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  • I worked as a war reporter for 15 years

    我曾經當了十五年的戰地記者,

  • before I realized that I really had a problem.

    直到我意識到我有一個問題。

  • There was something really wrong with me.

    這個問題一直在困擾著我。

  • This was about a year before 9/11, and America wasn't at war yet.

    那距離 911 事件發生還有一年, 美國還沒有向阿富汗宣戰。

  • We weren't talking about PTSD.

    當時大家還沒有開始談論 「創傷後壓力症候群」

  • We were not yet talking about the effect of trauma and war

    大家還沒有討論戰爭和精神創傷

  • on the human psyche.

    對人類心理的影響。

  • I'd been in Afghanistan for a couple of months

    我曾經在阿富汗和 北方聯盟一起待過幾個月。

  • with the Northern Alliance as they were fighting the Taliban.

    當時他們正在和塔利班作戰。

  • And at that point the Taliban had an air force,

    當時塔利班他們有空軍,

  • they had fighter planes, they had tanks, they had artillery,

    他們有戰機,有坦克,有大炮,

  • and we really got hammered pretty badly a couple of times.

    而我們的確有幾次受到了重創。

  • We saw some very ugly things.

    我們看到了非常悲慘的事情。

  • But I didn't really think it affected me.

    但我不覺得它影響了我。

  • I didn't think much about it.

    我甚至不會回想起它。

  • I came home to New York, where I live.

    後來我回到我生活的紐約。

  • Then one day I went down into the subway,

    有一天我去到地鐵站,

  • and for the first time in my life,

    人生中第一次,

  • I knew real fear.

    我感受到了真正的恐懼。

  • I had a massive panic attack.

    嚴重的恐慌症突然發作。

  • I was way more scared than I had ever been in Afghanistan.

    這要比我在阿富汗經歷過的 更使我害怕。

  • Everything I was looking at seemed like it was going to kill me,

    我能看到的所有東西 都像將要殺了我一樣,

  • but I couldn't explain why.

    但我不能解釋這是為什麼。

  • The trains were going too fast.

    地鐵看上去開得太快了。

  • There were too many people.

    人群看上去實在是太多了。

  • The lights were too bright.

    燈光太亮。

  • Everything was too loud, everything was moving too quickly.

    所有的事情都太吵、 都動的太快了。

  • I backed up against a support column and just waited for it.

    我靠在一根柱子上 等待這陣恐慌過去。

  • When I couldn't take it any longer, I ran out of the subway station

    當我再也忍受不了的時候, 我跑出了地鐵站,

  • and walked wherever I was going.

    毫無目的地走在路上。

  • Later, I found out that what I had was short-term PTSD:

    後來我發現 我患上了短期的 PTSD:

  • post-traumatic stress disorder.

    也就是「創傷後壓力症候群」。

  • We evolved as animals, as primates, to survive periods of danger,

    我們從動物、人猿演化而來, 在危險情境中生存了下來,

  • and if your life has been in danger,

    如果你的生命處於危險的情境當中,

  • you want to react to unfamiliar noises.

    你會想對不熟悉的噪音作出反應。

  • You want to sleep lightly, wake up easily.

    你會淺眠,而且很容易驚醒。

  • You want to have nightmares and flashbacks

    你就會做噩夢並回憶起

  • of the thing that could kill you.

    那些差點把你殺掉的事情。

  • You want to be angry because it makes you predisposed to fight,

    你會變得很生氣,因為它會讓你 進入準備戰鬥的狀態,

  • or depressed, because it keeps you out of circulation a little bit.

    或者變得絕望,因為它會 讓你有點喘不過氣來,

  • Keeps you safe.

    你會想隨時保持自己的安全。

  • It's not very pleasant, but it's better than getting eaten.

    這並不令人愉快, 但總比死亡要好。

  • Most people recover from that pretty quickly.

    大部分的人很快就可以 從這精神障礙中康復。

  • It takes a few weeks, a few months.

    這個過程要幾週,或者幾個月。

  • I kept having panic attacks, but they eventually went away.

    我一直經歷著這種痛苦的打擊, 但我最後還是康復了。

  • I had no idea it was connected to the war that I'd seen.

    我從不知道他們和我 目睹過的戰爭有聯繫。

  • I just thought I was going crazy,

    我只覺得我快要瘋了。

  • and then I thought, well, now I'm not going crazy anymore.

    然後我只是覺得, 現在我不會再發瘋了。

  • About 20 percent of people, however,

    然而,大概有 20% 的人,

  • wind up with chronic, long-term PTSD.

    遭受著慢性的、 長期的創傷後壓力症。

  • They are not adapted to temporary danger.

    他們不是要去面對短期的危險,

  • They are maladapted for everyday life,

    而是不能適應日常的生活,

  • unless they get help.

    除非他們尋求幫助。

  • We know that the people who are vulnerable to long-term PTSD

    我們知道有些人比較容易得 長期的創傷後壓力症:

  • are people who were abused as children,

    這些人也許是童年時受過虐待,

  • who suffered trauma as children,

    也許是童年時遭受過精神創傷,

  • people who have low education levels,

    也許是沒有受過高等教育的人,

  • people who have psychiatric disorders in their family.

    也許是有精神病的家庭遺傳,

  • If you served in Vietnam

    假如你曾經在越南服役

  • and your brother is schizophrenic,

    而且你有一個患精神分裂症的兄弟,

  • you're way more likely to get long-term PTSD from Vietnam.

    那你在越南回國後,有更大的可能 會患上長期的創傷後壓力症。

  • So I started to study this as a journalist,

    所以作為一個記者, 我開始研究這個問題,

  • and I realized that there was something really strange going on.

    我意識到有一些奇怪的事情存在。

  • The numbers seemed to be going in the wrong direction.

    數據看上去正在往一個錯誤的方向變化。

  • Every war that we have fought as a country,

    每一次我們國家參與的戰爭,

  • starting with the Civil War,

    ——從獨立戰爭開始,

  • the intensity of the combat has gone down.

    戰爭的強度開始下降。

  • As a result, the casualty rates have gone down.

    所以,傷亡率也開始下降。

  • But disability rates have gone up.

    但是殘疾率卻開始上升。

  • They should be going in the same direction,

    它們本應該按同樣的方向變化,

  • but they're going in different directions.

    但是它們變化的方向卻相反。

  • The recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have produced, thank God,

    感謝上帝,最近在伊拉克和 阿富汗的戰爭僅造成

  • a casualty rate about one third of what it was in Vietnam.

    越南戰爭 1/3 的傷亡率。

  • But they've also created --

    但是它們也造成了,

  • they've also produced three times the disability rates.

    越戰殘疾率的三倍。

  • Around 10 percent of the US military is actively engaged in combat,

    將近有 10% 的美國軍人經歷過戰場,

  • 10 percent or under.

    ——將近 10% 或者 10% 以下。

  • They're shooting at people, killing people,

    他們在戰場上開火、殺人、

  • getting shot at, seeing their friends get killed.

    中彈、或者看著他們的戰友倒下。

  • It's incredibly traumatic.

    這真的是十分痛苦。

  • But it's only about 10 percent of our military.

    但這只是我們軍隊的 10%。

  • But about half of our military has filed

    然而從政府的檔案中, 我們看到有一半的軍人

  • for some kind of PTSD compensation from the government.

    正在領取創傷後 壓力症候群的救濟金。

  • And suicide doesn't even fit into this in a very logical way.

    從邏輯看來,自殺人數 根本不符合這個數據。

  • We've all heard the tragic statistic of 22 vets a day, on average,

    我們都聽過一個悲慘的統計數據,

  • in this country, killing themselves.

    這個國家平均一天, 有 22 位退伍軍人選擇自殺。

  • Most people don't realize

    多數人沒有意識到

  • that the majority of those suicides are veterans of the Vietnam War,

    這些自殺者的大多數 是從越南戰爭回國的軍人,

  • that generation,

    在那一個年代,

  • and their decision to take their own lives actually might not be related

    他們選擇結束生命的方式

  • to the war they fought 50 years earlier.

    也許和他們在五十年前 參與過的戰爭不太有關連性。

  • In fact, there's no statistical connection between combat and suicide.

    事實上,還沒有戰爭與自殺率 相關性的統計數據。

  • If you're in the military and you're in a lot of combat,

    假如你在軍隊中參與過很多場戰役,

  • you're no more likely to kill yourself than if you weren't.

    你更不會傾向於選擇自殺,

  • In fact, one study found

    事實上,一個研究表明

  • that if you deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan,

    假如你參與過伊拉克或者阿富汗戰爭,

  • you're actually slightly less likely to commit suicide later.

    其實你是更不可能 在以後選擇自殺的。

  • I studied anthropology in college.

    我在大學學習的是人類學。

  • I did my fieldwork on the Navajo reservation.

    我在納瓦霍族遺址做過實地調查,

  • I wrote a thesis on Navajo long-distance runners.

    寫過關於納瓦霍族長跑者的論文。

  • And recently, while I was researching PTSD,

    最近我在研究創傷後壓力症候群的時候,

  • I had this thought.

    我有了一個想法。

  • I thought back to the work I did when I was young,

    我想起我年輕時做過的研究,

  • and I thought, I bet the Navajo, the Apache, the Comanche --

    我在想納瓦霍人、 阿帕奇人、科曼奇人,

  • I mean, these are very warlike nations --

    ——這些好戰的民族——

  • I bet they weren't getting PTSD like we do.

    我猜他們不會像我們一樣 患上創傷後壓力症。

  • When their warriors came back from fighting the US military

    當他們的戰士從抵抗美國 軍隊的戰爭中回到家鄉

  • or fighting each other,

    或者從互相攻擊的戰爭中回來,

  • I bet they pretty much just slipped right back into tribal life.

    我猜他們肯定很容易就 重新融入部落生活。

  • And maybe what determines

    也許

  • the rate of long-term PTSD

    決定長期創傷後壓力症的因素

  • isn't what happened out there,

    不是在戰場上發生了什麼,

  • but the kind of society you come back to.

    而是你回到了什麼樣的社會。

  • And maybe if you come back to a close, cohesive, tribal society,

    也許假如你回到一個緊密聯繫的、 團結的、部落化的社會,

  • you can get over trauma pretty quickly.

    你很快就能從精神創傷中康復。

  • And if you come back to an alienating, modern society,

    但假如你回到一個人與人 疏遠的現代的社會,

  • you might remain traumatized your entire life.

    你可能在以後的一輩子 都遭受精神創傷。

  • In other words, maybe the problem isn't them, the vets;

    也就是說,也許問題不在於 退伍軍人本身;

  • maybe the problem is us.

    而在於社會上的我們。

  • Certainly, modern society is hard on the human psyche

    的確,現代社會對人類的精神 帶來了重大的壓力,

  • by every metric that we have.

    這些壓力來自於我們社會上 各種的衡量標準。

  • As wealth goes up in a society,

    隨著社會財富的積累,

  • the suicide rate goes up instead of down.

    自殺率上升而不是下降。

  • If you live in modern society,

    假如你生活在現代社會,

  • you're up to eight times more likely

    你患上抑鬱症的可能性

  • to suffer from depression in your lifetime

    相比於你在貧窮的農業社會生活要高八倍。

  • than if you live in a poor, agrarian society.

    現代社會也許產生了最高的自殺率

  • Modern society has probably produced the highest rates of suicide

    抑鬱症、焦慮症、孤僻症 和受到童年虐待的可能,

  • and depression and anxiety and loneliness and child abuse

    這比例要比歷史任一時代都高。

  • ever in human history.

    我看過一個研究,

  • I saw one study

    它把奈吉利亞的婦女,

  • that compared women in Nigeria,

    也就是非洲最混亂、最暴力、最腐敗

  • one of the most chaotic and violent and corrupt

    最貧窮的國家之一,

  • and poorest countries in Africa,

    和北美的女性進行比較。

  • to women in North America.

    北美的城市女性 是憂鬱症患病率最高的。

  • And the highest rates of depression were urban women in North America.

    她們也是最富裕的群體。

  • That was also the wealthiest group.

    我們回頭來看美軍的狀況。

  • So let's go back to the US military.

    10% 的軍人經歷過戰爭。

  • Ten percent are in combat.

    這裡面有將近 50% 的軍人登記在案, 領取創傷後壓力症候群的補償。

  • Around 50 percent have filed for PTSD compensation.

    所以大概 40% 的退休軍人 並不是在海外受到精神創傷,

  • So about 40 percent of veterans really were not traumatized overseas

    而是回到家後 發現他們被孤立

  • but have come home to discover they are dangerously alienated

    並感到沮喪絕望。

  • and depressed.

    那麼他們遭遇了什麼?

  • So what is happening with them?

    在他們身上究竟發生了什麼,

  • What's going on with those people,

    我們讓 40% 的人, 患上創傷後壓力症,卻不清楚成因?

  • the phantom 40 percent that are troubled but don't understand why?

    也許是這樣的:

  • Maybe it's this:

    也許當時他們在海外,

  • maybe they had an experience of sort of tribal closeness

    經歷過部隊親密的戰友關係。

  • in their unit when they were overseas.

    他們一起吃飯,一起睡覺,

  • They were eating together, sleeping together,

    一起完成任務。

  • doing tasks and missions together.

    他們以生命維護彼此的信任。

  • They were trusting each other with their lives.

    當他們回到家,

  • And then they come home

    他們必須捨棄戰場上的所有情誼,

  • and they have to give all that up

    他們回到社會,這個現代社會,

  • and they're coming back to a society, a modern society,

    這個即使沒有入過伍的人 都覺得艱難的社會。

  • which is hard on people who weren't even in the military.

    所有人在這社會都活得艱苦。

  • It's just hard on everybody.

    而我們卻一直關注 精神創傷、創傷後壓力症,

  • And we keep focusing on trauma, PTSD.

    但對大部分人來說,

  • But for a lot of these people,

    也許這不是精神創傷。

  • maybe it's not trauma.

    我的意思是, 士兵的確是受過精神創傷,

  • I mean, certainly, soldiers are traumatized

    也有士兵接受過治療。

  • and the ones who are have to be treated for that.

    但他們中的很多人——

  • But a lot of them --

    也許困擾他們的只是一種隔離感。

  • maybe what's bothering them is actually a kind of alienation.

    我的意思是,也許我們只是 錯用了詞語去形容他們,

  • I mean, maybe we just have the wrong word for some of it,

    只要改變我們的語言、 我們的認知,

  • and just changing our language, our understanding,

    就能幫助改變現狀。

  • would help a little bit.

    「 戰後孤獨感症候群 」

  • "Post-deployment alienation disorder."

    也許只要這樣稱呼 他們其中的一部分人,

  • Maybe even just calling it that for some of these people

    就能幫助他們停止聯想

  • would allow them to stop imagining

    一個根本沒有發生過的創傷,

  • trying to imagine a trauma that didn't really happen

    這是為了解釋一種 他們正在經歷的感受。

  • in order to explain a feeling that really is happening.

    而事實上,這是一種 非常危險的感覺。

  • And in fact, it's an extremely dangerous feeling.

    隔離感和抑鬱會導致自殺。

  • That alienation and depression can lead to suicide.

    這些人正處於危險中。

  • These people are in danger.

    瞭解成因是非常重要的事情。

  • It's very important to understand why.

    以色列軍隊的 創傷後壓力症比例在1%左右。

  • The Israeli military has a PTSD rate of around one percent.

    有一種理論是說,因為以色列 的所有人都需要服兵役。

  • The theory is that everyone in Israel is supposed to serve in the military.

    當軍人從前線回來,

  • When soldiers come back from the front line,

    他們不是要從軍隊環境回到文明社會,

  • they're not going from a military environment to a civilian environment.

    而是回到一個

  • They're coming back to a community where everyone understands

    人人都瞭解甚麼是當兵的社會。

  • about the military.

    每個人都曾經服役、或者準備去服役。

  • Everyone's been in it or is going to be in it.

    每個人都瞭解他們處於的環境,

  • Everyone understands the situation they're all in.

    就像他們都處於一個大部落。

  • It's as if they're all in one big tribe.

    我們知道假如你用一隻實驗鼠,

  • We know that if you take a lab rat

    讓它受到精神創傷, 再把它獨自放在籠子里,

  • and traumatize it and put it in a cage by itself,

    你可以永無止境地 讓牠保持在精神創傷的狀態。

  • you can maintain its trauma symptoms almost indefinitely.

    但假如你把同樣的實驗鼠 放在有其他老鼠的籠子里,

  • And if you take that same lab rat and put it in a cage with other rats,

    幾個星期後, 牠的表現就會回復正常了。

  • after a couple of weeks, it's pretty much OK.

    9/11事件以後,

  • After 9/11,

    紐約市的謀殺率降低了 40%,

  • the murder rate in New York City went down by 40 percent.

    自殺率也下降了,

  • The suicide rate went down.

    紐約市暴力犯罪率在 911 事件後也下降了。

  • The violent crime rate in New York went down after 9/11.

    即使經歷過之前的戰爭、 患有創傷後壓力症候群的退伍軍人

  • Even combat veterans of previous wars who suffered from PTSD

    也說他們的症狀在 911 事件之後減輕了。

  • said that their symptoms went down after 9/11 happened.

    原因是,假如你讓 整個社會受到精神創傷,

  • The reason is that if you traumatize an entire society,

    我們不會瓦解崩潰並 和別人針鋒相對。

  • we don't fall apart and turn on one another.

    我們會團結起來。

  • We come together. We unify.

    從根本上說,我們部落化了,

  • Basically, we tribalize,

    團結一起的過程讓人感覺很好, 也對我們有益,

  • and that process of unifying feels so good and is so good for us,

    而且它甚至可以幫助那些

  • that it even helps people

    正在精神障礙中掙扎的人們。

  • who are struggling with mental health issues.

    在二戰倫敦被德國轟炸的期間,

  • During the blitz in London,

    精神病醫院的患者減少了。

  • admissions to psychiatric wards went down during the bombings.

    有一段時間,美軍從海外返回的國家

  • For a while, that was the kind of country

    是一個團結的國家。

  • that American soldiers came back to -- a unified country.

    我們團結在一起。

  • We were sticking together.

    我們嘗試去瞭解我們面對的威脅。

  • We were trying to understand the threat against us.

    我們嘗試去幫助自己以至於整個世界。

  • We were trying to help ourselves and the world.

    但情況改變了。

  • But that's changed.

    現在美軍,

  • Now, American soldiers,

    美國的退伍軍人正在回到 一個極其分裂的國家,

  • American veterans are coming back to a country that is so bitterly divided

    兩黨互相指控對方叛國、

  • that the two political parties are literally accusing each other

    是國家的敵人、

  • of treason, of being an enemy of the state,

    或者暗中顛覆國家的 國土安全和福利。

  • of trying to undermine the security and the welfare of their own country.

    貧富差距是有史以來最大的。

  • The gap between rich and poor is the biggest it's ever been.

    現狀還在惡化。

  • It's just getting worse.

    族群關係也很糟糕。

  • Race relations are terrible.

    因為種族的不平等,

  • There are demonstrations and even riots in the streets

    街上有抗議活動,甚至暴亂。

  • because of racial injustice.

    退伍軍人知道任何 一個部落或者連隊

  • And veterans know that any tribe that treated itself that way -- in fact,

    以這樣的方式對待自己的戰友, 都不會存活。

  • any platoon that treated itself that way -- would never survive.

    我們卻已經習慣了。

  • We've gotten used to it.

    退伍軍人曾經離開,現在重新回來

  • Veterans have gone away and are coming back

    以全新的角度看待自己的國家。

  • and seeing their own country with fresh eyes.

    他們看到現在正在發生的事。

  • And they see what's going on.

    這就是他們為之奮鬥的國家。

  • This is the country they fought for.

    難怪他們會絕望。

  • No wonder they're depressed.

    難怪他們會害怕。

  • No wonder they're scared.

    有時我們問自己 我們能不能拯救退伍軍人。

  • Sometimes, we ask ourselves if we can save the vets.

    我覺得真正的問題在於 我們能不能拯救自己。

  • I think the real question is if we can save ourselves.

    假如我們可以,

  • If we can,

    那麼我覺得退伍軍人就能康復。

  • I think the vets are going to be fine.

    現在這個國家需要團結起來了,

  • It's time for this country to unite,

    只願能幫助那些為了保護我們 而戰爭的男人和女人。

  • if only to help the men and women who fought to protect us.

    謝謝大家。

  • Thank you very much.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

I worked as a war reporter for 15 years

我曾經當了十五年的戰地記者,

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B1 US TED 軍人 退伍 精神 社會 戰爭

TED】塞巴斯蒂安-榮格:我們孤獨的社會讓我們戰後難返(《我們孤獨的社會讓我們戰後難返|塞巴斯蒂安-榮格》)。 (【TED】Sebastian Junger: Our lonely society makes it hard to come home from war (Our lonely society makes it hard to come home from war | Sebastian Junger))

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    chloe posted on 2021/01/14
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