熱烈交流：女性體育運動中的變性女性 (HEATED Exchange: Trans Women in Women's Sports)

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We're gonna have a conversation about trans women should be able to compete in women's sports Anybody have an opinion about that?

我們要討論變性女性是否應該參加女子體育比賽的問題，有人對此有意見嗎？
I have a feeling this is too controversial for people so we might have to change the claim But somebody must want to have an ominous conversation about this Do you think trans women should be able to compete women's sports too controversial even for you son?

我感覺這對人們來說太有爭議了，所以我們可能要改變說法，但一定有人想就此展開一場不祥的對話你認為變性女性應該能夠參加女子體育比賽嗎？
This alone is interesting to me.

僅這一點，我就覺得很有意思。
Nobody will have a conversation about this interesting I'll give someone else the mic and let them question me about this claim Trans women should be able to compete in women's sports.

沒有人會就這個有趣的問題進行討論，我會把麥克風給別人，讓他們就跨性別女性應該能夠參加女性體育比賽的說法向我提問。
You want to have that conversation.

你想進行這樣的對話。
No too scared Okay, you want to have that conversation?

好吧，你想談談嗎？
Nope too scared too scared Okay Anybody anybody trans women should be able to compete in women's sports be terrifying Trans women should be able to compete in women's sports.

不，太害怕了，太害怕了好吧，任何人都變性了，變性婦女應該能夠參加女子運動競賽，太可怕了，變性婦女應該能夠參加女子運動競賽。
Anybody have it.

誰有
You have an opinion Awesome.

你有自己的觀點，真棒。
Awesome.

棒極了
Stand on the neutral line right there So the game has only two rules We can do it with one.

站在中線上，就在那裡所以遊戲只有兩條規則，我們可以用一條。
Oh, we got two people.

我們有兩個人
Oh, we got three people.

我們有三個人
All right.

好的
Well, I was wrong I was wrong.

我錯了，我錯了。
I was wrong.

我錯了。
I didn't think it would come.

我沒想到它會來。
Okay, stand on neutral.

好的，保持中立。
Okay Okay, so this is a very simple game.

好了好了，這是一個非常簡單的遊戲。
We have a Few rules the first rule is you can't stand in between the line Very straightforward The second rule is you can't move until I say move and the reason for that is because we don't want anybody's opinion To affect anybody else's opinion Exactly precisely now, let me go over this Strongly agree agree Slightly agree neutral slightly disagree disagree strongly disagree so I'm gonna ask this question and come back to five and don't move until I get to Go and stand on a line.

我們有幾條規則第一條規則是你不能站在隊伍中間非常直截了當第二條規則是你不能移動除非我說移動
It could not possibly be any simple, but you'd be astonished How many people do not pay attention to the rules?

不可能再簡單了，但你會驚訝於有多少人不遵守規則？
Trans women should be able to compete in women's sports five four three two one move Okay, we've got one disagree one strongly agreed to up you're on the line, okay tell us why you agree I Agree because Trans women should be able to be key should be able to compete in women's sports because they are competing underneath their identity that they very solidly aligned with and to deprive them of that is to Kind of say that their identity is not acceptable in society In society or in sports that they're they're not about their identity is not validated.

變性女性應該能夠參加女子體育競賽 5 4 3 2 1 移動好的，我們有 1 位不同意 1 位非常同意，你在線上，好的，請告訴我們你為什麼同意我同意，因為變性女性應該能夠成為關鍵，應該能夠參加女子體育競賽，因為她們是以自己的身份參加比賽的，她們非常堅定地與自己的身份保持一致，剝奪她們的這種權利，就等於說她們的身份在社會中是不可接受的，在社會或體育運動中，她們的身份是不被認可的。
Okay Do you agree with what she said?

你同意她的說法嗎？
Yes, but that's not specifically why I agree that trans women should be able to compete.

是的，但這並不是我同意變性女性參加比賽的具體原因。
Okay.

好的
Why do you think I believe?

你覺得我為什麼會相信？
Trans women should be able to compete in sports because there's specific criterion That trans women have to meet in order to be able to compete under the woman category in which sports I'm not an expert on all sports.

變性女性應該能夠參加體育比賽，因為變性女性必須符合特定標準，才能在哪些體育項目中參加女性類別的比賽，我不是所有體育項目的專家。
I'm not an expert either, but I do know for at least the Olympics There are requirements for trans women because when trans women go on test When transform and go on hormones Testosterone drops in them.

我也不是專家，但我至少知道奧運會對變性婦女有要求，因為當變性婦女接受測試時，她們體內的睪丸激素會下降。
So a lot of the natural advantages They might have being born in a man's body are depleted like the strength testosterone gives you and so on and so forth So they have to be below a certain testosterone level They have to be on estrogen for a certain amount of time and even the rule where you have to be below a certain test Percentages have stopped cis women from competing in sports.

是以，她們生在男人身體裡的很多天然優勢都被耗盡了，比如睪丸激素給你帶來的力量等等，所以她們必須低於一定的睪丸激素水平，必須在一定時間內服用雌激素，甚至必須低於一定的測試百分比的規則也阻止了順式女性參加體育比賽。
So They're very like hard set rules.

是以，它們非常像硬性規定。
There's this woman meaning what this woman?

這個女人是什麼意思？
Women who was born as women Women who were born as women.

生為女人的女人生為女人的女人
Okay, cis women.

好吧，順式女性。
Yes This cis gendered is when you're born in the correct sex.

是的，"順性別 "是指出生時性別正確。
So like I was born a woman I'm identify as woman still I'm sis if I were to identify as non-binary or anything else.

所以，就像我生來就是女人，我的身份是女人，但如果我的身份是非二元或其他身份，我還是姐姐。
I would not be sis You're gonna ask this question, I know what sis means Well, sis isn't in in the question and what sis might mean to you that doesn't mean that people watching this are gonna know It's just things are a definition things mean things Sis gender means one thing Is it possible that some people could define or perceive the word women to be different?

你要問這個問題，我知道 "妹妹 "是什麼意思，但問題中沒有 "妹妹 "這個詞，"妹妹 "對你來說可能意味著什麼，但這並不意味著看這個節目的人會知道。
Well, I'm not talking about women I'm talking about the term cisgender Yeah, so I think it's important that we define our terms.

好吧，我說的不是女性，我說的是 "順性別 "這個詞，所以我認為我們必須定義我們的術語。
That's why I meant I wanted to define it Yeah, do you think it's unfair for me to ask you to define it?

所以我才說我想給它下個定義是啊，你覺得我讓你給它下定義不公平嗎？
No I I just don't it sounded like you didn't know what since gender was and I was just wondering if you didn't know that Was why you thought you should ask that question?

不，我只是不知道，聽起來你好像不知道自己的性別是什麼，我只是想知道，如果你不知道，為什麼你認為你應該問這個問題？
Oh, no I'm actually I'll tell you why there but I'm a legitimate gender studies scholar.

哦，不，實際上我是，我會告訴你為什麼，但我是一個合法的性別研究學者。
Oh Yeah, thank you.

是的，謝謝。
I've I don't mean to brag but I've really I'll published almost anyone in the world in gender studies Thank you, I'll show you my body of literature later, but for now Trans women should be able to compete in women's sports.

我不是在吹牛，但我真的在性別研究方面發表了幾乎世界上任何人的論文。謝謝你，我稍後會向你展示我的文學作品，但現在，跨性別女性應該能夠參加女性體育比賽。
What do you think about that?

你對此有何看法？
I do not think they should be able to do that.

我認為他們不應該這樣做。
Okay, did anything they per se Persuade you think about that for a second, but tell us why I just think the Biological makeup of a man is not the same as women whether they take hormones or not Especially if they've been competing in that sport for years They did it originally as a man or woman and then they switched to female which I played a female sport growing up What did you play lacrosse?

好吧，他們本身有沒有說服你想一想，但告訴我們為什麼，我只是覺得一個男人的生物構成是不一樣的婦女，無論他們是否服用激素，尤其是如果他們已經競爭了多年的運動，他們做了它作為一個男人或女人，然後他們切換到女性，我打了一個女性運動長大的，你玩曲棍球？
Which is very different.

這是截然不同的。
That's the one with the thing the net Which is very different from male lacrosse So I just think that it comes down to the biological makeup of like the training used for it and everything But I agree with a lot of the stuff that they say I'm not like They shouldn't do it, but I just think it should be so you think and I just want to make sure I get your argument You think that they shouldn't do it because it confers an unfair advantage on the person even if they've met their hormone requirements because as a biological male ages before they transition they have certain intrinsic advantages a Height for example, maybe in basketball or now that doesn't mean all men are tall but on a Gaussian curve It means that more men are tall than women So is that I don't want to mischaracterize.

但我同意他們說的很多話，我並不是說他們不應該這樣做，我只是認為應該這樣做，你是這麼想的，我只是想確保我理解了你的論點，你認為他們不應該這樣做，因為這給了他們不公平的優勢，即使他們已經達到了荷爾蒙要求、你認為他們不應該這麼做，是因為這樣做會給人帶來不公平的優勢，即使他們已經達到了荷爾蒙要求，因為生理上的男性在變性之前就已經老了，他們有一些內在的優勢，比如說身高，也許在籃球或者現在，這並不意味著所有的男性都很高，但在高斯曲線上，這意味著更多的男性比女性高。
Yes.

是的。
That's what I mean.

我就是這個意思。
Did that persuade you?

這說服你了嗎？
I would say no because we have talked about like the Hormones and like the genetic makeup of a male body the versus a female body, but there are changes that can Happen whenever Someone starts to transition that can affect their muscle density Just like their overall genetic makeup another genetic makeup, but like their hormones and just how their body functions So, I don't know if that is like completely valid in arguing this what if I could provide you with evidence that even with the hormone replacement therapy That still conferred an advantage on people born as men That it that it wouldn't give it would it would even if they underwent hormone therapy It still was an advantage For the trans woman to participate in sports.

我想說不，因為我們已經討論過荷爾蒙和男性身體與女性身體的基因構成，但只要有人開始轉型，就會發生一些變化，這些變化會影響他們的肌肉密度，就像他們的整體基因構成，另一種基因構成，但就像他們的荷爾蒙和他們的身體機能，所以、我不知道這是否完全有效如果我能給你提供證據證明即使接受了激素替代療法
Would you then be for it or against it?

那麼你是支持還是反對呢？
I would be open to revising my opinion if there's Evidence presented So you would be open to revise it and would you be open to revising your opinion to go to the agree or the slightly?

如果有證據提出，我願意修改我的意見，所以你願意修改，你願意修改你的意見，同意或略微同意？
Agree slightly agree, but I don't think I would go any farther than that.

略微同意，但我不認為我會走得更遠。
Okay.

好的
Okay So the thing that's keeping you must be some identity factor.

好吧，那麼阻礙你的一定是某種身份因素。
Yes.

是的。
Okay.

好的
So let's talk about that in a second So just to be clear, I don't want to put words in your mouth if you were to be shown evidence to your satisfaction that people born as male who transition who met the requirements of whatever Lacrosse Yeah, and you if you were to be shown that they would still have an unfair event you would be willing to move one Possibly two but not three.

是以，我們稍後再談這個問題，我只是想說清楚，我不想把話放在你的嘴裡，如果有人向你出示證據，讓你滿意，出生為男性的人誰過渡誰符合要求的任何長曲棍球是啊，你如果你被證明，他們仍然有一個不公平的事件，你會願意移動一個可能兩個，但不是三個。
Is that what you said?

你是這麼說的嗎？
Is that fair to say?

這樣說公平嗎？
Okay, if you were to be shown that advantage, would you move?

好吧，如果讓你看到這種優勢，你會行動嗎？
Probably not?

可能不會？
Okay, what would it take for you to move?

好吧，你要怎樣才能搬走？
Nothing, probably I feel very strongly about this because here's the thing even if you were to show me proof that People born as men who transition as women still have an unfair advantage You know, I'd believe that full-heartedly I wouldn't like try to dispute that if I saw like the facts behind that Yeah, however sports inherently have genetic advantaged players like Michael Phelps Michael Phelps with the heart.

你知道，我會全心全意地相信這一點，如果我看到了背後的事實，我不會試圖去質疑這一點。是的，然而，體育運動本來就有像邁克爾-菲爾普斯（Michael Phelps）邁克爾-菲爾普斯（Michael Phelps）這樣的具有心臟遺傳優勢的球員。
Yeah.

是啊
Yeah.

是啊
Yeah.

是啊
He didn't produce like lactic acid.

他沒有產生乳酸。
He had an abnormally large wingspan He had like webbed toes and webbed feet.

他的翼展異常寬大，他的腳趾和腳掌都像蹼一樣。
No, it's not him competing.

不，不是他在比賽。
That's an unfair genetic advantage We don't care about genetic advantages until it's someone transitioning from a man to a woman or a woman to a man I have to call you.

這是一種不公平的遺傳優勢，我們不關心遺傳優勢，直到有人從男人變成女人，或者從女人變成男人，我才不得不給你打電話。
I have to push back on that I have personally never heard anybody concerned about people transitioning to a man Competing in men and men sports of you.

我不得不反駁說，我個人從來沒有聽說過有人擔心人們過渡到一個男人在男人和男人的運動中競爭。
No, that's also another problem.

不，這也是另一個問題。
Why are we still focus on trans women?

為什麼我們還在關注變性婦女？
I'm not trans man as well.

我也不是變性人。
Well, I think I think unfair advantage It should be well But that's what I'm saying no one really cares about it being an unfair advantage or we wouldn't like basketball for instance if you're tall and I you could still make it to the NBA if you're like above six seven, but if you're below six foot and Phenomenal, that's a basketball short.

好吧，我認為我認為不公平的優勢應該是好的，但這就是我想說的，沒有人真正關心它是一個不公平的優勢，否則我們就不會喜歡籃球，例如，如果你是高個子，我，你仍然可以進入NBA，如果你喜歡6 7以上，但如果你是低於6英尺和Phenomenal，這是一個籃球短。
No, this is football my shirt.

不，這是我的足球衫。
This is the Seahawks Okay, I don't know much about sports Yeah, well ask me about gender studies.

這是海鷹隊好吧，我不太懂體育是啊，那就問我性別研究方面的問題。
That's a different thing But let's say well because it's about sports, you know some of the logistics you have are like that are in sports come to play here and like I said a lot of sports is genetic advantage like Being born and having an aptitude for something shouldn't mean you can't do it No one like I said, no one wanted to make themselves not swim in the Olympics So so do you think that there should be one division and we just throw all men and women in the same division?

這是另一件事，但讓我們說好了，因為這是關於體育的，你知道你的一些後勤就像在體育界來這裡玩一樣，就像我說的，很多體育項目是遺傳優勢，就像出生和有某種天賦不應該意味著你不能做它，沒有人就像我說的，沒有人想讓自己不能在奧運會上游泳，所以你認為應該有一個部門，我們只是把所有的男人和女人扔在同一個部門嗎？
That's not what I said.

我不是這麼說的。
No, no, but I'm asking you.

不，不，但我在問你。
Is that what is that what you know?

這就是你所知道的嗎？
Why not I do think there is, you know some pros to having Two separate divisions for men and women.

為什麼不呢？我認為，你知道的，男女分賽制還是有好處的。
But like I said, honestly, I have what are the pros?

但就像我說的，說實話，我有什麼優點？
Honestly, I haven't given that enough thought to have like a Concrete stance on it that I would want to fully because I haven't done enough research or thought on it that that's fair So you think that there should be two divisions as of right now before I do a lot of like thinking about it Like I said, like I'd haven't put enough thought to it to me to give you a clear firm stance Oh, yeah, so I'm kind of think to think to this myself.

老實說，我還沒有充分考慮過這個問題，我還沒有想好具體的立場，因為我還沒有做足夠的研究或思考，這是不公平的，所以你認為現在應該有兩個部門，然後我做了很多思考，就像我說的，我還沒有把足夠的思考給你一個明確的立場。
So the reason and I'm could be totally I'm just trying to figure this out myself So the reason the reason that there are two divisions are because there must be certain Categories of things that different sexes are better at or there wouldn't be divisions in the first place unless it was just like some social convention You're not wrong there So Is it possible to abstract from that and say that that reason is what confers an advantage on somebody?

所以，之所以有兩種性別，是因為不同性別在某些方面更擅長，否則就不會有性別之分，除非是某種社會習俗，你說得沒錯，那麼，是否可以抽象地說，是這個原因賦予了某人優勢？
No, because you can have advantages over someone who's also the same gender as you just as a different gender does Gender is not the only factor that provides an advantage or not.

不是的，因為與同性別的人相比，你可以擁有優勢，就像不同性別的人一樣。
However, it's definitely one that contributes to an advantage you have right There's a trans swimmer in the Olympics.

不過，這絕對是你的優勢之一，因為奧運會上有一位變性游泳運動員。
She didn't win if if trans women really have a crazy crazy advantage on women Why didn't she do what a sweep mean win everything Sweep like I thought you may give her a mop and like sweep.

她沒有贏，如果變性女性真的對女性有瘋狂的優勢，她為什麼不做什麼，掃意味著贏得一切，掃就像我想你可能會給她一個拖把和像掃。
Oh, why didn't she win all the awards?

哦，為什麼她沒有贏得所有獎項？
Why didn't she win every race and why didn't she beat them by like seconds?

為什麼她沒有贏得每一場比賽，為什麼她沒有以幾秒鐘的差距擊敗他們？
Which is what she did get into the Olympics.

這就是她進入奧運會的原因。
She got into the Olympics.

她參加了奧運會。
She didn't win That's because she's a trained swimmer That's because she's been training to swim for as long as everyone else has it's what it makes sense You got into the Olympics.

那是因為她是個訓練有素的游泳運動員那是因為她和其他人一樣，一直在訓練游泳，這才是合理的。
She's been swimming at that time for her entire career But like I said, she didn't sweep.

她的整個職業生涯都是在那個時間段游泳，但正如我所說，她沒有橫掃。
She didn't have such a crazy advantage that she was Performing way above the ranks of the other women so even if it were shown that trans Women had distinct advantages That wouldn't be enough to move you to agree.

她並沒有那麼大的優勢，以至於她的表現遠遠高於其他女性，所以即使證明變性女性有明顯的優勢，也不足以讓你同意。
Yeah, because like I said this woman could have an advantage on another cis woman So, why should I care if a trans woman has an advantage on a cis woman when a cis woman could also have an advantage on another cis woman Like the fact that the trans doesn't really mean anything to me Like I said having a genetic advantage can and is a part of sports Okay, I think I understand their reasoning but I'm not positive I have a question for them so do you think that there could be like the women's group the man group and then People who are trans have their own category.

是的，就像我說的，這個女人可能比另一個同性女人更有優勢，所以，我為什麼要關心一個變性女人是否比同性女人更有優勢，因為一個同性女人也可能比另一個同性女人更有優勢。就像我說的，遺傳優勢可能是體育運動的一部分。好吧，我想我理解他們的推理，但我不確定，我有一個問題要問他們，你認為是否可以有像女性組、男性組這樣的類別，然後變性人有自己的類別。
Who's the question for which one either or?

是誰的問題？
Feel like those groups are just a nail Alienate them even more and just like put them off into a separate category because they don't belong in women or male They they are not being put properly into the groups that they identify with Do I don't know anything about sports as you know from not even knowing what that means there does see see Falcons or whatever But but my question is then don't isn't aren't there rule I thought there rules against like shooting yourself up with steroids aren't there?

我對體育一竅不通，你也知道，我甚至不知道那是什麼意思，但我的問題是，不是沒有規則嗎？
Yes So when you shoot yourself up with steroids, that must mean you have a competitive advantage.

是的，所以當你用類固醇給自己打針時，一定意味著你有競爭優勢。
So that's why they don't do it, right?

這就是他們不這麼做的原因，對嗎？
That shooting yourself up with steroids gives you a competitor I would assume or say wouldn't be a rule against it.

用類固醇給自己打針會讓你成為競爭者，我認為或說不會有規則禁止這樣做。
I Yes, there's there is a rule against using stare performance enhancing steroids But I don't think that's on the same level as hormone therapy No, no, that's not where I was going with it.

是的，有一條規定禁止使用能提高運動成績的類固醇，但我認為這與激素療法不在一個層次上。
So no I was going with it It's possible that there are certain things that one can do to yield an event a performance event.

所以，不，我想說的是，我們可以做一些事情，讓事件成為表演事件。
Yes.

是的。
Yes, so You shouldn't the idea be and again, I'm just thinking to this myself Shouldn't the idea be that we want to level the playing field to take out advantages for different people.

是的，所以你的想法不應該是，再說一遍，我只是在想我自己的想法不應該是，我們要公平競爭，為不同的人爭取優勢。
I Think like artificial advantages is what you're trying to say like Oh, oh, I'm sorry.

我覺得人工優勢就是你想說的哦，哦，對不起。
I thought you were waving to side thought you were waving to somebody.

我還以為你在向誰招手呢。
Well, first of all Seahawks got a rap Seahawks Their football team from Seattle's in Washington Who's the Know the person who throws the ball the QB.

首先，海鷹隊（Seahawks）是華盛頓州西雅圖市的橄欖球隊。
Who's the QB?

誰是四分衛？
No, but okay to go off her point I Like performance-enhancing drugs are obviously banned and it's because they enhance your performance.

沒有，但沒關係，從她的觀點來看，我喜歡提高成績的藥物顯然是被禁止的，這是因為它們能提高你的成績。
However, however If you have enough money, you can pay a coach to help advance your performance You know what?

但是，如果你有足夠的錢，你可以花錢請一個教練來幫助你提高成績，你知道嗎？
I mean?

我的意思是？
Like you there's specific training facilities There's specific programs that all cost money to access and by accessing those with money.

就像你一樣，有專門的培訓設施有專門的項目，這些都需要花錢才能使用，而使用這些項目都需要錢。
You also gain an advantage so it's not like These hormones so we should get it's not like because these hormones are only band becomes their performance enhancing They're also extremely harmful on people's bodies.

你也獲得了優勢，所以它不喜歡這些激素，所以我們應該得到它不喜歡，因為這些激素只帶成為他們的性能增強，他們也對人們的身體極為有害。
So we should give if that logic calls we should give all Non-trans women extra coaching to make up for the deficiencies.

是以，如果按照這種邏輯，我們應該給所有非變性婦女提供額外的輔導，以彌補她們的不足。
No, that's not what I'm saying I'm I'm furthering showing that there's already a discrepancy in sports If you're rich and can pay for equipment training facilities a training coach you're gonna do better than someone who can't and I'm not like the Russians and like the like the Russians in in in Cycling and weightlifting.

不，我不是這個意思，我是想進一步說明，在體育運動中已經存在差異。
Yeah, like most people in the Olympics most people in the Olympics have access to really good trainers and really good training and If everyone in the world was had access to that training I don't think the Olympics would look the same there'd be a lot of different people in there But they don't because because inequities like I said are inherently in sports.

是啊，就像奧運會上的大多數人一樣，奧運會上的大多數人都有機會接觸到非常好的教練和非常好的訓練，如果世界上每個人都有機會接觸到這樣的訓練，我想奧運會就不會是這個樣子了，會有很多不同的人参加奧運會，但他們沒有，因為不公平就像我說的那樣，是體育運動與生俱來的。
They're gonna be in sports no matter what Did that convince you?

無論如何，他們都會參加體育運動這讓你信服了嗎？
I kind of forgot So so the basically I do the idea is you can't control There are always going to be certain people who have advantages certain people have disadvantages and I don't want to mischaracterize your argument but the idea is that All right.

我有點忘了，所以基本上我的想法是，你無法控制總會有某些人有優勢，某些人有劣勢，我不想誤解你的論點，但我的想法是，好吧。
Well, you can come to the next one you go.

好吧，你可以下次再來。
All right.

好的
Well, I guess not that okay So the idea then is that if you're born to a rich family Advantages and if you're born to a poor family, you'll have Disadvantages so there are already inequities built into the system.

那麼，我們的想法是，如果你出生在富裕家庭，你就會有優勢；如果你出生在貧困家庭，你就會有劣勢。
So why worry about one more inequity?

那麼，為什麼還要擔心多一個不公平呢？
I think that's what you were saying.

我想這就是你要說的。
I Think the comparison between the Like wealth or someone or the advantages that they have are completely different than like people getting things like hormones and stuff like Genetically in them versus like being able to pay for a facility or something How does it make you feel if you compete against for example in lacrosse?

我認為，像財富或某人或他們擁有的優勢之間的比較，完全不同於像人們得到的東西，如激素之類的東西在他們的基因與像能夠支付的設施或東西，它是如何讓你覺得，如果你競爭，例如在曲棍球？
How does that make you feel if you Compete against someone born biological.

如果你與生來就是生物的人競爭，你會有什麼感覺？
Do you think that's an like you said, I don't want to put words in your mouth How's it make you feel?

你覺得這像你說的嗎，我不想把話說得太滿你有什麼感覺？
I would think it'd be unfair Especially if that male came from playing men's lacrosse Can I ask you it would seem like a really stupid question, but I'm gonna ask anyway What's wrong with it being unfair life is unfair.

我認為這是不公平的，尤其是如果該男子來自男子長曲棍球隊，我能問你一個非常愚蠢的問題嗎，但我還是要問，不公平有什麼錯？
Some people are born with like no legs I mean, that's true that life is unfair, but it's like it's the sport of lacrosse specifically what I'm talking about where there's the men's and the women's and they're very a lot of sports are very different men and women wise and Obviously, it's not always fair, but it's equally As fair when it's all women versus like the other side being all men versus all men all women versus all women If that makes sense, I yeah, it make it makes sense to me, but I don't not sure it makes sense to them Hi, you just joined Okay, they're gonna say some things in response to that if a girl went to a middle or high school where they didn't have a big sports fun and she paid on the male lacrosse team and then transferred to a school that had A girl's and boys lacrosse team and then she chose to play on the girls team after playing on the boys team No one care.

有些人天生就沒有腿，我是說，生活確實不公平，但就像我說的長曲棍球運動一樣，有男隊和女隊之分，很多運動都是男女有別的，很顯然，這並不總是公平的，但如果是全女性對陣全男性對陣全男性，全女性對陣全女性，這同樣是公平的，如果這能說得通的話、但我不確定這對他們是否有意義嗨，你剛加入好吧，他們會說一些迴應的話如果一個女孩去了一所沒有大型體育活動的國中或高中
No one care cuz she says they only care cuz she's trans No one no one really cares about you playing The man version of a sport if you're a girl and then you play the woman version later.

沒人在乎，因為她說他們只在乎她是變性人沒人在乎，如果你是個女孩，就玩男人版的運動，然後再玩女人版的。
They only care when you're trans Yeah, this transness the transness of this all is really what people get Oh If that were to be the case where I played a male sport and then went to a female sport I did not pump hormones in my body to genetically get me to a better place than playing with males Hi, you do hi, you do know that's what birth control is for right to pump estrogen To pump estrogen into your body so that you're actually physically able to do things and the point of a competitive sport is To be genetically better Than the other person take the Olympics for example there are cis women that are better than other cis women because they are genetically made to be that way and Putting natural hormones in your body.

他們只關心你是不是變性人對，變性人的變性才是真正的變性人如果是這樣，我參加了一項男性運動然後轉去參加一項女性運動把雌性激素注入你的身體這樣你的身體就能做一些事情而競技體育的意義就在於讓自己在基因上比其他人更優秀以奧運會為例有一些順性女性比其他順性女性更優秀因為她們在基因上就是這樣的
I hope you know that you as a cis woman also has Testosterone in your body as well as estrogen and progesterone.

我希望您知道，您作為順式女性，體內也有睪丸激素以及雌激素和孕激素。
How do you know?

你怎麼知道？
She's a cis woman.

她是個同志女性。
Are you a cis woman?

你是女性嗎？
Okay, I Didn't know that I did I can tell as You have like a gay DAR for cis women I do because I'm not a cis woman and I know what cis woman look like and act like And am I a cis woman?

好吧，我不知道我知道，我可以告訴你，你有一個像同志的DAR的順式婦女，我做的，因為我不是一個順式婦女，我知道順式婦女的樣子和行為，我是一個順式婦女嗎？
Um, you're not a cis woman, but if you're a woman, that's okay.

嗯，你不是順式女性，但如果你是女性，那也沒關係。
No, I'm a man Okay.

不，我是男人
Hello.

你好
What are your pronouns?

你的代詞是什麼？
I need time to think.

我需要時間思考。
All right, no problem.

好的，沒問題。
Anyways Sports that is the entire purpose of competitive sports and you just trying to justify your transphobia with the fact of being genetically better Personally I think they should have their own league.

不管怎麼說，體育是競技體育的全部目的，而你只是試圖用基因更好這一事實來證明你的變性恐懼症是正當的。
That's just me though in like Also like a separate category and anybody.

雖然這只是我的想法，但也像一個單獨的類別和任何人。
Yeah, I think there should be like male female trans woman trans man So are you yeah, yes, of course, I do want to say my opinion does not mean I'm transphobic at all What is that word even mean?

是的，我認為應該有男變女、女變男、男變女、女變男、男變男。
I don't what is that word even mean?

我不知道這個詞是什麼意思？
What is that word mean?

這個詞是什麼意思？
What do you mean?

什麼意思？
What does that word mean?

這個詞是什麼意思？
Well, if I say if she says to you if I say to you What is this and he says a blah blah blah and I say what do you mean?

好吧，如果我說，如果她對你說，如果我對你說，這是什麼，然後他說什麼什麼，我說你什麼意思？
They give me the definition.

他們給了我定義。
So like what is the definition of transphobia?

那麼，變性恐懼症的定義是什麼？
transphobia is when you exclude Trans people Transphobia is when you do not believe that trans people are really the identity they identify with Transphobia is hatred towards trans people Transphobia is prejudice against That's a transphobia is and thinking that trans athletes should not complete with Regular athletes and their own separately.

跨性別恐懼症是指你排斥跨性別者跨性別恐懼症是指你不相信跨性別者是他們真正認同的身份跨性別恐懼症是對跨性別者的憎恨跨性別恐懼症是對跨性別者的偏見這就是跨性別恐懼症，認為跨性別運動員不應該與普通運動員和他們自己的運動員分開。
It's transphobic.

這是變性恐懼症。
Okay, so do you need all three of those criteria to be met?

好吧，你需要滿足所有這三個標準嗎？
You need one.

你需要一個。
Yes So if I believe I just want to make sure because you use the term it's very important they're all on the same page So if I believe that a person who was born a man who has not had bottom surgery who got arrested should Go into a woman's prison who should not go into a woman's prison.

是的，所以如果我相信，我只是想確保，因為你使用了這個詞，這是非常重要的，他們都在同一頁上，所以如果我相信，一個人誰是天生的一個男人，沒有做過下部手術，誰被逮捕了，應該進入一個女人的監獄，誰不應該進入一個女人的監獄。
Am I a transphobe?

我是變性人嗎？
That is a completely different question, and I don't even know you but it's excluding though But I don't even know your reason for that.

這是個完全不同的問題，我甚至都不認識你，但這是排除在外的，但我甚至不知道你這樣做的原因。
Well, it's excluded.

嗯，不包括在內。
So I'm trying to figure out what the word transphobe means By asking me a completely hypothetical question when I know by asking you what you gave me definition But it meets the first one so that would seem under your definitions transphobic You have a definition.

所以我想弄明白 "變性人 "這個詞是什麼意思，問了我一個完全假設的問題，而我問了你之後就知道你給了我什麼定義，但它符合第一個定義，所以根據你的定義，似乎是 "變性人恐懼症"。
Okay.

好的
Hold on.

等一下
Hold on Hold on this fits me out.

等一下，等一下，這適合我。
We're not using a Google definition.

我們使用的不是谷歌的定義。
Hold on This is we're not using a Google definition to describe transphobia Cuz this is exactly like when you say why people can't be racist and they pulled the definition of racism and they're like, oh no It says Google definition it can literally not define something that you literally have spent years studying because you're a gender studies major, right?

因為這就像你說為什麼人們不能有種族主義，他們就會扯出種族主義的定義，然後他們就會說，哦，不，它說的是谷歌的定義，它根本無法定義你花了幾年時間研究的東西，因為你是性別研究專業的，對吧？
Not a major.

不是主修。
No major.

無專業
I'm one of the world's foremost experts Not leading.

我是世界上最重要的專家之一。
I'm in the top ten Okay, not leading men Not you're you're not a leading world gender study.

我是前十名好吧，不是領先的男人不是你，你不是領先的世界性別研究。
It's just a gender study Yes, but that proves that you've literally studied this like this is a field that can be not only have I studied it Published virtually everybody in my field in a ten-month period true not that's true.

這只是一個性別研究是的，但這證明，你已經從字面上研究了這一點，就像這是一個領域，可以不僅有我研究了它發佈幾乎每個人都在我的領域在十個月的時間真實的不是這樣的。
That's a fact.

這是事實。
That's unfair.

這不公平。
So But but hold on but that just shows you so you've spent a lot of your lifetime studying this field Yes, no about three years.

但是，等等，這說明你一生中花了很多時間研究這個領域是的，不，大約三年。
Okay, but you said multiple years studying this field.

好吧，但你說過要在這一領域學習多年。
Yes, would you say it's a complex field?

是的，你認為這是一個複雜的領域嗎？
Oh Yes, no, so you but you published multiple pieces of literature on it Obviously, it's not a one done thing if I could just go on to Google and Google's a bunch of different definitions Then what's the point of studying something?

哦，是的，不，所以你，但你發表了多篇關於它的文獻顯然，這不是一個一勞永逸的事情，如果我可以只去谷歌和谷歌的一堆不同的定義，那麼有什麼意義的研究的東西嗎？
We're saying something is because it's nuanced because it's rooted in a lot of history Google Translate Webster dictionary.

我們說的東西是因為它的細微差別，因為它植根於大量的歷史谷歌翻譯韋伯斯特字典。
Is it falsifiable?

是否可以證偽？
That's not my point right now.

這不是我現在要說的重點。
That's not my point right now.

這不是我現在要說的重點。
My point right now is that you cannot take a Cumulative history of a nuanced topic and put it into one system and Webster dictionary Google dictionary, I thought Google uses Webster Okay Hi.

我現在要說的是，你不能把一個有細微差別的話題的累積歷史放到一個系統裡，而韋伯斯特字典谷歌字典，我以為谷歌用的是韋伯斯特好吧，你好。
Hi.

你好。
I'm gonna speak to these two directly.

我要直接和這兩個人談談。
Okay when I called you a transphobe I meant it and the reason I'm saying that is because there's an underlying bias towards trans people that you really need to work on And I'm not what is that?

好吧，我說你是變性人是認真的，我之所以這麼說是因為你對變性人有一種潛在的偏見，你真的需要改正，而我不是，那是什麼？
What is an underlying bias?

什麼是潛在偏見？
Yeah.

是啊
What do you mean by that?

你這是什麼意思？
I mean exactly what I said that she has an underlying bias.

我的意思和我說的一樣，她有潛在的偏見。
It's not very difficult to understand Okay, pretend I'm stupid what does it mean Like so when I say I have another when someone says they have an underlying bias that could mean and a subconscious bias It could mean that they don't act like what does that mean?

這並不難理解好吧，假裝我很笨，那是什麼意思呢？比如說，當我說我有另一個偏見時，當有人說他們有潛在的偏見時，那可能是指潛意識的偏見，也可能是指他們的行為不像那是什麼意思？
Okay.

好的
I thought I was supposed to pretend that you're stupid Okay, here we go in other words explain it in a way that is crystal clear so that anybody watching this will understand Okay Because we have people watching this of all ages all everything who are trying to figure this out for themselves What is the goal of what's the goal of this of us talking like what what is your goal in doing all of this My goal is to figure out if the lines you're on are the lines that you should be on on the basis of the reasons you have so you don't even care about like Adding to the narrative understanding social consciousness or like social Feelings towards this question.

我以為我應該假裝你很蠢好吧換句話說，要解釋得清清楚楚好讓所有觀眾都能明白因為有很多人在看這個節目所有年齡段的人所有的人都在試圖自己搞清楚這個問題我們說這些的目的是什麼？
You just want to know if we get the facts straight enough to be on the correct line No, there's nothing to do with fat Well, it's a little to do with facts, but doesn't really have to do with facts as a reasoning So you're just curious on individual reasoning.

你只是想知道我們是否把事實搞清楚了，是否在正確的路線上不，這和胖沒關係嗯，這和事實有一點關係，但和作為推理的事實並沒有什麼關係所以你只是對個人的推理感到好奇。
I'm Curious to know So let's say for example, I was standing here in the neutral and I heard these These reasons and I heard this reasons and let's just say to the best extent possible.

我很想知道，比方說，我站在中立的立場上，聽到了這些理由，又聽到了這些理由，讓我們儘可能地說清楚。
I'm sincere I'm honest.

我是真誠的，我是誠實的。
I try to think for myself.

我試著為自己著想。
I'm Not really well read but I'm a little well read I listen to what you have to say I listen to what they have to say.

我讀書不多，但也算讀了一點書，我會聽你說的話，也會聽他們說的話。
Where should I go?

我應該去哪裡？
I Try to figure out what's true Because I don't know what you're adding to like the social Absolutely nothing I'm adding nothing So then why are you like because like this question just opens up the floor for like transphobic people to spread transphobic rhetoric So like why would you do that?

我試著弄清什麼是真的，因為我不知道你對社會做了什麼貢獻絕對沒有，我什麼也沒做，那你為什麼要這樣做，因為這個問題只會讓憎惡變性人的人散佈憎惡變性人的言論，那你為什麼要這樣做？
Like what is the point of this?

這有什麼意義？
Why why would you risk adding transphobia to the world when like you just like didn't need you?

為什麼你要冒著給世界增加變性恐懼症的風險，而你就像不需要你一樣？
So do you think these questions are better off not talked about no, I think they should be better facilitated What what what what what could I do to facilitate the question better?

那麼，你認為這些問題不談更好嗎？不，我認為應該更好地促進這些問題的討論。
Well have a clearer goal in mind like like I've asked you like what's your goal?

那麼，你心中要有一個更明確的目標，就像我問你的那樣，你的目標是什麼？
You go was just nothing like No one's gonna convince a transphobic person that trans women should be able to convene sports If they were gonna get me convinced of that they were I should have already been convinced by that.

如果他們要讓我相信這一點，他們應該已經讓我相信了。
It's been a big topic Clearly, I'm not gonna change my mind cuz I'm not gonna be like, oh, yeah, like let me be transphobic real quick Like you don't have a good goal.

顯然，這一直是個大話題，我不會改變我的想法，因為我不會說，哦，是的，讓我快速變性吧，就像你沒有一個好的目標一樣。
Okay, let me ask you a question Are you convinced that her her definition of transphobia is like to say that the exclusion thing was the thing that got me?

好吧，讓我問你一個問題你是否相信她對變性恐懼症的定義就像說排斥我這件事一樣？
Like if her definition of transphobia is correct No, no, it can be anything anybody wants it to be it can be a pastrami sandwiches if someone wants it to be I feel like Could you yeah, so she gave three criteria Anybody can define anything the way they want to define it No, they can't define it as a pastrami sandwich.

如果她對 "變性恐懼症 "的定義是正確的，不，不，它可以是任何人想要的任何東西，它可以是薰牛肉三明治，如果有人想要的話，我覺得你能不能是的，所以她給出了三個標準，任何人都可以用他們想要的方式定義任何東西，不，他們不能把它定義為薰牛肉三明治。
That's a joke.

這是個笑話。
Like that's literally a joke.

這簡直就是個笑話。
Like I'm sorry.

就像我很抱歉一樣。
That's a joke Anybody can define anything the way they want it.

這是一個笑話，任何人都可以按照自己的意願定義任何東西。
There's no But she tried to look it up in Google and you told her that wasn't how to adjudicate the meanings of words My Point in that was that Google definitions cannot adequately Describe and explain such a nuanced topic.

我的觀點是，谷歌定義無法充分描述和解釋如此微妙的話題。
I didn't say it can't be defined I just said that Google Google definitions wasn't gonna have a definition then who which definition is correct?

我沒說不能定義，我只是說 Google 谷歌定義不會有定義，那麼誰的定義是正確的呢？
How can I don't think there's ever the most concrete definitions when it comes to nuanced topics?

我怎麼會認為在涉及到細微的話題時，永遠沒有最具體的定義呢？
However, you can't just be defining words, however, you want and you know that for a fact they're Colloquially things mean things and colloquially we all know what that shit means.

然而，你不能只是定義單詞，不管你怎麼想，而且你知道事實上它們是口語化的東西，口語化的東西意味著什麼，我們都知道那是什麼意思。
You cannot describe it as a pastrami sandwich There is very clear parameters that you can work within it might even disagree on specific nuances But the overall like you can't just describe anything as anything words have meaning for a reason like man and woman Mmm Like I don't What is your point like what is your point like this is kind of a joke because you could just said I Know your point.

你不能把它說成是薰牛肉三明治有非常明確的參數，你可以在這個參數內工作，甚至可能在具體的細微差別上有分歧，但總的來說，就像你不能把任何東西說成是任何東西一樣詞語是有意義的，就像男人和女人一樣嗯，我不知道你的觀點是什麼，你的觀點是什麼，就像這是一個笑話，因為你可以直接說我知道你的觀點。
You just want to try to catch us in a contradiction and you have literally no reason to be doing this whatsoever You're trying that you're trying to you're trying to prove a gotcha Oh, you have no idea what you're talking about.

你只是想讓我們陷入自相矛盾的境地，你根本沒有理由這麼做，你只是想證明你在耍花招。
Silly liberals and you're silly trans people instead of just not being a dick I know you guys are like what what's the point of it my point for coming over here and being Participating in this is because I'm very open-minded and I like hearing other people's points of views and I'm not very I don't just shut people down when they have an opinion and start calling them names.

愚蠢的自由主義者和你們這些愚蠢的變性人，而不只是不做一個混蛋，我知道你們喜歡什麼，這有什麼意義，我來到這裡並參與其中的意義在於，我的思想非常開放，我喜歡聽取其他人的觀點，我不是一個非常我不會在人們有意見時就關閉他們並開始罵他們的人。
I'm not here to promote Transphobia at all that does not say are you transphobic or not in no way am I transphobic?

我不是來宣揚跨性別恐懼症的，這並不是說你是不是跨性別恐懼症，也不是說我是不是跨性別恐懼症？
I'm just stating my opinion trying to have an equally Conversation of a debate of a debate where we can just say how we feel and move on with our lives I don't think anyone should be attacking anyone.

我只是在陳述我的觀點，試圖進行一場平等對話的辯論，在辯論中，我們可以說出自己的感受，然後繼續生活，我認為任何人都不應該攻擊任何人。
Did you agree with what she said?

你同意她的話嗎？
Oh, absolutely.

哦，當然。
You want to add or if not, that's okay, too No, but I think people's height people's emotions get really heightened during topics like this Just because emotions are heightened doesn't mean points shouldn't be listened to because I see both of you You're turning to each other you're whispering you're laughing and I see both of you don't make that face because I literally see what you're Doing I'm not an idiot and second of all I can probably just describe transphobia Because you do not agree with her definition.

你想補充嗎？如果不想補充，也沒關係不，但我認為人們的情緒在這樣的話題中會變得非常高漲情緒高漲並不意味著不應該傾聽觀點，因為我看到你們倆你們轉向對方，你們竊竊私語，你們大笑，我看到你們倆不要做那個表情，因為我真的看到了你們在做什麼我不是白痴，其次，我也許可以描述一下跨性別恐懼症因為你不同意她的定義。
Oh, I completely agree.

哦，我完全同意。
I'm just adding to it.

我只是添油加醋而已。
So Transphobia is systemic There is a system set in place to put trans people down to kill them to put them in prison and to completely Eradicate them and in your agreeing or in your disagreement with trans women not being able to compete in women's sports is boosting that systemic Idealism and when I say that you're a transphobe That's something in yourself that you do need to work on because that can you define that?

是以，變性人恐懼症是系統性的，有一個系統設置在那裡，把變性人放倒，殺死他們，把他們關進監獄，並徹底根除他們，而你同意或不同意變性婦女不能參加女子體育比賽，是在助長這種系統性的理想主義，當我說你是一個變性人恐懼症患者時，這是你自己需要努力的事情，因為你能定義這一點嗎？
Can you define that what underlying no?

你能給 "不 "下個定義嗎？
No that I got from what you said?

我從你的話中聽不出來嗎？
I thought your explanation was excellent a transphobe because I got her definition.

我覺得你的解釋很好，因為我理解了她的定義。
What's yours transphobe is what I said So transphobe is someone that is adding to a system to put other trans individuals down whether it be Conscious or unconscious there's some sort of bias that you definitely do need to work through and actually listen to something We're saying it doesn't matter if we're getting heightened in emotion because we're passionate about something that should make you want to listen more And it shouldn't make you want to smirk and act like oh my goodness.

我說過，"變性人 "是指那些在某種系統中加入了貶低其他變性人的因素的人，無論是有意識的還是無意識的，都存在某種偏見，你肯定需要克服這種偏見，並真正傾聽我們所說的東西，如果我們因為對某件事情充滿熱情而情緒高漲，這並不重要，這應該會讓你更願意傾聽，而不應該讓你傻笑，表現出一副我的天哪的樣子。
You contradicted yourself.

你自相矛盾。
La la la la la Okay, so let me ask you a question.

啦啦啦啦好吧，我問你一個問題。
So you're strongly agree You're cheating you're off the line, but that's okay.

所以你非常同意你在作弊，你已經下線了，不過沒關係。
You're strongly agree and you're strongly agree What would it take you to move to the agree line?

您非常同意和非常同意您怎樣才能轉到 "同意 "一欄？
Let me let me go for I'm gonna go one two three because I haven't you asked me this already and I told you Nothing.

讓我走吧，我要走了一二三，因為你已經問過我了，我什麼都沒說。
Okay, what would it take you to move the agree line?

好吧，你要花多少錢才能移動同意線？
Absolutely.

當然。
Nothing.

什麼都沒有
Absolutely.

當然可以。
Nothing.

什麼都沒有
Would you say absolutely nothing or nothing?

你會完全不說還是什麼都不說？
Absolutely nothing.

完全沒有。
I Just said what I had to say.

我只是說了我想說的話。
Okay, I would be willing to revise my opinion with you know Information that comes out new studies new statistics saying if there is actually a true advantage that Transwomen have over cis women in sports But as of right now, there's nothing that could that is prominent like as in what we know that would change my position Why do you think you should be the one to facilitate this conversation when you don't even care about sports?

好吧，我願意修改我的觀點，你知道的資訊，出來新的研究，新的統計說，如果實際上有一個真正的優勢，變性婦女有超過順式婦女在運動中，但就目前而言，沒有什麼，可能是突出的，就像在我們所知道的，會改變我的立場，為什麼你認為你應該是一個促進這場談話，當你甚至不關心體育？
I know nothing about sports.

我對體育一無所知。
So you don't care about sports.

所以你不關心體育。
So why well, that's not entirely true Wait a second, let me let me answer your question first I actually happen to know a lot about one sport, but it's a very fringe sport, but you don't care about sports Correct.

那麼，為什麼呢？等一下，讓我先回答你的問題，其實我碰巧非常瞭解一項運動，但這是一項非常邊緣的運動，但你並不關心體育。
I well, I don't care about any sports with a ball.

我對任何帶球的運動都不感興趣。
Do you care about trans women?

你關心變性婦女嗎？
What do you mean do you care about trans women and trans women issues like give me any like what do you mean and Protecting trans women.

你關心變性婦女和變性婦女問題是什麼意思？
What do you mean?

什麼意思？
What do I mean?

什麼意思？
It's a straightforward question.

這是一個簡單明瞭的問題。
It's actually not a straight Do you do you care about trans women?

你關心變性婦女嗎？
Do you care about their the issues they face?

你關心他們面臨的問題嗎？
Do you care about being a good ally to trans women?

你關心成為變性女性的好盟友嗎？
Do you care about trans women?

你關心變性婦女嗎？
Um, I was up with you until you use the word ally I care about So the answer to the first question is yes, and the answer to the second question.

所以第一個問題的答案是肯定的，第二個問題的答案也是肯定的。
It depends what you mean It depends on what I mean by ally.

這取決於你的意思這取決於我所說的盟友是什麼意思。
Yes What do you what do you think ally means as someone who's I'm not a leading top But someone in the field, what do you think so just let me just say Often we use words that we think we know what other people means I'm asked Allies an easy word to understand how I mean At your biblical age.

你認為盟友是什麼意思？我不是頂尖人物，但我是這個領域的人，你怎麼看？
Are you 55?

你是 55 歲嗎？
Biblical are you telling me biblical?

你是在告訴我聖經嗎？
It means you're older than the Bible.

這意味著你比《聖經》更古老。
Do you really not?

你真的不知道嗎？
Not that old do you really not know what ally it depends what you mean if you mean Different people mean different things by ally Like it doesn't mean somebody willing to I'm asking you.

你真的不知道什麼是盟友嗎？這要看你是什麼意思，如果你是說不同的人對盟友有不同的理解，比如它並不意味著有人願意，我在問你。
What do you think?

你怎麼看？
Like what's your definition of ally?

比如你對盟友的定義是什麼？
Okay, I'm more than happy.

好吧，我非常高興。
Yes.

是的。
I will answer that question.

我來回答這個問題。
Let me just we'll go back to claim you have my word I will answer that question.

我向你保證，我會回答這個問題。
So I'm just gonna wrap up you have my word So you guys there's nothing to get you to change your mind and absolutely nothing Is there anything that would get you to to move to the slightly Either to the strongly disagree or to the slightly disagree Like is there any piece of evidence that you would have to hear or reason or argument?

所以，我只是要去收尾你有我的話，所以你們有什麼讓你改變主意，絕對沒有什麼，有什麼會讓你移動到略有要麼到強烈不同意或到略有不同意
I?

I?
Think I would definitely be open to changing my opinion or even just hearing other people out So what would it look like for you to move?

我想我一定會願意改變自己的觀點，甚至聽取其他人的意見。
Oh, you have to play by the rules of the game, which means you have to stand on a line.

哦，你必須遵守遊戲規則，這意味著你必須站在一條線上。
Yeah So what would it take for you to move to the slightly disagree?

是啊，那你要怎樣才能轉到稍有異議的地方呢？
I Am evidence reason data like what would that look like?

我的證據理由數據是什麼樣的？
I'm not sure but I would like to note that I think for a trans woman to compete and women's sports She has a biological advantage and then for a trans man to compete in men's sports.

我不確定，但我想指出的是，我認為變性女性參加女子運動競賽具有生理優勢，而變性男性參加男子運動競賽則具有生理優勢。
She has a biological disadvantage so I'm just want to make that point that I do think that's something to consider and I don't agree with Attacking people personally whether it's that he's old or that I'm sitting here Smiling.

她在生理上處於劣勢，所以我只想說明一點，我確實認為這是需要考慮的問題，而且我不同意對他人進行人身攻擊，不管是說他老了，還是說我坐在這裡微笑。
I don't think that anything to do with this conversation has to do with how you treat other people And if you're gonna sit here and say you accept all people then you need to sit here and accept all people.

如果你想坐在這裡說你接受所有人，那你就得坐在這裡接受所有人。
I Don't accept bigots.

我不接受偏執狂。
I don't accept accept racist old people.

我不接受種族主義的老人。
Yeah old people like you because you're an ass I accept older people who are open-minded like my parents for say who are actually older than you and I accept people who are Willing to actually open their minds up Okay, so you you accept you you you're accepting of people who are willing to open their minds But yet you are not willing to open your mind for evidence that would take you to go to the agree line I'm not willing to open my mind to be a bigoted piece of shit.

是的，像你這樣的老人，因為你是個混蛋，我接受像我父母這樣思想開放的老人，因為他們實際上比你年長，我接受那些願意真正敞開心扉的人好吧，所以你接受你接受願意敞開心扉的人，但你卻不願意敞開心扉去接受證據，因為證據會讓你走到同意線，我不願意敞開心扉去做一個偏執的狗屎。
No Anyone who does not have the same opinion as you is a bigoted Compete in women's sports has transphobic beliefs point-blank period trans women are Women, therefore they compete in women's sports.

不，任何與你觀點不一致的人都是偏執狂參加女子體育競賽的人都有變性恐懼症，因為變性女性是女性，所以她們要參加女子體育競賽。
Like that's really just like the end of conversation like there's really no like It's all based in transphobia, so I would it's not about like me believing in facts, it's not about me listening to the research It's literally just called like I'm saying this line because I refuse to be transphobic.

就像這真的只是談話的結束，就像真的沒有像這一切都基於變性恐懼症，所以我會這不是關於像我相信事實，這不是關於我聽研究，這簡直就是所謂的像我說這行，因為我拒絕變性恐懼症。
Also, you never answered my question I told I promised you I would at the end.

還有，你從來沒有回答過我的問題，我說過我答應過你最後會回答的。
I promise you have my word, but I just because if I do this We're gonna wrap it up.

我向你保證，但我只是因為如果我這樣做，我們要把它包起來。
I promise you the moment.

我向你保證
This is over.

結束了
You have my word I want to talk to you about by all of them Yes, these two the one that's on her phone and not actually paying attention to me because she doesn't respect me Speak through it.

我向你保證，我想和你談談所有的人，是的，這兩個一個是在她的手機上，並沒有真正注意到我因為她不尊重我通過它說話。
So no because I deserve to be respected and paid attention to no I will not take that blatant disrespect.

所以不行，因為我應該受到尊重和關注，我不能接受這種公然的不尊重。
Absolutely not.

絕對不行。
You want to bring up biology, right?

你想提起生物學，對吧？
I hope you know, there's more than just XX and XY chromosome variations.

我希望你知道，染色體變異不僅僅只有 XX 和 XY 兩種。
There are XX XY There are XX Y and actually a black woman who is biologically female has XX XY Chromosomes and then was banned from playing sports in the women's category Although which sport it was track and field Although she is a cisgender woman born with by a lot anatomically female body bodily organs She was said that there was a biological advantage So are you saying that anyone born with a different chromosomal variation?

有 XX XY，也有 XX Y，實際上，一名黑人婦女在生物學上是女性，但她有 XX XY 染色體，然後被禁止參加女子組的體育運動，雖然她是一名順性別女性，但在解剖學上，她的身體器官很多都是女性的，有人說她在生物學上有優勢。
Even though they are sis are not allowed to compete in sports either I'm gonna ask you Where did you come from?

我想問你，你從哪裡來？
Who are you?

你是誰？
Wait a second.

等一下
Who are you?

你是誰？
Where did you come from?

你從哪裡來？
Where did the woman who was right there stand?

那個女人站在哪裡？
Where did she go?

她去哪兒了？
It is well talk to your school talk to your school they're making us leave talk to her right there All right Okay, we're being asked to wrap up we have to wrap up we have to wrap up You can I can't this is you I didn't want this to end this is the boss this is the boss You

好吧，我們被要求收尾我們必須收尾，我們必須收尾你可以，我不能，這是你的我不想這樣結束，這是老闆，這是老闆，你可以嗎？