You were saying off-camera that repeating patterns present unique challenges for effects.

你在鏡頭外說過，重複圖案給特效帶來了獨特的挑戰。

Yes.

是的。

Tell me about that.

說來聽聽。

Even on this set, we had, when you look at it initially, you kind of go, oh, it's just a big set.

即使是在這個片場，當你最初看到它的時候，你也會覺得，哦，這只是一個大片場。

But then you realize it's almost a mathematical problem.

但後來你會發現，這幾乎是一個數學問題。

We have the bridge repeats every 120 frames and degrees.

我們每隔 120 幀重複橋接一次。

Then you go and you look at the pipes, and the pipes repeat only every 180 degrees because you wanted to, it needs to play, it's part of what the story is.

然後你去看管道，管道每隔 180 度才重複一次，因為你想這樣做，它需要這樣做，這是故事的一部分。

Then you start realizing that when you're seeing repeating patterns, you look down the silo, it becomes very quickly, it just reads like a very long pipe with a spoke kind of And you need to break it.

然後，你開始意識到，當你看到重複的模式時，你往下看，筒倉很快就會變得像一個很長的管道，裡面有一個輻條。

You need to try and realize what I can do to still retain that kind of scope of a city and look like the way you look at Fifth Avenue and kind of go, I can recognize a city.

你需要嘗試並意識到我能做些什麼來保留城市的那種範圍，就像你在第五大道上看到的那樣，我可以認出一座城市。

What kind of triggers that in the horizon all the way up to close to where you're looking from.

是什麼觸發了地平線一直延伸到接近你所看到的地方？

And it's just about the movement of the crowd, how to break the textures of the concrete, the light, making it feel like it's not, you know, we couldn't have neon lights everywhere and just put distance signs, so we had to play with our own lighting and just break all those patterns with textures.

我們不能到處都是霓虹燈，也不能只放一些距離標誌，所以我們必須用自己的燈光，用紋理來打破所有這些模式。

For example, our farms, as you go further back, we let them kind of bloom and kind of pollute the atmosphere of the silo and just kind of slightly feel like, you know, a distant grow light is kind of a bit stronger and different colors and bringing magentas and cyans into the horizon, but not have them in the warm, closed environment of the silo.

例如，我們的農場，隨著時間的推移，我們會讓它們綻放，汙染筒倉的空氣，讓人稍稍感覺到，你知道，遠處的生長燈有點強，顏色也不一樣，會把洋紅和翠綠帶入地平線，但不會讓它們在筒倉溫暖、封閉的環境中生長。

I've been watching, walking through the sets here and they're so immersive, so all enveloping and yet you were showing me the show reel and you're still having to provide many times 100% of what's in the frame.

我一直在看，走過這裡的佈景，它們是如此的身臨其境，如此的全神貫注，而你給我看的是表演卷軸，你仍然必須提供很多時候畫面中 100%的內容。

Yes, we were obviously limited with how many variations of this world we can build.

是的，我們能構建的這個世界的變化顯然有限。

And when you start looking into it, we needed to create different, people need to constantly feel like they're moving up and down this place and feel different, like you want to be able to almost allow the audience to localize themselves in the space.

當你開始研究它的時候，我們需要創造不同，人們需要不斷地感受到他們在這個地方上上下下，感受到不同，就像你希望能夠讓觀眾在這個空間裡把自己本地化。

So, a lot of times when we moved on the floor, we had to start bringing in our blue screen.

所以，很多時候，當我們在地板上移動時，我們不得不開始把我們的藍屏帶進來。

As you can see, we have a lot of it, but just to retain the scope so we can have someone continuously walk from a floor and land on another floor without repeating the same set, without feeling that, oh, it's just one set repeating itself.

正如你所看到的，我們有很多，但只是為了保留範圍，這樣我們就可以讓一個人不斷地從一個樓層走到另一個樓層，而不會重複同樣的場景，也不會讓人覺得，哦，這只是一個場景的重複。

We wanted to constantly make sure that you feel like, oh, it's a new location or I'm familiar with that from the previous episode.

我們希望不斷確保讓你感覺到，哦，這是一個新的地點，或者我對上一集的內容很熟悉。

I'm now, I know exactly where I am, which is kind of an interesting play with how you make people that don't know the silo slowly get familiar with it and almost feel like by the end of the season, they could read, they can very quickly go, oh, that's upstairs.

我現在很清楚自己在哪裡，這也是一種有趣的玩法，你可以讓不瞭解筒倉的人慢慢熟悉筒倉，到了賽季結束時，他們幾乎就能讀懂，很快就能知道，哦，那就是樓上。

And you must end up with the same thing, like the silo must actually exist in your head.

你最終一定會得到同樣的結果，就像筒倉一定會在你的腦海中真實存在一樣。

We became the map keepers on the silo because, you know, we look at the blue and go, oh, if he looks this way, it's the wrong bridge.

我們成了筒倉的地圖保管員，因為，你知道，我們看著藍色就會想，哦，如果他看這邊，那就走錯橋了。

You need to rotate 120 degrees.

您需要旋轉 120 度。

The eye line from this bridge, when he looks 10 floors up, actually lands on the wrong bridge.

當他從這座橋上往 10 層樓上看時，他的視線實際上落錯了橋。

So how do we turn him around to make sure he's looking at the right person and he's looking back?

那麼，我們怎樣才能讓他轉過身來，確保他看對人，並回頭看呢？

Because we had a lot of those contacts of continuity between our set and what's happening above us or below.

因為我們的佈景和上面或下面發生的事情之間有很多連續性的聯繫。

Now, I think a lot of people think of special effects as kind of just a toolbox full of tools.

現在，我想很多人都認為特效只是一個裝滿工具的工具箱。

But I know that every shoot brings its own unique, specific challenges.

但我知道，每次拍攝都會帶來獨特而具體的挑戰。

What has been some of the biggest challenges in bringing the silo to the screen?

將 "筒倉 "搬上銀幕的最大挑戰是什麼？

The main, I would say there's been quite a few that kind of required their own solutions.

主要的，我想說有不少需要自己解決的問題。

One of the things about this silo is that there's no straight lines, which doesn't seem to strike you originally.

這個筒倉的特點之一是沒有直線，這似乎並沒有打動你。

But when you start dealing with crowd movements, it becomes a major thing you need to solve because suddenly you go, oh, someone walks down a stairs, a set of stairs.

但當你開始處理人群移動時，這就成了你需要解決的一個重要問題，因為你會突然發現，哦，有人走下了樓梯，一組樓梯。

Spiral staircase introduces a completely different body language of what it is walking downstairs.

旋轉樓梯引入了完全不同的肢體語言，讓人感受到走下樓梯的感覺。

Oh, especially if they're on the inside or the outside. So we mapped it kind of like we had rules for the silo.

哦，特別是如果他們在裡面或外面。 是以，我們繪製了筒倉規則圖。

But when we break the rules, someone's running up, he doesn't care about the rules of keep right or keep left.

但當我們破壞規則，有人跑起來時，他就不會在乎保持右側或保持左側的規則了。

So the stride of the stairs became a major thing we had to solve how to capture.

是以，樓梯的跨度成了我們必須解決的一個重要問題。

And we had to build our own set of stairs just for the motion captures to be able to have the correct physicality of if it takes two steps down each one of the steps or the very narrow inner kind of stairs.

我們不得不自己建造一套樓梯，以便進行動作捕捉，使其具有正確的物理特性，即每一級臺階都需要走兩步，或者是非常狹窄的內樓梯。

And it creates a completely different angle for the shoulder, the way your eye line looks when you kind of you're careful not to stumble down.

這樣，肩膀的角度就完全不同了，當你小心翼翼地不跌倒時，眼睛的線條也會完全不同。

And we had to build a whole texture of that.

我們必須建立一個完整的質地。

Then you have how do people step off the bridge or go on that small platform between the two different flights of stairs.

那麼，人們該如何走下橋，或者如何走上兩層樓梯之間的小平臺呢？

All those movements had to be captured so that we are not limited by our crowd and that we can continue continually see people walking on the outer rotunda.

所有這些動作都必須拍攝下來，這樣我們就不會受到人群的限制，可以繼續看到人們在外輪廊上行走。

So every curve suddenly changed the physicality of how we can capture our movement.

是以，每一條曲線都突然改變了我們捕捉動作的物理方式。

And that's crazy.

這太瘋狂了

It hadn't occurred to me.

我沒有想到這一點。

So did you end up like parceling out?

那麼，你最終喜歡包租嗎？

Because the stairs are getting wider, of course.

當然是因為樓梯越來越寬了。

Did you like separate it into zones?

你喜歡把它分區嗎？

So, you know, I'm walking zone one, zone two, zone three.

所以，你知道，我在走第一區，第二區，第三區。

We had to.

我們必須這樣做。

So on this season, we kind of we were taking it to the next level and we actually built our stairs in multiple ways so that we can go onto the bridge, off the bridge.

是以，在這一季中，我們將它提升到了一個新的高度，我們實際上以多種方式建造了我們的樓梯，這樣我們就可以上橋，也可以下橋。

And we had a proper flight of stairs because we went to the bigger motion capture set.

因為我們去的是更大的動作捕捉片場，所以我們有一段合適的樓梯。

Last season, because of limitations of how you can create the volume of motion capture, we created flight of stairs that are the different strides.

上一季，受限於動作捕捉的體積，我們製作了不同步幅的樓梯。

So we just had the very narrow inner stride, the middle one and the other one and had our stunt team kind of run up and down, walk.

是以，我們只用了很窄的內側跨步、中間跨步和另一條跨步，並讓我們的特技團隊跑上跑下、走來走去。

They had to.

他們必須這樣做。

You realize that very quickly, some things feel forced and don't quite work.

你很快就會意識到，有些事情讓人感覺很勉強，不太奏效。

And so we had to rebuild our motion capture approach for the silo.

是以，我們必須為筒倉重建動作捕捉方法。

And it's how people go around each other, even when you walk in a curved line.

這就是人們相互繞行的方式，即使你走的是一條彎曲的線。

So you need to push around.

所以，你需要推來推去。

And that's what the main thing for the silo was to not have what I call the classic stadium crowd, which is we have waving, we have cheering and flags.

這也是筒倉的主要目的，就是避免出現我所說的典型的體育場人群，即我們有揮手、歡呼和旗幟。

You wanted to not have the train station effect of people just walking back and forth.

你不想讓人們來回走動，產生火車站的效果。

So we have a lot of stories.

所以我們有很多故事。

If you look in the back of our silo and in some of the episodes, you can see a bunch of kids playing hide and seek because we wanted to feel like a city.

如果你看一下我們筒倉的後面，在一些情節中，你可以看到一群孩子在玩捉迷藏，因為我們想給人一種城市的感覺。

You know, it's a place people live in.

你知道，這是一個人們生活的地方。

So it doesn't always have that movement.

是以，它並不總是有這種運動。

You have rush hour, early morning, high noon.

有高峰時段、清晨和正午。

Every time they had a different approach.

每次他們都有不同的方法。

And then we had bespoke events.

然後，我們還舉辦了定製活動。

We had a race.

我們進行了一場比賽。

We had a festival.

我們舉辦了一個節日。

People need to react.

人們需要做出反應。

Someone is telling them now we're singing.

有人告訴他們，現在我們在唱歌。

So all those things layered up on our crowd build.

是以，所有這些事情都疊加在了我們的人群建設上。

It became a major challenge for both seasons.

這成為兩季的一大挑戰。

And in season two, you've got some underwater stuff.

在第二季中，你會看到一些水下的東西。

I'm curious what challenges are presented by effects underwater.

我很好奇水下效果會帶來哪些挑戰。

The idea of closing the door and turning on a garden hose got rejected.

關上門、打開花園水管的想法被否決了。

So we had to build a way of approaching the silo in a way that it's flooded.

是以，我們必須想出一種辦法，讓筒倉被水淹沒。

It's a new design in a way.

從某種程度上說，這是一種全新的設計。

And everything you think about, a curved world suddenly becomes quite different.

你所想的一切，一個彎曲的世界突然變得截然不同。

The water has its own lensing effect.

水有自己的透鏡效應。

So all of our round lines become...

是以，我們所有的圓線都變成了...

You're accommodating for the angle of refraction in water.

你要考慮到水中的折射角。

Which is one of the things when someone says, oh, we do underwater, that doesn't take care of it.

當有人說，哦，我們在水下工作，但這並不能解決這個問題。

And then you start thinking about it and you start testing and you go, oh, that is something we need to take into account for our camera tracking, for interaction of Juliet and how she deals with it.

然後你開始思考，開始測試，然後你會發現，哦，這是我們在攝影機跟蹤、朱麗葉的互動以及她如何處理這些問題時需要考慮的。

So all those refractive elements are things that we need to deal with.

是以，所有這些折射元素都是我們需要處理的問題。

We need to figure out, give it a look that is dirty, but find ways of...

我們需要弄清楚，給它一個骯髒的外觀，但找到方法...

Our silo is very dark as well.

我們的筒倉也很暗。

So we need to play with what tells the story of a flashlight rolling on windows.

是以，我們需要玩一玩手電筒在窗戶上滾動的故事。

So we cleaned in our model, we created clean spots on windows so that you can catch your own reflection.

是以，我們在模型中進行了清潔，在窗戶上創造了乾淨的位置，這樣你就能捕捉到自己的倒影。

Just to make it a bit scarier and a bit more like a set.

只是為了讓它更嚇人，更像一個佈景。

So I'm curious, given that you guys had to shut down for the strike, if during the time the strike was happening, did that give you time and perspective to think about what you were going to do when you came back to it?

所以我很好奇，鑑於你們不得不因為罷工而停工，在罷工期間，是否給了你們時間和視角來思考你們回來後要做什麼？

Did it give you a kind of different...

它是否給了你一種不同的...

Yes, it's a problem when you sit at home and you think about what I would have done.

是的，當你坐在家裡，想想我會怎麼做時，這就是個問題。

Actually, we should do it differently.

其實，我們應該換一種方式。

Who do you talk to about it? You sit at home and go, that's a really good idea.

你會跟誰談這件事？ 你坐在家裡想，這真是個好主意。

I should remember that and put it in your small notes.

我應該記住這一點，並把它記在你的小紙條上。

Potentially come back to it.

有可能再回來。

We kept working on some elements.

我們一直在研究一些元素。

So we were lucky enough to have finished shooting part of season two.

所以我們很幸運地完成了第二季的部分拍攝。

So that really helped us.

是以，這真的幫了我們大忙。

So you were able to actually continue.

所以，你還能繼續下去。

We could continue and that actually gave us a lot of ideas on what can or should happen.

我們可以繼續，這實際上給了我們很多關於可以或應該發生什麼的想法。

There wasn't such a time crunch because there's not more shots arriving.

時間並不緊張，因為沒有更多的鏡頭到達。

Exactly.

沒錯。

We had a section of it.

我們有一段。

It was a bit of a challenge because we haven't finished shooting.

這是一個挑戰，因為我們還沒有完成拍攝。

Usually you want to see everything, but it allowed us to really wrap our heads around some of the challenges we're going to deal with.

通常情況下，你想看到一切，但它讓我們真正瞭解了我們將要應對的一些挑戰。

With the underwater silo, with the underwater steps, which we had to build.

我們必須建造水下筒倉和水下臺階。

And kind of small things.

還有一些小事。

Ropes underwater compared to air hose.

水下繩索與空氣軟管相比。

Oh, right.

哦，對了。

So, you know, when someone goes in, a rope is heavy and sinks, the air hose floats.

所以，你知道，當有人下水時，繩子很重，會沉下去，而空氣軟管會浮起來。

And then you need to extend it.

然後你需要擴展它。

We went to shoot in the Pinewood tank.

我們去松林水箱拍攝。

Oh, you have to give your digital cables their own physics.

哦，你得讓數字電纜擁有自己的物理特性。

All physics and all movement.

一切物理，一切運動。

And then you frame and you go, oh, that rope is pulling this way.

然後你就會發現，哦，那根繩子在往這邊拉。

The air hose is pulling that way.

空氣軟管是往那邊拉的。

Let's wrap our heads around what she's interacting with.

讓我們來看看她在和什麼互動。

Oh my gosh.

我的天啊

A lot of it is extensions because we're going so deep underwater that really we couldn't put it into a normal water tank.

其中很大一部分是延伸部分，因為我們要深入水下，實在無法將其放入普通水箱中。

A lot of it had to be cheap.

很多東西都很便宜。

We had to put her sideways.

我們不得不把她側放。

We had to use water movers to create movement when she's static.

當她靜止不動時，我們不得不使用水動裝置來製造動感。

So we had divers with...

是以，我們讓潛水員與...

Fans.

粉絲們

Fido's.

Fido's

Pushing water. Very effective because it pushes the bubble.

推水。 非常有效，因為它能推動氣泡。

It pushes the air.

它能推動空氣。

And then you feel, oh, I'm reading movement.

然後你會覺得，哦，我在讀運動。

Then we have to create our parts to help that movement by having the backward move with it.

然後，我們必須創造自己的部件，讓後退的部件與運動的部件一起運動，從而幫助運動。

Well, so after all of this time, you guys are wrapping photography in just a few weeks.

好吧，經過這麼長時間的努力，你們再過幾周就要結束攝影工作了。

But your job doesn't end there.

但你的工作並沒有就此結束。

You've got a lot more stuff to do.

你還有很多事情要做。

Until you get to see it at home.

直到你在家裡看到它。

And maybe a little bit after.

也許之後還會有一點。

And you guys are working on effects almost right up until the airing.

你們幾乎一直在製作特效，直到播出。

Is that true?

這是真的嗎？

You push.

你推。

There's a lot of effects.

有很多效果。

And even on the smaller things when it's just, oh, there's something in the window.

即使是很小的事情，只要是 "哦，窗戶裡有東西"。

There's a small fix in the background.

後臺有一個小修復。

A lot of those things, we just work on it until you manage to deliver the entire season.

很多事情，我們都會一直努力，直到你能完成整個賽季。

I'm curious.

我很好奇。

Is there a shot that you feel a tremendous amount of pride over?

有沒有一個鏡頭讓你感到無比自豪？

Or like that was one of your favorites of the season?

或者說，這是你本季最喜歡的節目之一？

On season one.

關於第一季

Season one or season two.

第一季或第二季

Season two, it will come.

第二季，會到來的。

I'll be proud of it when it's done.

完工後，我將引以為豪。

We sign off the last pixel. But yeah, I think I'm very happy with the generator room as a sequence.

我們在最後一個像素上簽字 不過，我對發電機房的整體效果還是很滿意的。

We have a few shots there that are for me just.

我們在那裡拍了幾張照片，只屬於我。

That sequence is one of my favorite engineering sequences in a thing.

那段情節是我最喜歡的工程情節之一。

I was saying to you off camera, a lot of time engineering sequences are strange belief is a nice way to put it.

我在鏡頭外跟你說，很多時候工程序列都是奇怪的信念，這是個不錯的說法。

And that one felt really grounded in the world.

那部電影給人的感覺非常接地氣。

Rebecca's performance is amazing.

麗貝卡的表演令人驚歎。

What you guys gave her to work on feels so real.

你們給她的工作感覺如此真實。

And yeah, it was very important to give her something to actually interact with.

是的，給她一些實際的互動是非常重要的。

It's very easy to drift into, oh, let's just put everything on blue because we're already doing so much blue.

我們很容易陷入這樣的誤區：哦，那就把所有東西都放在藍色上吧，因為我們已經做了太多藍色的東西了。

But it was really about how do we connect?

但這其實是關於我們如何建立聯繫？

Let her have something to work with.

讓她有事可做。

Let all the cast be in the same place.

讓所有演員都在同一個地方。

And at the same time, because of the way the set was structured in height, it was actually split into three different sets.

同時，由於佈景的高度結構，它實際上被抽成了三個不同的佈景。

So a lot of shots you had to solve.

所以，你必須解決很多鏡頭。

How do we get someone to step out in one set and connect with Juliet sitting at the top of a massive...

我們怎樣才能讓一個人在一個場景中走出來，與坐在一個巨大...

In a totally different room.

在一個完全不同的房間裡。

Which is a different set, which had to be done because of safety and height.

這是一套不同的設備，出於安全和高度的考慮，不得不這樣做。

Yeah.

是啊

We hit the ceiling at some point.

我們在某些時候遇到了天花板。

But how to connect it and how to not limit the director that wanted to be able to move handheld, the energy of the sequence required as motion control was ruled out because of placement weight and how to do it.