In this episode, we are going to talk about the MP-LAD scheme, the Members of Parliament Local Area Development Scheme, as you would be aware, is a central government scheme which enables each Member of Parliament to recommend developmental works to the tune of 5 crore rupees per year to be taken up in his or her constituency.

在本期節目中，我們將討論 "議員地方發展計劃"（MP-LAD），大家都知道，"議員地方發展計劃 "是中央政府的一項計劃，它使每位議員都能建議在自己的選區開展每年高達 5 億盧比的發展工程。

Now, this scheme was announced on the 23rd of December 1993 with its administration then with the Ministry of Rural Development.

該計劃於 1993 年 12 月 23 日宣佈，當時由農村發展部負責管理。

But since 1994, the administration of the scheme has been vested with the Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation, which is responsible for prescribing guidelines on how the scheme would be implemented and monitored by various authorities.

但自 1994 年以來，該計劃一直由統計和計劃執行部負責管理，該部負責制定關於如何實施該計劃的指導方針，並由各部門進行監督。

The Ministry revised the guidelines in 2023, making it simpler to understand and easier to implement.

該部於 2023 年修訂了指導方針，使其更易於理解和執行。

Besides, it also amended the fund flow mechanism and launched the e-Sakshi portal for implementing, monitoring and analysing the impact of the scheme effectively.

此外，它還修訂了資金流動機制，並推出了 e-Sakshi 門戶網站，以有效實施、監測和分析該計劃的影響。

So to talk about the importance of this portal, the implementation of the new guidelines and other necessary steps to ensure that the benefits of the scheme directly flow to the people, I am delighted to welcome on this edition of podcast, Dr. Sourabh Garg, Secretary, Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation.

是以，在本期播客中，我很高興邀請到統計和計劃執行部祕書 Sourabh Garg 博士，請他談談該門戶網站的重要性、新指南的實施情況以及確保該計劃直接惠及民眾的其他必要措施。

Thank you very much for your time.

非常感謝你抽出時間。

Welcome to CENSORED TV.

歡迎收看 CENSORED TV。

To begin with and to make it simpler for the viewers to understand, tell us about what is the primary objective of the MP-LADS scheme?

首先，為了讓觀眾更容易理解，請告訴我們 "MP-LADS "計劃的主要目標是什麼？

First of all, thank you for having me here.

首先，感謝您邀請我來這裡。

The main objective of the MP-LADS, which is the Members of Parliament Local Area Development Scheme, is to ensure that development works are carried out in the constituencies of the respective MPs for the creation of durable community assets, which are based on the locally felt needs of the people.

MP-LADS 即 "議員地方發展計劃"，其主要目標是確保在各議員選區開展發展工程，根據當地人民的需求創造持久的社區資產。

So that is very crucial.

是以，這一點非常關鍵。

Number one, they have to be durable community assets.

第一，它們必須是持久的社區資產。

Individual assets are not allowed.

不允許個人資產。

And second is that they are based on the locally felt needs of the people.

其次，它們以當地人民的需求為基礎。

And to that extent, they seek to fulfill the requirements of the people, which perhaps is not being fulfilled by other central or state government programs.

從這個意義上說，這些計劃旨在滿足人民的要求，而中央或州政府的其他計劃可能無法滿足這些要求。

So how is it different from the other centrally sponsored schemes?

那麼，它與其他中央資助計劃有何不同？

So I would say in fact, MP-LADS is one of us, perhaps a very unique scheme in one sense that most other schemes have a restriction of the area or the sector that they operate in.

是以，我想說的是，事實上，MP-LADS 是我們中的一個，也許從某種意義上說，它是一個非常獨特的計劃，因為其他大多數計劃都有其運作地區或行業的限制。

For example, a health ministry scheme would be talking of health.

例如，衛生部的計劃就是在談衛生。

It could be education.

可能是教育。

It could be irrigation.

可能是灌溉。

MP-LADS has no such restrictions.

MP-LADS 沒有此類限制。

They can operate in any sector, which as long as it is a locally felt need.

它們可以在任何部門開展業務，只要是當地有需求。

So that's one big difference.

這就是一個很大的區別。

The second is that this scheme involves a direct involvement of the members of parliament.

其次，該計劃涉及議員的直接參與。

The members of parliament are free to recommend works of up to 5 crore per annum in their constituency and it is directly decided by them and of course implemented by the local district administration.

國會議員可自由建議在其選區內實施每年不超過 50 億美元的工程，並由他們直接決定，當然也由地方行政部門負責實施。

So how does it benefit the people?

那麼，它是如何造福人民的呢？

And because people elect members to the Lok Sabha directly, to the Rajya Sabha it's an indirect procedure, but the Rajya Sabha members are also elected from a particular state.

因為人民直接選舉人民院議員，而聯邦院議員則是間接選舉，但聯邦院議員也是從特定的邦選舉產生的。

So if I may ask you about how it impacts or affects or benefits the voters?

那麼，我想請問您，這對選民有什麼影響或作用或好處？

So as I mentioned that each member of parliament has funds of up to 5 crores per annum to be spent on any durable community asset in the area.

是以，正如我所提到的，每位議員每年都有高達 5 億美元的資金，可用於該地區任何耐用的社區資產。

So the people benefit directly from the availability of these assets and they are to be done based on their felt needs.

是以，人民直接受益於這些資產的可用性，而且這些資產是根據他們的需求來提供的。

So therefore if there is a certain area which requires either a road or it requires an Anganwadi building or a school building or it requires an open gym or any such activity and the local people send a message or petition the local MP that they would like to do it.

是以，如果某個地區需要修建道路，或者需要建造 Anganwadi 建築或學校建築，或者需要建造開放式體育館或開展任何此類活動，而當地居民向當地國會議員發出資訊或請願，表示他們希望這樣做。

So it's a kind of a direct benefit that flows to the people by the availability of this community asset.

是以，有了這一社區資產，人們就能直接受益。

So let's now understand the utilization of the MP lads.

現在，讓我們來了解一下 MP 的使用情況吧。

What is the procedure for the allocation?

分配的程序是什麼？

So you said 5 crore is allocated to each MP, but tell us about the procedure and how this is allocated.

您說每個議員可獲得 50 億美元，那麼請告訴我們分配的程序和方式。

So each Lok Sabha has a very Lempi has a very clear area defined their constituencies and in their constituencies they select a nodal district which acts as a kind of a monitoring mechanism or the nodal district from where the projects they can recommend to the projects and the nodal district also helps in terms of monitoring audit and those kind of activities.

是以，每個人民院都有一個非常明確的選區，在他們的選區內，他們選擇一個節點區，作為一種監督機制或節點區，從那裡他們可以向項目推薦項目，節點區也有助於監督審計和這些活動。

There can be more than one district in a member of Parliament's constituency.

一名議員的選區可以不止一個。

So any one of those districts is a nodal district others are implementing districts.

是以，其中任何一個區都是節點區，其他區則是執行區。

The projects can be in any of the districts.

這些項目可以在任何一個地區開展。

It's not limited to being only in the nodal district.

它不僅限於在節點地區。

For a Rajya Sabha MP there is no particular constituency of a district their entire state is their constituency.

對於聯邦院議員來說，沒有特定的選區，整個邦都是他們的選區。

So they can recommend projects in the entire state and there are no such restrictions of any particular district, but they also notionally identify a district from where it's easier for them to interact etc.

是以，他們可以推薦全州的項目，沒有任何特定地區的限制，但他們也會在概念上確定一個地區，在那裡他們更容易進行互動等。

So there's no restriction as far as the district is concerned, but are there restrictions on the kind of projects that they can recommend or if you could tell us more about what are the kind of projects?

是以，就地區而言沒有任何限制，但對他們可以推薦的項目類型是否有限制，或者您能否告訴我們更多關於項目類型的資訊？

Yes, as I mentioned the projects have to be a durable community asset.

是的，正如我提到的，這些項目必須是持久的社區資產。

These sectors are very wide because the sectors can be in education, in public health, agriculture, railways, roads, bridges, recreational facilities, sports, games.

這些部門非常廣泛，因為它們可以是教育、公共衛生、農業、鐵路、公路、橋樑、娛樂設施、體育、遊戲等部門。

So the area or the sectors are extremely wide and in case there's a particular sector which doesn't exist even that can be added as long as it's a durable community asset.

是以，該領域或部門非常廣泛，如果某個部門不存在，只要它是一項持久的社區資產，也可以加入進來。

There's only one area where individual assets are also allowed and that is to people who are physically challenged, who have some disability.

只有一個領域也允許個人資產，那就是身體有殘疾的人。

So they can be given individual assets.

是以，他們可以獲得個人資產。

It might be a tricycle, it might be any other such equipment which will improve their productivity that can be given.

這可能是一輛三輪車，也可能是任何其他可以提高他們生產率的設備。

Apart from this, one other area where they can give outside the district is in case of a natural calamity and depending on the severity of the calamity, they can either give for example 25 lakhs outside their area or in case if it's a very, very severe calamity, a national calamity, then it can even be given up to a 1 crore and then there are no area restrictions which apply.

除此以外，他們還可以在本地區以外的地區進行捐贈，比如在發生自然災害時，根據災害的嚴重程度，他們可以在本地區以外的地區捐贈 2500 萬，如果是非常非常嚴重的災害，即全國性的災害，甚至可以捐贈 100 萬，而且沒有地區限制。

Okay, you know the administration of MPLADS has been under MOSPI over the last 30 years, although when it began for a year or so it was under the Ministry of Rural Development.

好的，你知道，在過去的 30 年裡，MPLADS 的行政管理一直隸屬於社會政策和公共秩序部（MOSPI），儘管在開始的一年左右時間裡，它是隸屬於農村發展部的。

So in 30 years or so, tell us about some of the successfully implemented projects under MPLADS.

那麼在 30 年左右的時間裡，請告訴我們在 MPLADS 系統下成功實施的一些項目。

Yeah, so I mean there have been a host of projects in every district I can say across the country, both in the rural areas and the urban areas.

是的，所以我的意思是，我可以說在全國的每個地區，無論是農村地區還是城市地區，都有大量的項目。

Just to give an example, open gyms are something which have been set up in many places.

舉個例子，很多地方都建立了開放式健身房。

High mast lighting which is required in urban areas, that has been set up in many places.

城市地區所需的高杆照明，已在許多地方安裝。

Some places have constructed medical colleges and of course school buildings, Anganwadi buildings, they are a large number.

一些地方修建了醫學院，當然還有校舍和 Anganwadi 校舍，數量眾多。

Even for example, seasonal rivers which would cut out some villages, there have been bridges constructed on top of that.

例如，季節性河流會截斷一些村莊，但在這些河流上修建了橋樑。

So I think the area of operations has covered the entire gamut of any sector that you can think of which is required at the village level or the panchayat level and it has been used very, very successfully.

是以，我認為業務領域已經涵蓋了你所能想到的村一級或村民委員會一級所需的所有部門，而且使用得非常非常成功。

While I was reading, I got to know that some of the changes have been made, although the guidelines are tweaked from time to time at regular intervals.

在閱讀的過程中，我瞭解到，雖然指導原則會定期進行調整，但其中的一些變化已經做出。

The last revision happened last year in 2023, but the fund flow procedure was also amended.

上一次修訂發生在去年的 2023 年，但資金流動程序也進行了修訂。

If you could help us understand what is the kind of change that has been made and keeping in mind the use of technology as well, the e-sakshi portal.

如果您能幫助我們瞭解所做的改變是什麼，並牢記技術的使用，即 e-sakshi 門戶網站。

So tell us about how effective that also has been.

那麼，請告訴我們這樣做的效果如何。

So I think one of the biggest changes that has happened over the last year or so is the fact that we moved away totally from a pen and paper procedure, which was the earlier norm that it would go by writing to districts, districts would send it to implementing agencies and there would be reports of the paper getting lost somewhere.

是以，我認為過去一年多發生的最大變化之一，就是我們完全摒棄了紙筆程序，而紙筆程序是早先的常規程序，即通過書面形式發送給各地區，各地區再發送給執行機構，而且會有報告稱紙張不知道丟到哪裡去了。

So now we have both a portal and a mobile app and any project can be recommended by the Honorable Member of Parliament on the mobile app or the portal and it goes from the portal down directly the implementing district or the nodal district can download the recommendation.

是以，我們現在有一個門戶網站和一個移動應用程序，任何項目都可以由尊敬的國會議員在移動應用程序或門戶網站上提出建議，並從門戶網站直接下發到執行地區或節點地區，以便下載建議。

They can identify which is the implementing agency, send it to them on the portal itself and the implementing agency can upload the draft plans of the building and the sanction order is also generated on the portal.

他們可以確定哪個是實施機構，然後在門戶網站上發送給他們，實施機構可以上傳建築計劃草案，準許令也會在門戶網站上生成。

So eliminates any kind of chances of miscommunication or the messages not going but more importantly also ensures one that there is no time lost in the messaging and number two at any stage through the dashboard the Member of Parliament or their office or the implementing districts or the implementing agencies can see what are the projects that are being implemented, what states they have reached, what is the financial progress, there is also provision to upload for example photographs and on the different milestones so that you can have a visual feel of what states the project has reached.

這樣就消除了任何形式的溝通不暢或資訊傳遞不暢的機會，但更重要的是，還確保了第一，資訊傳遞不會浪費時間；第二，在任何階段，通過儀表板，議員或他們的辦公室或執行地區或執行機構都可以看到正在實施的項目是什麼，已經達到了什麼狀態，財務進展如何，還可以上傳照片和不同里程碑上的照片，這樣你就可以直觀地感受到項目已經達到了什麼狀態。

So in terms of you know the fact that every concerned department should be well trained, what are the necessary steps that the ministry has undertaken since the revision has happened and in terms of also facilitating effective implementation to the change that we have made?

那麼，就每個相關部門都應接受良好培訓這一事實而言，自修訂發生以來，該部採取了哪些必要步驟，以及如何促進有效實施我們所做的變革？

So this has been done at various levels, one is obviously we have ensured that these guidelines changes have been sent across to all of them so that they can know what is there.

是以，我們在不同層面上開展了這項工作，首先，我們顯然已經確保將這些準則的變化傳達給了所有這些機構，以便他們能夠了解其中的內容。

We have done training programs both in person and virtually with the districts and the state governments to inform them about these changes that have happened including for the funds flow as you mentioned which funds through the PFMS system they flow directly to whoever is when that is implementing.

我們與各地區和州政府開展了面對面和虛擬的培訓項目，向他們介紹已經發生的這些變化，包括您提到的資金流動情況，通過 PFMS 系統，資金直接流向執行者。

So these training programs have been done in Delhi, they have been done elsewhere and as well as virtually and more importantly even for the members of parliament during the dissent session we had a kiosk outside the parliament in the parliament house as annexe so that the MPs can discuss and understand what are the systems, what are the guidelines and their offices have also been briefed.

是以，我們在德里和其他地方都開展了這些培訓項目，更重要的是，我們甚至在議會異議會議期間為議員們在議會外的議會大廈內設置了一個小亭子作為附件，以便議員們可以討論並瞭解哪些是制度，哪些是指導方針，他們的辦公室也聽取了情況介紹。

So I think these have really helped improve the awareness about the program.

是以，我認為這些確實有助於提高人們對該計劃的認識。

So while there are consistent efforts on part of your ministry to ensure that the procedure is as seamless and transparent as possible, do you also face challenges as far as implementing the scheme is concerned and making the stakeholders understand?

是以，儘管貴部一直在努力確保程序儘可能無縫和透明，但在實施計劃和讓利益相關者理解方面，你們是否也面臨挑戰？

Yes of course challenges are always there in any scheme implementation, one is very often they are not fully aware about the guidelines which exist.

當然，任何計劃的實施都會面臨挑戰，其中之一就是他們往往不完全瞭解現有的指導方針。

Very often now we have introduced a new provision in the mobile app and the portal which through which even people can directly upload their requests and the MPs can see what has been requested.

現在，我們經常在移動應用程序和門戶網站中引入新的規定，通過這些規定，人們甚至可以直接上傳他們的請求，而國會議員也可以看到他們的請求。

So I think one of the challenges always remains is to increase the awareness about the scheme, increase awareness about the guidelines and to ensure that the work is done on time on the ground.

是以，我認為挑戰之一始終是提高對該計劃的認識，提高對指導方針的認識，並確保在實地按時完成工作。

Over the past few years we have also seen how the government has gone and merged several of these schemes or pooled them together for better results.

在過去的幾年裡，我們也看到了政府是如何將其中的幾項計劃合併或集中起來以取得更好的效果的。

Is it possible that MP-LADS also be effectively pooled with other centrally sponsored schemes for better results?

MP-LADS 是否也可以與其他中央資助的計劃有效結合，以取得更好的效果？

Yes, see there is a restriction in MP-LADS that the total amount of funds available is five crores for a constituency and there could be some projects which alone require a larger amount of funds.

是的，《MP-LADS》中有一項限制，即一個選區的可用資金總額為 5 億美元，有些項目可能需要更多的資金。

So therefore the provision exists that dovetailing of different funds from different schemes whether of the state or of the centre both can be done and due to which the total volume of work that is done by leveraging the MP-LADS funds increases to so much extent.

是以，無論是邦還是中央的不同計劃的不同資金都可以進行對接，這樣，通過利用 MP-LADS 資金完成的工作總量就會大大增加。

Have there been any examples, any projects where this procedure has happened wherein the MP-LADS has been pooled with any other government scheme in the past?

過去是否有任何例子，任何項目曾發生過這種程序，將 MP-LADS 與任何其他政府計劃彙集在一起？

Oh yes, I mean there are projects whether you look at under the Khelo India program in provision of equipment etc for the Amritsarovar program which entailed deepening of water bodies across the country, Swachh Bharat Abhiyan, so a number of programs and Manrega of course where that is one program where there are certain restrictions among the amount of material that can be done so they have been dovetailed with Manrega.

哦，是的，我的意思是說，無論你是在為阿姆利則沙羅瓦計劃提供設備的 "Khelo India "項目下，還是在 "Swachh Bharat Abhiyan "計劃下，都會有一些項目，比如 "Swachh Bharat Abhiyan "計劃，所以有很多項目，當然還有 "Manrega "計劃，該計劃對可完成的材料數量有一定的限制，所以這些項目都與 "Manrega "計劃相吻合。

So these have been done across the country in different districts.

是以，這些工作已在全國不同地區展開。

You know despite the restrictions it's been a success on the face of it to us it appears as a hugely successful one but the challenges are something that those who are implementing would understand the backstage players.

要知道，儘管有種種限制，但從表面上看，它還是非常成功的。

When you pool such schemes on one side are the benefits on the other side of the challenges so tell us about both in fact.

當你把這些計劃彙集在一起時，一邊是利益，另一邊是挑戰，所以請告訴我們這兩方面的情況。

So I suppose the challenges remain in terms of ensuring that the guidelines of the different scheme can be subsumed in each other.

是以，我認為在確保不同計劃的指導方針能夠相互融合方面仍然存在挑戰。

Fortunately the MPLADS has a lot of flexibility in its guidelines that as long as it's a durable community asset it should be possible to do it.

幸運的是，MPLADS 的指導原則有很大的靈活性，只要是持久的社區資產，就應該可以這樣做。

There are challenges of funds flow that funds which flow from different schemes need to be made available to the implementing agency at the right time.

資金流動面臨挑戰，不同計劃的資金需要在適當的時候提供給執行機構。

So that of course would require a greater amount of coordination at the district level especially of the district collector or the district authorities that needs to be done.

是以，這當然需要在地區一級進行更多的協調，特別是需要地區負責人或地區當局進行協調。

And I think more importantly the ability to visualize and vision envision that a particular project which is facing problems of funding of implementation how to pool together different schemes and that a lot depends on the ability to think out of the box and look at funds which can be used.

我認為，更重要的是要有想象力和遠見卓識，設想一個面臨資金和實施問題的特定項目如何彙集不同的計劃，而這在很大程度上取決於是否有能力跳出條條框框，尋找可以利用的資金。

Certainly so while that is something that you do there are also times we come across news that the MPLADS fund has remained underutilized or unutilized what are the or unutilized funds this is something which is given to the MPs to you know take care of their constituency and their voters.

當然，雖然這是你要做的事情，但有時我們也會遇到這樣的新聞，即 MPLADS 基金仍未得到充分利用或未被使用。

So what are the factors that lead to this kind of situation?

那麼，導致這種情況的因素是什麼呢？

So I think a lot of these factors used to be there in the past and a majority of them were related to procedural delays and process delays because of the pen and paper mechanism that was there.

是以，我認為過去有很多這樣的因素，其中大部分都與程序延誤和流程延誤有關，因為當時有紙和筆的機制。

With the introduction of the mobile app and the portal it has become seamless in terms of being able to recommend a project view what is the process made and ensure that it gets implemented.

隨著移動應用程序和門戶網站的推出，我們可以無縫地推薦一個項目，查看所制定的流程並確保其得到實施。

And one other area which really helps is that MPLADS is a non-lapsable fund.

另外，MPLADS 是一個不可撤消的基金，這一點也很有幫助。

So in case a certain district or a certain constituency there are some funds left they get rolled over to the next year or to the next person who gets elected.

是以，如果某個地區或某個選區還剩下一些資金，這些資金就會被轉到下一年或下一個當選的人身上。

So the district as a whole or the constituency never suffers but the people benefit though there might be certain time lags but I'm hopeful that with eShakshi mobile app even these will not be there.

是以，整個地區或選區都不會受到影響，但人民卻能從中受益，雖然可能會有一定的時間差，但我希望有了 eShakshi 移動應用程序，這些問題都將不復存在。

So do you want water sir?

你要水嗎，先生？

I won't mind water.

我不介意喝水

More or less done?

完成得多還是少？

No sir, we've recorded about 17 minutes.

不，先生，我們已經記錄了大約 17 分鐘。

Okay, we still have a long time to go.

好吧，我們還有很長的路要走。

Another 10 minutes or so. 8 to 10 minutes.

再 10 分鐘左右。8 到 10 分鐘。

Can I leave it out here or should I put it down?

我可以把它放在這裡嗎？

Leave it here.

放在這裡

Okay, continue.

好的，繼續

So do you believe there could be other strategies that could be adopted for better utilization of the MPLADS funds?

那麼，您是否認為可以採取其他戰略來更好地利用 MPLADS 資金？

I think one area where we have done some work and we can improve further is awareness among the people that these funds are available.

我認為，我們已經做了一些工作，而且還可以進一步改進的一個方面是，讓人們瞭解這些資金是可以利用的。

We've recently, as I mentioned earlier, we've introduced a provision in the portal and the mobile app of people being able to upload their suggestions on what work needs to be done.

正如我之前提到的，我們最近在門戶網站和移動應用程序中引入了一項規定，即人們可以上傳他們對需要完成的工作的建議。

So that has started so that will give a bigger pool of projects which the honourable member of parliament can examine and suggest that needs to be done.

是以，這項工作已經開始，這將提供一個更大的項目庫，議會議員可以對其進行審查，並提出需要完成的建議。

The second area in a way we have taken care of by the fact that the sanction and the uploading of estimates and plans can be done online.

在某種程度上，我們已經解決了第二個方面的問題，即可以在線審批和上傳估算和計劃。

So that reduces the time of implementation.

這樣就縮短了實施時間。

So with the greater awareness among people and the faster implementation, I think both these two would help to ensure that the funds get utilized so much faster.

是以，隨著人們認識的提高和執行速度的加快，我認為這兩點將有助於確保資金得到更快的利用。

Are there also steps that can be taken to ensure further transparency, more accountability in the way these funds are utilized?

是否還可以採取一些措施，確保這些資金的使用方式更加透明、更加負責？

Yes, one of the things that we have introduced in the portal is the ability to upload, for example, photographs of the progress of works.

是的，我們在門戶網站上推出的功能之一就是上傳工程進度照片等。

And there's also the provision for the general public of a constituency to be able to view what kind of projects are being done.