at Google and I'm also a fiction writer. And it's my privilege to introduce Jennifer Egan.

She is the author of "The Invisible Circus," which was released as a feature film by Fine

Line in 2001 and is now in my queue, by the way. "Emerald City and Other Stories," "Look

at Me," which was nominated for the National Book Award in 2001, and the bestselling "The

Keep."

Her new book, which we'll be discussing today, is "A Visit From the Goon Squad." It's a national

bestseller; won the 2007 National Book Critics Circle Award for fiction and the Pulitzer

Prize. Also a journalist, she writes frequently in the New York Times magazine. Thank you.

>>Jennifer Egan: Thank you.

>>Greg Sanders: For coming out. Do you wanna briefly describe "Goon Squad" if you haven't

had to do it a hundred times already?

>>Jennifer Egan: Actually, I've gotten slightly better at it because of that. It's actually

a very hard book to describe, which is one thing that I really worried about as I was

working on it. It always helps if something is just easily characterizable in a sentence

or two.

But this, in fact, consists of 13 chapters that are very different from each other in

mood and tone and feel. And in fact, each one has a different protagonist and yet, they

all combine into one story. And some of the issues braided through it are time and the

music industry.

Basically follows two main characters, a music producer named Bennie Salazar and his one-time

assistant named Sasha. And it goes backward and forward through their lives and actually

also visiting peripheral character's lives over a span of about 50 years.

I feel like the thing that I can say that seems to bring it most into focus for people

is that structurally, my model really was like the '70s concept album, something like

Tommy or Quadrophenia, where each piece sounds different and the fun of it having all of

these different sounding pieces collide together into one story. That's what I was going for.

>>Greg Sanders: I think it works really well. And there are stylistic differences also.

I mean, there's one chapter where there are no quotation marks, if I remember correctly.

There are these little tweaks. But one thing I notice is that you use--. There are two

very solid anchors.

You anchor each chapter either with music and/or technology and time. And I think, I'm

just wondering if you came upon this method organically or if you thought like--. I mean,

even the future sections, you're not quite sure where you are and then you're like, "OK,

this is definitely not now, but it sounds like a continuation of Twitter, of Facebook,

of whatnot."

And then the past sections, there's this, there's even--. One of the characters says,

"Just wait until the future. We'll be able to find all of our lost friends." I found

it really interesting. I'm just wondering if you consciously did that.

>>Jennifer Egan: its yes and no. My writing process is extremely organic. I write by hand

on yellow legal pads. I have handwriting that cannot be read often even by me, much less

anyone else, which results in my basically not knowing what I'm writing as I write it.

And I like that. As a journalist, I write on a computer and I'm looking at what I'm

writing and revising it as I go. But as a fiction writer, I'm looking for the unconscious

to do what I'm not able to do,

>>Greg Sanders: Right.

>>Jennifer Egan: not smart enough to do.

>>Jennifer Egan: So, I basically, I follow the story and wait for it to unfold in this

handwritten way. And then when I have a draft, I type it up and then I'm very systematic

and analytical in trying to figure out what needs to be done with it, what it seems like

it could be and how to make it be more of that.

And so in that phase, yes. I do a lot of thinking about thematic threads and how they're moving

through and locating people in time and space. But the basic impulse is really a gut impulse.

>>Greg Sanders: So, that's the second editorial layer is putting the rivets in a sense.

>>Jennifer Egan: It's a counterpoint because then, when I execute those changes, I'm again

doing it by hand on hard copies. So, I write in my changes, which often involves lots of

strange arabesques and symbols and arrows leading on to other pages.

And then I have type all that in. So at that point, I've again veered very much back into

impulse and instinct. But then ultimately, when I have another big draft, I read it through

and make another very systematic outline. So it seems like a very left brain/right brain--.

>>Greg Sanders: That might be good, that battle. That battle between the two is probably what

brings it [inaudible].

>>Jennifer Egan: I don't see it as a battle. Sometimes, it is a battle.

>>Greg Sanders: Conversational. Conversational.

>>Jennifer Egan: Like, why can't you get that done? But yes. It is more of--. It feels like

two sides of a process that both must be done well for it to work.

>>Greg Sanders: Right. And the handwritten early drafts, does that slow down process

help you creatively?

>>Jennifer Egan: Well, it definitely slows me down. I keep thinking, "Isn't there a way

to speed this up?" I think it does help me. I think it helps me in a number of ways. One

is, as I said, I'm trying to access the unconscious and I can't seem to do that when I'm looking

at what I write in a typeface.

>>Greg Sanders: Right.

>>Jennifer Egan: Now, people have pointed out that I could always cover the screen of

the computer and write by hand, but I actually can't--. I have to admit I haven't tried that.

But I don't really think it would work. I think there is something about the actual

physical connection to the language that helps me and leads to surprises that I can't consciously

think of and I'm trying to enable that process. I also have wrestled with the fact that I

feel like it takes me too long to write books.

And I've often thought, "But if I could do it on a computer it would be faster>" But

I've actually started to feel that I think I want time to pass as I'm writing a book.

>>Greg Sanders: Yeah. I think it's a good thing, actually. I mean, for example, I use

a manual typewriter. I type a lot of these up and I find that there's a more forceful

relationship with the language on the page when you're physically doing it as opposed

to--.

I mean, you can type really quickly, obviously, on a computer, but I wonder rhetorically how

does it change my relationship with the content that I'm writing?

>>Jennifer Egan: It's interesting, though. Gabriel Garcia Marquez got on a word processer

and never looked back.

>>Greg Sanders: Right.

>>Jennifer Egan: So, it's interesting how it works differently for each writer. And

so much of the challenge for me, and I think really for everyone, is just finding out what

works for you. And you do that by trial and error.

I do occasionally edit on a screen if I'm really stuck and I feel like I don't know

what I'm trying to do and I wanna move it forward a step. And I don't want to sit there

not knowing what to do and doing it slowly.

>>Greg Sanders: Right.

>>Jennifer Egan: I figure if I don't know what I'm doing and I'm just gonna flail, let's

do it faster. That's the only time. But generally, I find as I'm typing in changes, I'm thinking

of this right now 'cause I'm doing it today. I have a manuscript. I've made a bunch of

edits. I'm bringing it to my writing group tonight and so, I have to type in all these

edits.

And as I'm doing it, I find myself thinking, "Wait a minute. Wouldn't it be better this

way?" I'm wanting to edit on the screen. But I really try to resist that temptation because

generally, those changes are wrong. And once I see it on the page again, I have to change

them back.

And I think, "Why did I do that?" But as we move into a world of reading more on screens,

it leads to the question of how much it matters how it looks on the page. So I don't know.

>>Greg Sanders: Well, I was actually gonna ask that. That was one of my questions is,

how do you think is, we've become so enmeshed in our relationship with our devices and technology

and paperless books. How do you think that affects, that's going to affect narrative

forms like the novel?

And should it affect the way a writer thinks about his or her readers?

>>Jennifer Egan: The answer is I truly don't know. I mean, it's clearly affected me to

some degree. I mean, I've written a chapter in a form that's really meant to be viewed

digitally. So obviously, I've been impacted by the notion of digital reading.

>>Greg Sanders: Right. We'll get to that.

>>Jennifer Egan: But I've never used an e-reader. And in fact, I only have had a smartphone

for two days. So I'm pretty behind.

>>Greg Sanders: We won't ask what kind.

>>Jennifer Egan: Don't ask how well I'm texting on it. That's what's really sad, speaking

of taking a long time. So, I don't know. I mean, I have a complicated relationship to

technology as I think we all do. I'm afraid of it. I mean, in a simple way, like, "Oh

my God. Maybe I won't know how to use it."

Afraid of the implications of it in a bigger way. I think there's always the fear that

it will somehow make the world worse. And if you look at early reactions to the telephone,

it was exactly the same. And you guys probably know more about all this than I do. But I

think we still feel it.

It's the sense of hurdling forward. Where will that lead us? Things change so fast.

I had this sense, I taught at NYU the spring before this last spring and I taught undergrads.

And one reason I wanted to do it was I thought I wanna know what "young people" are doing

and thinking about right now. Often, my journalism keeps me up to date with that, but I felt

a little confused about it in terms of technology.

But the thing that was so funny was these 20- and 21-year olds felt old because they

felt like, oh, teenagers now have really grown up with Facebook, but we didn't. So, we're

the dinosaurs. And I thought, "Wow. I wonder if technology is moving so fast that everyone

feels old."

>>Greg Sanders: You can't keep up.

>>Jennifer Egan: I find myself commiserating with 21-year olds about how 14-year olds were

way ahead of all of us. And I thought maybe the 14-year olds are looking at the two-year

olds thinking, "Well, they know how to use iPhones. They've grown up with them and I

didn't have that experience." So, who knows?

>>Greg Sanders: Yeah. I mean, speaking about two-year olds and technology, there's the

latter part of your novel projects us forward, I don't know, ten, fifteen years later. I'm

not sure.

>>Jennifer Egan: Yeah, something like that.

>>Greg Sanders: And there is a foreboding relationship with technology. I mean, there's

two threads, or two elements. One is there's this kind of, people act as ads. I mean, they're

paid to do the equivalent of tweet and update their posts or whatnot to create excitement

an event that's going to happen.

>>Jennifer Egan: Right.

>>Greg Sanders: And I found that really, really interesting. So, you're saying you have a

troubled relationship, but you also seem to use that.

>>Jennifer Egan: But I'm fascinated.

>>Greg Sanders: Yeah. And then there's also a section where there's this young couple

that we meet earlier, much earlier in the novel. And then we see them in the future

and they have a two-year old daughter. Maybe she's a little younger. And there's this sort

of--. Everyone's got this--.

There's this ubiquitous communications texting device that everyone has and they're like,

they don't want her to touch it.

>>Jennifer Egan: Right. There's also been one invented for kids.

>>Greg Sanders: Right, exactly.

>>Jennifer Egan: Called a Starfish. But when I imagined that, it was pre-iPhone. And in

a way, I feel like that fantasy's already obsolete because the iPhone is kind of what

I imagined.

>>Greg Sanders: Right.

>>Jennifer Egan: Something bright and candy-like that would be really easy. It would have a

touch screen and would be really fun and easy for kids to use and buy stuff on. I mean,

I am a two-day smartphone user and my children have already bought apps on it.

I mean, they're not two, but--. In a way I feel like that's already been superseded.

So, yeah, I think in that chapter one feels some anxiety about technology. At the same

time, creatively it is so exciting to me.

>>Greg Sanders: Yeah.

>>Jennifer Egan: I mean it's just thrilling to think about new forms and genres that become

possible through technology. And to me, the novel, while many people feel that it's imperiled

by all of this, I don't actually feel that way because to me the novel has always been

a very flexible, elastic, open form. If you look at the earliest fiction, Cervantes and

Laurence Sterne, that stuff is out there. It's meta--

>>Greg Sanders: I'm reading Don Quixote now. Unbelievable.

>>Jennifer Egan: Tristram Shandy has crazy graphics in there. I mean, if PowerPoint existed

he would've been using it. So, I feel like they're all kinds of things that are possible.

And that is really exciting to me, even as I, myself, am clearly not an early adapter.

>>Greg Sanders: Well, I think in some ways you are. I mean, you're pushing the envelope.

I mean, especially--. Can we talk about one of the chapters that I really love?

>>Jennifer Egan: Sure.

>>Greg Sanders: For those of you that have the book. Well, it starts on 230-something.

But it's basically, I guess, also a projection of the future and if this--. It's an entire

chapter. The entire narrative is done, you said with PowerPoint?

>>Jennifer Egan: Yeah, I did it with PowerPoint.

>>Greg Sanders: And--.