We're back with Bill Gates.

我們又回到了比爾-蓋茨。

You have a new Netflix docuseries.

你有一部新的 Netflix 特輯。

It's called What's Next?

下一步是什麼？

The Future with Bill Gates.

與比爾-蓋茨共創未來

And in one episode, which fascinated me, is that you talk to Bernie Sanders.

其中有一集讓我非常著迷，就是你和伯尼-桑德斯的對話。

Now, Bernie Sanders does not say great things about the fact that there are billionaires.

現在，伯尼-桑德斯並沒有對億萬富翁這一事實大加讚賞。

He doesn't believe there's any reason there should be billionaires.

他認為沒有任何理由應該有億萬富翁。

How do you, some people agree with him right here.

怎麼會這樣，有些人就在這裡同意他的觀點。

Sure.

當然。

What's it like hanging with Bernie for you?

你和伯尼在一起是什麼感覺？

Well, he's kind of predictable.

嗯，他還挺容易預測的。

He wishes we were rich enough that we could be more generous.

他希望我們足夠富有，可以更加慷慨。

And so how do you raise that revenue without destroying the capitalistic system that makes the US the envy of the world?

那麼，如何在不破壞讓美國成為世界羨慕對象的資本主義制度的情況下增加收入呢？

So for that episode on inequality, I talked to Mitt Romney.

是以，關於不平等的那一集，我採訪了米特-羅姆尼。

I talked to Bernie Sanders.

我和伯尼-桑德斯談過了。

I get these different viewpoints.

我得到了這些不同的觀點。

I told Bernie that I would make the tax system more progressive.

我告訴伯尼，我會讓稅收制度更具累進性。

I would have paid twice as much in taxes.

我本來要交兩倍的稅。

But I would still be a billionaire.

但我仍然會是億萬富翁。

So he would get rid of 99% of my money.

這樣，他就能拿走我 99% 的錢。

I'd only get rid of 50% of it.

我只處理掉其中的 50%。

But if you got rid of 99% of your money, you'd still be a multi-billionaire.

但是，如果你拿出 99% 的錢，你還是會成為億萬富翁。

No, no, no.

不，不，不

You have $138 billion, and I can do math.

你有 1380 億美元，我會算數。

Right, if you get rid of 99%, I'd have $1.3 billion.

對，如果去掉 99%，我就有 13 億美元。

I'm so sorry.

真對不起

I'm, I wouldn't want anyone, I wouldn't want anyone to have only $1.3 billion.

我不希望任何人只有 13 億美元。

That's what Bernie said.

伯尼就是這麼說的。

What are we talking, Mark Cuban money here?

我們在說什麼，馬克-庫班的錢嗎？

Love you, Mark.

愛你，馬克

It's a tough life.

這是一種艱難的生活。

Love you, Mark.

愛你，馬克

Do you think, do you think I would enjoy being a billionaire?

你覺得，你覺得我會喜歡當億萬富翁嗎？

Yes.

是的。

You think I would enjoy it?

你覺得我會喜歡嗎？

Well, yeah, yeah.

嗯，是的，是的。

Because I'm telling you, for the price, the low, low price of $1 billion, I'm willing to disagree with Bernie Sanders right here and right now.

因為我告訴你，只要付出 10 億美元的低廉代價，我願意在此時此地與伯尼-桑德斯意見相左。

What's the best thing about being a billionaire?

成為億萬富翁的最大好處是什麼？

I'd say two things.

我想說兩件事。

One is you don't have to worry.

一是你不必擔心。

You know, you can send your kids to any school.

你知道，你可以把孩子送到任何學校。

You know, you're not going to have any problems.

你知道，你不會有任何問題的。

And if you're charitably minded, then you can pick things you believe in, malnutrition, whatever it is, the cause you want to work on.

如果你心存善念，那麼你可以選擇你相信的事情，營養不良，不管是什麼，你想做的事情。

And you can be incredibly generous and help, help improve things.

你可以慷慨解囊，幫助改善一切。

And you're planning on giving most of the money away, right?

你打算把大部分錢捐出去，對嗎？

Don't you have, I forget what it is.

你沒有嗎，我忘了是什麼了。

You and a bunch of other billionaires have got this sort of charity pledge that you've, you've What does the pledge actually say?

你和其他一些億萬富翁都有這樣的慈善承諾，你，你的承諾到底是怎麼說的？

Yeah, it's called the giving pledge.

是的，這就是所謂的 "捐贈承諾"。

You know, I've committed to give over 95% of my money away.

你知道，我已經承諾把我 95% 以上的錢都捐出去。

To join the pledge, you only have to commit to give the majority away.

要加入承諾，您只需承諾捐出大部分。

Okay, 51% and above.

好吧，51%及以上。

There you go.

這就對了。

Yep, that's it.

沒錯，就是這樣。

Wow.

哇

So a lot of people these days are concerned about the rise of AI.

是以，如今很多人都在關注人工智能的崛起。

Does it frighten you?

你害怕嗎？

Does it worry you, AI?

你擔心嗎，人工智能？

Somewhat.

有點。

What worries you about it?

你擔心什麼？

Like our robot overlords rising up to enslave us?

比如我們的機器人霸主起來奴役我們？

Or the fact that we'll kind of get intellectually lazy and the evolution of our own intellect will stop because we're outsourcing that need to a machine?

或者說，我們會在智力上變得懶惰，我們自身智力的進化會停止，因為我們把這種需求外包給了機器？

Well, it's, it's the first technology that has no limit.

嗯，這是，這是第一項沒有限制的技術。

I mean, when you invent a tractor or even a cell phone, you kind of figure out, okay, that's, we can figure out how that's going to change life.

我的意思是，當你發明拖拉機甚至手機時，你就會想，好吧，我們可以想想這將如何改變生活。

Here, where the AI is very intelligent and when you put it in robotic form, it can do a lot of both blue collar and white collar jobs.

在這裡，人工智能非常智能，當你把它變成機器人的形式時，它可以做很多藍領和白領的工作。

The fact that's happening over the next decade, the idea of do we really trust government to adjust the tax policies and make sure that, you know, okay, we're shortening the work week.

事實上，在未來十年中，我們是否真的相信政府會調整稅收政策，並確保，你知道，好吧，我們正在縮短工作周。

So it's happening very fast and it's unlimited.

是以，它發生得非常快，而且是無限的。

A lot of it is super good.

其中很多內容都超級棒。

Like, you know, inner city personal tutors for all the kids, great healthcare, even in the poor countries.

比如，你知道的，市內所有孩子都有私人教師，即使在貧窮國家也有很好的醫療保健。

So the good stuff, which maybe gets crowded out by these fears, that's so exciting and, you know.

所以，那些美好的東西，也許會被這些恐懼排擠掉，但它們是如此令人興奮，你知道的。

That's also not a personal relationship, it's AI.

這也不是個人關係，而是人工智能。

It reminds me of the sort of the cruel experiments with the baby monkeys who had a bottle that was wrapped in carpet to simulate a mommy and a bottle that was just on a wire frame and they both got food, but the wire frame monkeys died from the lack of warmth that they wanted from a physical mother.

這讓我想起了用小猴子做的殘酷實驗，小猴子的奶瓶用地毯包裹著，模擬出媽媽的樣子，而奶瓶只是放在一個鐵絲網架上，它們都能吃到食物，但鐵絲網架上的小猴子卻因缺乏溫暖而死去，因為它們想要從有形的媽媽那裡得到溫暖。

An AI teacher isn't a human being who can perceive my needs and a doctor, even though AI has no bedside manner to understand to see the person who needs the help, isn't there also a bit of a rhesus monkey danger there?

人工智能老師不是人，他無法感知我的需求，而醫生，即使人工智能沒有床邊的態度，無法理解看到需要幫助的人，不也有一點獼猴的危險嗎？

Probably not.

可能不會。

I had examples, you just said no.

我有例子，你卻說沒有。

The ideal for learning is to have a personal tutor who understands your motivation, who's seen what you're getting right and wrong.

學習的理想狀態是有一個私人教師，他能理解你的學習動機，並能看到你學習的對錯。

And the AIs can learn from the very best personal tutors.

而人工智能可以向最優秀的個人導師學習。

You know, until you use this stuff, it's pretty surprising.

要知道，在你使用這東西之前，它是非常令人驚訝的。

You know, it was two years ago when I first saw this chat GPT and it was kind of mind blowing because that came kind of all of a sudden.

你知道，兩年前我第一次看到 GPT 聊天工具時，感覺很震撼，因為它來得太突然了。

And yes, it's ability to learn from the best and provided by some, be there 24 hours a day.

是的，我們有能力向最優秀的人學習，有些人還提供了 24 小時全天候服務。

I mean, to have your mental health advisor there 24 hours a day, to have your personal tutor immediately giving you feedback, there's been a lot of science fiction movies like her where you really are, you are connected.

我的意思是，讓你的心理健康顧問一天 24 小時在你身邊，讓你的私人教師立即給你反饋，有很多像她這樣的科幻電影，在那裡你真的是，你是連接在一起的。

Yes.

是的。

Well, Bill, thanks so much for stopping by.

比爾，非常感謝你的來訪。

Thanks for your efforts to make it a better planet.

感謝你們為讓地球變得更美好所做的努力。

You can read the 2024 goalkeepers report on the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation website.

您可以在比爾及梅林達-蓋茨基金會網站上閱讀《2024 守門員報告》。

There's the QR code.

還有二維碼。

Bill Gates, everybody.

比爾-蓋茨，所有人。

We'll be right back with Dr. Jane Goodall.

簡-古道爾博士馬上回來。