The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy.

通往和平與繁榮的道路或許就是參與外交。

We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States is America engaging in diplomacy.

我們試過喬-拜登的辦法，即捶胸頓足，假裝美國總統的話比美國總統參與外交更重要。

That's what President Trump is doing.

這就是特朗普總統正在做的事情。

Can I ask you?

我能問你嗎？

Sure.

當然。

Yeah? Okay.

是嗎？ 好吧

So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea.

是以，他佔領了我們的部分地區、烏克蘭的大部分地區、東部和克里米亞的部分地區。

So he occupied it on 2014.

於是，他在 2014 年佔據了它。

So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those time was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump, and God bless, now President Trump will stop him.

是以，在很多年裡，我說的不僅僅是拜登，而是奧巴馬，然後是奧巴馬總統，然後是特朗普總統，然後是拜登總統，現在是特朗普總統，上帝保佑，現在特朗普總統將阻止他。

But during 2014, nobody stopped him.

但在 2014 年，沒有人阻止他。

He just occupied and took.

他只是佔領和索取。

He killed people.

他殺了人。

You know what the contact was?

你知道聯絡人是誰嗎？

2015. 2014. 2014 is when?

2015.2014.2014 是什麼時候？

2014.

2014.

Yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊。

So he killed- I was not here.

所以他殺了我

Yeah, but- That's exactly right.

是的，但是-- 這就對了。

Yes, but during 2014 till 2022 was the situation the same.

是的，但在 2014 年至 2022 年期間，情況也是如此。

People have been dying on the contact line.

有人死在了聯絡線上。

Nobody stopped him.

沒有人阻止他。

You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversation, my bilateral conversation, and we signed with him, me, like a new president in 2019, I signed with him the deal.

你知道，我們與他進行了對話，很多對話，我的雙邊對話，我們與他簽署了協議，我，就像 2019 年的新總統，我與他簽署了協議。

I signed with him, Macron and Merkel, we signed ceasefire.

我與他、馬克龍和默克爾簽署了停火協議。

Ceasefire, all of them told me that he will never go.

所有的人都告訴我，他永遠不會走。

We signed him gas contract, gas contract.

我們給他簽了天然氣合同，天然氣合同。

Yes, but after that, he broken the ceasefire.

是的，但在那之後，他破壞了停火協議。

He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners.

他殺了我們的人，卻沒有交換戰俘。

We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it.

我們簽署了交換戰俘的協議，但他沒有這麼做。

What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about?

你說的是什麼樣的外交，JD？

What do you mean?

什麼意思？

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

我說的是那種能結束你們國家毀滅的外交。

Yes, but if- Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.

是的，但如果--總統先生，恕我直言，我認為您走進橢圓形辦公室，試圖在美國媒體面前提起訴訟，這是不尊重人的行為。

Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems.

現在，你們四處奔走，強迫新兵上前線，因為你們有人力問題。

You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conflict.

你應該感謝總統試圖把它帶入這場衝突。

I've never been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have.

我從來沒有去過烏克蘭，你說我們有什麼問題。

I have been to- Then count one.

我已經-- 那就數一個吧。

I've actually watched and seen the stories and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President.

事實上，我看過這些報道，我知道發生了什麼，總統先生，你帶著人們，帶著他們進行宣傳之旅。

Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?

你是否不同意你在吸收人員入伍方面遇到的問題？

We have problems.

我們有問題。

Do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

你認為來到美利堅合眾國的橢圓形辦公室，攻擊試圖阻止國家毀滅的政府，是一種尊重嗎？

A lot of questions.

很多問題

Let's start from the beginning. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems.

讓我們從頭開始。 首先，在戰爭期間，每個人都會遇到問題。

Even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.

即使是你，但你有美麗的大海，現在感覺不到，但將來會感覺到。

God bless- You don't know that.

上帝保佑--你不知道。

God bless, God bless, you will not have a war.

上帝保佑，上帝保佑，你們不會有戰爭。

Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

不要告訴我們會有什麼感覺。

We're trying to solve a problem.

我們正在努力解決問題。

Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

不要告訴我們會有什麼感覺。

I'm not telling you.

我不會告訴你的

Because you're in no position to dictate that.

因為你沒有資格說三道四。

That's exactly what you're saying.

你說的正是這個意思。

You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

你沒有資格左右我們的感受。

We're going to feel very good.

我們會感覺非常好。

You will feel influence.

你會感受到影響力。

We're going to feel very good and very strong.

我們會感覺非常好，非常強大。

You will feel influence.

你會感受到影響力。

You're right now not in a very good position.

你現在的處境並不好。

You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about it.

你讓自己處於非常糟糕的境地，而他恰好是對的。

From the very beginning of the war, Mr. President, I was- You're not in a good position.

從戰爭一開始，總統先生，我就... 你的處境並不好。

You don't have the cards right now.

你現在沒有牌。

With us, you start having cards.

有了我們，您就可以開始擁有卡片。

I'm not playing cards.

我不玩牌

Right now, you're not playing.

現在，你不玩了。

You're playing cards.

你在玩牌

I'm very serious, Mr. President.

我是認真的，總統先生。

You're playing cards.

你在玩牌

I'm very serious.

我是認真的。

You're gambling with the lives of millions of people.

你在拿數百萬人的生命做賭注。

You're gambling with World War III.

你在拿第三次世界大戰做賭注。

You're gambling with World War III.

你在拿第三次世界大戰做賭注。

And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have.

你的所作所為是對這個國家的大不敬，這個國家對你的支持遠遠超過了很多人所說的應該有的支持。

Have you said thank you once this entire meeting?

整個會議期間，你說過一次謝謝嗎？

No.

不

In this entire meeting, have you said thank you?

在整個會議中，你說過謝謝嗎？

You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.

你在十月份前往賓夕法尼亞州為反對黨助選。

Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

對美利堅合眾國和試圖拯救你們國家的總統說幾句感謝的話。

Please.

請。

You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can- He's not speaking loudly.

你以為只要你大聲談論戰爭，你就能--他沒有大聲說話。

He's not speaking loudly.

他說話聲音不大。

Your country is in big trouble.

你們的國家有大麻煩了

Can I answer?

我能回答嗎？

No, no.

不，不

You've done a lot of talking.

你已經說了很多了。

Your country is in big trouble.

你們的國家有大麻煩了

I know.

我知道

You're not winning.

你贏不了

You're not winning this.

你贏不了的

You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us.

因為我們，你有一個很好的機會出來。

We are staying in our country, staying strong.

我們留在祖國，堅強不屈。

From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone and we are thankful.

從戰爭一開始，我們就孤軍奮戰，我們心存感激。

I said thanks in this cabinet. You haven't been alone.

我在這個櫃子裡說了謝謝。 你並不孤單

We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion.

我們通過這位愚蠢的總統給了你們 3500 億美元。

You voted for your president.

你為你的總統投了票。

We gave you military equipment and you men are brave but they had to use our military- What about if you didn't have our military equipment?

我們給了你們軍事裝備，你們也很勇敢，但他們不得不使用我們的軍事裝備--如果你們沒有我們的軍事裝備呢？

You invited me to speak- If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks, okay?

如果你們沒有我們的軍事裝備 這場戰爭兩週內就會結束，好嗎？

In three days.

三天後

I heard it from Putin.

我是聽普京說的。

In three days.

三天後

This is something- Maybe less.

這是一些東西--也許更少。

In two weeks.

兩週後

Of course, yes.

當然，是的。

It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you.

我告訴你，這樣的生意很難做。

Just say thank you.

說聲謝謝就好。

Accept that there are disagreements and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong.

接受存在分歧的事實，讓我們去為這些分歧打官司，而不是在自己錯了的時候試圖在美國媒體上爭吵。

We know that you're wrong.

我們知道你錯了。

But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on here.

但你看，我覺得讓美國人民看看這裡發生了什麼是件好事。

I think it's very important.

我認為這非常重要。

That's why I kept this going so long.

這就是為什麼我堅持了這麼久。

You have to be thankful.

你必須心存感激。

You don't have the cards.

你沒有牌

I'm thankful.

我很感激。

You're buried there.

你被埋在那裡

People are dying.

人們正在死去。

I can tell you- You're running low on soldiers.

我可以告訴你，你的阿兵哥不多了

Don't, please.

別這樣

You're running low on soldiers.

你的阿兵哥不多了

It would be a damn good thing.

這將是一件非常好的事情。

Mr. Brett.

佈雷特先生

Then you tell us, I don't want a ceasefire.

那你告訴我們，我不想停火。

I don't want a ceasefire.

我不想停火。

I want to go and I wanted this.

我想去，我想要這個。

Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.

聽著，如果你現在能停火，我告訴你，你就接受停火，這樣子彈就不會再飛了，你的人也不會再被殺了。

Of course, we want to stop the war.

當然，我們希望停止戰爭。

But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire.

但你說你不想要停火。

I want a ceasefire.

我希望停火。

With guarantees.

有保障。

Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement.

因為停火比達成協議更快。

Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think.

問問我們的人民對停火的看法。

That wasn't with me.

那不是我。

That wasn't with me.

那不是我。

That was with a guy named Biden, who was not a smart person.

那是和一個叫拜登的人在一起，他不是個聰明人。

That was with Obama.

那是奧巴馬。

It was your president.

是你們的總統。

Excuse me.

打擾一下

That was with Obama, who gave you sheets and I gave you javelins.

那是奧巴馬，他給你們床單，我給你們標槍。

I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks.

我給了你標槍，讓你幹掉那些坦克。

Obama gave you sheets.

奧巴馬給了你床單

In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins.

事實上，說法是奧巴馬給了床單，特朗普給了標槍。

You got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards.

你得更加感恩，因為讓我告訴你，你沒有底牌。

With us, you have the cards.

有了我們，您就有了底牌。

But without us, you don't have any cards.

但沒有我們，你們就沒有任何卡片。

Caitlyn, I do want to because there were a lot of things that were just not true, aside from just the tone and tenor and the monumental historic, not in a good way, historic event that we just saw in the in the Oval Office.

凱特琳，我想說的是，除了語氣和基調，以及我們剛剛在橢圓形辦公室裡看到的具有歷史意義的不朽事件（不是好的方面）之外，還有很多事情並不屬實。

Caitlyn, it really did seem to devolve when the vice president said to Zelensky, we just want diplomacy.

凱特琳，當副總統對澤倫斯基說，我們只想通過外交途徑解決問題時，情況似乎真的發生了變化。

And what Zelensky was trying to do was say, we had that.

澤倫斯基想說的是，我們已經有了。

We had a deal with Russia.

我們與俄羅斯達成了協議。

We had an agreement, the Minsk agreement.

我們有一項協議，即明斯克協議。

And Russia didn't abide by it.

而俄羅斯並沒有遵守。

So I want some guarantees that that won't happen again.

是以，我希望能得到一些保證，確保這種情況不會再次發生。

And then it devolved in a way that is is really, really remarkable.

然後，它以一種非常、非常了不起的方式發生了變化。

The screaming.

尖叫聲

I mean, you have been with Donald Trump a lot.

我的意思是，你一直和唐納德-特朗普在一起。

We have seen and heard about Trump getting upset and losing his temper.

我們看到和聽到特朗普心煩意亂、發脾氣。

I think this is probably the first time we have seen it like this on camera.

我想這可能是我們第一次在鏡頭前看到這樣的場景。

We all should say, Caitlyn, that that let's just be clear.

凱特琳，我們都應該說清楚。

I'm not saying that there wasn't genuine anger here, but he understands when the television cameras are there, as does J.D.

我不是說這裡沒有真正的憤怒，但他和 J.D. 一樣，都明白電視攝影機在那裡。

Vance.

萬斯

And we can't lose sight of the performance aspect of this.

我們不能忽視性能方面的問題。

It was incredibly genuine, though.

但這是令人難以置信的真誠。

I mean, J.D.

我是說，J.D.

Vance said that this shouldn't be litigated in front of the press.

萬斯說，不應該在媒體面前提起訴訟。

Trump said, actually, no, it should be.

特朗普說，實際上，不，應該是這樣。

I'm glad that this is happening.

我很高興有這樣的事情發生。

And, you know, the way that this built, just to give context of the 40 minutes that happened before what you just watched, the most remarkable part of this interaction was there were moments where President Zelensky would do what we saw the other European leaders do this week, where they step in to to correct either on aid to Ukraine or to talk about Putin and the fact that he can't be trusted.

而且，你知道，這種建立的方式，只是為了給你剛才觀看的40分鐘之前發生的事情提供背景，這種互動最引人注目的部分是，有一些時刻，澤倫斯基總統會做我們看到的其他歐洲領導人本週所做的事情，他們介入糾正對烏克蘭的援助或談論普京以及他不可信任的事實。

At one point, Zelensky called him a killer and saying that there should be no compromises with him.

有一次，澤倫斯基稱他為殺手，並說不應該向他妥協。

And the U.S. officials were sitting there just kind of listening to this.

美國官員就坐在那裡聽著。

And it was at that point, though, where Vice President Vance stepped in.

就在這時，副總統萬斯插了進來。

Trump was silent at the beginning of that.

特朗普一開始就保持沉默。

And then Trump also got involved.

然後，特朗普也捲了進來。

And then they were just essentially yelling at one another in this.

然後，他們基本上就是在互相謾罵。

And with Trump, all of his diplomacy, we know, is personal.

我們知道，特朗普的所有外交活動都是針對個人的。

That's why the world leaders who have come here this week have tried to flatter him to essentially get what they want when it comes to negotiating the end of this.

這也是為什麼本週來到這裡的世界各國領導人都試圖奉承他，以便在談判結束這場戰爭時得到他們想要的東西。

And that was not what we just saw, the tack that Zelensky took here.

而我們剛才看到的，澤倫斯基在這裡採取的策略並非如此。

He was, as Zelensky typically is, straightforward in his opinions.

正如澤倫斯基通常所做的那樣，他的觀點直截了當。

And what is the reality on the ground?

當地的實際情況如何？

It was kind of chastising President, Vice President Vance for not having come to Ukraine.

這是在責備萬斯副總統沒有來烏克蘭。

And at one point earlier, when Trump was asked if he would go to Ukraine, Zelensky was saying that was what he was going to ask Trump as well.

早些時候，當特朗普被問及是否會前往烏克蘭時，澤倫斯基曾說這也是他要問特朗普的問題。

He's emphasized a lot that he thinks these U.S. officials need to be there.

他多次強調，他認為這些美國官員需要在那裡。

But to give you a sense of how this negotiation is going, right now, they are meeting behind closed doors.

不過，為了讓你們瞭解談判的進展情況，現在他們正在閉門會談。

They're supposed to come out for a press conference any minute now.

他們隨時可能出來開新聞發佈會。

And that's where they're signing that minerals agreement that they've been touting as a big first step here.

這就是他們要簽署礦產協議的地方，他們一直在吹噓這是重要的第一步。

There are real questions about what this looks like going forward, because you heard what President Trump said to me there at the end.

因為你也聽到了特朗普總統最後對我說的話。

I asked, can the two of you still go in a room and negotiate after what just happened?

我問，發生了剛才的事，你們倆還能進房間談判嗎？

And he said, we'll see, essentially.

他說，我們會看到的。

And Dana, there was one moment where I looked around the room at the officials who were there.

丹娜，有那麼一刻，我環視了一下在場的官員們。

It's the top Ukrainian advisers, the secretary of state to President Trump, the treasury secretary, Vice President Vance, obviously, the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States had her head buried in her hands as this shouting match was going on between the three of them.

這是烏克蘭的高級顧問、特朗普總統的國務卿、財政部長、副總統萬斯，很明顯，烏克蘭駐美國大使在他們三人之間大喊大叫的時候，把頭埋在了手裡。

Yes, I saw you put that on social media.

是的，我看到你在社交媒體上這麼說了。

It is one of the many.

它是眾多因素之一。

There you go.

這就對了。

We're putting it up on the screen now.

我們現在把它放到螢幕上。

That is the Ukrainian ambassador, as you said.

正如你所說，那是烏克蘭大使。

I mean, talk about her worst nightmare.

我是說，這簡直是她最可怕的噩夢。

She was literally watching it unfold before her eyes in the Oval Office.

她在橢圓形辦公室裡親眼目睹了這一切的發生。