologies that they adopted.

I think it's fine to be an innovator.

You know, the sub that, that you sat in that, that we built and that I operated to the, to the deepest place on the planet was an experimental craft.

I own it, it was not certified, it was an experimental craft, just like, you know, the Mercury and Gemini and Apollo rockets were experimental craft.

They weren't certified but they weren't taking passengers either.

You know, I think the second that you create a business model around asking people for a quarter of a million dollars to take them to some place.

You have to ensure their safety.

You have to jump through every possible hoop and you have to listen to the consensus in the engineering community.

You know, I, I would submit that.

There's a terrible irony here, here we have at the, at the wreck of Titanic, we now have another wreck that is based on.

Unfortunately, the same principles of not heeding warnings.

Ocean Gate were worn.

They had people working internally apparently that, that basically quit.

They had some of us, I wasn't involved directly but there were some of us in the deep submergence community that got together and wrote a letter to them saying we believe that you are going on a path to catastrophe.

That's a rough quote, something like that.

And we all have, you know, a concern here because it will be a setback for the deep submergence community because of this because of the, you know, the, the let's call it poor choices.

I don't wanna say reckless, but let's say poor choices that were made filmmaker and Submersible expert James Cameron there.