Talk to us about the moments of flying a military helicopter, those moments when there's three of you, if not more, sometimes less I guess, in that cockpit, it's dark, night flying, night goggles on.

跟我們談談駕駛軍用直升機的那些時刻吧，駕駛艙裡有三個人，如果不是更多的話，有時我猜會更少，漆黑一片，夜間飛行，戴著夜視鏡。

What's that like in that moment?

那一刻是什麼感覺？

I think the important thing to understand is that the context is everything, and although that crew would have been equipped and trained to operate on night vision goggles, there's every chance the circumstances they were in, they weren't actually using them, and the reason is that night vision goggles are there to amplify light, they stimulate light, they capture photons and amplify them massively.

我認為最重要的是要明白，環境決定一切，雖然機組人員已經配備了夜視鏡，並接受了夜視鏡操作的培訓，但他們當時所處的環境很有可能並沒有真正使用夜視鏡，原因是夜視鏡的作用是放大光線，刺激光線，捕捉光子並將其大量放大。

If you fly around an airfield such as Washington National, you'll see there's thousands of very, very bright lights there.

如果你繞著華盛頓國家機場飛行，你會發現那裡有成千上萬盞非常非常明亮的燈。

Those lights have an impact on what we call backing down your night vision goggles, so the goggles are almost useless because the the goggles will auto-gate to protect the very sensitive electronics that are inside them, so the chances are at the operating altitudes they were flying at that night, 200 feet, as mandated by the the traffic routes around National, they were what we would call flip-flopping, so they're probably goggles up most of the time, looking down, goggles up, because the goggles themselves would be being a distraction due to the amount of lighting around an airport.

這些燈光會影響到夜視鏡 所以夜視鏡幾乎沒用 因為夜視鏡會自動關閉 以保護裡面非常敏感的電子設備200英尺 根據國家機場周圍的交通路線規定 他們是我們所說的翻轉飛行 所以他們可能大部分時間都戴著護目鏡 朝下看，戴著護目鏡

You're in a cockpit, you're being told to observe an incoming passenger plane, how much of that can you see?

你在駕駛艙裡，有人讓你觀察一架飛來的客機，你能看到多少？

What can you see as a pilot looking out into the distance, into the darkness?

作為一名飛行員，你能看到遠處的黑暗嗎？

So I've actually been fortunate to fly the Blackhawk as well, so I've had a few hours flying the Blackhawk and the visibility out of that aircraft is excellent, most battlefield helicopters, most military helicopters have excellent visibility out, because you're off, unlike a lot of fixed-wing aircraft in the helicopter world, you're often flying very close to the ground within the obstruction layer, so between trees, between underneath electricity pylons, in extremists, in bad weather, so the lookout is excellent.

實際上，我也有幸駕駛過 "黑鷹"，所以我有幾個小時駕駛 "黑鷹 "的經歷。"黑鷹 "的能見度非常好，大多數戰場直升機、大多數軍用直升機的能見度都非常好，因為你是在空中飛行，與直升機領域的許多固定翼飛機不同，你經常是在障礙物層內非常靠近地面的地方飛行，所以在樹木之間、電線杆下、極端天氣、惡劣天氣下都是如此，所以瞭望效果非常好。

The key for me is what were the crew actually looking at, and I think that's where we haven't, as far as we're aware, we still haven't got the cockpit voice recorder from the Blackhawk, we've recovered them from the the CRJ.

對我來說，關鍵是機組人員到底在看什麼，我想這也是我們還沒有找到的地方，據我們所知，我們還沒有從黑鷹上拿到駕駛艙語音記錄器，我們已經從CRJ上找到了。

To me that's the missing piece in the jigsaw, it's that although we've got the radio calls from the crews, we understand what they were saying to our traffic and what was being said back, what we haven't got is that crew environment, that as you mentioned right at the top, those three people in that aircraft are operating as a crew, you know, in the Chinook we had four, sometimes even more, so you're operating as a crew, you know, it's a synergistic effect, you're hoping that your crew skills are better than your component parts, but until we know that, until we have that cockpit voice recorder, hopefully it will tell us what they were talking about, what their priorities were, what their workload level was in the moments leading up to the accident, and I think tellingly in this incident, what they were actually looking at and what they recognised as the situational awareness, the air picture around them in those final few seconds.

在我看來，這是拼圖中缺少的一塊，雖然我們已經得到了機組人員的無線電通話，我們瞭解他們對我們的交通說了什麼，以及回話說了什麼，但我們沒有得到的是機組人員的環境，正如你在最前面提到的，飛機上的三個人是作為一個機組人員操作的，你知道，在支努干，我們有四個人，有時甚至更多，所以你是作為一個機組人員操作的，你知道，這是一個協同效應、但在我們知道這一點之前，在我們拿到駕駛艙語音記錄儀之前，希望它能告訴我們他們在談論什麼，他們的優先事項是什麼，他們在事故發生前的那一刻的工作量是多少，我認為在這起事件中，他們實際上在看什

There's lots of footage going around online and lots of commentary, people hypothesising as to what that environment's like.

網上流傳著很多視頻，還有很多評論，人們假設那裡的環境是什麼樣的。

At the speeds you're operating at, first of all, what kind of speeds were they operating at, and how quickly does that environment change?

在你們的操作速度下，首先，他們的操作速度是什麼樣的，環境變化的速度有多快？

We're all used to driving a car on the road, but you're on the road, you've got solid ground beneath you, you've only got kind of 180 degrees to think about.

我們都習慣於在公路上駕駛汽車，但你在公路上，腳下是堅實的土地，你只需要考慮 180 度的問題。

When you're flying, how much does your environment change in split seconds?

當你飛行時，你所處的環境會在瞬間發生多大變化？

It can change really, really quickly, and those sort of speeds that you'd be typically flying on a route like that would be around about 120 knots, 80 to 120 knots, depending on the stage of flight.

在這樣的航線上，飛行速度通常在 120 節左右，80 到 120 節之間，具體取決於飛行階段。

So that's about 140 miles an hour?

那麼時速大約是 140 英里？

140 miles an hour, which sounds fast, and you know, if you were driving down the M4 this morning doing that, it would be fast, but in the context of aviation, 120 knots is relatively slow, and slower than a CRJ would have been on final approach to the runway.

時速 140 英里，聽起來很快，你知道，如果你今天早上在 M4 公路上駕車行駛，速度也會很快，但在航空領域，120 海里的速度相對較慢，比一架 CRJ 飛機在最後接近跑道時的速度還要慢。

But the important thing also, and it's a sad trick of geometry, which is if you are actually on a collision course with another aircraft in the air, there will be no relative motion.

但重要的是，這也是幾何學的一個可悲的技巧，即如果你真的在空中與另一架飛機相撞，就不會有相對運動。

So quite often when you think about your peripheral vision, when you're driving, your main vision is looking straight ahead down the motorway, but you are aware of stuff, particularly if a car comes into your blind spot, if you've got a mirror that gives you a little indication to say, you know it's in your direction.

是以，當你考慮到你的周邊視力時，當你開車時，你的主要視力是直視前方的高速公路，但你會注意到一些東西，特別是當一輛車進入你的盲點時，如果你有一個後視鏡，它會給你一點提示，告訴你，你知道它在你的方向。

If you're on a collision course with another aircraft, that constant bearing is constant.

如果你正與另一架飛機相撞，這個恆定的方位就是恆定的。

It means there is no relative motion, and then having conducted a number of mid-air collision avoidance trials in the past, you get that sudden bloom, and really the last couple of seconds before the potential impact is when everything suddenly gets bigger on you, and then it's no longer your perception or your sort of peripheral vision, it's now bang, it's there.

這意味著沒有相對運動，過去曾進行過多次避免空中碰撞的試驗，你會突然發現，在潛在撞擊發生前的最後幾秒鐘，你眼前的一切都突然變大了，這時候你的感知或外圍視野已經不再清晰，而是 "砰 "的一聲，它就在那裡。

There's kind of a depth perception shift.

這是一種深度知覺的轉變。

And at night, that's really difficult.

而在晚上，這真的很困難。

We are creatures that are designed to operate in daylight.

我們是專為在日光下活動而設計的生物。

Our vision works best in daylight.

我們的視覺在日光下效果最佳。

At night, night vision goggles are notoriously difficult at making depth perceptions, because it's a 2D presentation of a 3D world.

在夜間，夜視鏡很難產生深度感知，因為它是三維世界的二維呈現。

Whereas if you are looking at night, a light, it's very difficult if you look at a light and say, how far away is that light?

而如果是在夜晚，你看著一盞燈說："那盞燈離我們有多遠？"這就非常困難了。

Because you don't know the intensity of the light, you don't know the bearing of the light.

因為你不知道光的強度，也不知道光的方位。

It's very difficult until suddenly it blooms at you as you're in those last couple of seconds before collision.

這是非常困難的，直到在碰撞前的最後幾秒鐘，它突然向你綻放。

So depth perception at night is very difficult.

是以，夜間的深度知覺非常困難。

Your night vision is also impacted by the amount of light.

光線的強弱也會影響您的夜視能力。

So if they're looking into Washington National, their night vision, their natural night vision, you think you sit down there in a dark room, your night vision improves.

是以，如果他們看著華盛頓國家公園，他們的夜視能力，他們的自然夜視能力，你想你坐在黑暗的房間裡，你的夜視能力就會提高。

Well, they're looking into a pool of light.

嗯，他們正看著一束光。

So you're looking from the pool of light into the blackness, their eyes won't have time to adjust to looking back into the blackness.

是以，你從光池看向黑夜，他們的眼睛就來不及適應回頭看向黑夜。

So it's very, very difficult to judge perception and distance at night.

是以，在夜間判斷感知和距離是非常非常困難的。

Well, really appreciate it.

非常感謝。

Really fascinating insights as well for the moment.

目前的見解也非常吸引人。

Thank you so much.

非常感謝。