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Professor Robert Shiller: I wanted to talk
today about investment banking, which is a subject of some
interest around here. First, I thought I
would--there's been so much news;
I want to just briefly comment about what's going on in the
world today with our financial crisis.
Notably, I think that this is the--it could be the biggest
financial crisis since The Great Depression and as evidence of
that, we're seeing a lot of talk
about what changes should be made.
I think it reminds me of the very basic fact that we live in
a financial world that was created in the wake of The Great
Depression. So many of our financial
institutions were created in the 1930s because that was a time
when everything was being shaken up and it was a time when people
were willing to consider something really different.
If you just look back where various of our
institutions--when they were created--it's most likely to be
in the 1930s. We are not yet at such a
crossroads. The financial situation is not
as bad as it was in the 1930s, but it's getting bad and as a
result we're starting to see proposals for big change.
Notably, on Monday, the Treasury Department,
under Secretary Henry Paulson, announced a proposal for
fundamental change in our financial markets.
This proposal, if implemented,
might be the biggest change since The Great Depression.
However, the news is calling it dead on arrival;
it's unlikely that the Paulson proposal will be implemented
partly because it's being proposed by a Republican
administration--well, not just Republican,
just an administration that's coming to an end and we're
having an election. This Paulson proposal probably
has very little chance of being implemented as is,
but it's put in to change the discussion and it's going to be
talked about a lot and I suppose it will influence what happens.
The interesting thing is that the next President of the United
States will likely have a mandate for big changes.
Maybe it's just as well that Fabozzi, et al.
are slow to do a second edition of their book because if they
got it out this year it would be a bad year to get it out because
everything is changing. I studied the Paulson proposal
carefully, since I'm writing a New York Times column about it,
which will appear Sunday. Reading the various
commentaries about the proposal, I had the impression that not
many of them are very--thinking very deeply about it.
They typically--they like to talk about the politics of it
and this thing, that it's dead on arrival or
it's--someone said it's an amateurish proposal.
All the groups that stand to win or lose from it are all
figuring out what it does to them and they're taking the
positions out of self-interest. So, I wanted to write something
that was more perspicacious, if I could manage that.
The interesting thing is, actually everyone calls it the
Paulson proposal, but it was apparently mostly
written by a young man who is in his early thirties.
You may not consider that young, but I think that is
young. He could have taken this course
from me ten years–actually,
he didn't go to Yale. I looked it up;
he went to American University, both undergraduate and--his
name is David Nason--undergraduate and then he
got a law degree at American University.
Then he just went to work for the government.
As far as I know, he doesn't publish;
he's not in the newspapers, but he's gotten the ear of the
Treasury Secretary. They spent many weekends
together figuring out what should be done about the system
and they wrote up a proposal. I like many aspects of it;
actually, it's an interesting proposal.
It's not so much what's in the proposal as it is that this is
the time for reconsideration. One interesting thing that they
proposed is that we should have what they call "objectives based
regulation."
We have--this is David Nason and Henry Paulson,
although it's not signed by them, it's signed by The
Treasury. So, The Treasury–it's
called a blueprint, a blueprint for reform of our
financial regulation.
It's built around what they call "objectives based
regulation." That means that the different
regulators should each have their own objective,
so they have a three-part proposal.
The market stability regulator, which would make sure that the
markets don't freeze up on us--we don't have a systemic
crisis. There would be a prudential
financial regulator and then, three, there would be a
business conduct regulator, so that's the main part of the
proposal. What they're doing is
emphasizing the different objectives of regulators.
The market stability is going to be the Fed,
but it's not just banking. They want it to be--the Fed's
role would be broadened so that it's not just a banking
regulator, it's the whole financial system.
It's supposed to be maintaining the stability of the system.
Then the prudential financial regulator is supposed to
regulate--it's supposed to aim at protecting the U.S.
interest in various institutions that are guaranteed
by the government, such as banks that are
federally-insured or enterprises that have government guarantees
or apparent government guarantees,
like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then the business conduct
regulator is supposed to regulate--what I saw is it would
be aimed at--consumer protection;
that it would make sure that businesses are protecting
individuals. I find this interesting because
it calls to mind some of the problems we had with the
subprime crisis. One very important problem was,
in the U.S. we have regulation divided up
in crazy archaic ways. Different agencies were formed
at different times and they have specific missions.
For example, we have the Office of the
Comptroller of the Currency. The OCC was founded in 1863 to
supervise national banks but it only supervises national banks.
Well, why not state chartered banks or why not credit unions
or other things? Well, it's just an accident of
history. So, what these people are
proposing is that we merge various agencies so that--define
new agencies of the government that are separated by these
different objectives; so, an objective defines an
agency--a regulatory agency.
What they want to do is merge the OCC and the OTS merger;
that's one of the proposals. I wonder why they don't carry
it further, but that's the thing they emphasized.
The OCC is Office of the Comptroller of the
Currency--regulates national banks.
The OTS is the Office of Thrift Supervision;
it regulates savings banks. So, we put the two
together--that sounds sensible, I guess.
Why are they separate? Various other things that they
talked about had that form. They want to merge the
Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity
Futures Trading Commission. The Securities and Exchange
Commission is the principal government regulator for
securities. They make sure that everything
is on the level and working right.
They help prevent fraud, misrepresentation,
manipulation of information in stocks and bonds.
The CFTC is the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and
it regulates our futures markets.
There has been, over the years,
a lot of turf battles between the SEC and the CFTC because
it's sometimes unclear whether something is a security or a
futures. For example,
when they started trading stock index futures,
both these agencies thought it was in their turf because it
involved both stock indexes and futures.
Anyway, Paulson is proposing merging these.
That makes sense and it seems like getting rid of some of this
division of regulatory agencies is very beneficial.
The division is what hampered regulators from dealing with the
financial subprime crisis. People knew that a lot of bad
loans were being made or loans were being made to people who
shouldn't be getting them. Low-income people were being
given adjustable rate mortgages with very low starter rates,
called "teaser rates," that would be raised in the future.
They were given them with--in such a way that after the rates
were raised, they likely couldn't afford to pay the
mortgage anymore or they'd be under great stress in trying to
do so. So, a family that bought a
house--a low-income family buys a house they can barely afford
it, then the rates go up on them.
The parents would have to take out second jobs to try
to--they're just going to go bankrupt when that happens.
It was, in some cases, unethical and it was plainly a
problem and yet the regulatory agencies in the U.S.
weren't stopping it. Another reason why the
regulatory agencies weren't stopping these problems was
because they often saw their mission in different terms.
When I gave a talk at the OCC in 2005, I was asking them
about, why aren't you policing these mortgages?
Their first answer was, well you have to remember we
were set up in Abe Lincoln's day to manage the national
banks--that's our mission. I may be overstating their
answer, but I got that flavor from them.
You want us to go out and protect consumers,
well of course that's a nice mission, but that's not our
mandate.
I think that what Paulson and Nason want to do is to create a
separate business conduct agency that is aimed at consumer
protection. So, it would be working
parallel with these other agencies to--but their job would
be to represent the consumer and that sounds like a good idea to
me. The thing I stressed in my
column was the market stability regulator, which is the Fed.
What they want to do is expand the actions of the Fed,
so that they're not--you can describe the Federal Reserve or
any central bank, traditionally,
as a banker's bank. Remember, I told you the story
of how the first--the Bank of England was the first central
bank and it made banks keep deposits at the Bank of England.
In other words, the banks were like customers
of the Bank of England; they had to keep deposits there
and the Bank of England watched them to make sure that they were
behaving responsibly and had authority over them because it
had market power. Well, the Fed is like that now,
but what Paulson and Nason wanted to do is make it more
than a banker's bank. They want it to be a bank for
the whole financial system. That's what's already happening.
In fact, it's just happening rapidly as we speak.
I mean, in this last month, things have changed.
The Fed has never given loans to anyone other then a
depository institution that is a bank until last month,
except they did so in the Depression.
There was this long gap in the 1930s;
the Fed was making loans to private companies that were not
banks and then they stopped doing that, until last month.
They created the--I mentioned it last time,
the Term Securities Lending Facility and the Primary Dealers
Credit Facility, which are lending outside the
banking system. What Paulson wants to do is
make that official that the Fed is no longer just a central
bank; it's a market stability
regulator. This is going to be very
controversial, but I think it's a good thing
to raise. In my opinion,
this is the trend anyway and I think we're going that way.
The problem is that in a modern financial economy,
we have so much instability, which is already built into the
system, that we rely on something like a central bank to
do things that help stabilize markets.
I think that we're probably going that way anyway and I
think that in the next presidential administration
we'll see an expansion of the role of the Fed.
I wish the Fed had behaved better in the recent crisis in
the sense--they didn't seem to recognize the bubbles that we
had in the stock market in the '90s and the housing in the
2000s. If they are our market
stability regulator, you'd hope that they could do a
better job. But, they're what we have and I
think that we should probably give them the authority to do
that job and I think that's what we need to do.
I was generally positive about their Treasury proposal.
Another thing that they want to do, which has been talked about
for some time. Yes?
Student: [Inaudible] Professor Robert
Shiller: Yeah. He asked, why do the news media
think that the crisis is already over?
Secondly, why do they think we can prevent--that's
paraphrasing. I don't know if the news media
are concluding anything, but you do see--we have
seen---over recent years, we've seen a lot of suggestions
that the turning point is just around the corner and the news
media report that. I think there's a bias towards
optimism among business economists or among business
people in general. It's not considered good form
to say, I think we're about to have a crisis of confidence and
the whole house of cards is going to collapse.
It's also not--it's generally not in a business person's
interest to suggest that, so we're all instinctively
trying to promote each other's confidence and that's what
business people do. They carry it a little further
than that. I was asked to be on Kudlow and
Cramer--Kudlow and Company show--I guess it was two nights
ago. I turned them down,
but they wanted to put me on opposite the CEO of Coldwell
Banker, who is claiming that the crisis is just about to end.
I did a little research, thinking I still might go on
the show. I looked up CEO of Coldwell
Banker, but I found that there was another CEO--this is a real
estate broker's firm. There was another CEO a year
ago who was on TV--just exactly a year ago--saying,
I think this is the best time ever--the best time in at least
ten years to buy a house. He said, the inventory is high;
the market is bottoming out and so on.
He was spectacularly wrong, but I notice he's also no
longer CEO; so, these things happen.
There is a general bias. On the other hand,
I have to respect these people that usually financial crises
end okay. There are repeated scares and
usually it's all right. We had a big scare in 1998;
it started with the Asian financial crisis and then it
spread to Russia and there was this terrible collapse in Russia
in 1998, when the government couldn't
pay its debts. Then that spread to the U.S.
and people were very fearful, but the Fed,
under Alan Greenspan, was very quick to respond and
the whole thing didn't turn out to be anything so bad.
The Fed again did like what it's doing now;
it rescued this company called Long Term Capital Management.
Your question about whether we can prevent this kind of thing
in the future is a deep question and I think that the problem is
that our financial markets are inherently somewhat unstable.
When we start thinking up really important new ways of
doing financial business they start to grow and they get huge.
They get bigger and bigger before you know it and it's just
amazing how things can suddenly grow and then nobody understands
them; so there's a vulnerability.
I was just--got the latest number--do you know how much
credit default swaps there are outstanding?
According to the Bank for International Settlements,
there are now fifty-two trillion dollars worth of credit
default swaps outstanding; fifty-two trillion dollars with
the GDP of the United States is fourteen trillion.
How can there be fifty-two trillion dollars of--these
things only came in in the last ten years or so.
I called an economist at the BIS and said,
can you please explain it to me?
Where is this fifty-two trillion coming from?
I got a note from him and I'm still trying to figure it all
out. That's what happens;
the system performs very well and then it becomes vulnerable.
Nobody understands all of it, so that's the problem.
The other side of it, though, is there was a recent
study that looked at financial crises and compared countries
that have had financial crises with countries that haven't.
The conclusion was that countries that have experienced
financial crises are generally more successful,
on average, over the long haul, than countries that haven't.
In that sense, a financial crisis is a sign
just that you're moving with the times and you're making a lot of
money. Then things suddenly blow up on
you, but you'll recover and you'll figure something out and
then you'll move from there. I don't know that Paulson's
proposal--I kind of like them, but I think that they're not
enough; that's why I'm writing a book
about this. I think there's a lot more to
be done. Even if you did everything that
I would do, we would still have a vulnerability to financial
crises. Part of the reason why I'm
endorsing this market stability regulator is that I think that
there's no way that we can just guarantee--there's no way we can
set up a system that is both very effective in allocating
resources and that is also very stable.
Just like when we went to the moon--when we sent people up
into space--one of those space shuttles blew up.
Well, that's what happens, but most of them made it all
right. So, that's the way it is in
finance as well. Anyway, I'm here to talk today
about investment banking, which of course is relevant
to--this is all part of this general thing.
Let me--I said earlier that investment banking seems to be a
great interest of students at Yale;
that's because they get some really great jobs there.
It's a--investment banking is a very important economic
institution and it's fundamental--what they do is
fundamental to what happens in our economy.
So, as a result, people who work for them have a
chance for a great economic success.
I'm not saying you want a job at an investment bank because
it's also demanding and difficult.
I've talked to some of our students who have taken jobs at
investment banks and sometimes I think they're probably too
demanding. As a young person,
you should be enjoying your youth and not getting dragged in
to some huge investment bank. There are some terrible
stories--young people who took--who left college five,
ten years ago and they got a job at Bear Stearns and Bear
Stearns demand--I'm just making this story up,
but it must be something like this for somebody--demanded
eighty-hour, hundred-hour week devotion to the job,
but they kept paying in Bear Stearns stock.
The student was making millions every year.
Meanwhile, his youth was going away and now this imaginary
student is now thirty-three years old, never had time to
marry or start a normal life. Then, the whole thing blows up
and all the Bear Stearns stock is worth just about nothing;
so, that's the kind of mistake you don't want to make.
I find the industry very interesting.
You have to form some kind of balance in your life and not let
anyone demand a hundred hours a week of your time.
If they do, you should sell the stock they give as soon as you
can and diversify. I also like investment banking
because I created one. We have--my colleagues and I
founded an investment bank called Macro Markets and I'm not
actually running it, I'm co-found--it's named after
a book I wrote called Marco Markets.
We're not a very big, important bank yet,
but it makes me interested in the whole field.
We have only hired one Yale student so far,
we're too tiny to--so we're not hiring, in case you wonder.
It was a student in this class that we hired,
but again, that's all history.
Anyway, what is investment banking, which is the subject of
this? Investment banking means the
underwriting of securities.
That is, arranging for the issuance by corporations of
stocks and bonds. The term bank is misleading
because we often use it. A depository institution is an
institution that accepts deposits and makes loans or
invests the money from the deposits.
Do you know what I mean by a deposit?
If you go to a savings bank, or a savings and loan,
or a commercial bank and you say, I want to open up a
checking account--that's a deposit;
or, I want to open up a saving account--that's a deposit.
The thing about a deposit is you deposit your money as an
individual and there are millions of people that all
deposit in a depository institution.
Then, later on, whenever you want,
you can take your money out. Meanwhile, they invest the
deposits some way or another at a higher interest rate than they
pay on the deposits and they make the difference and that's
how they make a profit. I often use the word bank to
refer--and so does everyone--to a depository institution.
If you look at what the law says, they tend to use the word
depository institution. An investment bank,
if it's doing a pure investment banking business is not a
depository institution. If you go into an investment
bank and say, I want to open up a deposit,
they'll say, you should go next door to the
credit union or something--we don't do that.
So, the word bank is somewhat misleading.
On the other hand, historically,
most institutions do both. If you go around the world,
most banks--most depository institutions--are also involved
in investment banking. Let me just write over
here--investment banking does underwriting of securities.
What does that mean? That means they arrange for the
issuance by other institutions of securities.
For example, if Ford Motor Company wants to
issue corporate bonds or they want to issue new shares,
they would go to an investment bank and the investment bank
would say, okay we can underwrite for you,
but we'll do it for you. A pure investment bank is not a
depository institution and it's also--a pure investment bank is
not a broker-dealer either. They're not trading in
securities, although they would deal in securities as a part of
the underwriting process. But, they're not--you wouldn't
go to a pure investment bank either and say,
I want to buy a hundred shares of Ford Motor Company,
where is your stockbroker? They wouldn't be dealing with
that. They wouldn't--they deal--their
customers are companies and they wouldn't do that either.
But in many cases firms do a mixture of different activities,
one of which is investment banking.
There's a peculiar story that refers particularly to
America--the United States--and that is the Glass-Steagall Act
of 1933. Again, you see,
everything happened in the '30s.
The stock market crash in 1929 caused tremendous chaos in the
financial markets. Carter Glass was a Senator from
Virginia and he and, I think it's Henry,
Steagall put together a bill which passed Congress and was
signed by President Roosevelt that said that we want to make a
law saying that investment banks cannot be combined with
commercial banks or insurance. Investment banking had to be a
separate firm. This is what they said in 1933.
You could not be both a depository institution and an
investment bank. So, they said,
after this Act every bank has to choose one or the other.
Do you want to be an investment bank or a commercial bank?
For example, then JP Morgan in the United
States was founded by a man named James Pierpont Morgan and
it was one of the biggest banks in the U.S.
In 1933, it was told, you got to make a choice;
are you an investment bank or a commercial bank?
JP Morgan made a choice and said, well we'll go to be a
commercial bank, so they stopped their
investment banking business in 1933.
They've since gotten back into it, but that's--but for a long
time they became a commercial bank.
What happened? They had a lot of people at JP
Morgan who were doing investment banking and they were upset
because JP Morgan was shutting them down.
There was a Mr. Stanley--I forget his first
name now--who was--I mention him because he was a Yale graduate.
He got the guys together from JP Morgan who did investment
banking and JP Morgan was dead already,
but his son, the young Morgan,
and he created Morgan Stanley. I have the suspicion that Mr.
Stanley put the son of JP Morgan on just for the prestige
of the name--it sounds a lot better, Morgan Stanley.
This became an investment bank and now JP Morgan and Morgan
Stanley, over seventy-five years later, are competitors.
That is the important history of Glass-Steagall.
The problem is that, as the years went on,
in the U.S. we had a division between
investment banking and commercial banking,
but in Europe and other places in the world,
banks were under no such restriction.
So, there was a lot of complaints that our laws in the
U.S. were handicapping the U.S.
banks. Finally, Glass-Steagall was
repealed and it didn't happen until 1999;
so we have the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999,
which repealed Glass-Steagall. That led then to a whole wave
of mergers of investment banks. JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley
could presumably have merged but they didn't;
they've become too much of competitors and they just
developed their own--they just internally adopted more broad
definition of their business. There are lots of mergers that
we can talk about that came either--sometimes they occurred
just before 1999.
For example, Travelers--The new
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act also allowed insurance companies to
merge with commercial banks. So, Traveler's Insurance and
Citigroup merged in 1998. I know that's before the bill,
but that was as the bill was just about to happen.
Then JP Morgan and Chase merged in 2000;
and then UBS and Paine Webber merged in 2000;
and Credit Suisse, a Swiss bank,
and Donaldson, Lufkin, &
Jenrette--Donaldson was the Dean of our business school here
at SOM--that merger occurred in 2000.
Those are some examples. So, now we're seeing a movement
back toward--so that a bank has an investment banking business
within it, but it's not just an investment bank.
It's sometimes hard to define what something is.
There's been a lot of news just in the last year or even more
recently, like yesterday or this morning's paper about investment
banks because under the current financial crisis they are
buckling; a lot of them are in trouble
and that's why it's big news. I'll give you some examples.
I mentioned Bear Stearns;
Bear Stearns was founded in 1923 by Joseph Bear and Robert
Stearns. I tried to find something out
about them and they don't seem to be very well-known.
They're not on the Web--there's no Bear Stearns--there's no
Joseph Bear admirer club on the Web, but whatever they set up
was really big for a while. From 1923 to 2008,
when it went bust--so it lasted eighty-five years--so,
it has investment banking business,
but it also has private equity business and private banking.
It started to get in trouble during the current--in fact,
it was maybe the first U.S. investment bank to get in
trouble in the current financial crisis because it was in June
2007--they had some of their funds collapse.
They had funds that were investing in subprime mortgages
and this is a sign there's something wrong.
The names of these funds were the Bear Stearns High-Grade
Structured Credit Fund. Notice they say "high-grade."
You know what high-grade is supposed to mean in finance?
That it's not going to fail on you.
They had another one called the Bear Stearns High-Grade
Structured Credit Enhanced Leveraged Fund.
Now, that sounds a little bit like a contradiction.
You should, as a consumer of financial products,
wonder when they put both high-grade and leveraged in the
same name. High-grade is supposed to mean
safe, but leveraged sounds like the opposite,
doesn't it? If you--leverage means that
they borrowed a lot of money to buy risky subprime securities.
So, if they borrowed 80% of the money, the securities only have
to lose 20% of the value for you to be wiped out;
so that shouldn't be high-grade if it's so leveraged.
Anyway, these two funds were wiped out and Bear Stearns had
to give--deal out $3.2 billion dollars;
that was last summer, but the news kept getting worse
and worse. Apparently, Bear had invested a
lot in its securities that were unstable and so it finally
became where rumors started developing that Bear was--it was
really rumors that killed Bear. The rumors started going that
Bear is in trouble, so you're going to be--they're
going to be in bankrupt before long.
This is exactly the market stability problem that Paulson
is talking about. Once the rumors get started,
everybody is saying, don't do anything with Bear;
don't lend them any money; just stay away from them.
Even young people who are getting jobs--and they were
right to think this--don't even take a job with them because
you're going to be on the street again shortly.
It's that kind of rumor that killed Bear Stearns.
They couldn't pay their bills and they were finding it
difficult to sell their assets to come up with money,
so the Fed decided to bail them out.
This was a huge Fed bailout. Well, they didn't want--the Fed
didn't want to bail out the stockholders;
they didn't want to just give money to people who had invested
because firms are supposed to be allowed to fail.
So, what the Fed did is it gave a line of credit to JP Morgan--a
non-recourse line of credit--to buy Bear Stearns.
What it amounted to was that the Fed would take troubled
securities that Bear Stearns couldn't sell.
It would take that as collateral for a twenty-nine
billion dollar loan to JP Morgan under the condition that JP
Morgan would buy Bear Stearns. It was supposed to be at two
dollars a share, so that left the total value of
Bear Stearns at a little over two hundred million,
which is pretty tiny compared to what they were worth,
which was in the tens of billions a short while ago.
The Fed didn't want a disorderly collapse.
So, it was a twenty-nine billion dollar loan to JP
Morgan; this is highly controversial
these days because the Fed isn't normally doing this sort of
thing. Why would it be lending money
to JP Morgan to buy another company?
You say, how is that benefiting the average person in this
country? It does benefit them because if
they didn't do this, Bear Stearns would have dumped
its assets on the market. It would go down in flames;
lots of its debts would become--lots of people who had
accounts with Bear Stearns would find that their accounts were
destroyed.
Then what would it do? It might lead to contagion to
other financial institutions. People would say,
well it happened to Bear--who's next?
There would be this huge pulling back.
So, the Fed decided to bail them out and that's what they
did. Now, it's not clear that it's
over, if you read this morning's paper.
Lehman Brothers is another investment bank that is rumored
to be in trouble, so it's got to do something
about these rumors because it can kill them--just the rumors.
No one will want to do anything with them;
it was in this morning's paper or yesterday's news that they
have arranged to raise capital on the markets.
It was not entirely clear--that means, they're getting people
who are willing to invest give them money--invest in the
company. It's a sign of confidence in
Lehman Brothers that someone would do that at this critical
time. Another story that came in
yesterday--UBS, I mentioned before,
was a Swiss bank but it's not Swiss;
it's international now. It started out as the Union
Bank of Switzerland--that's what it stands for--Union Bank of
Switzerland--which was the result of a merger between two
Swiss banks around 1900. Then it, as I mentioned,
merged with Paine Webber and it's become an international
corporation; so they just call themselves
UBS. In this morning's newspaper,
it said that UBS announced that it has lost--what was it?
Does someone remember what the numbers were?
Student: [Inaudible]
Professor Robert Shiller: They've lost
nineteen billion?
That's a huge loss--nineteen billion dollars is a substantial
part of their market cap, but they are also announcing
that they are arranging to raise capital as well.
The news that these firms, which are rumored to be in
trouble, are managing to raise capital buoyed markets yesterday
and we had a big upsurge in the stock market.
It was, well, yesterday was the first day of
the second quarter and the newspapers were reporting that
it was the biggest upsurge on the market on the first day of a
new quarter since 1938. I looked at that with some
curiosity because 1938 was not such a great year after all,
it was still in the Depression. I think the market didn't do
great after that then, so this doesn't predict much
one way or the other.
Anyway, this is where we are now, it's an interesting
situation. If you are thinking of taking a
job at one of these companies, you might consider looking at
their situation because some of these companies could follow the
way of Bear Stearns at this point.
We have the Fed aggressively lending and trying to prevent
another thing, but you know the Fed is not in
the business of making sure that your career is a success.
They're in the business of preventing a systemic failure;
so, while the Fed arranged for an orderly dissolution of Bear
Stearns, it didn't do a whole lot of good to Bear employees
who--we'll see what happens to all of them.
I don't know the whole story, but it's a tumultuous world out
there; it's not like you live in an
academic environment where Yale University has been in business
for over 300 years and it looks so stable here.
Well, this is a very stable business;
these other businesses are not so stable.
Anyway, I wanted to talk about the underwriting process and
what it's done. I think underwriting of
securities is--it's analogous--the investment
banking business is analogous to the business done by ordinary
commercial banks in the sense that it deals with a moral
hazard problem and an asymmetric information problem.
We were talking about what banks do--commercial banks.
Remember, I was telling the story that the big problem with
lending to companies is that it's hard to tell whether they
are deserving of the loan or not.
So, a commercial banker is someone who lives in a business
community, and keeps abreast of everything that's going on,
and plays golf with all the local business people,
and has a sense--hears the gossip--has a sense of who's
responsible, who will pay back a loan,
who's got a business that's really going,
who's got a business that's sick and on the way out;
that's what a bank does. Everyone else who wants to
invest doesn't know this, but they put their money in the
bank and then that's the idea. The moral hazard is the moral
hazard that the company, which receives a loan from the
bank, would take the money and run.
The asymmetric information problem is that you,
as an investor--if you were to make loans directly to a
company, you would be suffering at a
disadvantage because you know less than other people.
You don't play golf with these people and so you would end up
taking on the worst loans--loans that would fail.
The same thing applies to underwriting because--but they
do it in a different way. Instead of certifying--instead
of creating deposits at a bank, they underwrite securities and
they are not taking the money; they're just an intermediary
between you the public and the issuer of the security,
but it's much the same thing. It's the reputation of the bank
that makes it possible for firms to issue securities.
The underwriting process is very important to understand
because it's a process that allows issuers of securities to
take advantage of the reputation of the underwriters.
The issuer of the security may not be so well-known or not so
well-understood, so the--what happens is,
the underwriter--what's a good analogy?
I was going to say, it's like a dating service,
but I guess dating services don't do this,
right? They don't testify to the moral
character; they should.
Do they do that? Does anyone do that?
They probably can't, right? That's an even bigger moral
hazard problem. When you're looking for a
spouse, you have a huge moral hazard problem and there's
nobody there to help you as far as I know.
At least in the business world we have professionals;
they're matchmakers in a sense. They're trying to match up a
company that's issuing securities to buyers of the
securities and this is an important reason for a
difference between investment banking and other aspects of
finance. Investment bankers,
compared particularly to traders, investment bankers like
to cultivate an image of sober responsibility and good
citizenship because they thrive on their reputation.
So they--to be successful as an investment banker,
you have to be so impressive and such high character that
companies like Ford and GM will come to you to represent them in
the sale of their securities. As a result,
investment bankers tend to be well dressed;
they tend to be patrician in their appearances and manner.
In contrast, traders tend to have vulgar
accents; they shout on the phone;
they slam the phone down; they roll up their sleeves;
they dribble food on their shirt.
I may be putting them down too much.
I, personally, think that we have a strength
at Yale because of our patrician image in providing people to
work for this field. Typically, investment bankers
go to the symphony on Saturday night.
But beyond that, if you open up the program at
the symphony, you'll see their name under
platinum sponsor on the program. That's the kind of people that
go into investment banking and they do it because they have to
manage this underwriting process well.
What is the underwriting process?
Well, what happens is a company that is thinking of issue--let's
say you're any company, a big company--it doesn't
matter. People don't trust big
companies even if they've been around a hundred years.
So, if Ford Motor Company--it's been around since when?
Something like around 1900. But people sure don't trust it
anymore because it's had a history of trouble.
It's not a question just of morality or anything;
it's a question of, are you willing to buy their
securities. So, they would go to an
investment banker and say, we need money;
we'd like to raise it by, say, issuing shares in our
company. Then they would probably
contact a number of investment banks and try to make a deal.
Now, there are two kinds of deals;
there's a "bought deal" and a "best efforts."
The difference is, some investment bankers will
tell the company, we will--you want to issue
these shares, fine;
sell them to us; we'll take it;
we'll give you a price. Of course, the investment bank
doesn't want to hold these shares, but the investment bank
knows the public well enough to know which shares it can sell.
In a bought deal the investment bank is taking the risk that
they might not be able to sell the shares at a decent price;
they might lose on it. Also, there's a different kind
of offering, which may be the best you could get;
it's called a best efforts offering.
Here, the investment banker will not buy the deal,
but it will say that we will use our best efforts to place
this and if you have a minimum price,
we hope we can get above that; otherwise, the deal will fall
through. The underwriting process
is--takes the form of--it's actually very much regulated by
the Securities and Exchange Commission.
So, the process is formalized. In order to issue securities,
you--we're talking about public securities here--you have to
register them with the SEC. So, the SEC then becomes a
partner or an adversary in your effort to issue these
securities. The SEC, the Securities and
Exchange Commission--all this might be changed next year,
who knows, but this is the way it is right now.
The law says, there's a pre-filing period;
you have to file with the SEC to get your securities
effective. The idea--say Ford Motor
Company wants to issue new shares.
They go to the investment bank, then the investment bank
negotiates with the firm--with Ford--about what kind of
securities it wants to issue and what price is reasonable.
During this period, the SEC says there's no talk to
the public about the shares. During this period,
no talk publicly;
the SEC wants to manage the process so that everything is
done appropriately. At this point,
during the pre-filing period, the investment bank forms a
syndicate of other underwriters and they sign an agreement among
underwriters. Usually, one investment bank is
not big enough to handle a big issue and it wants to get help
of other investment banks, so they form a syndicate of
underwriters during the pre-filing period.
There's a lead underwriter, which Ford Motor Company
approached first, and the lead underwriter
promised to take on the issue, but the lead underwriter
doesn't want to do it itself. The reason it doesn't want to
do it just itself is that in order to sell and issue to a
broad public, you have to make use of a broad
network of contacts with the public and no one investment
bank has them all. So, they form a syndicate--a
group of investment banks that are all participating in the
issue of the security--and then they file and then there's
what's called a "cooling off period,"
when the security is in registration.
They file with the Securities and Exchange Commission a
prospectus for this--a preliminary prospectus.
This goes to the Securities and Exchange Commission for
approval; it's not really approval of the
issue, but it's registration of the issue.
The preliminary prospectus is called the "red herring."
The "red herring"--it's lost in history why they call it that;
there's different theories about it.
A herring, of course, is a type of fish and the best
explanation that I can get for this name for the preliminary
prospectus is that it was referring to an activity that
hunters used to do with dogs. I don't know if I should tell
you these stories, but I like to know why they
call it a red herring. If you have hunting dogs,
they're supposed to track down a fox by their sense of smell.
So, one pace you can put your dogs through is to try to
confuse them. They would take a red herring,
which is a very smelly kind of fish, and they would drag it
around over the trail of the fox;
it's very difficult for dogs to still smell the fox over that
smell. The word red herring became
known as a euphemism for something trying to distract and
confuse and so it was a joke. I think it was a joke on Wall
Street that the prospectus is really just there to try to
confuse you, so they called it the red herring.
The preliminary prospectus is now often printed with red
borders on it to indicate that it's the red herring and it's
only preliminary. Finally, the Fed evaluates the
prospectus and makes sure that it accords with all regulations.
It puts it up on its website at the SEC while it's in
registration. Again, during the "cooling off"
period, firms are allowed to circulate the preliminary
prospectus. Underwriters are allowed to
circulate the preliminary prospectus with potential
buyers, but they're not supposed to say
anything besides what's in the preliminary prospectus.
What they're concerned about--the SEC is concerned
about people overselling securities and they might point
out advantages of it and not the disadvantages.
The idea of a pro--what's in a prospectus?
A prospectus is a document that completely tells everything
about a security. The whole idea of the SEC is
that we're not letting anyone pull the wool over your eyes;
that's why it really shouldn't be called a "red herring."
It's not supposed to deceive you;
it's supposed to pour out everything about the security.
One thing that's in a prospectus--a preliminary or
final prospectus--is the company thinks of everything bad that
could ever happen. If you read prospectuses,
they'll say awful things. If you read them carefully,
they'll say this company could lose everything--we could be
sued; we could be going to jail;
we might have done all sorts--maybe I'm exaggerating,
but the lawyers put everything imaginable that could go wrong
with this investment in there. They do it--of course,
it's in kind of fine print, but it's all in there so that
it's disclosed. So later, if someone loses
money in the investment and wants to sue them,
then they'll say, well look it's in our
prospectus. The reason that the SEC doesn't
want them to talk about securities at this point,
except to give the prospectus, is so that they can't conceal
and hide these things. This is the SEC process;
the process says that the underwriters have to give out
the prospectus and that's all they can do;
they can't have a separate brochure.
They can't--your broker can't say, well we're thinking of
issuing a security; we've got this prospectus,
but I'm going to send you a brochure instead--that's easier.
The SEC says, no way, because that brochure
will be a sales job and it won't have all of this in there.
Anyway, then eventually the SEC approves it and when it's
approved then it's effective and then the underwriters can start
selling the security. At that point,
they actually say it's a best-efforts offering;
then they go around and they try to--they get buyers of the
security lined up. Now, you have to understand
that there's a problem issuing a new security.
Securities that are already out there and trading--everybody
knows about them. There's a market for them,
but if you're issuing a new security, especially if it's a
company that is issuing shares for the first time--an IPO is an
initial public offering. An IPO is the first time that a
company issues shares, so the company is not known to
the public and it's very hard to get IPOs started because the
company is just not known. It's very important that the
underwriters are able to get attention and get the market
going for the IPO. During the "cooling off"
period, firms also are allowed to place, according to the SEC,
something called a tombstone; that is an ad in the newspaper,
which will announce the security.
It's a very dignified ad because it has to meet with the
approval of the Securities and Exchange Commission,
but a tombstone will say, Ford Motor Company--one million
shares offered. Then it will list all of the
underwriting syndicate, so it will be a list of all the
investment banks that participated in the issue.
That's the basic process that underwriters go through to issue
securities. Now, part of the thing is--I
just want to close with--basically,
I think that investment banks are very similar to impresarios
in what they do. What I mean by an impresario is
someone who manages a singer or a musician in concerts,
but it's a little different. An underwriter is managing the
career of a security, just like somebody else would
be managing the career of a singer;
they're very concerned about their reputation and they're
very concerned about getting sold out performances all the
time. Now, one thing about IPOs is
that they are very hard--to get a new security for a new company
going--because nobody knows this company.
The price movements of an IPO tend to be very volatile and
it's because of the difficulty in getting IPOs going;
underwriters have peculiar practices in issuing them.
It tends to go like this: underwriters tend--and there's
been a lot of documentation of this--to under price IPOs.
That is, they sell them for less then they could get and
that means that IPOs tend to be oversubscribed.
This sounds strange--why would it work this way?
You can try this; call your broker,
if you have a broker--does anyone here have a broker?
Maybe somebody does. Think about this anyway--you
could call a broker and inquire and say, hey I hear about IPOs;
I'd like to get in on some. What do you think the broker
will say? Well, the broker will say,
okay let me see what I can do for you.
And he doesn't call you back. You wonder, well why does this
person not want my business? Well, the reason is that you
haven't been a good guy; you haven't been giving the
broker other business. And you hear stories about
IPO's that did spectacularly well--it jumped 30% on the first
day and you say, hey I want that.
But it becomes sort of a game that they're playing.
It's a little bit like trying to get tickets to some rare
concert. I mean, people will
sometimes--or there's someone coming to Toad's whose--I don't
go there, but if you know about someone
who is very famous coming to Toad's and you have trouble
getting tickets. Is that right?
Has anything like this happened here?
It happened somewhere anyway and so you might end up standing
in line for hours for the first time when the ticket office
opens. Then it sets up rumors going
that, wow, this is a difficult concert to get into.
People start trading the tickets afterwards or someone's
out there asking more money than it says on the ticket.
Well, you have to understand that that whole event was staged
by an impresario. So, there's someone who's
responsible for the reputation of this performer.
This guy says there's no way that our performer is going to
go in and perform to a half empty house;
we've got to pack them in; we want people lining up on the
streets because it gives a sense of excitement that this person
is a star. You know this, right?
These stars are managed and they're not just spectacularly
good singers; the impresario is critically
important in maintaining the career of a singer and the
impresario is very concerned about appearances.
So, you don't want to charge a really high price to get into
Toad's because, then it would only be wealthy
people from the suburbs who would be coming and it would
destroy the whole atmosphere of the place.
So, you've got to charge reasonably low-priced tickets
and then a lot of people will come flocking to you and then
that would create the excitement.
The underwriters do the same thing with IPOs,
so they underprice them typically and it creates this
huge excitement about, can I get in on this IPO?
That excitement generates more business and it also generates a
reputation for the underwriter. People see the tombstone and
they know that this IPO did extremely well;
it jumped a high amount in the first day and people think this
underwriter is really something. I want to get in on other
offerings of that underwriter. So, the reputation of the
underwriter grows; it's really a reputation
business and these people know something about investor
psychology and you might consider it some kind of market
manipulation. It's all perfectly legal
because the SEC allows this kind of thing but--anyway,
coming back to--the problem that we're having now is that
I'm emphasizing that investment bankers need a reputation.
Their whole business is a reputation business.
When something happens to Bear Stearns, it's critical for the
whole industry. Now, when it's happening
repeatedly to various other banks, it becomes a critical
turning point. The stock market went up a lot
yesterday because of the encouraging news that some of
these investment banks were able to raise more capital and it's
an ongoing saga, but it's all a saga that's
played out in terms of investment.
So, I find it difficult to predict what's going to happen
next. It's very hard to know.
Right now--as of yesterday, we had some encouraging news
but this is something that we'll just have to keep watching.
I think this will play out over years.
This thing is not going to be over tomorrow,
so we'll have more interesting things to talk about later this
semester and there will be things to watch--to follow up on
over the years. Okay, so we're going to talk
next period about investment management.