【TED】陸克文：中美註定要發生衝突嗎？(Are China and the US doomed to conflict? | 陸克文) (【TED】Kevin Rudd: Are China and the US doomed to conflict? (Are China and the US doomed to conflict? | Kevin Rudd))

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G'day, my name's Kevin.

大家好！我是凱文，
I'm from Australia. I'm here to help.

我來自澳洲，我是來救你們的！
(Laughter)

(笑聲)
Tonight, I want to talk about a tale of two cities.

今晚我想要談另一本雙城記，
One of those cities is called Washington, and the other is called Beijing.

一個是華盛頓另一個則是北京。
Because how these two capitals shape their future

因為這兩大首都要如何打造它們共同的未來，
and the future of the United States and the future of China

美國的未來和中國的未來，
doesn't just affect those two countries,

不只是影響這兩個國家，
it affects all of us

還會影響到我們每一個人；
in ways, perhaps, we've never thought of:

也許透過我們從沒想到過的方式，
the air we breathe, the water we drink,

諸如我們呼吸的空氣、所喝的水、
the fish we eat, the quality of our oceans,

所吃的魚、海洋的品質、
the languages we speak in the future,

未來所使用的語言、
the jobs we have, the political systems we choose,

所擁有的工作、所選擇的政治制度，
and, of course, the great questions of war and peace.

還有對戰爭及和平的大哉問等等。
You see that bloke? He's French.

看見這個人沒 ? 他是法國人，
His name is Napoleon.

他叫「拿破崙」，
A couple of hundred years ago,

數百年前他做出這個令人意想不到的預言：
he made this extraordinary projection:

「中國是沉睡中的獅子，
"China is a sleeping lion, and when she awakes,

當她醒來時，這個世界將會晃動！」
the world will shake."

拿破崙以前做錯過一些事，
Napoleon got a few things wrong;

他講這句話卻是一分不差的，
he got this one absolutely right.

因為今天中國不只醒來了，
Because China is today not just woken up,

還站了起來，向前邁進。
China has stood up and China is on the march,

對我們所有人來講，
and the question for us all

問題是中國會往那裡去 ?
is where will China go

還有我們該如何與這個二十一世紀的巨頭打交道 ?
and how do we engage this giant of the 21st century?

你們正看著的這些數據，會極大地挑戰你的設想，
You start looking at the numbers, they start to confront you in a big way.

數據預測中國在任何計算方法之下，
It's projected that China will become,

例如購買力平價、市場匯率等，
by whichever measure -- PPP, market exchange rates --

在未來的十年內，
the largest economy in the world

將會成為世界上最大的經濟體。
over the course of the decade ahead.

中國已經是最大的貿易國家、
They're already the largest trading nation,

最大的出口國、
already the largest exporting nation,

最大的製造國家，
already the largest manufacturing nation,

還是世界上最大的碳排放體，
and they're also the biggest emitters of carbon in the world.

美國則是第二大的碳排放體。
America comes second.

所以如果中國成為了世界上最大的經濟體，
So if China does become the world's largest economy,

想一下這情景，
think about this:

這將會是第一次，
It'll be the first time

打從這位老兄 ─ 喬治三世貴為英國國王以來，
since this guy was on the throne of England --

他跟破崙的交情不太好，
George III, not a good friend of Napoleon's --

我們即將有世界最大的一個經濟體
that in the world we will have as the largest economy

既乃非英語系國家、
a non-English speaking country,

非西方的國家、
a non-Western country,

非自由民主制國家。
a non-liberal democratic country.

假使你不認為這會影響到
And if you don't think that's going to affect

未來會發生在世界的事，
the way in which the world happens in the future,

我單方面認為你可能抽過什麼煙了，
then personally, I think you've been smoking something,

這不代表你是來自科羅拉多州啦。
and it doesn't mean you're from Colorado.

簡言之今晚我們的問題就是
So in short, the question we have tonight is,

我們要如何來認清這個巨大的變動？
how do we understand this mega-change,

我認為這會是二十一世紀上半世紀最大的變動。
which I believe to be the biggest change for the first half of the 21st century?

這會影響到很多事情，
It'll affect so many things.

這絕對會是關鍵，
It will go to the absolute core.

變動正安靜、持續地在上演，
It's happening quietly. It's happening persistently.

正你掌握不到的地方上演，
It's happening in some senses under the radar,

當我們全心關注在烏克蘭會怎樣、
as we are all preoccupied with

中東會怎樣、
what's going in Ukraine, what's going on in the Middle East,

伊斯蘭國會怎樣、
what's going on with ISIS, what's going on with ISIL,

我們經濟的未來又會怎樣？
what's happening with the future of our economies.

這是緩慢、安靜的變革。
This is a slow and quiet revolution.

巨大的變動同時會帶來巨大的挑戰，
And with a mega-change comes also a mega-challenge,

而巨大的挑戰就是這兩個超級城市 ─
and the mega-challenge is this:

中國與美國，
Can these two great countries,

中國 ─
China and the United States --

天下中心的國度；
China,

還有，美國
the Middle Kingdom,

其中文意思是美麗的國家，
and the United States,

這個名字是早在一百年前中國幫它取的。
Měiguó --

這兩個偉大的文明、國家，
which in Chinese, by the way, means "the beautiful country."

是否可以在現實中為他們自己以及這世界
Think about that -- that's the name that China has given this country

開創出共同的未來？
for more than a hundred years.

簡言之我們能否開創出
Whether these two great civilizations, these two great countries,

和平共榮的未來呢？
can in fact carve out a common future

還是我們即將要面臨
for themselves and for the world?

要戰爭或是和平的巨大挑戰？
In short, can we carve out a future

而我有15分鐘的時間來講要戰爭或是和平，
which is peaceful and mutually prosperous,

比起他們給這傢伙寫「戰爭與和平」這本書的時間，
or are we looking at a great challenge

我們的時間有點緊湊！
of war or peace?

人們問我為什麼一個在澳洲鄉間長大的小孩
And I have 15 minutes to work through war or peace,

會想要學習中文呢？
which is a little less time

我有兩個理由，
than they gave this guy to write a book called "War and Peace."

這是其中第一個：貝蒂牛
People ask me, why is it that a kid growing up in rural Australia

貝蒂牛是一種乳牛，
got interested in learning Chinese?

我在澳洲鄉間與牠們一起長大，
Well, there are two reasons for that.

看到這兩隻手了嗎？它們並不是用來做農事的。
Here's the first of them.

所以從很早開始我就發現了，
That's Betsy the cow.

事實上在農場工作並不適合我，
Now, Betsy the cow was one of a herd of dairy cattle

而中國是一個非常安全的地方能遠離在澳洲農場工作的生活。
that I grew up with on a farm in rural Australia.

這是第二個理由：我媽媽
See those hands there? These are not built for farming.

這裡有誰曾經認真聽過媽媽的話？
So very early on, I discovered that in fact, working in a farm

有誰曾經就照著去做呢？
was not designed for me, and China was a very safe remove

我很少做到過。
from any career in Australian farm life.

但是我媽媽跟我說的話，
Here's the second reason.

有天她遞給了我一份報紙，
That's my mom.

頭條告訴我們現在有了重大的變動，
Anyone here ever listen to what their mom told them to do?

變動就是中國即將要加入聯合國，
Everyone ever do what their mom told them to do?

在 1971 年我剛滿14歲，
I rarely did,

她遞給了我這則頭條新聞，
but what my mom said to me was,

她說看懂來、記起來，
one day, she handed me a newspaper,

因為這將會影響到你的未來！
a headline which said, here we have a huge change.

因此身為一個優秀的歷史系學生，
And that change is China entering the United Nations.

我決定好我最該做的事情，
1971, I had just turned 14 years of age,

就是去學中文。
and she handed me this headline.

學中文最棒的事情就是中文老師會幫你取一個新名字，
And she said, "Understand this, learn this,

因此他們幫我取這個新名字，
because it's going to affect your future."

「克」：代表克服或是征服，
So being a very good student of history,

「文」：就是代表文學或藝術的字，
I decided that the best thing for me to do was, in fact,

「克文」：征服經典文學的人，
to go off and learn Chinese.

你們有誰叫「凱文」的嗎？
The great thing about learning Chinese

這是個重大的升等，從「凱文」到被叫成「征服經典文學的人」。
is that your Chinese teacher gives you a new name.

(笑聲)
And so they gave me this name:

我已經被叫「凱文」一輩子了，
Kè, which means to overcome or to conquer,

你們是不是也已經被叫「凱文」一輩子了呢？
and Wén, and that's the character for literature or the arts.

你會不會更喜歡被叫成「征服經典文學的人」呢？
Kè Wén, Conqueror of the Classics.

所以後來我就飛去了中國，進入了澳洲外事館工作，
Any of you guys called "Kevin"?

但那裡人外有人、天外有天，你總有踢到鐵板的時候。
It's a major lift from being called Kevin to be called Conqueror of the Classics.

我是在北京的澳洲外館，
(Laughter)

就在人民大會堂的旁邊，
I've been called Kevin all my life.

陪著我們的大使，他讓我為他在人民大會堂的第一場會議做翻譯。
Have you been called Kevin all your life?

所以我就在那裡，
Would you prefer to be called Conqueror of the Classics?

假使你曾經參加過中國人的會議，那是大型的U型桌，
And so I went off after that and joined the Australian Foreign Service,

在 U 型桌頂部是非常顯赫的高官領導人，
but here is where pride -- before pride, there always comes a fall.

而在桌尾則是沒那麼顯赫的高官領導人、
So there I am in the embassy in Beijing,

以及像我一般的小助理們。
off to the Great Hall of the People

而大使先生一開頭就講了句粗俗的話，
with our ambassador, who had asked me to interpret for his first meeting

他說：「中國與澳洲最近正享受著
in the Great Hall of the People.

前所未見的親密關係！」
And so there was I.

我自己想說
If you've been to a Chinese meeting, it's a giant horseshoe.

這聽起來很不得體又奇怪，
At the head of the horsehoe are the really serious pooh-bahs,

我要給它修改一下。
and down the end of the horseshoe are the not-so-serious pooh-bahs,

記進你的筆記裡：「千萬別做這種事！」
the junior woodchucks like me.

這句話需要更優雅、更經典一些，
And so the ambassador began with this inelegant phrase.

所以我翻譯如下：
He said, "China and Australia are currently enjoying a relationship

「澳、中關係最近處於高潮關係 [中語]」，
of unprecedented closeness."

整個房間的其他角落都停頓了，
And I thought to myself,

你可以看見巨型U形桌頂部的高官領導人們整個臉色翻白，
"That sounds clumsy. That sounds odd.

在 U 型桌尾端另一邊的小助理，
I will improve it."

發出了毫不節制的宏亮笑聲。
Note to file: Never do that.

因為當我在翻譯大使的句子，
It needed to be a little more elegant, a little more classical,

「澳洲與中國正享受著
so I rendered it as follows.

前所未見的親密關係。」
[In Chinese]

我實際上所說的卻是「澳洲與中國
There was a big pause on the other side of the room.

現在正體驗著絕妙的性高潮」，
You could see the giant pooh-bahs at the head of the horseshoe,

(笑聲)
the blood visibly draining from their faces,

那是我最後一次被要求做翻譯。
and the junior woodchucks at the other end of the horseshoe

但是在這個小故事裡有讓人長智慧的事，
engaged in peals of unrestrained laughter.

就是當你認為你瞭解了這個
Because when I rendered his sentence,

有連續五千年歷史之不凡文化的某些東西，
"Australia and China are enjoying a relationship

總還是有新東西得學。
of unprecedented closeness,"

歷史是跟我們反向的，
in fact, what I said was that Australia and China

當美國和中國
were now experiencing fantastic orgasm.

要一起打造出一個共同的未來，
(Laughter)

看到上頭這個人沒？
That was the last time I was asked to interpret.

他不是中國人、也不是美國人，
But in that little story, there's a wisdom, which is,

他是希臘人名叫「修昔底德」，
as soon as you think you know something about this extraordinary civilization

他寫了「伯羅奔尼撒戰爭史」，
of 5,000 years of continuing history,

就雅典與斯巴達的關係他做出這個不凡的觀察：
there's always something new to learn.

「正正是雅典的崛起以及其崛起給斯巴達引發的恐懼，
History is against us

使得戰爭避無可避。」
when it comes to the U.S. and China

因此整本書講的是所謂的「修昔底德陷阱」。
forging a common future together.

這傢伙他不是美國人、不是希臘人，他是個中國人，
This guy up here?

他的名字是「孫子」，他寫了「孫子兵法」；
He's not Chinese and he's not American.

如果大家看看下面的銘文，就明白他文章的深意：
He's Greek. His name's Thucydides.

「攻其不備，出其不意」
He wrote the history of the Peloponnesian Wars.

用在中國和美國之間好像不太好。
And he made this extraordinary observation

這位老兄是美國人，叫做「葛雷厄姆‧艾利森」，
about Athens and Sparta.

事實上他是哈佛大學甘迺迪政府學院的老師，
"It was the rise of Athens and the fear that this inspired in Sparta

就在波士頓那邊，
that made war inevitable."

他此時正在做單一計畫的研究：
And hence, a whole literature about something called the Thucydides Trap.

「在崛起的力量與既有最大力量之間，
This guy here? He's not American and he's not Greek. He's Chinese.

有關戰爭避無可避的修昔底德陷阱，
His name is Sun Tzu. He wrote "The Art of War,"

是否可適用於未來的中美關係？」
and if you see his statement underneath, it's along these lines:

這是個關鍵的問題。
"Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."

葛雷厄姆所做的就是探究自從西元1,500年以來
Not looking good so far for China and the United States.

歷史裡的15個案例，
This guy is an American. His name's Graham Allison.

來確定這些先例的本質；
In fact, he's a teacher at the Kennedy School

讓我來告訴你，
over there in Boston.

它們 15 個裡面有 11 個，
He's working on a single project at the moment, which is,

是完覆於災禍性之戰爭。
does the Thucydides Trap about the inevitably of war

你可能會說：「不過凱文
between rising powers and established great powers

或是征服經典文學的人，
apply to the future of China-U.S. relations?

那是往事了，
It's a core question.

我們現在是活在一個互相依靠和全球化的世界，
And what Graham has done is explore 15 cases in history

不可能會再發生那種事的啦！」
since the 1500s

你猜怎麼著，
to establish what the precedents are.

經濟歷史學家告訴我們，
And in 11 out of 15 of them,

事實上我們達到經濟整合和全球化之最高境界，
let me tell you,

時間是在 1914年，
they've ended in catastrophic war.

剛好在「第一次世界大戰」發生前，
You may say, "But Kevin --

那是一個來自歷史發人深省的思辨。
or Conqueror of the Classics --

因此要是我們要探討
that was the past.

中國、美國是如何思考、感受、以及定位自己與對方的關係，
We live now in a world of interdependence and globalization.

我們如何營造出
It could never happen again."

讓這兩個國家合作之基礎。
Guess what?

讓我先來講
The economic historians tell us that in fact,

在現實中，中國對美國和其他西方國家的觀點，
the time which we reached the greatest point

第一點、中國覺得是讓人糟蹋了，
of economic integration and globalization

在長達一百年歷史的西方折磨，
was in 1914,

始於「鴉片戰爭」，
just before that happened, World War I,

其後西方列強分割中國使其破碎，
a sobering reflection from history.

這時候時間來到了20至30年代，
So if we are engaged in this great question

像這種的標語出現在上海的街頭上：
of how China thinks, feels,

[ 狗與中國人禁止進入！]
and positions itself towards the United States,

要是在自己的國家看到了這標語，
and the reverse,

假若你是中國人會有什麼感受呢？
how do we get to the baseline

中國也相信和感受到
of how these two countries and civilizations

如同 1919 年在「巴黎和會」上的事項，
can possibly work together?

當時德國的殖民地都被還給世界上的所有國家，
Let me first go to, in fact,

而德國在中國的殖民地怎麼了？
China's views of the U.S. and the rest of the West.

它們被還給了日本，
Number one: China feels as if it's been humiliated

當日本在1930 年代侵略中國，
at the hands of the West through a hundred years of history,

這世界當成眼不見為淨，並且對中國的事和未來很冷淡，
beginning with the Opium Wars.

此外直到今天中國堅信
When after that, the Western powers carved China up into little pieces,

美國和西方
so that by the time it got to the '20s and '30s,

並不承認其政治體系的正當性，
signs like this one appeared on the streets of Shanghai.

因為其大大有異於那些自由民主國家，
["No dogs and Chinese allowed"]

而且堅信美國直到今天還試圖要破壞他們的政治體系，
How would you feel if you were Chinese,

中國也堅信它被美國的盟友，
in your own country, if you saw that sign appear?

和那些中國周邊與美國做策略同盟的國家給制約住。
China also believes and feels

此外中國人在其內心深處、骨子裡有這種感覺，
as if, in the events of 1919, at the Peace Conference in Paris,

那些合稱西方的我們
when Germany's colonies were given back

不過就是傲慢至極罷了，
to all sorts of countries around in the world,

我們並沒有找出自身體系上、政治上和經濟上的問題
what about German colonies in China?

但卻很會來指責別人，
They were, in fact, given to Japan.

中國還認為合稱西方的我們
When Japan then invaded China in the 1930s

在一大串的偽善行為裡是有過錯的。
the world looked away and was indifferent to what would happen to China.

當然了，
And then, on top of that, the Chinese to this day believe

國際關係一個巴掌是拍不響的，
that the United States and the West

也還有另一個的國家，它就叫做「美國」。
do not accept the legitimacy of their political system

那麼美國如何回應所有以上這些呢？
because it's so radically different from those of us who come

美國對以上每一點都做了回應；
from liberal democracies,

在美國是否制約著中國這問題上，
and believe that the United States to this day is seeking

美國說：「才不是呢，看看蘇聯的歷史，那才叫制約！
to undermine their political system.

相反地我們美國和西方
China also believes that it is being contained

歡迎中國進到全球經濟裡頭，
by U.S. allies and by those with strategic partnerships with the U.S.

除此之外還歡迎他們進入世界貿易組織。」
right around its periphery.

美國和西方說中國在智慧財產權的問題上作假，
And beyond all that, the Chinese have this feeling

而且透由網路來打擊美國和跨國的公司；
in their heart of hearts and in their gut of guts

更甚者美國說中國的政治體系徹底就是個錯誤，
that those of us in the collective West

因為它在本質上是如此殊異於
are just too damned arrogant.

美國與合稱西方的我們所享有的人權、民主、法制；
That is, we don't recognize the problems in our own system,

除此以外，美國還說了什麼？
in our politics and our economics,

美國擔心當中國有了足夠力量
and are very quick to point the finger elsewhere,

將會營造一個影響東南亞和大東亞的氛圍
and believe that, in fact, we in the collective West

要把美國趕走，
are guilty of a great bunch of hypocrisy.

當中國夠強大了，
Of course, in international relations,

就會試圖單方面地來改變全球秩序的常規。
it's not just the sound of one hand clapping.

除了以上講的這些之外，
There's another country too, and that's called the U.S.

美中關係還是良好的，
So how does the U.S. respond to all of the above?

並沒有實質的問題存在。
The U.S. has a response to each of those.

然而，挑戰正是那些根深蒂固的感受，
On the question of is the U.S. containing China,

那些根深蒂固的情緒以及想法，
they say, "No, look at the history of the Soviet Union. That was containment."

也就是中國人所謂的「思維」，亦即思考的方式，
Instead, what we have done in the U.S. and the West

我們可以如何打造出兩者之間共同未來的基礎？
is welcome China into the global economy,

我只想講這個：
and on top of that, welcome them into the World Trade Organization.

「為了共同目標，在有建設性之務實基礎上，我們做得到。」
The U.S. and the West say China cheats

什麼意思呢？
on the question of intellectual property rights,

對我們不認同的事情上要務實，
and through cyberattacks on U.S. and global firms.

而且運用方法讓這些差異
Furthermore, the United States says that the Chinese political system

無法引起戰事或衝突，
is fundamentally wrong

直到我們終於具備可解決這些問題的外交技巧。
because it's at such fundamental variance

在這兩大國之間雙邊、區域、
to the human rights, democracy, and rule of law that we enjoy

全球參與的領域要有建設性，
in the U.S. and the collective West.

那將會對所有人類有利；
And on top of all the above, what does the United States say?

成立區域性的機構讓亞洲區域合作可行，
That they fear that China will, when it has sufficient power,

讓亞太區域的合作可行。
establish a sphere of influence in Southeast Asia and wider East Asia,

在全球有更大的動作，
boot the United States out,

就像你們去年年底開始那樣
and in time, when it's powerful enough,

攜手協力來抵制氣候變化，
unilaterally seek to change the rules of the global order.

而非以拳頭相對。
So apart from all of that, it's just fine and dandy,

當然，這前提是你們有一個共有的機制，
the U.S.-China relationship.

和政治意志來達成這一事業，
No real problems there.

這些事是可以實現的。
The challenge, though, is given those deep-rooted feelings,

不過問題是：單邊努力是否能實現這些？
those deep-rooted emotions and thought patterns,

理智告訴我們應該要做這些事，
what the Chinese call "Sīwéi," ways of thinking,

但是我們的內心呢？
how can we craft a basis for a common future between these two?

我在國內對這問題有些許經驗，
I argue simply this:

要是兩個民族在過去不曾有過太多的共通處
We can do it on the basis on a framework

如何讓他們站在一起？
of constructive realism for a common purpose.

那時我向澳洲的原住民致歉，
What do I mean by that?

這對澳洲政府、國會、澳洲的百姓來說
Be realistic about the things that we disagree on,

是個翻舊帳的日子，
and a management approach that doesn't enable

經過兩百年對澳洲原住民無止境的折磨以來，
any one of those differences to break into war or conflict

我們白人早就該說對不起了。
until we've acquired the diplomatic skills to solve them.

很重要的一件事，
Be constructive in areas of the bilateral, regional and global engagement

(掌聲)
between the two,

我記得很重要的一件事是
which will make a difference for all of humankind.

當那些澳洲土著來聽這個道歉時，
Build a regional institution capable of cooperation in Asia,

凝視著他們的臉；
an Asia-Pacific community.

很難置信，比方說
And worldwide, act further,

年長女性們告訴我，當她們五歲大時，
like you've begun to do at the end of last year

硬生生從父母身邊被帶走了的故事，
by striking out against climate change

像是這邊的這位女士。
with hands joined together rather than fists apart.

對我來說非凡的是，澳洲土著長者來到國會大樓時
Of course, all that happens if you've got a common mechanism

我能夠擁抱和親吻他們；
and political will to achieve the above.

一位女性跟我說
These things are deliverable.

在她生命裡這是第一次被白人小哥親過，
But the question is, are they deliverable alone?

她當時已經70多歲了，
This is what our head tells us we need to do,

這是令人難過的事。
but what about our heart?

之後我記得有個家庭向我說道：
I have a little experience in the question back home

「我們從遙遠的北方一路開車下殺到坎培拉，
of how you try to bring together two peoples

為了這件事而來，
who, frankly, haven't had a whole lot in common in the past.

一路穿越鄉巴佬地區，
And that's when I apologized to Australia's indigenous peoples.

接受道歉後回程路上停在一間咖啡館買杯奶昔。」
This was a day of reckoning in the Australian government,

他們安靜地、試探性地、輕手輕腳地
the Australian parliament, and for the Australian people.

帶點焦慮地走進咖啡館。
After 200 years of unbridled abuse towards the first Australians,

我想你應該知道我在講什麼，
it was high time that we white folks said we were sorry.

但是道歉後的那天發生了什麼事呢？
The important thing --

咖啡館的每個人、每個白人，
(Applause)

站了起來還鼓掌，
The important thing that I remember is staring in the faces

在這些澳洲人的心中已經產生了變化，
of all those from Aboriginal Australia

這些白人、澳洲土著同胞心中發生了變化。
as they came to listen to this apology.

雖然我們還沒把所有問題處理好，
It was extraordinary to see, for example,

但是讓我來告訴你，那是個新開始，
old women telling me the stories of when they were five years old

因為我們不只理智上接受了，
and literally ripped away from their parents,

我們心裡也接受了。
like this lady here.

所以這如何總結我們今晚
It was extraordinary for me to then be able to embrace

所要處理的大問題？
and to kiss Aboriginal elders as they came into the parliament building,

亦即美中關係的將來會怎樣？
and one woman said to me,

理智告訴我們有辦法前進，
it's the first time a white fella had ever kissed her in her life,

理智告訴我們透過例行高峰會議
and she was over 70.

借助政策系統、共同的故事、機制，
That's a terrible story.

來做這些事情使其更好。
And then I remember this family saying to me,

不過內心也一定要找出個方法來重新想像
"You know, we drove all the way from the far North down to Canberra

美中關係的可能性，
to come to this thing,

以及未來中國參與世界的可能性。
drove our way through redneck country.

有時候我們只是需要跳出深信的道理，
On the way back, stopped at a cafe after the apology for a milkshake."

不必太清楚我們會掉落在那兒。
And they walked into this cafe quietly, tentatively, gingerly,

在中國他們現在談著「中國夢」，
a little anxious.

在美國的話我們都熟識「美國夢」這個詞兒，
I think you know what I'm talking about.

我認為對全世界來說是時候
But the day after the apology, what happened?

我們也能夠來思考我們所謂的
Everyone in that cafe, every one of the white folks,

「人類夢」，
stood up and applauded.

因為假使我們這麼做了，
Something had happened in the hearts of these people in Australia.

我們可能剛好改變了
The white folks, our Aboriginal brothers and sisters,

我們看待彼此的方式。
and we haven't solved all these problems together,

人類夢 [中語]，
but let me tell you, there was a new beginning

那是我給美國的挑戰，那是我給中國的挑戰，
because we had gone not just to the head,

那是我給我們所有人的挑戰。
we'd gone also to the heart.

不過我認為只要有意願、有想像力，
So where does that conclude in terms of the great question

我們就可以把實現
that we've been asked to address this evening,

由和平共榮所帶動的未來，
which is the future of U.S.-China relations?

而不會再次重蹈戰爭的悲劇，
The head says there's a way forward.

謝謝大家！
The head says there is a policy framework, there's a common narrative,

(掌聲)
there's a mechanism through regular summitry

克里斯‧安德森：「太感謝您了！」
to do these things and to make them better.

感覺就像你在橋介上也扮演著一個角色，
But the heart must also find a way to reimagine the possibilities

你找了一個獨特的位置講給雙邊聽。
of the America-China relationship,

陸克文：我們澳洲人擅長於安排酒會，
and the possibilities of China's future engagement in the world.

所以你把人們聚在房間裡，我們提這樣那樣的建議，
Sometimes, folks, we just need to take a leap of faith

接著我們一起去喝酒。
not quite knowing where we might land.

不過，我們當中
In China, they now talk about the Chinese Dream.

與美中這兩大國結交的朋友，
In America, we're all familiar with the term "the American Dream."

你可以來做些什麼事的，
I think it's time, across the world,

你可以產生實質的貢獻，
that we're able to think also of something we might also call

所有在場的有心人
a dream for all humankind.

下次你碰上來自中國的人，
Because if we do that,

坐下來一起聊個天，
we might just change the way

看你可以從他們的出處和思維發現些什麼，
that we think about each other.

我也對看到這個TED 演說的所有中國人下這個挑戰，
[In Chinese]

也一起來這樣做。
That's my challenge to America. That's my challenge to China.

只要雙方希望改變世界，就可以真的做出一番成績，
That's my challenge to all of us,

我們這些處於中間的人物也可以做出一些小貢獻，
but I think where there's a will and where there is imagination

克里斯‧安德森：「我的朋友，再接再勵！感謝你！」
we can turn this into a future

陸克文：「謝謝！謝謝大家！」
driven by peace and prosperity

(鼓掌)
and not once again repeat
the tragedies of war.
I thank you.
(Applause)
Chris Anderson: Thanks so much for that. Thanks so much for that.
It feels like you yourself have a role to play in this bridging.
You, in a way, are uniquely placed to speak to both sides.
Kevin Rudd: Well, what we Australians do best is organize the drinks,
so you get them together in one room, and we suggest this and suggest that,
then we go and get the drinks.
But no, look, for all of us who are friends
of these two great countries, America and China,
you can do something.
You can make a practical contribution,
and for all you good folks here,
next time you meet someone from China,
sit down and have a conversation.
See what you can find out about where they come from and what they think,
and my challenge for all the Chinese folks
who are going to watch this TED Talk at some time
is do the same.
Two of us seeking to change the world can actually make a huge difference.
Those of us up the middle, we can make a small contribution.
CA: Kevin, all power to you, my friend. Thank you.
KR: Thank you. Thank you, folks.
(Applause)