we're going to talk about your life,

談談你的生活點滴，

and using some pictures that you shared with me.

跟大家分享你給我看的照片。

And I think we should start right here with this one.

我們就從這張開始。

Okay, now who is this?

這位是誰？

Martine Rothblatt: This is me with our oldest son Eli.

馬蒂娜·羅斯布拉特： 這是我跟我大兒子伊萊。

He was about age five.

他那時大約五歲。

This is taken in Nigeria

這張照片是在奈及利亞拍的

right after having taken the Washington, D.C. bar exam.

就在考完華盛頓特區律師考試。

CA: Okay. But this doesn't really look like a Martine.

克里斯：好的。 但這張照片看來不太像馬蒂娜。

MR: Right. That was myself as a male, the way I was brought up.

馬蒂娜：是的。這是我還是 男性的時候，我是以男兒身出生長大。

Before I transitioned from male to female and Martin to Martine.

在我從男性馬丁 變為女性馬蒂娜之前。

CA: You were brought up Martin Rothblatt.

克里斯：你是以馬丁·羅斯布拉特 的身份長大。

MR: Correct.

馬蒂娜：是的。

CA: And about a year after this picture, you married a beautiful woman.

克里斯：大約在拍了這張照片一年後， 你娶了一位漂亮的女性。

Was this love at first sight? What happened there?

是一見鍾情嗎？ 那是甚麼樣的情形呢？

MR: It was love at the first sight.

馬蒂娜：是一見鍾情沒錯。

I saw Bina at a discotheque in Los Angeles,

我是在洛杉磯一家 迪斯可舞廳遇見碧娜，

and we later began living together,

後來我們開始同居，

but the moment I saw her, I saw just an aura of energy around her.

當我看見她那一刻， 我就看見她散發著能量。

I asked her to dance.

我邀請她跳舞。

She said she saw an aura of energy around me.

她說她看見活力四射的我。

I was a single male parent. She was a single female parent.

我當時是單親爸爸， 她是單親媽媽。

We showed each other our kids' pictures,

我們看了彼此小孩的照片，

and we've been happily married for a third of a century now.

我們沈浸在幸福的婚姻 已達三分之一世紀。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

CA: And at the time, you were kind of this hotshot entrepreneur,

克里斯：當時你自己開創了公司，

working with satellites.

經營人造衛星相關的行業。

I think you had two successful companies,

你有兩個成功的企業，

and then you started addressing this problem

然後你開始解決這個問題

of how could you use satellites to revolutionize radio.

如何利用衛星 來革新廣播業。

Tell us about that.

請為我們說明一下。

MR: Right. I always loved space technology,

馬蒂娜： 我一直對太空科技很感興趣，

and satellites, to me, are sort of like the canoes that our ancestors

衛星對我來說，就像我們祖先

first pushed out into the water.

第一次推到水裡的獨木舟。

So it was exciting for me to be part of the navigation

我很興奮的是 能夠參與

of the oceans of the sky,

遨遊浩瀚星海，

and as I developed different types of satellite communication systems,

我發展各式衛星通訊系統，

the main thing I did was to launch bigger and more powerful satellites,

我做的事主要是 發射一個更大更強的衛星，

the consequence of which was that the receiving antennas

如此一來 接收天線

could be smaller and smaller,

可以非常的小，

and after going through direct television broadcasting,

有了電視直播之後，

I had the idea that if we could make a more powerful satellite,

我想如果能夠做一個更強大的衛星，

the receiving dish could be so small

接收盤可以做的很小

that it would just be a section of a parabolic dish,

它是拋物面天線反射器的一部分，

a flat little plate embedded into the roof of an automobile,

一個可以裝設在車頂的小片，

and it would be possible to have nationwide satellite radio,

可以做全國性衛星廣播，

and that's Sirius XM today.

也就是今天的「天狼星衛星廣播」。

CA: Wow. So who here has used Sirius?

克里斯： 哇。這裡有人用過天狼星嗎？

(Applause)

（掌聲）

MR: Thank you for your monthly subscriptions.

馬蒂娜：謝謝各位每月訂閱。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

CA: So that succeeded despite all predictions at the time.

克里斯：接下來 儘管當時有各種猜測。

It was a huge commercial success,

那是一個巨大的商業上的成功，

but soon after this, in the early 1990s,

在那不久之後， 1990 年代初，

there was this big transition in your life and you became Martine.

你的生活有很大的轉變 你成為馬蒂娜。

MR: Correct. CA: So tell me, how did that happen?

馬蒂娜：是的。 克里斯：告訴我們，怎會這樣？

MR: It happened in consultation with Bina and our four beautiful children,

馬蒂娜：我和碧娜以及 四個可愛的小孩商量過，

and I discussed with each of them

我各自和他們討論

that I felt my soul was always female, and as a woman,

我覺得在我的心靈裡，我是女性，

but I was afraid people would laugh at me if I expressed it,

可是我擔心如果我講出來 會被別人嘲笑，

so I always kept it bottled up

所以我把它藏在心裡

and just showed my male side.

只表現男性的一面。

And each of them had a different take on this.

每個人的反應不同。

Bina said, "I love your soul,

碧娜說：「我愛你的靈魂」，

and whether the outside is Martin and Martine,

不論外表是馬丁或是馬蒂娜，

it doesn't it matter to me, I love your soul."

我不會再乎， 我愛你的靈魂。

My son said, "If you become a woman, will you still be my father?"

我兒子說：你變成女人後， 仍然是我爸爸嗎？

And I said, "Yes, I'll always be your father,"

我說：是，我永遠是你爸爸，

and I'm still his father today.

我今天仍然是他的父親。

My youngest daughter did an absolutely brilliant five-year-old thing.

我小女兒做了一個五歲小孩做的 非常棒的事。

She told people, "I love my dad and she loves me."

她說：我愛我爸爸，她也愛我。

So she had no problem with a gender blending whatsoever.

她沒有性別混淆上的問題。

CA: And a couple years after this, you published this book:

克里斯：之後的一二年， 你出版這本書：

"The Apartheid of Sex."

「性別上的種族隔離」

What was your thesis in this book?

你對這本書有什麼論點呢？

MR: My thesis in this book is that there are seven billion people in the world,

馬蒂娜：我的論點是， 世界上有七十億人口，

and actually, seven billion unique ways to express one's gender.

就有七十億獨特的方展現性別。

And while people may have the genitals of a male or a female,

人們有男性和女性的生殖器官，

the genitals don't determine your gender

生殖器官不決定你的性別

or even really your sexual identity.

甚至你真正的性別特性。

That's just a matter of anatomy

這是一個解剖學上的問題

and reproductive tracts,

一個生殖問題,

and people could choose whatever gender they want

人們可以選擇他想要的性別

if they weren't forced by society into categories of either male or female

如果他們不受社會 分類為男性或女性

the way South Africa used to force people into categories of black or white.

就像南非過去將人 分為黑人或白人。

We know from anthropological science that race is fiction,

我們從人類學的角度來看 種族是虛構的,

even though racism is very, very real,

即使種族歧視確實存在,

and we now know from cultural studies

從文化研究的角度，

that separate male or female genders is a constructed fiction.

把人分為男性或女性 是想像編造出來的。

The reality is a gender fluidity

事實上性別是

that crosses the entire continuum from male to female.

從男性到女性跨越連續整體。

CA: You yourself don't always feel 100 percent female.

克里斯：你自己不總是 感覺自己百分百是女性。

MR: Correct. I would say in some ways

馬蒂娜：是的，在某些方面

I change my gender about as often as I change my hairstyle.

我變換性別就像改變髮型一樣頻繁。

CA: (Laughs) Okay, now, this is your gorgeous daughter, Jenesis.

克里斯：（笑），好吧， 這位是你美麗的女兒，吉納塞斯。

And I guess she was about this age when something pretty terrible happened.

我想她大概在那個時候 經歷一個可怕的事情。

MR: Yes, she was finding herself unable to walk up the stairs

馬蒂娜：是的，她發現自己 不能爬樓梯

in our house to her bedroom,

到自己的臥室。

and after several months of doctors,

看了幾個月的醫生之後，

she was diagnosed to have a rare, almost invariably fatal disease

她被診斷出患了一種罕見， 致命的疾病

called pulmonary arterial hypertension.

叫做肺動脈高壓。

CA: So how did you respond to that?

克里斯：你怎麼看待這件事？

MR: Well, we first tried to get her to the best doctors we could.

馬蒂娜：首先我們試著 幫她找最好的醫生。

We ended up at Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C.

我們最後在華盛頓特區找到 國家兒童醫療中心。

The head of pediatric cardiology

小兒心臟科主任

told us that he was going to refer her to get a lung transplant,

告訴我們他會幫她 取得肺做移植，

but not to hold out any hope,

但是沒有抱太大的希望，

because there are very few lungs available,

因為可以移植的肺很少，

especially for children.

特別是小孩子的。

He said that all people with this illness died,

他說得這種病的人都去世了，

and if any of you have seen the film "Lorenzo's Oil,"

如果你們有人看過 「羅倫佐的油」這部電影，

there's a scene when the protagonist

有一幕是主角

kind of rolls down the stairway crying and bemoaning the fate of his son,

從樓梯滚下來 為他兒子的命運哭泣和悲慟，

and that's exactly how we felt about Jenesis.

這種感受 就是我對吉納塞斯的感受一樣。

CA: But you didn't accept that as the limit of what you could do.

克里斯：但你不接受 這只是你能夠做的事。

You started trying to research and see if you could find a cure somehow.

你開始嘗試研究 是否能夠找到一個治療方法。

MR: Correct. She was in the intensive care ward for weeks at a time,

馬蒂娜：是的。 她在加護病房一住就好幾週，

and Bina and I would tag team to stay at the hospital

碧娜和我分工合作 一個在醫院

while the other watched the rest of the kids,

另一個就在家照顧其他小孩。

and when I was in the hospital and she was sleeping,

當我在醫院而且她睡著之後，

I went to the hospital library.

我到醫院的圖書館。

I read every article that I could find on pulmonary hypertension.

我讀了所有我能找到的 肺動脈高壓的文章。

I had not taken any biology, even in college,

我沒接觸過生物學， 甚至在大學也沒修過這個科目，

so I had to go from a biology textbook to a college-level textbook

所以我從入門生物學開始 到大學等級的課本

and then medical textbook and the journal articles, back and forth,

再到醫學教科書， 期刊的文章，反覆地研讀，

and eventually I knew enough to think that it might be possible

最後我有足夠的知識 認為這是有可能

that somebody could find a cure.

可以到到治療的方法。

So we started a nonprofit foundation.

我們成立一個非營利的基金會。

I wrote a description asking people to submit grants

我寫了一個說明書 讓人們提出申請

and we would pay for medical research.

我們付醫療研究經費。

I became an expert on the condition -- doctors said to me, Martine,

我成了這方面的專家，馬蒂娜， 醫生這麼對我說。

we really appreciate all the funding you've provided us,

我們非常感激你提供資金，

but we are not going to be able to find a cure in time

但是我們無法即時找到治療的方法

to save your daughter.

來挽救你女兒的生命。

However, there is a medicine

但是，有一種藥

that was developed at the Burroughs Wellcome Company

是由寶威藥廠所研發的

that could halt the progression of the disease,

可以讓控制病情惡化，

but Burroughs Wellcome has just been acquired by Glaxo Wellcome.

寶威藥廠剛被葛蘭素惠康公司收購。

They made a decision not to develop

他們決定不再開發

any medicines for rare and orphan diseases,

罕見疾病的藥。

and maybe you could use your expertise in satellite communications

或許你可以用你在衛星通訊的專長

to develop this cure for pulmonary hypertension.

來開發肺動脈高壓的治療方法。

CA: So how on earth did you get access to this drug?

克里斯：你究竟 是如何拿到這個藥呢？

MR: I went to Glaxo Wellcome

馬蒂娜：我去了葛蘭素惠康公司

and after three times being rejected and having the door slammed in my face

被他們摔門拒絶三次之後

because they weren't going to out-license the drug

因為他們不願意將藥品的許可證

to a satellite communications expert,

發給一個衛星通訊專家，

they weren't going to send the drug out to anybody at all,

他們不願意將藥給任何人使用，

and they thought I didn't have the expertise,

他們想我沒這方面的專業知識，

finally I was able to persuade a small team of people to work with me

最後我說服一個小團隊和我合作

and develop enough credibility.

建立相當的可信度。

I wore down their resistance,

我減少他們抗拒的心理，

and they had no hope this drug would even work, by the way,

他們對這個藥不抱任何希望，

and they tried to tell me, "You're just wasting your time.

他們試圖告訴我， 「你是在浪費時間。

We're sorry about your daughter."

我們為你的女兒感到遺憾。」

But finally, for 25,000 dollars

最後，以二萬五千美元的價格

and agreement to pay 10 percent of any revenues we might ever get,

以及支付我們營收百分之十

they agreed to give me worldwide rights to this drug.

他們同意把這藥的全球使用權給我。

CA: And so you put this drug on the market in a really brilliant way,

克里斯：你聰明地把藥推到市場，

by basically charging what it would take to make the economics work.

只收取能維持運作的成本價。

MR: Oh yes, Chris, but this really wasn't a drug that I ended up --

馬蒂娜：是的，克里斯 但這不是一種成藥，

after I wrote the check for 25,000,

當我簽下二萬五千美金的支票後，

and I said, "Okay, where's the medicine for Jenesis?"

我問說：「吉納塞斯的藥在那裡？」

they said, "Oh, Martine, there's no medicine for Jenesis.

他們說：「還沒有藥可治療吉納塞斯。

This is just something we tried in rats."

這藥只是在老鼠身上測試過。」

And they gave me, like, a little plastic Ziploc bag

他們給我像這樣一個小的密封袋

of a small amount of powder.

裡面裝有一些粉末。

They said, "Don't give it to any human,"

他們說：「不要給人吃這藥，」

and they gave me a piece of paper which said it was a patent,

他們給我一張紙， 說這是一個專利，

and from that, we had to figure out a way to make this medicine.

從那時候開始，我們必須自己 找出方法去製作這個藥。

A hundred chemists in the U.S. at the top universities

美國上百位頂尖大學的化學家

all swore that little patent could never be turned into a medicine.

都認為這個小小專利 是無法變成成藥。

If it was turned into a medicine, it could never be delivered

就算可以作成藥，也不能販售

because it had a half-life of only 45 minutes.

因為這藥只有 45 分鐘的壽命。

CA: And yet, a year or two later, you were there with a medicine

克里斯：即使如此，一兩年後， 你把它做成藥

that worked for Jenesis.

可以治療吉娜塞斯。

MR: Chris, the astonishing thing is that this absolutely worthless

馬蒂娜：克里斯，令人意想不到的是 這毫無價值

piece of powder

粉末

that had the sparkle of a promise of hope for Jenesis

給予治療吉娜塞斯一線希望之光

is not only keeping Jenesis and other people alive today,

不但救了吉娜塞斯和其他人的生命，

but produces almost a billion and a half dollars a year in revenue.

也創造了每年 將近十五億美金的營收。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

CA: So here you go.

克里斯：真是太棒了。

So you took this company public, right?

你將這個公司上市，是嗎？

And made an absolute fortune.

還賺了大錢。

And how much have you paid Glaxo, by the way, after that 25,000?

在付了二萬五千美金之後， 你付了多少錢給葛蘭素？

MR: Yeah, well, every year we pay them 10 percent of 1.5 billion,

馬蒂娜：每一年 我們付十五億的百分之十，

150 million dollars, last year 100 million dollars.

也就是一億五千萬， 去年是付一億元。

It's the best return on investment they ever received. (Laughter)

這是他們最好的投資報酬（笑）

CA: And the best news of all, I guess,

克里斯：我猜最好的消息

is this.

是這個。

MR: Yes. Jenesis is an absolutely brilliant young lady.

馬蒂娜：是的。吉娜塞斯是個 才華橫溢的女孩。

She's alive, healthy today at 30.

她健康地活下來，今年 30 歲。

You see me, Bina and Jenesis there.

這是我，碧娜和吉納塞斯。

The most amazing thing about Jenesis

吉納塞斯最了不起的是：

is that while she could do anything with her life,

她可以自己做任何事情，

and believe me, if you grew up your whole life with people

相信我，如果在你成長的過程中

in your face saying that you've got a fatal disease,

人們對你說你得了一種致命疾病，

I would probably run to Tahiti and just not want to run into anybody again.

我可能會跑大溪地， 不想再遇到這些人。

But instead she chooses to work in United Therapeutics.

但她卻選擇在聯合治療公司工作。

She says she wants to do all she can to help other people

她說她要儘其所能幫助其他

with orphan diseases get medicines,

患有罕見疾病的人取得藥物，

and today, she's our project leader for all telepresence activities,

如今，她是 我們遠程出席活動專案的負責人，

where she helps digitally unite the entire company to work together

協助整個公司進行數位聯合整合工作

to find cures for pulmonary hypertension.

以取得治療肺高壓的方法。

CA: But not everyone who has this disease has been so fortunate.

克里斯：但並不是 所有患有這種疾病的人都如此幸運。

There are still many people dying, and you are tackling that too. How?

有許多人死於這種病，你也著手 處理這個問題，你是如何辦到的？

MR: Exactly, Chris. There's some 3,000 people a year in the United States alone,

馬蒂娜：的確是，克里斯。 美國每年大約有三千人，

perhaps 10 times that number worldwide,

全世界的人數大約有 10 倍之多，

who continue to die of this illness

死於這種疾病

because the medicines slow down the progression

因為這個藥減緩病情

but they don't halt it.

但無法治療此病。

The only cure for pulmonary hypertension, pulmonary fibrosis,

唯一可以治療肺高壓、肺纖維化、

cystic fibrosis, emphysema,

囊腫性纖維化、肺氣腫、

COPD, what Leonard Nimoy just died of,

慢性阻塞性肺病， 李納德·尼摩剛死於這種病，

is a lung transplant,

只有肺部移植一途，

but sadly, there are only enough available lungs for 2,000 people

但遺憾的是， 美國每年只可提供給二千個人

in the U.S. a year to get a lung transplant,

進行肺部移植。

whereas nearly a half million people a year

每年有將近五十萬人

die of end-stage lung failure.

死於末期肺衰竭。

CA: So how can you address that?

克里斯：你如何處理這個問題？

MR: So I conceptualize the possibility

馬蒂娜：我將可能性概念化

that just like we keep cars and planes