Armstrong or at least portray that to the general public and for people to realise who

he is, he goes on to win 7 tour de France, he retires, he makes a comeback, he becomes

so powerful and so big, there must have been a point where you started to think is you

know is this person too big, too powerful with too much money to ever be toppled almost.

Yes I have to say I always felt he was too big to be toppled. If you said to me did you

see the end coming as it came, no I didn't, I absolutely didn't because in 2001 I found

out that he was working with Michele Ferrari doping doctor, should that have not made a

big difference, it should, did it, no. Lance said I believe Michele's an honest man and

a lot of the journalists said well that's ok then Lance believes he's honest, David

wrote Lance believes he's honest then what David Walsh said is interesting but not that

relevant. So i come up with Emma O'reilly and she says I was Lances masseuse there was

doping in the team and I put that in a book with Pierre Ballester and people say you know

what Emma Reilly's just one witness may be a bitter ex employee and then I go to Betsy

Andreu she heard him admit using doping Oh shes a bitter wife of a team mate and Lance

had a way of diminishing all the people who spoke against him and I suppose the bit that

really frustrated me was the readiness of so many to accept Armstrongs totally implausible

explanations, to accept the fact that he felt he could carry to assassinate anybody who

spoke against him and I found that depressing it was like If you were a big guy you could

say whatever you like about other people and the journalists who should have been challenging

you didn't challenge you and were prepared to let you get away with it.

13 years obviously is a long time to pursue one person almost or one subject, do you feel

like it's closed now for you?

Yer I think it is pretty much closed and people you know because I was on this case for a

long time I feel I've got exaggerated credit for it really I mean if you want to know how

Lance armstrong was brought down you need to look at Lance Armstrong not David Walsh

because although Lance was a smart guy I think his smartness was more the analytical type

of intelligence, I don't think he was emotionally intelligent. He didn't realise that Floyd

Landis would constitute a very dangerous enemy, so when Floyd Landis got banned after 2006

Tour de France and came back and is looking, is reaching out to Lance for some help and

Lance says basically get lost you're a loser you were caught. Lance made an enemy of a

guy who is incredibly dangerous because Floyd is tough, he's hard and when he takes his

gloves off he's a formidable fighter. So Floyd took the gloves off, wrote about what

life was like in the US postal team and because maybe people like me had created a lot of

doubt about Lance Armstrong then you had people like Travis Tygart, the united states anti

doping agency CEO you had people like Jeff Novitzky who was conducting an investigation

into doping in cycling. They were listening to Floyd because in a way maybe what I had

done had created enough doubt for Floyds allegations to have a huge amount of credibility, but

Floyds allegations were the turning point in this story and from that moment on we had

entered the end game, and it was going to end very good for the truth and very badly

for Lance Armstrong.

Do you think that had he not come out of retirement, back in 2009 that we might not be sat here

talking about the same subject because things might not have come out?

Totally, if he hadn't rid-, if he hadn't made his comeback in 2009 there is no way

in the world that he would have been caught in my eyes, but it's like you know we've

all watched Hollywood movies right, the guy has been the greatest bank thief in the history

of robbing banks and he's accumulated a lot of money and he goes into retirement and

he's living a nice sedate life and somebody comes along and says you know there's one

last job that you should consider doing, and for Lance Armstrong coming back in 2009 was

that one last job, couldn't resist it, I believe he did it for the money, that he felt

he needed some extra money before finally going into retirement, but he was lured by

that one last job, one last adventure, and it's, it's you know the history of Hollywood

is littered with movies that have bored us with guys coming out of retirement for one

last job and Lance was just you know another of that genre.