"Depending on the questions you ask Putin,

you could be arrested or not."

And I said, "Listen to what you're saying.

You're saying the US government

has like control over my questions

and they'll arrest me if I ask the wrong question.

Like, how are we better than Putin if that's true?"

Killing Navalny during the Munich Security Conference

in the middle of a debate

over $60 billion in Ukraine funding,

maybe the Russians are dumb.

I didn't get that vibe at all.

I don't think we kill people in other countries

to affect election outcomes.

Oh wait, no, we do it a lot, and have for 80 years.

- The following is a conversation

with Tucker Carlson, a highly influential

and often controversial political commentator.

When he was at, Fox, Time Magazine called him

the most powerful conservative in America.

After Fox, he has continued to host big,

impactful interviews and shows on X,

on the, "Tucker Carlson Podcast" and on, tuckercarlson.com.

I recommend subscribing, even if you disagree

with his views, it is always good

to explore a diversity of perspectives.

Most recently, he interviewed the President

of Russia, Vladimir Putin.

We discussed this, the topic of Russia, Putin, Navalny,

and the war in Ukraine at length in this conversation.

Please allow me to say a few words about the very fact

that I did this interview.

I have received a lot of criticism publicly

and privately when I announced

that I'll be talking with Tucker.

For people who think I shouldn't do the conversation

with Tucker or generally think that there are certain people

I should never talk to.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

I will talk to everyone as long as they're willing

to talk genuinely in long form.

for two, three, four or more hours.

I will talk to Putin and to Zelensky,

to Trump, and to Biden, to Tucker

and to Jon Stewart, AOC, Obama,

and many more people with very different views on the world.

I want to understand people and ideas.

That's what long form conversations

are supposed to be all about.

Now for people who criticize me

for not asking tough questions, I hear you,

but again, I disagree.

I do often ask tough questions, but I try to do it in a way

that doesn't shut down the other person,

putting them into a defensive state

where they give only shallow talking points.

Instead, I'm looking always for the expression

of genuinely held ideas and the deep roots of those ideas.

When done well, this gives us a chance

to really hear out the guest

and to begin to understand what and how they think.

And I trust the intelligence of you, the listener,

to make up your own mind, to see through the bullshit,

to the degree there's bullshit

and to see to the heart of the person.

Sometimes I fail at this,

but I'll continue working my ass off to improve.

All that said, I find that this no tough questions criticism

often happens when the guest is a person

the listener simply hates and wants to see them grilled

into embarrassment, called a liar, a greedy egomaniac,

a killer, maybe even an evil human being and so on.

If you are such a listener,

what you want is drama, not wisdom.

In this case, this show is not for you.

There are many shows you can go to for that

with hosts that are way more charismatic

and entertaining than I'll ever be.

If you do stick around, please know I will work hard

to do this well and to keep improving.

Thank you for your patience and thank you for your support.

I love you all.

This is the, "Lex Fridman Podcast."

To support it, please check out

our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Tucker Carlson.

What was your first impression

when you met Vladimir Putin for the interview?

- I thought he seemed nervous

and I was very surprised by that.

And I thought he seemed like someone

who'd overthought it a little bit, who had a plan.

And I don't think that's the right way

to go into any interview.

My strong sense, having done a lot of them for a long time,

is that it's better to know what you think,

to say as much as you can honestly,

so you don't get confused by your own lies

and just to be yourself.

And I thought that he went into it

like an over-prepared student.

And I kept thinking, "Why is he nervous?"

But I guess because he thought

a lot of people were gonna see it.

- But he was also probably prepared

to give you a full lesson in history as he did.

- (chuckles) Well, I was totally shocked by that

and very annoyed because I thought he was filibustering.

I thought he would, I mean, I asked him as I usually do,

the most obvious dumbest question ever,

which is, why'd you do this?

And he had said in a speech that I think is worth reading.

I don't speak Russian,

so I haven't heard it in the original,

but he had said at the moment of the beginning of the war,

he had given this address to Russians,

in which he explained to the fullest extent

we have seen so far why he was doing this.

And he said in that speech, I fear that NATO, the West,

the United States, the Biden administration

will preemptively attack us.

And I thought, "Well, that's interesting."

I mean, I can't evaluate whether that's a fear

rooted in reality or one rooted in paranoia.

But I thought, "Well, that's an answer right there."

And so I alluded to that in my question

and rather than answering it, he went off on this long,

from my perspective, kind of tiresome,

sort of greatest hits of Russian history.

And the implication I thought was, "Well,

Ukraine is ours, or Eastern Ukraine is ours already."

And I thought he was doing that

to avoid answering the question.

So, the last thing you want

when you're interviewing someone is to get rolled.

And I didn't wanna be rolled.

So, a couple of times interrupted him, politely I thought,

but he wasn't having it.

And then I thought, "You know what?

I'm not here to prove that I'm a great interviewer."

It's kind of not about me, I want to know who this guy is.

I think a Western audience, a global audience,

has a right to know more about the guy,

and so just let him talk.

'Cause it's not, you know, I don't feel

like my reputation's on the line.

People have already drawn conclusions about me,

I suppose to the extent they have.

I'm not interested really in those conclusions anyway,

so just let him talk.

And so I calmed down and just let him talk.

And in retrospect,

I thought that was really, really interesting.

Whether you agree with it or not,

or whether you think it's relevant

to the war in Ukraine or not, that was his answer,

and so it's inherently significant.

- Well, you said he was nervous.

Were you nervous?

Were you afraid that says Vladimir Putin?

- I wasn't afraid at all, and I wasn't nervous at all.

- Did you drink tea beforehand?

- (chuckles) No, I did my normal regimen

of nicotine pouches and coffee.

No, I'm not a tea drinker.

I try not to eat all the sweets they put in front of us,

which is that is my weakness is eating crap.

But you eat a lot of sugar,

as you know before an interview, and it does dull you,

so I successfully resisted that.

But no, I wasn't nervous.

I wasn't nervous the whole time I was there.

Why would I be?

I'm 54, my kids are grown, I believe in God.

I'm almost never nervous.

But no, I wasn't nervous, I was just interested.

I mean, I couldn't.

I'm interested in Soviet history, I studied it in college.

I've read about it my entire life.

My dad worked in the Cold War.

It was a constant topic of conversation.

And so to be in the Kremlin in a room

where Stalin made decisions, either wartime decisions

or decisions about murdering his own population,

I just couldn't get over it.

We were in Molotov's old office.

So for me that was, I was just blown away by that.

I thought I knew a lot about Russia.

It turns out I knew a lot about the Soviet period,

the 1937 purge trials, the famine in Ukraine.

Like I knew a fair amount about that,

but I really knew nothing about contemporary Russia,

less than I thought I did it turned out.

But yeah, I was just blown away by where we were.

And that's kind of one of the main drivers

at this stage in my life of, you know,

that that's why I do what I do

is 'cause I'm interested in stuff

and I wanna see as much as I can and try

and draw conclusions from it to the extent I can,

so I was very much caught up in that.

But no, I wasn't nervous.

I didn't think he was gonna like, kill me or something.

And I'm not particularly afraid of that anyway.

- Not afraid of dying?

- Not really, no.

I mean, again, it's an age and stage in life thing.

I mean, I have four children,

so there were times when they were little

where I was terrified of dying,

'cause if I died it would have huge consequences.

But no, I mean, at this point, I don't want to die,

I'm really enjoying my life.

But I've been with the same girl for 40 years

and I have four children who I'm extremely close to.

Well now five, a daughter-in-law.

And I love them all, I'm really close to them.

I tell 'em I love them every day.

I've had a really interesting life.

- What was the goal?

Just linger on that.

What was the goal for the interview?

Like, how were you thinking about it?

What would success be like in your head leading into it.

- To bring more information. - [Lex] Just information?

- To the public, yeah, that's it.

I mean, I have really strong feelings about

what's happening not just in Ukraine or Russia,

but around the world.

I think the world is resetting

to the grave disadvantage of the United States.

I don't think most Americans are aware of that at all.

And so, that's my view.

And I've stated it many times because it's sincere,

but my goal was to have more information brought to the West

so people could make their own decisions

about whether this is a good idea.

I mean, I guess I reject the whole premise

of the war in Ukraine from the American perspective,

which is a tiny group of dumb people in Washington

has decided to do this

for reasons they won't really explain.

And you don't have a role in it at all

as an American citizen, as the person who's paying for it,

whose children might be drafted to fight it,

to shut up and obey.

I just reject that completely.

I think, I guess I'm a child of a different era.

I'm a child of participatory democracy to some extent,