The thing is, my view, Palantir's view, my book's view, is not an historical diagnostic of the past.

問題是，我的觀點、Palantir 的觀點、我的書的觀點，都不是對過去的歷史診斷。

It's only a diagnostic of the past to get people to do things in the present and the future.

這只是對過去的診斷，目的是讓人們在現在和未來做事。

And the more people in tech, the more builders.

技術人員越多，建築商就越多。

Like what makes America unique is that we have a culture of builders expressed in technology.

就像美國的獨特之處在於，我們有一種以技術為表現形式的建設者文化。

And the more builders that are helping the U.S. government be stronger and better and superior to all other governments in the world, the better for everyone.

越多的建築商幫助美國政府變得更強大、更優秀，並優於世界上所有其他國家的政府，對每個人都越有利。

And so I very much support all builders, everyone who's done something important, pitching in to make America stronger, better, and the West superior, and America have a dominant position in the world.

是以，我非常支持所有的建設者，每一個做了重要事情的人，都參與進來，讓美國變得更強、更好，讓西方變得更優越，讓美國在世界上佔據主導地位。

So I think these things are really, really good and obviously welcome them.

是以，我認為這些東西真的非常好，而且顯然很受歡迎。

And whether one was there yesterday, maybe we were alone for 15 years, and that's okay.

無論昨天是否有人在那裡，也許我們孤獨了 15 年，這都沒關係。

We're not alone now.

我們現在並不孤單。

Yeah, they're all there now.

是的，他們現在都在那裡。

And there's been a shift in the posture of foreign policy under President Trump when it comes to talking tough.

在特朗普總統的上司下，外交政策的姿態發生了轉變，開始變得強硬起來。

The things that you talk about, what makes America strong in destroying our enemies.

你所說的這些，是美國摧毀敵人的強大力量。

Have you been supportive?

你支持他們嗎？

Yeah, I'm super supportive of my version of he's acting tough, and that's why, you know, look at the hostages.

是啊，我超級支持我的版本 他的行為強硬，這就是為什麼， 你知道，看看人質。

All of a sudden we have all these hostages.

突然間，我們有了這麼多人質。

They're afraid.

他們害怕

Some of them are Americans.

其中有些是美國人。

And look, our adversaries need to know that they, as I've been saying for 15, 20 years, it's like if they're not afraid of us, there's literally no way they're going to act rationally.

聽著，我們的對手需要知道，正如我15年、20年來一直說的那樣，如果他們不怕我們，他們就不可能理性行事。

In fact, they are acting rationally.

事實上，他們的行為是理性的。

If they're not afraid of us, why shouldn't they just represent their own interests?

如果他們不怕我們，為什麼不能只代表他們自己的利益？

It's what they do.

這就是他們的工作。

But there are really two ways America can be strong vis-a-vis our adversaries.

但是，面對我們的對手，美國確實有兩種方式可以變得強大。

One is put the fear of like death into our adversaries at any random moment, which I think, you know, is happening for the first time in a long time.

其一是讓我們的對手在任何時刻都感到死亡的恐懼，我認為，你知道，這在很長一段時間裡是第一次發生。

And two, get the economy to be super strong.

第二，讓經濟超級強勁。

And if you look, like I spent half my life in Europe, look at the difference between what's going on in Europe and what's going on here.

如果你看看，就像我在歐洲度過了我的半生一樣，看看歐洲發生的事情和這裡發生的事情之間的區別。

Europe is like culturally similar, should have similar ability to produce technology, to produce builders, to produce innovation.

歐洲在文化上相似，應該有類似的能力來生產技術、生產建設者、生產創新。

And like the delta between what's happening in America and similarly situated societies is just enormous and compounding.

就像在美國發生的事情與情況類似的社會之間的差距是巨大的，而且還在不斷擴大。

And obviously, you know, I would like our allies to do better.

顯然，我希望我們的盟友做得更好。

But for now, we just have to focus on America and, you know, the gap between America and China.

但現在，我們只需關注美國，以及中美之間的差距。

You said that the U.S. has a dominant tech scene, one, two, and three.

你說過，美國在科技領域佔據主導地位，一、二、三。

We think that.

我們認為

We thought that.

我們認為

And then we get a development like deep...

然後，我們得到了一個像深......

Well, you know, it's like, first of all, all the facts aren't available.

嗯，你知道，這就像，首先，所有的事實都不存在。

But what I think you're gonna find is it's very, it's much easier than people want to believe to be the second mover because you can train on our models and do things we've already done.

但我認為你會發現，要想成為第二推動者，比人們想象的要容易得多，因為你可以根據我們的模式進行培訓，做我們已經做過的事情。

And that's a danger for America.

這對美國來說是個危險。

Like we're the first mover, we're the first builder.

就像我們是第一推動者，我們是第一建設者。

We build these things.

我們建造這些東西。

Only we could have built like a large language model culture.

只有我們才能建立起像大型語言模型一樣的文化。

Only we have built a software culture at scale.

只有我們建立了大規模的軟件文化。

Only we have built a lot of the technologies in the world that are disseminated.

只有我們掌握了世界上大量的傳播技術。

Some are good, some are not.

有些好，有些不好。

That's another thing in the book.

這是書中的另一件事。

Like technology is not inherently good.

就像技術本身並不是好東西一樣。

It's good in maybe our hands.

也許在我們手中是件好事。

Same technology is not good in the hands of our adversaries.

同樣的技術落到我們對手的手裡也不是什麼好事。

We have to acknowledge that.

我們必須承認這一點。

But that just means we have to run harder, run faster, have an all-country effort.

但這隻意味著我們必須跑得更努力，跑得更快，全力以赴。

I think you're going to see that.

我想你會看到的。

And certainly, the tech community has woken up to the fact that second mover can move very, very quickly, especially, you know, if we've already done the innovation.

當然，科技界已經意識到，"第二推動者 "可以非常、非常迅速地前進，尤其是在我們已經完成創新的情況下。

And the innovation and the copying of innovation is something different.

而創新和對創新的複製是不同的。

One of the things that we've seen at Palantir, just as a much less important example, is, you know, everybody made fun of us.

我們在 Palantir 看到的一件事，只是一個不太重要的例子，就是大家都取笑我們。

Everyone derided our kind of anti-woe, pro-meritocracy, build software that's actually valuable for an enterprise.

每個人都嘲笑我們這種反窩裡鬥、擁護精英主義的人，說我們是在製造對企業真正有價值的軟件。

Take, go to it, do it, do it, DPO instead of IPO so that individual investors can make money.

採取，去做，做，做，DPO 而不是 IPO，這樣個人投資者就能賺錢。

Full alignment.

完全對齊。

Now a lot of people want to copy us.

現在，很多人都想模仿我們。

But copying is not actually as easy as it looks.

但實際上，複製並不像看起來那麼容易。

If you stick to your internal dynamics of how to build, what you're building, a culture of execution, it is harder to copy than people think.

如果你堅持自己的內部動力，即如何建立、正在建立什麼、一種執行文化，那麼它比人們想象的更難複製。

It's still possible.

還是有可能的。

It's easier than you'd like it.

這比你想的要容易得多。

And that's basically the situation that I see that we're in America.

這就是我在美國看到的基本情況。

We have the lead.

我們領先

We have to focus on making sure we keep it.

我們必須集中精力，確保保住它。

And our adversaries are going to copy anything they can and try and innovate on top of it.

而我們的對手會複製他們能複製的一切，並在此基礎上嘗試創新。

I was going to say, what are we up against when it comes to China and AI technology?

我想說的是，在中國和人工智能技術方面，我們的對手是什麼？

Well, exactly what you saw.

嗯，和你看到的一模一樣。

It's like, basically, a derivative of what we did with improvements at the margin, both in terms of cost and certain innovations.

基本上，這就像是我們在成本和某些創新方面所做的改進的衍生品。

But that just means we have to innovate harder.

但這隻意味著我們必須更加努力地創新。

And, of course, I think there's going to be a huge policy discussion on how do we make sure some of our innovations are not actually exported, if only indirectly.

當然，我認為還將有一場關於如何確保我們的一些創新成果不被出口（哪怕只是間接出口）的大型政策討論。

And so that, I think, what you're going to see in the next couple years is an acceleration of, like, how do we protect the innovations that we have done?

是以，我認為，在接下來的幾年裡，你會看到一個加速度，比如，我們如何保護我們已經完成的創新？

Because only, they are innovations that are an outgrowth of our culture, our people, the way we invest, the way we organize, the fact that we believe in the rule of law and meritocracy and have higher beliefs.

因為只有這些創新才是我們的文化、我們的人民、我們的投資方式、我們的組織方式、我們相信法治和任人唯賢的事實以及更高的信仰的產物。

These are all very unique aspects of America that really, currently, only America has at scale.

這些都是美國非常獨特的方面，目前確實只有美國擁有這樣的規模。

Then how do we protect that so that these things are not stolen, manipulated, used against us?

那麼，我們該如何保護這些東西，以免它們被盜、被操縱、被用來對付我們呢？

I think you're going to see a lot of discussions around that.

我想你會看到很多圍繞這個問題的討論。

I'm pretty optimistic around that.

我對此非常樂觀。

Then there are the national security concerns.

然後是國家安全問題。

There's also the big shock on the cost.

此外，成本也令人大跌眼鏡。

Does that make sense to you, how they were able to do this for, what, $5 million?

你覺得這合理嗎？ 他們怎麼能用 500 萬美元做到這一點？

Yeah, I don't really believe those numbers.

是的，我不太相信這些數字。

But, in any case, even if, the point I'm making is, the second mover has certain advantages, but the real advantage is for the first mover, as long as the first mover is running hard.

但是，無論如何，即使如此，我想說的是，第二推動者有一定的優勢，但真正的優勢在於第一推動者，只要第一推動者努力運轉。

So you have to take some of these, the ideas of how it's built, with a great deal of skepticism.

是以，你必須對其中一些關於如何建造的想法持懷疑態度。

But the point I'm making is, look internally to how you do these things.

但我想說的是，要從內部審視自己是如何做這些事情的。

The first job, like, purely from an innovation perspective, like at Palantir, we are not, we really don't focus on quote-unquote competition.

第一份工作，純粹從創新的角度來看，就像在 Palantir，我們並不關注競爭。

We focus on how do we execute, how do we make it better, how do we make the products we, how do we create the most value ever seen in this area that we're in coding.

我們的重點是如何執行，如何做得更好，如何製作產品，如何在我們所從事的編碼領域創造前所未有的價值。

Can you do it cheaper now?

現在能便宜點嗎？

Well, we can do what we should do cheaper and faster because of AI and because we know what we're doing, and because we have essentially unlimited capital.

因為有了人工智能，因為我們知道自己在做什麼，因為我們擁有基本無限的資本，所以我們能以更低的成本、更快的速度完成我們應該做的事情。

But, and we, and actually one of our big advantages at Palantir, that the tech scene has now, is because now when we hire engineers, they actually believe what we know what we're talking about.

但是，我們在 Palantir 的一大優勢，也是現在科技領域的一大優勢，就是因為現在當我們僱傭工程師時，他們真的相信我們知道自己在說什麼。

Like, honestly, for like 15 and 16, 17 years, every time I told an engineer this is how you build a product, they're like, why should I listen to you?

老實說，在過去的 15、16、17 年裡，每次我跟工程師說這就是你製造產品的方法時，他們都會說，我為什麼要聽你的？

Now, occasionally they listen.

現在，他們偶爾會聽。

But, but again, we, the, from a tech building perspective, the most important thing is, what am I doing to make my product better, my offering better?

但是，從技術建設的角度來看，最重要的是，我在做什麼才能讓我的產品更好，讓我的服務更好？

Better is defined by more value, cheaper, and arguably faster, where it's really the most value, the fastest way possible, are the two parameters around, like, the way Palantir's organized internally with complete honesty, like, it's, and, and with a total disregard for how you're supposed to do it.

更好的定義是更有價值、更便宜，也可以說是更快，真正最有價值、最快的方式是圍繞這兩個參數的，比如 Palantir 內部組織的方式，完全誠實，比如，它是，而且，完全不考慮你應該怎麼做。

Like, there's, there's a certain way you're supposed to build software, there's a certain way you're supposed to build a company, there's a certain way you're supposed to build all sorts of things.

就像，有一種特定的方式可以構建軟件，有一種特定的方式可以構建公司，有一種特定的方式可以構建各種各樣的東西。

It's all, it's, it all doesn't matter.

這一切，這一切，都不重要了。

You have to build it so that you get the maximum value proposition at years or decades before anyone else could do it, at a speed and cost that the customer could never do for themselves.

你必須比別人早幾年或幾十年完成這項工作，以客戶自己無法完成的速度和成本，獲得最大的價值主張。

Do you see the other, do you see open AIs and Microsoft doing that?

你認為其他開放式人工智能和微軟會這樣做嗎？

Look, as I mentioned, I'm very focused on what Palantir does, and Palantir, Palantir's view, by the way, it was also derided, was the, the models were commodities, the management, I've been saying it for years, everyone thought it was insane, stupid, counterproductive, or we were only saying it because we weren't involved in building LLM.

聽著，正如我提到的，我非常專注於 Palantir 的工作，而 Palantir，順便說一句，Palantir 的觀點也遭到了嘲笑，那就是，模型是商品，管理是商品，我已經說了很多年了，每個人都認為它是瘋狂的、愚蠢的、適得其反的，或者說我們這麼說只是因為我們沒有參與建立 LLM。

But now, of course, most people believe that, and at least for the next couple years, I strongly believe that's the case.

當然，現在大多數人都相信這一點，至少在未來幾年，我堅信情況會是這樣。

You see it on the battlefield, you see it in commercial, and you see it in, quite frankly, the way in which our partners or customers react to our offering, and they react, by the way, they react very strongly, positively to what we're doing, because it, it actually is disruptive in a positive way.

你可以在戰場上看到這一點，你可以在商業領域看到這一點，坦率地說，你可以從我們的合作伙伴或客戶對我們的產品的反應中看到這一點。

They also react very strongly and positively to it, because in, in fact, the way we're doing it embodies a cultural way of organizing around tech that all these companies actually want to embrace.

他們對此的反應也非常強烈和積極，因為事實上，我們的做法體現了一種圍繞技術進行組織的文化方式，而所有這些公司實際上都希望接受這種方式。

Meaning, flatten the hierarchy, get to the value proposition.

也就是說，扁平化層次結構，直指價值主張。

One of the biggest trains, trends in AI that's not quite understood is that the AI large language model, Palantir ontology revolution, if a revolution is defined by who gets paid, like, then clearly we're doing something right.

人工智能領域最大的列車和趨勢之一，就是人工智能大型語言模型、Palantir 本體論革命，如果革命是由誰獲得報酬來定義的，那麼顯然我們做對了。

So that, what people are actually trying to do is reduce the organization back to what it was intended to do.

是以，人們實際上想做的是把組織縮回到它本來要做的事情上。

A software company is intended to make your company better at what it does, not parasitically transfer the revenue back to the soft, the, basically, the provider of the parasite under better, favorable financial terms.

軟件公司的目的是讓你的公司做得更好，而不是以更好、更有利的財務條款將收入轉回給軟體，也就是寄生蟲的提供者。

A, a, a, a institution has a core mission.

一個、一個、一個、一個機構有一個核心使命。

What is that core mission?

核心任務是什麼？

Does it execute it?

它能執行嗎？

Does it execute against in the cheapest, most efficient, and safest way?

它是否以最便宜、最高效、最安全的方式執行任務？

There may be many ways to do that, but one way that I think people can increasingly see that works is by Palantir.

也許有很多方法可以做到這一點，但我認為人們可以越來越多地看到，Palantir 是一種可行的方法。

And so, especially...

是以，特別是

How big can it get?

它能有多大？

How big can you get?

你能變得多大？

I mean, I don't, I think we can help transform the, the, the way in which companies are run in the U.S., and I think the U.S.

我的意思是，我不認為，我認為我們可以幫助改變美國公司的經營方式，我認為美

GDP is going to be very, very, you're going to see significant growth.

國內生產總值將會有非常非常可觀的增長。

The, the, the fundamental limit to Palantir's growth at this point is, can anyone besides America adopt at the rate America's adopting?

目前，Palantir 發展的根本限制在於，除了美國，還有誰能以美國的速度發展嗎？

The fundamental limit for Palantir is, can we keep up with the adoption that you're seeing, especially in U.S., in U.S. commercial, which is just like, you know, we do not have enough people, we do not have, you know, we have a nascent sales force, we're doing our best, we have all these companies that are training on installing Palantir, they're getting up and running, you know, we're doing our best.

Palantir的基本限制是，我們能否跟上你所看到的採用率，尤其是在美國，在美國商業領域，這就像，你知道，我們沒有足夠的人員，我們沒有，你知道，我們有一支新生的銷售隊伍，我們正在盡最大努力，我們有所有這些公司正在接受安裝Palantir的培訓，他們正在啟動和運行，你知道，我們正在盡最大努力。

What can we do?

我們能做些什麼？

What about the new administration?

新政府怎麼辦？

I mean, you also have a lot of government contracts, and this is an administration that has been much more focused on AI, installing key people in jobs to focus on it.

我的意思是，你也有很多政府合同，這是一個更加關注人工智能的政府，在工作中安排了關鍵人物來關注它。

Well, I mean, like, the people who, like David Sachs, obviously, clearly very strong and, and, and know what they're Does it help your business?

我的意思是，像大衛-薩克斯（David Sachs）這樣的人，顯然非常強勢，而且知道自己在做什麼，這對你的業務有幫助嗎？

Well, you know, look, our nation is more important to us than anything, and, you know, first we have to look at, you know, we are in the business of making America stronger and better.

嗯，你知道，聽著，我們的國家對我們來說比什麼都重要，而且，你知道，首先我們必須看看，你知道，我們的業務是讓美國變得更強大、更美好。

That's our first and primary objective, so, and we will, we're going to work on that, and, you know, I'm optimistic.

這是我們的首要目標，是以，我們將努力實現這一目標，我對此持樂觀態度。

Look, where you get, the more meritocracy you get in any way, the better Palantir does.

聽著，在任何情況下，任人唯賢的程度越高，Palantir 的業績就越好。

Bring meritocracy to your institution, you're likely going to be Palantir's institution.

將任人唯賢帶入你的機構，你就有可能成為 Palantir 的機構。

So we love the spread of meritocracy and transparency and installing software.

是以，我們熱愛任人唯賢、透明和安裝軟件的傳播。

Software is the most efficient way to change your unit economics.

軟件是改變組織、部門經濟效益的最有效方法。

There's been, there's nothing like installing software that actually transformative for changing the unit economics of business, both on the top end and on the cost structure, and you can do it very, very quickly, and, you know, I assume that, you know, the US government will be as interested as US commercial is in having those kind of transformations, and I fully support it, and by the way, you should especially support it if you care about, you know, what happens to the smaller person, the person who's born into conditions that are not favorable, because that's where these things drop off.

沒有什麼比安裝軟件更能改變企業的組織、部門經濟效益了，無論是在高端還是在成本結構上，你都可以非常非常迅速地做到這一點、順便說一句，如果你關心小人物的命運，關心那些出生在不利條件下的人的命運，你就應該特別支持它。

The better our country does, the better the people at the bottom will do, and that's why, and you need software to do these things.

我們的國家做得越好，底層人民就會做得越好，這就是為什麼，你需要軟件來做這些事情。

What about infrastructure?

基礎設施如何？

They're gonna spend now half a trillion dollars, private sector, Masa Sun and Sam Altman and Larry Ellison, to building infrastructure data centers, essentially, in this country.

他們現在要花費 5 萬億美元，私營部門，馬薩-孫、薩姆-奧特曼和拉里-埃裡森，在這個國家建設基礎設施數據中心，基本上是這樣。

How necessary is that, and how do you benefit?

這樣做有多大必要？

I don't know, you know, like, it's funny, we run Palantir, and this is like the most, like, in the book, one of the things I'm pretty interested in are things that are true that are not persuasive, so I'll give you a statement that's true and not persuasive.

我不知道，你知道，就像，這很有趣，我們運行 Palantir，這就像最，就像，在這本書中，我很感興趣的事情之一是，事情是真實的，沒有說服力，所以我會給你一個聲明，這是真實的，沒有說服力。

I'm not actually running the business thinking about how every little decision can help Palantir.

實際上，我在經營業務時並沒有考慮每一個小決定如何幫助 Palantir。

I'm not, and we're not, that's not how this business is run.

我沒有，我們也沒有，這不是我們的經營之道。

It never ran this way.

它從未這樣運行過。

At the founding moment, when I was sitting around with my co-founders, it wasn't like, how can we get as rich as possible?

在創立之初，當我和我的聯合創始人圍坐在一起時，我們並不是在想，怎樣才能儘可能地致富？

You know, it was like, how do we do something valuable?

你知道，這就像，我們如何做一些有價值的事情？

How do we make the value so great that even though no one wants to talk to us or be with us, that they will buy the product and keep buying it for their sake, and then a derivative of that, and then a derivative of that, of course, we're gonna get paid because we create a lot of value, and I've had customers who, for whom we've created a lot of value, they're like, I'm not sure I can have all that value.

我們如何讓價值變得如此之大，以至於即使沒有人願意和我們交談或相處，他們也會為了他們而購買產品並持續購買，然後是衍生產品，然後是衍生產品，當然，我們會得到報酬，因為我們創造了很多價值，而我的客戶，我們為他們創造了很多價值，他們會說，我不確定我能擁有所有這些價值。

I'm like, great, okay, most customers, most partners are pretty rational.

我想，很好，大多數客戶和合作夥伴都很理性。

If you deliver something that's really valuable, they're gonna pay you.

如果你能提供真正有價值的東西，他們就會付錢給你。

It was that way 20 years ago.

20 年前就是這樣。

It's been that way all the way through.

一直都是這樣。

How did we get five products to transform the world?

我們是如何讓五種產品改變世界的？

Two of them are like, or three of them now, are famous.

他們中的兩個，或者現在的三個，都很有名。

We changed the course of history with the anti-terror product in the beginning.

我們當初的反恐產品改變了歷史進程。

There's a product that we use in Apollo that's actually really important.

我們在阿波羅使用的一種產品非常重要。

It's highly technical.

技術性很強。

Leave that aside.

先不說這個。

Then you have Foundry and AIP or the Ontology.