Oh, okay.

哦，好吧

What brought you to China?

你為什麼來中國？

I was working for a zipper factory there as a COO and for a while working there inside of a factory.

我曾在那裡的一家拉鍊工廠擔任首席運營官，並在工廠內部工作過一段時間。

I saw the real part of China, came back to Taiwan, my fever was insane, to really go to a real hospital, and the doctor said,

我看到了中國真正的部分，回到臺灣後，我發燒發得很厲害，真的去了真正的醫院，醫生說、

Kyle, if you didn't come back in eight hours, you'd be dead.

凱爾，如果你八小時內不回來 你就死定了

So you've been in Taiwan for 13 years?

這麼說你在臺灣待了 13 年？

Yeah.

是啊

And I've never been back to Canada.

我從未回過加拿大。

I'm Taiwanese.

我是臺灣人。

I do consider myself Taiwanese, and I will live here until the day I die.

我確實認為自己是臺灣人，我會在這裡生活到死。

Cole Fogel here, and today I am with,

我是科爾-福格爾，今天和我在一起的是

I'll just let you introduce yourself.

我先讓你自我介紹一下。

My name is Kyle McDonald.

我叫凱爾-麥克唐納。

Where are you from originally?

你來自哪裡？

So, like yourself, I'm from Canada, but I'm from the East Coast.

和你一樣，我也來自加拿大，但我來自東海岸。

Not Prince Edward Island.

不是愛德華王子島。

Nova Scotia.

新斯科舍省

Nova Scotia, close.

靠近新斯科舍省

It's a peninsula, so it's on the East Coast of Canada, and it's part of the Maritime Provinces, so if you're familiar with the Titanic movie, or the event,

它是一個半島，所以位於加拿大東海岸，是濱海省的一部分，所以如果你熟悉《泰坦尼克號》電影或事件的話、

Yeah.

是啊

the people from my hometown went to rescue those people, and a lot of those people settled in my hometown because they were en route to go to New York and start a new life there, but they figured that my hometown treated them so well that they wanted to settle there.

我家鄉的人去營救那些人，其中很多人在我的家鄉定居，因為他們正準備去紐約，在那裡開始新的生活，但他們覺得我的家鄉待他們很好，所以想在那裡定居。

The other big thing that came out of my hometown, there's a few actually, is the Halifax Explosion.

我家鄉的另一件大事是哈利法克斯大爆炸（Halifax Explosion）。

So that was the world's largest explosion in human history before the atomic bomb.

是以，這是在原子彈之前人類歷史上最大的一次爆炸。

When was that?

什麼時候的事？

1917.

1917.

Wow.

哇

Yeah, and so two ships collided in the harbor, destroyed three cities around it, then there was a shockwave that went for tens of kilometers around.

是的，兩艘船在港口相撞，摧毀了周圍的三座城市，然後產生的衝擊波波及周圍數十公里。

The shockwave was caused just from the ships hitting each other, or was there something on the ships that caused it?

衝擊波是戰艦相互撞擊產生的，還是戰艦上有什麼東西造成的？

One ship was carrying caustic chemicals, very corrosive, and the other ship was carrying TNT.

一艘船運載的是腐蝕性很強的腐蝕性化學品，另一艘船運載的是梯恩梯。

Okay, so.

好吧

Yeah.

是啊

Oh, man.

天啊

Yeah, and what's the first thing that happens when you hear such a big explosion outside your house?

是啊，當你聽到屋外發生這麼大的爆炸時，第一反應是什麼？

Go to your window.

前往你的窗口。

So they went to the windows, the glass blew in, and immediately we had the world's largest group of blind people that the world has ever seen.

於是，他們走到窗戶前，玻璃被吹了進來，隨即，我們迎來了世界上有史以來最大的盲人群體。

So we created.

是以，我們創建了

Interesting.

有意思

Yeah, so in 1918, in March the following year, we created what's called the Canadian National Institute of the Blind.

是的，所以在 1918 年，也就是第二年的 3 月，我們成立了所謂的加拿大國家盲人協會。

Growing up where I did in Nova Scotia,

我在新斯科舍長大、

I mean, in a park like this, the road behind us there, after 5 p.m. you wouldn't be able to see that far because it's just covered in fog.

我的意思是，在這樣一個公園裡，我們身後的那條路，下午5點以後，你就看不到那麼遠了，因為它被霧籠罩著。

Oh, interesting.

哦，有意思。

And it rains every day.

而且每天都下雨。

Rainy, foggy Nova Scotia.

雨霧瀰漫的新斯科舍。

Yep, yeah, and you can't use an umbrella because the wind is too strong, it'll break your umbrella, so you just, you deal with it.

是的，是的，你不能用雨傘，因為風太大了，會把你的雨傘吹壞的，所以你只能自己解決。

Interesting.

有意思

So, but because of that, a lot of people have seasonal depression.

是以，很多人都有季節性抑鬱症。

Nova Scotia is pretty famous for pirates as well.

新斯科舍省的海盜也相當有名。

Like, we have the home of the blue nose, which is on the Canadian dime.

比如，我們有 "藍鼻子 "的故鄉，而 "藍鼻子 "是用加拿大一毛錢買的。

Oh, yeah, the Canadian.

哦，對了，加拿大人。

Right, so, and so Nova Scotians, you can call us blue nosers because we would go out to sea and we'd get really cold, and our nose would turn blue.

對，所以，新斯科舍人，你可以叫我們藍鼻涕蟲，因為我們會出海，我們會變得非常冷，我們的鼻子會變成藍色。

When you think of Canada, and I think people watching would agree, you don't think of pirates.

當你想到加拿大時，我想觀眾們也會同意，你不會想到海盜。

Right, yeah, but we're,

是的，是的，但我們、

We have a history of pirates.

我們有海盜的歷史。

We do, yeah, that's right.

是的，沒錯。

It said on Georgia's Island, we used to hang the pirates there.

上面說，在喬治亞島，我們曾經在那裡絞死過海盜。

We have a big citadel on top of a hill called Citadel Hill, which would have guns aimed at the harbor ready for pirates at any time.

我們在一座叫城堡山的山頂上有一座大城堡，城堡上的大炮瞄準港口，隨時準備對付海盜。

The Maritimes is that it has a connection to Al Capone, actually.

實際上，Maritimes 與 Al Capone 有關。

So, Prince Edward Island, which you had just mentioned a little bit earlier, a lot of the houses there are built using the whiskey crates from Al Capone because he would send the whiskey up the coast into Prince Edward Island.

所以，你剛才提到的愛德華王子島，那裡的很多房子都是用阿爾-卡彭的威士忌酒箱建造的，因為他會把威士忌酒沿著海岸線運到愛德華王子島。

You're talking when people couldn't drink.

你說的是人們不能喝酒的時候。

That's right, prohibition time.

沒錯，禁酒時間到了。

Yeah, prohibition, yeah.

是啊，禁酒令，是啊。

He would undock the crates and then put it in a false bottom boat and send it back down to the United States.

他把板條箱卸下，然後裝進一艘假底船，運回美國。

The wood would stay on the beach and people, scavengers, would use that to build their houses and stuff.

這些木頭會留在海灘上，人們和拾荒者會用它們來建造房屋和其他東西。

Are you a history buff?

您是歷史愛好者嗎？

Because the way you're talking, it sounds like you could have been a history teacher.

因為從你說話的語氣聽起來，你本可以成為一名歷史老師。

I wanted to be Indiana Jones growing up as a kid.

我從小就想成為奪寶奇兵。

Okay, I knew we had something in common.

好吧，我就知道我們有共同點。

Yeah, so I did go to university for ancient history, Canadian history, and I read a lot and spent a lot of time in the library.

是的，我上過大學，學的是古代史和加拿大史，我讀了很多書，在圖書館待了很長時間。

And I used to raise money for myself because my parents didn't have a lot of money and I didn't have any, of course.

我曾經為自己籌錢，因為我的父母沒有很多錢，當然我也沒有。

So I used to scavenge trash as a kid.

所以我小時候經常撿垃圾。

And I came across a church one time that had big black garbage bags full of every National Geographic from 1886 to 1994.

有一次，我在一個教堂裡看到一個黑色的大垃圾袋，裡面裝滿了從 1886 年到 1994 年的所有《國家地理雜誌》。

And they were just gonna throw it away.

他們只是想把它扔掉

Yeah, so I took them all home.

是的，所以我把它們都帶回了家。

So you said you have First Nation background.

你說你有原住民背景。

Right.

對

Which would be like similar to those that don't know what that is to being a aboriginal in Taiwan.

這就好比那些不知道臺灣原住民是什麼的人一樣。

On my father's side, we're Métis, so they have my color hair, which is like a sandy blonde and brown.

我父親那邊，我們是梅蒂斯人，所以他們的頭髮顏色和我一樣，都是金黃色和棕色。

And my color eyes, which would be like green, blue, gray.

我的眼睛顏色有綠色、藍色和灰色。

And actually speak French as well on that side.

實際上，那邊也會說法語。

Oh, okay.

哦，好吧

But my mom's side is Mi'kmaq, so we have dark color eyes and my mom had pitch black hair also.

但我媽媽那邊是米克馬克人，所以我們的眼睛是深色的，我媽媽的頭髮也是黑黝黝的。

Growing up as a kid, I had 390 brothers and sisters.

小時候，我有 390 個兄弟姐妹。

My family, they did what we call small options.

我的家人，他們做了我們所說的 "小選擇"。

If you're familiar with the term like foster care, for example.

如果你熟悉寄養之類的術語。

Of course, yeah.

當然

So we did foster care, respite, and small options.

是以，我們做了寄養、臨時看護和一些小的選擇。

Oh, they took care of different like kids.

哦，他們像照顧孩子一樣照顧不同的人。

So my family is more peculiar because we would take care of the most at risk or disadvantaged or troubled or severe disability children.

所以，我的家庭比較特殊，因為我們會照顧最危險、最弱勢、最有問題或嚴重殘疾的孩子。

So kids that came from broken homes, kids that even had a fire in the house that had no place to put them.

是以，孩子們來自破碎的家庭，甚至家裡失火也沒有地方安置他們。

You grew up with these kind of kids.

你就是和這樣的孩子一起長大的

Yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊。

I also did other work at the same time.

同時，我還做了其他工作。

Like I also lived part of my life in a funeral home.

就像我也曾在殯儀館生活過一段時間一樣。

So my dad was the driver for a hearse.

所以我爸爸是靈車司機。

So if you die, my dad would be the guy that drives the hearse to take your body to our house where people would wash you, give you a change of clothes, do your makeup.

所以，如果你死了，我爸爸會是那個開靈車把你的遺體運到我們家的人，在那裡人們會給你洗衣服，給你換衣服，給你化妝。

Were you around the carcasses, the dead bodies?

你當時在屍體周圍嗎？

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

是的，是的，是的，當然。

It was normal for you?

你覺得正常嗎？

Yeah, yes.

是啊，是啊。

And I found that dead people are very good listeners.

我發現，死人是很好的傾聽者。

They don't talk back and they keep all your secrets.

他們不會頂嘴，會保守你所有的祕密。

Hold on a second.

等一下

Did living in that environment, have you made more peace with the concept of death?

生活在這樣的環境中，你是否對死亡的概念更加平靜？

Well, I've never seen a ghost.

我從沒見過鬼

So I don't believe in ghosts at all.

所以我根本不相信有鬼。

And I think the concept of death for me is more, yeah, I would say it's peaceful, but also like it's like another step to a new journey.

我認為死亡的概念對我來說更多的是，是的，我會說它是平靜的，但也像是邁向新旅程的另一步。

I feel that way too.

我也有這種感覺。

I've had kids and things that have passed away in my home.

我家裡有過世的孩子和東西。

So it was my job to get some of these kids up and get them showered or help them with their wheelchair in the morning, things like that.

是以，我的工作就是讓一些孩子起床，幫他們洗澡，或者早上幫他們搬輪椅，諸如此類。

And I go in, unfortunately, I find they passed away.

不幸的是，我進去後發現他們已經去世了。

So I've been through a lot as a kid, yeah.

所以我小時候經歷了很多，是的。

I changed to an adult, I would say, from a very young age.

我可以說，從很小的時候起，我就變成了一個成年人。

Taiwan, the first place you lived in Asia, actually lived?

臺灣，你在亞洲生活的第一個地方，真的生活過嗎？

So I lived in China for a little while as well.

所以我也在中國住過一段時間。

I lived in Jiangsu.

我在江蘇生活過。

What brought you to China?

你為什麼來中國？

Like what was, why did you choose to live there as opposed to visit?

比如，你為什麼選擇住在那裡而不是去旅遊？

I was working for a zipper factory there as a COO and slash CTO.

我當時在一家拉鍊廠擔任首席運營官和首席技術官。

And we had a few thousand employees there.

我們在那裡有幾千名員工。

So I lived there for a while, working there inside of a factory.

所以我在那裡住了一段時間，在一家工廠裡工作。

I saw the real part of China.

我看到了真實的中國。

So I would say that China, they've got what I refer to as like postcard cities.

是以，我認為中國有我所說的明信片城市。

Postcard cities would be like your Qingdao, Shanghai,

明信片城市就像你們的青島和上海、

Beijing, Guangzhou, Guangdong, Ningbo, those big places like you would see on a postcard.

北京、廣州、廣東、寧波，這些大地方就像你在明信片上看到的一樣。

And they're beautiful metropolises and things like that.

它們都是美麗的大都市，諸如此類。

But I lived in the real China and I would drive my scooter around town and I saw landfills where there would be an literal ocean of people living under blankets with four sticks holding it up.

但我在真實的中國生活過，我會開著我的摩托車在城裡轉悠，我看到垃圾填埋場，那裡簡直就是一片汪洋，人們住在毯子裡，用四根棍子把毯子撐起來。

I live in the real China, so I got to see that side.

我生活在真實的中國，所以我看到了那一面。

That's where people have never seen a foreigner ever in person.

在那裡，人們從未親眼見過外國人。

So I remember one time I was at a cafe and I heard a lady like maybe a kilometre and a half down scream and go, whoa, white woman, how swag.

我記得有一次，我在一家咖啡館裡，聽到一位女士尖叫著說，哇，白種女人，真漂亮。

She was like, foreigner, how handsome.

她說，外國人，真帥。

And I looked through the window.

我透過窗戶看了看。

Oh my God.

我的天啊

The whole town was out there.

全鎮的人都在外面。

The whole town's there.

全鎮的人都在那裡。

You were a famous celebrity.

你是個名人

The whole town, it was crazy.

整個小鎮都瘋了。

Did you like that feeling or was it overwhelming?

你喜歡這種感覺嗎？

It was pretty overwhelming at first, especially since I was so new to Asia at the time.

起初，這讓我不知所措，尤其是當時我剛到亞洲不久。

Were you speaking the language at this point?

這時候你會說這種語言嗎？

Absolutely not.

絕對不行。

How long did you live in that environment?

你在那樣的環境中生活了多久？

Actually not long because I got a stomach parasite that almost killed me and I went to two hospitals.

其實沒多久，因為我得了胃寄生蟲病，差點要了我的命，我去了兩家醫院。

A dangerous parasite?

危險的寄生蟲？

A dangerous parasite, yeah.

危險的寄生蟲

What do you think caused it, from food or?

你認為是什麼原因造成的？

Yeah, where I lived, food there is grown with human feces was reported to me.

是的，在我居住的地方，有人向我報告那裡的食物是用人類糞便種植的。

Oh shit.

哦，該死

You mean they use it as fertilizer?

你是說他們把它當作肥料？

Yep, yeah.

是的，沒錯。

So I went to two hospitals there and that was a whole other story.

是以，我去了那裡的兩家醫院，那完全是另一回事。

Could you have died?

你會死嗎？

Are we talking serious?

你是認真的嗎？

Yeah, so I ended up getting really more sick.

是啊，所以我最後真的病得更重了。

They gave me yogurt pills.

他們給了我酸奶藥片。

Oh, yeah, probiotics.

哦，對了，益生菌。

Yep, yep.

是的，是的。

And I got on a plane and I came back to Taiwan.

我坐上飛機，回到了臺灣。

My fever was insane.

我發燒得很厲害。

I was fading.

我在褪色。

So I was living in Taiwan but living in China as well.

是以，我生活在臺灣，但也生活在中國。

So I was going back and forth.

所以我一直在來回奔波。

Oh, okay.

哦，好吧

To really go to a real hospital.

去真正的醫院

And the doctor said, Kyle, your bacteria count inside of your body, it's 5,000% what it should be.

醫生說，凱爾，你體內的細菌數量是正常值的5000%。

And if you didn't come back in eight hours, you'd be dead.

如果你八小時內不回來，你就死定了。

They saved your life.

他們救了你的命

They saved my life, yeah.

他們救了我的命

Okay, so when you recovered from that, did you go back to China?

好吧，當你從那件事中恢復過來後，你回中國了嗎？

No, I said, no, that's it.

不，我說，不，就是這樣。

I'm gonna settle in Taiwan.

我要去臺灣定居。

The food would have freaked me out at that point.

在那個時候，食物會把我嚇壞的。

I went to university, like I said earlier, for ancient history and Canadian history.

我上過大學，就像我之前說過的，學的是古代史和加拿大史。

And my professor at the time, he said, what do you wanna do with this?

我當時的教授說，你想用這個做什麼？

What's your purpose of studying?

你學習的目的是什麼？

I said, well, I wanna be Indiana Jones.

我說，我想成為奪寶奇兵。

I wanna be an archeologist.

我想成為一名考古學家

And he said, listen, Kyle, I hate to break your heart but you're just gonna end up as a professor in the university like me and there's no jobs for Indiana Jones anymore.

他說，聽著，凱爾，我不想傷你的心 但你最終會像我一樣成為大學教授 而奪寶奇兵已經沒有工作了

And I said, nope, I do not wanna be a teacher.

我說，不，我不想當老師。

Nope, that's the last thing I ever wanna do.

不，這是我最不想做的事。

And here I am in Taiwan now.

現在我在臺灣。

I've been a teacher for 13 years now.

我當老師已經 13 年了。

So you've been in Taiwan for 13 years.

你來臺灣已經 13 年了。

And I've never been back to Canada.

我從未回過加拿大。

Literally?

真的嗎？

Literally, never, yeah.

從字面上看，從來沒有，是的。

Oh, man.

天啊

Yeah, I've been here the whole time.

是啊，我一直都在這裡。

Yeah.

是啊

The last 13 years of your life, you have physically lived here.

在過去的 13 年裡，你一直生活在這裡。

Yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊。

So I was like 11 years in Taipei and then two years in Kaohsiung here.

我在臺北待了 11 年，然後在高雄待了兩年。

Do you have a favorite city of those two places if you were to be completely sincere?

在這兩個地方中，如果說真心話，你有最喜歡的城市嗎？

I love Kaohsiung the most because I think Taipei people are very cold.

我最喜歡高雄，因為我覺得臺北人很冷漠。

I told my friends in Kaohsiung that if you don't have money, you don't have friends.

我告訴我在高雄的朋友，如果你沒有錢，你就沒有朋友。

If you don't have friends in Kaohsiung, you don't have money.

如果你在高雄沒有朋友，你就沒有錢。

So in English, that would be like,

是以，用英語來表達就是

I spoke with my business owner friends who live here in Kaohsiung.

我和住在高雄的企業主朋友們聊了聊。

And we agree that in Taipei, if you have no money, you have no friends.

我們一致認為，在臺北，沒有錢就沒有朋友。

But in Kaohsiung, if you have no friends, you have no money.

但在高雄，沒有朋友就沒有錢。

Yeah, I agree.

是的，我同意。

Yeah.

是啊

Some of my best friends in the world are First Nations people here in this country.

我在世界上最好的一些朋友就是這個國家的原住民。

Shout out to the Saisiaju.

向賽夏娃們致敬

Where are they from, Taitung or Shenzhen?

他們來自哪裡，臺東還是深圳？