So how do you do that?

This is the work we need to do, like individually and also collectively to change the narrative, to change the story.

Again, you see it all over the world that people everywhere tell their story as a story of victimhood.

You have also some of the most powerful countries in the world, Russia, telling itself its story as a story of victimhood.

Everybody's against us, everybody hates us, everybody tries to destroy us.

And the problem with stories of victimhood, even they always have an element of truth in them, of course, but if you think about yourself primarily as a victim, it relieves you of our responsibility.

I'm not responsible for all the problems in the world, I'm a victim.

I need more power.

One day when I'm empowered, okay, then I take responsibility, but not now.

Now I just need to focus on getting more powerful myself.

You're not responsible for any of the people that are killed in Gaza, not one.

That's the story of the victim.

Part of also what I try to do in the children's book is to say, no, humans are the most powerful entities on the planet.

And also when you look at human collectives, states, tribes, religions, all of them have some measure of power.

And unless we kind of change our narratives from one of victimhood to one of at least partial empowerment, we are not going to take responsibility for anything.

So then how do you, another question from the audience, it's a great one, how do you define the difference between patriotism and nationalism?

Specifically, where's the limit before we have ideologies that endanger us?

It's the limit between uniqueness and supremeness and the limit of the border between love and hate.

The good type of patriotism says that this is a unique group of people which I love, I care about, and therefore I'm willing to go the extra mile for them.

I'll do for them things that I wouldn't do for others, which is completely reasonable.

This is how we behave with our family, with our friends.

This is also how we should behave with our nation.

It becomes dangerous when we start saying this group of people, they are not just unique, they are superior, they are supreme.

They are better than anybody else.

They deserve far more than anybody else.

And when the emphasis shifts from love and caring to hate, people who define themselves, I'm a great patriot because I hate foreigners.

I am a great patriot not because I pay my taxes.

I don't pay any taxes.

It's because I hate minorities, so I'm a great patriot.

And this is the danger zone.

Another question, in the months leading up to October 7th, you were highly critical of the Israeli government.

We've talked about that.

Since October 7th, you have defended Israel's right to exist and been critical of the progressive left that blames Israel and the occupation.

How do you reconcile these complicated views?

Two ideas held at the same time, no problem.

I mean, I'm in...

I'm in favor of Palestinians realizing their rights to live a dignified life in their homeland, and at the same time, I'm in favor of Israelis having their rights to live dignified lives in their homeland.

What exactly the solution would look like two states, this kind of solution, it's difficult to say at the present moment, but at the end of the road, we need a situation when the right to exist, and not just to exist, but again, to live dignified lives of both nations is recognized, and there shouldn't be a logical contradiction.

Just because you're in favor of the rights of Palestinians doesn't mean you have to be also in favor of destroying Israel completely, and just because you're in favor of defending Israel doesn't mean that you should ignore the terrible suffering of the Palestinians and their rights.

So two big things, speaking of...

Speaking of holding two views in your mind at the same time, since October 7th, two different things have happened, right?

On the one hand, we have a lot more people that now see the urgency of creating a pathway for the Palestinians to be able to govern themselves and have a level of self-defense.

On the other hand, you have radicalized far larger numbers of populations, both inside Israel and in Gaza, in the West Bank, among Palestinian refugees in Jordan and elsewhere.

Which of those two things do you feel is more likely to play out to determine outcomes, and why?

It depends on the decisions being taken right now, or in the coming weeks and months.

There is a potential that out of this terrible catastrophe, something good will actually emerge.

If there is a kind of comprehensive deal for a peace treaty between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which also includes the restart of the Israeli-Palestinian peace conference, a peace process, rebuilding of Gaza, and providing the Palestinian people with a better future.

And if we go in that direction, I think that all the terrible hatred and fear that has been created in recent months, we can get over it.

When you're in the midst of this moment of terrible pain, you think it will last forever.

But time is very powerful.

Talk about Rwanda.

Give the Rwanda example.

Yeah, exactly 30 years ago, we had this terrible genocide in Rwanda.

You had October the 7th on 10 times bigger, not 1,000 people massacred in a day, 10,000 people massacred in a day, in a terrible way, not with bombs from far away, but with knives and clubs.

And then it happened again the next day, and again the next day, and again the next day, for 100 days, a million people were murdered in 100 days in the most atrocious ways you could imagine. 30 years later, they live together, the Hutu and Tutsis.

Rwanda is one of the most successful, by many measures, countries in Africa.

At the time, in the early 90s, it would have been utterly unthinkable.

And it's only 30 years.

And similarly, if you think about the history of Jews and Germans, that are now very good friends, and it was just 70, 80 years ago.

So in the midst of a very painful moment, the pain and the hatred, they just flood your mind completely.

It's like a black screen in front of your eyes.

You can see nothing.

You think it will last forever.

But if people make the right decisions, even the worst storms pass.