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  • GWEN IFILL, NEWSHOUR ANCHOR: Good evening, I’m Gwen Ifill.

  • JUDY WOODRUFF, NEWSHOUR ANCHOR: And I’m Judy Woodruff.

  • And welcome to this PBS NEWSHOUR special: coverage of the second presidential debate

  • between Democrat Hillary Clinton and Republican Donald Trump.

  • The stage is set at Washington University in St. Louis.

  • The most unconventional campaign in modern presidential history has reached entirely

  • new levels.

  • Friday’s release of the videotape from 2005 of Donald Trump using lewd language and bragging

  • about making unwanted sexual advances on women has prompted a number of Republicans to withdraw

  • their support from their party’s nominee.

  • IFILL: Tonight’s debate will be a town hall format where Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

  • will be taking questions from an audience of uncommitted voters, as well as from moderators

  • Martha Radiate of ABC News and Anderson Cooper of CNN.

  • Joining us at our table are our regular NEWSHOUR contributors: syndicated columnist Mark Shields,

  • New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report.

  • And in another unprecedented turn: Donald Trump staged a surprise appearance little

  • more than an hour ago with four women, three of who whom accused Bill Clinton of sexual

  • assault or harassment.

  • In response, the Clinton campaign said, were not surprised see Donald Trump continue his

  • destructive race to the bottom.

  • Friends, the moral equivalency wars are in full — I don’t know, sway, David?

  • DAVID BROOKS, THE NEW YORK TIMES: This could be one of the most historic and repulsive

  • debates to the American political history.

  • Weve entered TV — a reality TV show of the bottom level.

  • And so I’m expecting a traffic accident frankly.

  • And what trump did tonight I think will backfire on him badly as more Republicans flee from

  • him.

  • WOODRUFF: Amy, how much of all this stuff do you think is going to come up tonight?

  • AMY WALTER, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Well, the fact that I can’t let my fourth-grader

  • watch a presidential debate I think tells you all you need to know about where we are

  • in this campaign and what I expect from it.

  • Look, I think Donald Trump’s — before he had this press conference my thought was

  • he’s either going to come in do contrition or he’s going to do combative.

  • And we know obviously which half he chose.

  • He has decided throughout the course of this campaign to double down, triple down, any

  • time he’s challenged.

  • He is only interested in talking to histhe faithful, never interested in reaching beyond

  • that.

  • IFILL: And, Mark Shields, are we talking about a policy debate tonight or a personality debate?

  • MARK SHIELDS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Were talking about Donald Trump trying to save

  • his candidacy.

  • Stop Republicans from fleeing him.

  • Energizing the base.

  • Making it a Clinton race again.

  • I think unsuccessfully.

  • WOODRUFF: And now here are

  • the moderators, Martha Radiate and

  • Anderson Cooper.

  • [*] RADIATE: Ladies and gentlemen the Republican nominee for president, Donald J. Trump, and

  • the Democratic nominee for president, Hillary Clinton.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • COOPER: Thank you very much for being here.

  • Were going to begin with a question from one of the members in our town hall.

  • Each of you will have two minutes to respond to this question.

  • Secretary Clinton, you won the coin toss, so youll go first.

  • Our first question comes from Patrice Brock.

  • Patrice?

  • QUESTION: Thank you, and good evening.

  • The last debate could have been rated as MA, mature audiences, per TV parental guidelines.

  • Knowing that educators assign viewing the presidential debates as studentshomework,

  • do you feel youre modeling appropriate and positive behavior for today’s youth?

  • CLINTON: Well, thank you.

  • Are you a teacher?

  • Yes, I think that that’s a very good question, because I’ve heard from lots of teachers

  • and parents about some of their concerns about some of the things that are being said and

  • done in this campaign.

  • And I think it is very important for us to make clear to our children that our country

  • really is great because were good.

  • And we are going to respect one another, lift each other up.

  • We are going to be looking for ways to celebrate our diversity, and we are going to try to

  • reach out to every boy and girl, as well as every adult, to bring them in to working on

  • behalf of our country.

  • I have a very positive and optimistic view about what we can do together.

  • That’s why the slogan of my campaign isStronger Together,” because I think if

  • we work together, if we overcome the divisiveness that sometimes sets Americans against one

  • another, and instead we make some big goalsand I’ve set forth some big goals, getting

  • the economy to work for everyone, not just those at the top, making sure that we have

  • the best education system from preschool through college and making it affordable, and so much

  • else.

  • If we set those goals and we go together to try to achieve them, there’s nothing in

  • my opinion that America can’t do.

  • So that’s why I hope that we will come together in this campaign.

  • Obviously, I’m hoping to earn your vote, I’m hoping to be elected in November, and

  • I can promise you, I will work with every American.

  • I want to be the president for all Americans, regardless of your political beliefs, where

  • you come from, what you look like, your religion.

  • I want us to heal our country and bring it together because that’s, I think, the best

  • way for us to get the future that our children and our grandchildren deserve.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, thank you.

  • Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.

  • TRUMP: Well, I actually agree with that.

  • I agree with everything she said.

  • I began this campaign because I was so tired of seeing such foolish things happen to our

  • country.

  • This is a great country.

  • This is a great land.

  • I’ve gotten to know the people of the country over the last year-and-a-half that I’ve

  • been doing this as a politician.

  • I cannot believe I’m saying that about myself, but I guess I have been a politician.

  • TRUMP: And my whole concept was to make America great again.

  • When I watch the deals being made, when I watch what’s happening with some horrible

  • things like Obamacare, where your health insurance and health care is going up by numbers that

  • are astronomical, 68 percent, 59 percent, 71 percent, when I look at the Iran deal and

  • how bad a deal it is for us, it’s a one-sided transaction where were giving back $150

  • billion to a terrorist state, really, the number one terror state, weve made them

  • a strong country from really a very weak country just three years ago.

  • When I look at all of the things that I see and all of the potential that our country

  • has, we have such tremendous potential, whether it’s in business and trade, where were

  • doing so badly.

  • Last year, we had almost $800 billion trade deficit.

  • In other words, trading with other countries.

  • We had an $800 billion deficit.

  • It’s hard to believe.

  • Inconceivable.

  • You say who’s making these deals?

  • Were going the make great deals.

  • Were going to have a strong border.

  • Were going to bring back law and order.

  • Just today, policemen was shot, two killed.

  • And this is happening on a weekly basis.

  • We have to bring back respect to law enforcement.

  • At the same time, we have to take care of people on all sides.

  • We need justice.

  • But I want to do things that haven’t been done, including fixing and making our inner

  • cities better for the African-American citizens that are so great, and for the Latinos, Hispanics,

  • and I look forward to doing it.

  • It’s called make America great again.

  • COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • The question from Patrice was about are you both modeling positive and appropriate behavior

  • for today’s youth?

  • We received a lot of questions online, Mr. Trump, about the tape that was released on

  • Friday, as you can imagine.

  • You called what you said locker room banter.

  • You described kissing women without consent, grabbing their genitals.

  • That is sexual assault.

  • You bragged that you have sexually assaulted women.

  • Do you understand that?

  • TRUMP: No, I didn’t say that at all.

  • I don’t think you understood what wasthis was locker room talk.

  • I’m not proud of it.

  • I apologize to my family.

  • I apologize to the American people.

  • Certainly I’m not proud of it.

  • But this is locker room talk.

  • You know, when we have a world where you have ISIS chopping off heads, where you haveand,

  • frankly, drowning people in steel cages, where you have wars and horrible, horrible sights

  • all over, where you have so many bad things happening, this is like medieval times.

  • We haven’t seen anything like this, the carnage all over the world.

  • And they look and they see.

  • Can you imagine the people that are, frankly, doing so well against us with ISIS?

  • And they look at our country and they see what’s going on.

  • Yes, I’m very embarrassed by it.

  • I hate it.

  • But it’s locker room talk, and it’s one of those things.

  • I will knock the hell out of ISIS.

  • Were going to defeat ISIS.

  • ISIS happened a number of years ago in a vacuum that was left because of bad judgment.

  • And I will tell you, I will take care of ISIS.

  • COOPER: So, Mr. Trump

  • TRUMP: And we should get on to much more important things and much bigger things.

  • COOPER: Just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years

  • ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?

  • TRUMP: I have great respect for women.

  • Nobody has more respect for women than I do.

  • COOPER: So, for the record, youre saying you never did that?

  • TRUMP: I’ve said things that, frankly, you hear these things I said.

  • And I was embarrassed by it.

  • But I have tremendous respect for women.

  • COOPER: Have you ever done those things?

  • TRUMP: And women have respect for me.

  • And I will tell you: No, I have not.

  • And I will tell you that I’m going to make our country safe.

  • Were going to have borders in our country, which we don’t have now.

  • People are pouring into our country, and theyre coming in from the Middle East and other places.

  • Were going to make America safe again.

  • Were going to make America great again, but were going to make America safe again.

  • And were going to make America wealthy again, because if you don’t do that, it

  • justit sounds harsh to say, but we have to build up the wealth of our nation.

  • COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • TRUMP: Right now, other nations are taking our jobs and theyre taking our wealth.

  • COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • TRUMP: And that’s what I want to talk about.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?

  • CLINTON: Well, like everyone else, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking over the last

  • 48 hours about what we heard and saw.

  • You know, with prior Republican nominees for president, I disagreed with them on politics,

  • policies, principles, but I never questioned their fitness to serve.

  • Donald Trump is different.

  • I said starting back in June that he was not fit to be president and commander-in-chief.

  • And many Republicans and independents have said the same thing.

  • What we all saw and heard on Friday was Donald talking about women, what he thinks about

  • women, what he does to women.

  • And he has said that the video doesn’t represent who he is.

  • But I think it’s clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is.

  • Because weve seen this throughout the campaign.

  • We have seen him insult women.

  • Weve seen him rate women on their appearance, ranking them from one to ten.

  • Weve seen him embarrass women on TV and on Twitter.

  • We saw him after the first debate spend nearly a week denigrating a former Miss Universe

  • in the harshest, most personal terms.

  • So, yes, this is who Donald Trump is.

  • But it’s not only women, and it’s not only this video that raises questions about

  • his fitness to be our president, because he has also targeted immigrants, African- Americans,

  • Latinos, people with disabilities, POWs, Muslims, and so many others.

  • So this is who Donald Trump is.

  • And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who

  • we are.

  • That’s whyto go back to your question — I want to send a messagewe all should

  • to every boy and girl and, indeed, to the entire world that America already is great,

  • but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work

  • with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.

  • CLINTON: These are very important values to me, because this is the America that I know

  • and love.

  • And I can pledge to you tonight that this is the America that I will serve if I’m

  • so fortunate enough to become your president.

  • RADIATE: And we want to get to some questions from online

  • TRUMP: Am I allowed to respond to that?

  • I assume I am.

  • RADIATE: Yes, you can respond to that.

  • TRUMP: It’s just words, folks.

  • It’s just words.

  • Those words, I’ve been hearing them for many years.

  • I heard them when they were running for the Senate in New York, where Hillary was going

  • to bring back jobs to upstate New York and she failed.

  • I’ve heard them where Hillary is constantly talking about the inner cities of our country,

  • which are a disaster education-wise, job wise, safety-wise, in every way possible.

  • I’m going to help the African-Americans.

  • I’m going to help the Latinos, Hispanics.

  • I am going to help the inner cities.

  • She’s done a terrible job for the African-Americans.

  • She wants their vote, and she does nothing, and then she comes back four years later.

  • We saw that firsthand when she was United States senator.

  • She campaigned where the primary part of her campaign

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump — I want to get to audience questions and online questions.

  • TRUMP: So, she’s allowed to do that, but I’m not allowed to respond?

  • RADIATE: Youre going to haveyoure going to get to respond right now.

  • TRUMP: Sounds fair.

  • RADIATE: This tape is generating intense interest.

  • In just 48 hours, it’s become the single most talked about story of the entire 2016

  • election on Facebook, with millions and millions of people discussing it on the social network.

  • As we said a moment ago, we do want to bring in questions from voters around country via

  • social media, and our first stays on this topic.

  • Jeff from Ohio asks on Facebook, “Trump says the campaign has changed him.

  • When did that happen?”

  • So, Mr. Trump, let me add to that.

  • When you walked off that bus at age 59, were you a different man or did that behavior continue

  • until just recently?

  • And you have two minutes for this.

  • TRUMP: It was locker room talk, as I told you.

  • That was locker room talk.

  • I’m not proud of it.

  • I am a person who has great respect for people, for my family, for the people of this country.

  • And certainly, I’m not proud of it.

  • But that was something that happened.

  • If you look at Bill Clinton, far worse.

  • Mine are words, and his was action.

  • His was what he’s done to women.

  • There’s never been anybody in the history politics in this nation that’s been so abusive

  • to women.

  • So you can say any way you want to say it, but Bill Clinton was abusive to women.

  • Hillary Clinton attacked those same women and attacked them viciously.

  • Four of them here tonight.

  • One of the women, who is a wonderful woman, at 12 years old, was raped at 12.

  • Her client she represented got him off, and she’s seen laughing on two separate occasions,

  • laughing at the girl who was raped.

  • Kathy Shelton, that young woman is here with us tonight.

  • So don’t tell me about words.

  • I am absolutely — I apologize for those words.

  • But it is things that people say.

  • But what President Clinton did, he was impeached, he lost his license to practice law.

  • He had to pay an $850,000 fine to one of the women.

  • Paula Jones, who’s also here tonight.

  • And I will tell you that when Hillary brings up a point like that and she talks about words

  • that I said 11 years ago, I think it’s disgraceful, and I think she should be ashamed of herself,

  • if you want to know the truth.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • RADIATE: Can we please hold the applause?

  • Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes.

  • CLINTON: Well, first, let me start by saying that so much of what he’s just said is not

  • right, but he gets to run his campaign any way he chooses.

  • He gets to decide what he wants to talk about.

  • Instead of answering people’s questions, talking about our agenda, laying out the plans

  • that we have that we think can make a better life and a better country, that’s his choice.

  • When I hear something like that, I am reminded of what my friend, Michelle Obama, advised

  • us all: When they go low, you go high.

  • (APPLAUSE) And, look, if this were just about one video, maybe what he’s saying tonight

  • would be understandable, but everyone can draw their own conclusions at this point about

  • whether or not the man in the video or the man on the stage respects women.

  • But he never apologizes for anything to anyone.

  • CLINTON: He never apologized to Mr. and Mrs. Khan, the Gold Star family whose son, Captain

  • Khan, died in the line of duty in Iraq.

  • And Donald insulted and attacked them for weeks over their religion.

  • He never apologized to the distinguished federal judge who was born in Indiana, but Donald

  • said he couldn’t be trusted to be a judge because his parents were, quote, “Mexican.”

  • He never apologized to the reporter that he mimicked and mocked on national television

  • and our children were watching.

  • And he never apologized for the racist lie that President Obama was not born in the United

  • States of America.

  • He owes the president an apology, he owes our country an apology, and he needs to take

  • responsibility for his actions and his words.

  • TRUMP: Well, you owe the president an apology, because as you know very well, your campaign,

  • Sidney Blumenthalhe’s another real winner that you haveand he’s the one

  • that got this started, along with your campaign manager, and they were on television just

  • two weeks ago, she was, saying exactly that.

  • So you really owe him an apology.

  • Youre the one that sent the pictures around your campaign, sent the pictures around with

  • President Obama in a certain garb.

  • That was long before I was ever involved, so you actually owe an apology.

  • Number two, Michelle Obama.

  • I’ve gotten to see the commercials that they did on you.

  • And I’ve gotten to see some of the most vicious commercials I’ve ever seen of Michelle

  • Obama talking about you, Hillary.

  • So, you talk about friend?

  • Go back and take a look at those commercials, a race where you lost fair and square, unlike

  • the Bernie Sanders race, where you won, but not fair and square, in my opinion.

  • And all you have to do is take a look at WikiLeaks and just see what they say about Bernie Sanders

  • and see what Deborah Wasserman Schultz had in mind, because Bernie Sanders, between super-delegates

  • and Deborah Wasserman Schultz, he never had a chance.

  • And I was so surprised to see him sign on with the devil.

  • But when you talk about apology, I think the one that you should really be apologizing

  • for and the thing that you should be apologizing for are the 33,000 e-mails that you deleted,

  • and that you acid washed, and then the two boxes of e-mails and other things last week

  • that were taken from an office and are now missing.

  • And I’ll tell you what.

  • I didn’t think I’d say this, but I’m going to say it, and I hate to say it.

  • But if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look

  • into your situation, because there has never been so many lies, so much deception.

  • There has never been anything like it, and were going to have a special prosecutor.

  • When I speak, I go out and speak, the people of this country are furious.

  • In my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the FBI are furious.

  • There has never been anything like this, where e-mailsand you get a subpoena, you get

  • a subpoena, and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 e-mails, and then you acid

  • wash them or bleach them, as you would say, very expensive process.

  • So were going to get a special prosecutor, and were going to look into it, because

  • you know what?

  • People have beentheir lives have been destroyed for doing one-fifth of what youve

  • done.

  • And it’s a disgrace.

  • And honestly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

  • RADIATE: Secretary Clinton, I want to follow up on that.

  • (CROSSTALK)

  • RADIATE: I’m going to let you talk about e-mails.

  • CLINTON: … because everything he just said is absolutely false, but I’m not surprised.

  • TRUMP: Oh, really?

  • CLINTON: In the first debate

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • RADIATE: And really, the audience needs to calm down here.

  • CLINTON: … I told people that it would be impossible to be fact-checking Donald all

  • the time.

  • I’d never get to talk about anything I want to do and how were going to really make

  • lives better for people.

  • So, once again, go to HillaryClinton.com.

  • We have literally Trumpyou can fact check him in real time.

  • Last time at the first debate, we had millions of people fact checking, so I expect well

  • have millions more fact checking, because, you know, it isit’s just awfully good

  • that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.

  • TRUMP: Because you’d be in jail.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • RADIATE: Secretary Clinton

  • COOPER: We want to remind the audience to please not talk out loud.

  • Please do not applaud.

  • Youre just wasting time.

  • RADIATE: And, Secretary Clinton, I do want to follow up on e- mails.

  • Youve said your handing of your e-mails was a mistake.

  • You disagreed with FBI Director James Comey, calling your handling of classified information,

  • quote, “extremely careless.”

  • The FBI said that there were 110 classified e-mails that were exchanged, eight of which

  • were top secret, and that it was possible hostile actors did gain access to those e-mails.

  • You don’t call that extremely careless?

  • CLINTON: Well, Martha, first, let me sayand I’ve said before, but I’ll repeat it,

  • because I want everyone to hear itthat was a mistake, and I take responsibility for

  • using a personal e-mail account.

  • Obviously, if I were to do it over again, I would not.

  • I’m not making any excuses.

  • It was a mistake.

  • And I am very sorry about that.

  • But I think it’s also important to point out where there are some misleading accusations

  • from critics and others.

  • After a year-long investigation, there is no evidence that anyone hacked the server

  • I was using and there is no evidence that anyone can point to at allanyone who

  • says otherwise has no basisthat any classified material ended up in the wrong hands.

  • I take classified materials very seriously and always have.

  • When I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee, I was privy to a lot of classified material.

  • Obviously, as secretary of state, I had some of the most important secrets that we possess,

  • such as going after bin Laden.

  • So I am very committed to taking classified information seriously.

  • And as I said, there is no evidence that any classified information ended up in the wrong

  • hands.

  • RADIATE: OK, were going to move on.

  • TRUMP: And yet she didn’t know the wordthe letter C on a document.

  • Right?

  • She didn’t even know what that wordwhat that letter meant.

  • You know, it’s amazing.

  • I’m watching Hillary go over facts.

  • And she’s going after fact after fact, and she’s lying again, because she said she

  • you know, what she did with the e-mail was fine.

  • You think it was fine to delete 33,000 e-mails?

  • I don’t think so.

  • She said the 33,000 e-mails had to do with her daughter’s wedding, number one, and

  • a yoga class.

  • Well, maybe well give three or three or four or five or something.

  • 33,000 e-mails deleted, and now she’s saying there wasn’t anything wrong.

  • And more importantly, that was after getting a subpoena.

  • That wasn’t before.

  • That was after.

  • She got it from the United States Congress.

  • And I’ll be honest, I am so disappointed in congressmen, including Republicans, for

  • allowing this to happen.

  • Our Justice Department, where our husband goes on to the back of a airplane for 39 minutes,

  • talks to the attorney general days before a ruling is going to be made on her case.

  • But for you to say that there was nothing wrong with you deleting 39,000 e-mails, again,

  • you should be ashamed of yourself.

  • What you didand this is after getting a subpoena from the United States Congress.

  • COOPER: We have to move on.

  • TRUMP: You did that.

  • Wait a minute.

  • One second.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, you can respond, and then we got to move on.

  • RADIATE: We want to give the audience a chance.

  • TRUMP: If you did that in the private sector, you’d be put in jail, let alone after getting

  • a subpoena from the United States Congress.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, you can respond.

  • Then we have to move on to an audience question.

  • CLINTON: Look, it’s just not true.

  • And so please, go to

  • TRUMP: Oh, you didn’t delete them?

  • COOPER: Allow her to respond, please.

  • CLINTON: It was personal e-mails, not official.

  • TRUMP: Oh, 33,000?

  • Yeah.

  • CLINTON: Notwell, we turned over 35,000, so

  • TRUMP: Oh, yeah.

  • What about the other 15,000?

  • COOPER: Please allow her to respond.

  • She didn’t talk while you talked.

  • CLINTON: Yes, that’s true, I didn’t.

  • TRUMP: Because you have nothing to say.

  • CLINTON: I didn’t in the first debate, and I’m going to try not to in this debate,

  • because I’d like to get to the questions that the people have brought here tonight

  • to talk to us about.

  • TRUMP: Get off this question.

  • CLINTON: OK, Donald.

  • I know youre into big diversion tonight, anything to avoid talking about your campaign

  • and the way it’s exploding and the way Republicans are leaving you.

  • But let’s at least focus

  • TRUMP: Let’s see what happens

  • (CROSSTALK)

  • COOPER: Allow her to respond.

  • CLINTON: … on some of the issues that people care about tonight.

  • Let’s get to their questions.

  • COOPER: We have a question here from Ken Karpowicz.

  • He has a question about health care.

  • Ken?

  • TRUMP: I’d like to know, Anderson, why aren’t you bringing up the e-mails?

  • I’d like to know.

  • Why aren’t you bringing

  • COOPER: We brought up the e-mails.

  • TRUMP: No, it hasn’t.

  • It hasn’t.

  • And it hasn’t been finished at all.

  • COOPER: Ken Karpowicz has a question.

  • TRUMP: It’s nice toone on three.

  • QUESTION: Thank you.

  • Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, it is not affordable.

  • Premiums have gone up.

  • Deductibles have gone up.

  • Copays have gone up.

  • Prescriptions have gone up.

  • And the coverage has gone down.

  • What will you do to bring the cost down and make coverage better?

  • COOPER: That first one goes to Secretary Clinton, because you started out the last one to the

  • audience.

  • CLINTON: If he wants to start, he can start.

  • No, go ahead, Donald.

  • TRUMP: No, I’m a gentlemen, Hillary.

  • Go ahead.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton?

  • CLINTON: Well, I think Donald was about to say he’s going to solve it by repealing

  • it and getting rid of the Affordable Care Act.

  • And I’m going to fix it, because I agree with you.

  • Premiums have gotten too high.

  • Copays, deductibles, prescription drug costs, and I’ve laid out a series of actions that

  • we can take to try to get those costs down.

  • But here’s what I don’t want people to forget when were talking about reining

  • in the costs, which has to be the highest priority of the next president, when the Affordable

  • Care Act passed, it wasn’t just that 20 million got insurance who didn’t have it

  • before.

  • But that in and of itself was a good thing.

  • I meet these people all the time, and they tell me what a difference having that insurance

  • meant to them and their families.

  • But everybody else, the 170 million of us who get health insurance through our employees

  • got big benefits.

  • Number one, insurance companies can’t deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

  • Number two, no lifetime limits, which is a big deal if you have serious health problems.

  • Number three, women can’t be charged more than men for our health insurance, which is

  • the way it used to be before the Affordable Care Act.

  • Number four, if youre under 26, and your parents have a policy, you can be on that

  • policy until the age of 26, something that didn’t happen before.

  • So I want very much to save what works and is good about the Affordable Care Act.

  • But weve got to get costs down.

  • Weve got to provide additional help to small businesses so that they can afford to

  • provide health insurance.

  • But if we repeal it, as Donald has proposed, and start over again, all of those benefits

  • I just mentioned are lost to everybody, not just people who get their health insurance

  • on the exchange.

  • And then we would have to start all over again.

  • Right now, we are at 90 percent health insurance coverage.

  • That’s the highest weve ever been in our country.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, your time is up.

  • CLINTON: So I want us to get to 100 percent, but get costs down and keep quality up.

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.

  • TRUMP: It is such a great question and it’s maybe the question I get almost more than

  • anything else, outside of defense.

  • Obamacare is a disaster.

  • You know it.

  • We all know it.

  • It’s going up at numbers that nobody’s ever seen worldwide.

  • Nobody’s ever seen numbers like this for health care.

  • It’s only getting worse.

  • In ’17, it implodes by itself.

  • Their method of fixing it is to go back and ask Congress for more money, more and more

  • money.

  • We have right now almost $20 trillion in debt.

  • Obamacare will never work.

  • It’s very bad, very bad health insurance.

  • Far too expensive.

  • And not only expensive for the person that has it, unbelievably expensive for our country.

  • It’s going to be one of the biggest line items very shortly.

  • We have to repeal it and replace it with something absolutely much less expensive and something

  • that works, where your plan can actually be tailored.

  • We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines, where we stop insurance

  • companies from coming in and competing, because they wantand President Obama and whoever

  • was working on itthey want to leave those lines, because that gives the insurance companies

  • essentially monopolies.

  • We want competition.

  • You will have the finest health care plan there is.

  • She wants to go to a single-payer plan, which would be a disaster, somewhat similar to Canada.

  • And if you haven’t noticed the Canadians, when they need a big operation, when something

  • happens, they come into the United States in many cases because their system is so slow.

  • It’s catastrophic in certain ways.

  • But she wants to go to single payer, which means the government basically rules everything.

  • Hillary Clinton has been after this for years.

  • Obamacare was the first step.

  • Obamacare is a total disaster.

  • And not only are your rates going up by numbers that nobody’s ever believed, but your deductibles

  • are going up, so that unless you get hit by a truck, youre never going to be able to

  • use it.

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, your time

  • TRUMP: It is a disastrous plan, and it has to be repealed and replaced.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, let me follow up with you.

  • Your husband called Obamacare, quote, “the craziest thing in the world,” saying that

  • small-business owners are getting killed as premiums double, coverage is cut in half.

  • Was he mistaken or was the mistake simply telling the truth?

  • CLINTON: No, I mean, he clarified what he meant.

  • And it’s very clear.

  • Look, we are in a situation in our country where if we were to start all over again,

  • we might come up with a different system.

  • But we have an employer-based system.

  • That’s where the vast majority of people get their health care.

  • And the Affordable Care Act was meant to try to fill the gap between people who were too

  • poor and couldn’t put together any resources to afford health care, namely people on Medicaid.

  • Obviously, Medicare, which is a single-payer system, which takes care of our elderly and

  • does a great job doing it, by the way, and then all of the people who were employed,

  • but people who were working but didn’t have the money to afford insurance and didn’t

  • have anybody, an employer or anybody else, to help them.

  • That was the slot that the Obamacare approach was to take.

  • And like I say, 20 million people now have health insurance.

  • So if we just rip it up and throw it away, what Donald’s not telling you is we just

  • turn it back to the insurance companies the way it used to be, and that means the insurance

  • companies

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton

  • CLINTON: … get to do pretty much whatever they want, including saying, look, I’m sorry,

  • youve got diabetes, you had cancer, your child has asthma

  • COOPER: Your time is up.

  • CLINTON: … you may not be able to have insurance because you can’t afford it.

  • So let’s fix what’s broken about it, but let’s not throw it away and give it all

  • back to the insurance companies and the drug companies.

  • That’s not going to work.

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, let me follow up on this.

  • TRUMP: Well, I just wantjust one thing.

  • First of all, Hillary, everything’s broken about it.

  • Everything.

  • Number two, Bernie Sanders said that Hillary Clinton has very bad judgment.

  • This is a perfect example of it, trying to save Obamacare, which is a disaster.

  • COOPER: Youve said you want to end Obamacare

  • TRUMP: By the way

  • COOPER: Youve said you want to end Obamacare.

  • Youve also said you want to make coverage accessible for people with pre-existing conditions.

  • How do you force insurance companies to do that if youre no longer mandating that

  • every American get insurance?

  • TRUMP: Were going to be able to.

  • Youre going to have plans

  • COOPER: What does that mean?

  • TRUMP: Well, I’ll tell you what it means.

  • Youre going to have plans that are so good, because were going to have so much competition

  • in the insurance industry.

  • Once we break outonce we break out the lines and allow the competition to come

  • COOPER: Are you goingare you going to have a mandate that Americans have to have

  • health insurance?

  • TRUMP: President ObamaAnderson, excuse me.

  • President Obama, by keeping those lines, the boundary lines around each state, it was almost

  • gone until just very toward the end of the passage of Obamacare, which, by the way, was

  • a fraud.

  • You know that, because Jonathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare, was saidhe said

  • it was a great lie, it was a big lie.

  • President Obama said you keep your doctor, you keep your plan.

  • The whole thing was a fraud, and it doesn’t work.

  • But when we get rid of those lines, you will have competition, and we will be able to keep

  • pre-existing, well also be able to help people that can’t getdon’t have money

  • because we are going to have people protected.

  • And Republicans feel this way, believe it or not, and strongly this way.

  • Were going to block grant into the states.

  • Were going to block grant into Medicaid into the states

  • COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • TRUMP: … so that we will be able to take care of people without the necessary funds

  • to take care of themselves.

  • COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • RADIATE: We now go to Gorbah Hamed with a question for both candidates.

  • QUESTION: Hi.

  • There are 3.3 million Muslims in the United States, and I’m one of them.

  • Youve mentioned working with Muslim nations, but with Islamophobia on the rise, how will

  • you help people like me deal with the consequences of being labeled as a threat to the country

  • after the election is over?

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, youre first.

  • TRUMP: Well, youre right about Islamophobia, and that’s a shame.

  • But one thing we have to do is we have to make sure thatbecause there is a problem.

  • I mean, whether we like it or not, and we could be very politically correct, but whether

  • we like it or not, there is a problem.

  • And we have to be sure that Muslims come in and report when they see something going on.

  • When they see hatred going on, they have to report it.

  • As an example, in San Bernardino, many people saw the bombs all over the apartment of the

  • two people that killed 14 and wounded many, many people.

  • Horribly wounded.

  • Theyll never be the same.

  • Muslims have to report the problems when they see them.

  • And, you know, there’s always a reason for everything.

  • If they don’t do that, it’s a very difficult situation for our country, because you look

  • at Orlando and you look at San Bernardino and you look at the World Trade Center.

  • Go outside.

  • Look at Paris.

  • Look at that horriblethese are radical Islamic terrorists.

  • And she won’t even mention the word and nor will President Obama.

  • He won’t use the termradical Islamic terrorism.”

  • Now, to solve a problem, you have to be able to state what the problem is or at least say

  • the name.

  • She won’t say the name and President Obama won’t say the name.

  • But the name is there.

  • It’s radical Islamic terror.

  • And before you solve it, you have to say the name.

  • RADIATE: Secretary Clinton?

  • CLINTON: Well, thank you for asking your question.

  • And I’ve heard this question from a lot of Muslim-Americans across our country, because,

  • unfortunately, there’s been a lot of very divisive, dark things said about Muslims.

  • And even someone like Captain Khan, the young man who sacrificed himself defending our country

  • in the United States Army, has been subject to attack by Donald.

  • I want to say just a couple of things.

  • First, weve had Muslims in America since George Washington.

  • And weve had many successful Muslims.

  • We just lost a particular well-known one with Muhammad Ali.

  • CLINTON: My vision of America is an America where everyone has a place, if youre willing

  • to work hard, you do your part, you contribute to the community.

  • That’s what America is.

  • That’s what we want America to be for our children and our grandchildren.

  • It’s also very short-sighted and even dangerous to be engaging in the kind of demagogic rhetoric

  • that Donald has about Muslims.

  • We need American Muslims to be part of our eyes and ears on our front lines.

  • I’ve worked with a lot of different Muslim groups around America.

  • I’ve met with a lot of them, and I’ve heard how important it is for them to feel

  • that they are wanted and included and part of our country, part of our homeland security,

  • and that’s what I want to see.

  • It’s also important I intend to defeat ISIS, to do so in a coalition with majority Muslim

  • nations.

  • Right now, a lot of those nations are hearing what Donald says and wondering, why should

  • we cooperate with the Americans?

  • And this is a gift to ISIS and the terrorists, violent jihadist terrorists.

  • We are not at war with Islam.

  • And it is a mistake and it plays into the hands of the terrorists to act as though we

  • are.

  • So I want a country where citizens like you and your family are just as welcome as anyone

  • else.

  • RADIATE: Thank you, Secretary Clinton.

  • Mr. Trump, in December, you said this.

  • Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering

  • the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

  • We have no choice.

  • We have no choice.”

  • Your running mate said this week that the Muslim ban is no longer your position.

  • Is that correct?

  • And if it is, was it a mistake to have a religious test?

  • TRUMP: First of all, Captain Khan is an American hero, and if I were president at that time,

  • he would be alive today, because unlike her, who voted for the war without knowing what

  • she was doing, I would not have had our people in Iraq.

  • Iraq was disaster.

  • So he would have been alive today.

  • The Muslim ban is something that in some form has morphed into a extreme vetting from certain

  • areas of the world.

  • Hillary Clinton wants to allow hundreds of thousandsexcuse me.

  • Excuse me..

  • RADIATE: And why did it morph into that?

  • No, did youno, answer the question.

  • Do you still believe

  • TRUMP: Why don’t you interrupt her?

  • You interrupt me all the time.

  • RADDATZ: I do.

  • TRUMP: Why don’t you interrupt her?

  • RADIATE: Would you please explain whether or not the Muslim ban still stands?

  • TRUMP: It’s called extreme vetting.

  • We are going to areas like Syria where theyre coming in by the tens of thousands because

  • of Barack Obama.

  • And Hillary Clinton wants to allow a 550 percent increase over Obama.

  • People are coming into our country like we have no idea who they are, where they are

  • from, what their feelings about our country is, and she wants 550 percent more.

  • This is going to be the great Trojan horse of all time.

  • We have enough problems in this country.

  • I believe in building safe zones.

  • I believe in having other people pay for them, as an example, the Gulf states, who are not

  • carrying their weight, but they have nothing but money, and take care of people.

  • But I don’t want to have, with all the problems this country has and all of the problems that

  • you see going on, hundreds of thousands of people coming in from Syria when we know nothing

  • about them.

  • We know nothing about their values and we know nothing about their love for our country.

  • RADIATE: And, Secretary Clinton, let me ask you about that, because you have asked for

  • an increase from 10,000 to 65,000 Syrian refugees.

  • We know you want tougher vetting.

  • That’s not a perfect system.

  • So why take the risk of having those refugees come into the country?

  • CLINTON: Well, first of all, I will not let anyone into our country that I think poses

  • a risk to us.

  • But there are a lot of refugees, women and childrenthink of that picture we all

  • saw of that 4-year-old boy with the blood on his forehead because he’d been bombed

  • by the Russian and Syrian air forces.

  • There are children suffering in this catastrophic war, largely, I believe, because of Russian

  • aggression.

  • And we need to do our part.

  • We by no means are carrying anywhere near the load that Europe and others are.

  • But we will have vetting that is as tough as it needs to be from our professionals,

  • our intelligence experts and others.

  • But it is important for us as a policy, you know, not to say, as Donald has said, were

  • going to ban people based on a religion.

  • How do you do that?

  • We are a country founded on religious freedom and liberty.

  • How do we do what he has advocated without causing great distress within our own county?

  • Are we going to have religious tests when people fly into our country?

  • And how do we expect to be able to implement those?

  • So I thought that what he said was extremely unwise and even dangerous.

  • And indeed, you can look at the propaganda on a lot of the terrorists sites, and what

  • Donald Trump says about Muslims is used to recruit fighters, because they want to create

  • a war between us.

  • And the final thing I would say, this is the 10th or 12th time that he’s denied being

  • for the war in Iraq.

  • We have it on tape.

  • The entire press corps has looked at it.

  • It’s been debunked, but it never stops him from saying whatever he wants to say.

  • TRUMP: That’s not been debunked.

  • CLINTON: So, please

  • TRUMP: That has not been debunked.

  • CLINTON: … go to HillaryClinton.com and you can see it.

  • TRUMP: I was against — I was against the war in Iraq.

  • Has not been debunked.

  • And you voted for it.

  • And you shouldn’t have.

  • Well, I just want to say

  • RADIATE: There’s been lots of fact-checking on that.

  • I’d like to move on to an online question

  • TRUMP: Excuse me.

  • She just went about 25 seconds over her time.

  • RADIATE: She did not.

  • TRUMP: Could I just respond to this, please?

  • RADIATE: Very quickly, please.

  • TRUMP: Hillary Clinton, in terms of having people come into our country, we have many

  • criminal illegal aliens.

  • When we want to send them back to their country, their country says we don’t want them.

  • In some cases, theyre murderers, drug lords, drug problems.

  • And they don’t want them.

  • And Hillary Clinton, when she was secretary of state, said that’s OK, we can’t force

  • it into their country.

  • Let me tell you, I’m going to force them right back into their country.

  • Theyre murderers and some very bad people.

  • And I will tell you very strongly, when Bernie Sanders said she had bad judgment, she has

  • really bad judgment, because we are letting people into this country that are going to

  • cause problems and crime like youve never seen.

  • Were also letting drugs pour through our southern border at a record clip.

  • At a record clip.

  • And it shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

  • ICE just endorsed me.

  • Theyve never endorsed a presidential candidate.

  • The Border Patrol agents, 16,500, just recently endorsed me, and they endorsed me because

  • I understand the border.

  • She doesn’t.

  • She wants amnesty for everybody.

  • Come right in.

  • Come right over.

  • It’s a horrible thing she’s doing.

  • She’s got bad judgment, and honestly, so bad that she should never be president of

  • the United States.

  • That I can tell you.

  • RADIATE: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • I want to move on.

  • This next question from the public through the Bipartisan Open Debate Coalition’s online

  • forum, where Americans submitted questions that generated millions of votes.

  • This question involves WikiLeaks release of purported excerpts of Secretary Clinton’s

  • paid speeches, which she has refused to release, and one line in particular, in which you,

  • Secretary Clinton, purportedly say you need both a public and private position on certain

  • issues.

  • So, Tu (ph), from Virginia asks, is it OK for politicians to be two-faced?

  • Is it acceptable for a politician to have a private stance on issues?

  • Secretary Clinton, your two minutes.

  • CLINTON: Well, right.

  • As I recall, that was something I said about Abraham Lincoln after having seen the wonderful

  • Steven Spielberg movie calledLincoln.”

  • It was a master class watching President Lincoln get the Congress to approve the 13th Amendment.

  • It was principled, and it was strategic.

  • And I was making the point that it is hard sometimes to get the Congress to do what you

  • want to do and you have to keep working at it.

  • And, yes, President Lincoln was trying to convince some people, he used some arguments,

  • convincing other people, he used other arguments.

  • That was a great — I thought a great display of presidential leadership.

  • But, you know, let’s talk about what’s really going on here, Martha, because our

  • intelligence community just came out and said in the last few days that the Kremlin, meaning

  • Putin and the Russian government, are directing the attacks, the hacking on American accounts

  • to influence our election.

  • And WikiLeaks is part of that, as are other sites where the Russians hack information,

  • we don’t even know if it’s accurate information, and then they put it out.

  • We have never in the history of our country been in a situation where an adversary, a

  • foreign power, is working so hard to influence the outcome of the election.

  • And believe me, theyre not doing it to get me elected.

  • Theyre doing it to try to influence the election for Donald Trump.

  • CLINTON: Now, maybe because he has praised Putin, maybe because he says he agrees with

  • a lot of what Putin wants to do, maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow, I don’t

  • know the reasons.

  • But we deserve answers.

  • And we should demand that Donald release all of his tax returns so that people can see

  • what are the entanglements and the financial relationships that he has

  • RADIATE: Were going to get to that later.

  • Secretary Clinton, youre out of time.

  • CLINTON: … with the Russians and other foreign powers.

  • RADDATZ: Mr. Trump?

  • TRUMP: Well, I think I should respond, becauseso ridiculous.

  • Look, now she’s blamingshe got caught in a total lie.

  • Her papers went out to all her friends at the banks, Goldman Sachs and everybody else,

  • and she said thingsWikiLeaks that just came out.

  • And she lied.

  • Now she’s blaming the lie on the late, great Abraham Lincoln.

  • That’s one that I haven’t…

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • OK, Honest Abe, Honest Abe never lied.

  • That’s the good thing.

  • That’s the big difference between Abraham Lincoln and you.

  • That’s a big, big difference.

  • Were talking about some difference.

  • But as far as other elements of what she was saying, I don’t know Putin.

  • I think it would be great if we got along with Russia because we could fight ISIS together,

  • as an example.

  • But I don’t know Putin.

  • But I notice, anytime anything wrong happens, they like to say the Russians areshe

  • doesn’t know if it’s the Russians doing the hacking.

  • Maybe there is no hacking.

  • But they always blame Russia.

  • And the reason they blame Russia because they think theyre trying to tarnish me with

  • Russia.

  • I know nothing about Russia.

  • I know — I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia.

  • I don’t deal there.

  • I have no businesses there.

  • I have no loans from Russia.

  • I have a very, very great balance sheet, so great that when I did the Old Post Office

  • on Pennsylvania Avenue, the United States government, because of my balance sheet, which

  • they actually know very well, chose me to do the Old Post Office, between the White

  • House and Congress, chose me to do the Old Post Office.

  • One of the primary area things, in fact, perhaps the primary thing was balance sheet.

  • But I have no loans with Russia.

  • You could go to the United States government, and they would probably tell you that, because

  • they know my sheet very well in order to get that development I had to have.

  • Now, the taxes are a very simple thing.

  • As soon as I havefirst of all, I pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes.

  • Many of her friends took bigger deductions.

  • Warren Buffett took a massive deduction.

  • Soros, who’s a friend of hers, took a massive deduction.

  • Many of the people that are giving her all this money that she can do many more commercials

  • than me gave hertook massive deductions.

  • I pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes.

  • Butbut as soon as my routine audit is finished, I’ll release my returns.

  • I’ll be very proud to.

  • Theyre actually quite great.

  • RADIATE: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

  • COOPER: We want to turn, actually, to the topic of taxes.

  • We have a question from Spencer Maass.

  • Spencer?

  • QUESTION: Good evening.

  • My question is, what specific tax provisions will you change to ensure the wealthiest Americans

  • pay their fair share in taxes?

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.

  • TRUMP: Well, one thing I’d do is get rid of carried interest.

  • One of the greatest provisions for people like me, to be honest with you, I give up

  • a lot when I run, because I knock out the tax code.

  • And she could have done this years ago, by the way.

  • She’s a United Statesshe was a United States senator.

  • She complains that Donald Trump took advantage of the tax code.

  • Well, why didn’t she change it?

  • Why didn’t you change it when you were a senator?

  • The reason you didn’t is that all your friends take the same advantage that I do.

  • And I do.

  • You have provisions in the tax code that, frankly, we could change.

  • But you wouldn’t change it, because all of these people gave you the money so you

  • can take negative ads on Donald Trump.

  • Butand I say that about a lot of things.

  • You know, I’ve heard Hillary complaining about so many different things over the years.

  • “I wish you would have done this.”

  • But she’s been there for 30 years she’s been doing this stuff.

  • She never changed.

  • And she never will change.

  • She never will change.

  • Were getting rid of carried interest provisions.

  • I’m lowering taxes actually, because I think it’s so important for corporations, because

  • we have corporations leavingmassive corporations and little ones, little ones can’t form.

  • Were getting rid of regulations which goes hand in hand with the lowering of the taxes.

  • But were bringing the tax rate down from 35 percent to 15 percent.

  • Were cutting taxes for the middle class.

  • And I will tell you, we are cutting them big league for the middle class.

  • And I will tell you, Hillary Clinton is raising your taxes, folks.

  • You can look at me.

  • She’s raising your taxes really high.

  • And what that’s going to do is a disaster for the country.

  • But she is raising your taxes and I’m lowering your taxes.

  • That in itself is a big difference.

  • We are going to be thriving again.

  • We have no growth in this country.

  • There’s no growth.

  • If China has a GDP of 7 percent, it’s like a national catastrophe.

  • Were down at 1 percent.

  • And that’s, like, no growth.

  • And were going lower, in my opinion.

  • And a lot of it has to do with the fact that our taxes are so high, just about the highest

  • in the world.

  • And I’m bringing them down to one of the lower in the world.

  • And I think it’s so importantone of the most important things we can do.

  • But she is raising everybody’s taxes massively.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes.

  • The question was, what specific tax provisions will you change to ensure the wealthiest Americans

  • pay their fair share of taxes?

  • CLINTON: Well, everything youve heard just now from Donald is not true.

  • I’m sorry I have to keep saying this, but he lives in an alternative reality.

  • And it is sort of amusing to hear somebody who hasn’t paid federal income taxes in

  • maybe 20 years talking about what he’s going to do.

  • But I’ll tell you what he’s going to do.

  • His plan will give the wealthy and corporations the biggest tax cuts theyve ever had, more

  • than the Bush tax cuts by at least a factor of two.

  • Donald always takes care of Donald and people like Donald, and this would be a massive gift.

  • And, indeed, the way that he talks about his tax cuts would end up raising taxes on middle-class

  • families, millions of middle-class families.

  • Now, here’s what I want to do.

  • I have said nobody who makes less than $250,000 a yearand that’s the vast majority

  • of Americans as you knowwill have their taxes raised, because I think weve got

  • to go where the money is.

  • And the money is with people who have taken advantage of every single break in the tax

  • code.

  • And, yes, when I was a senator, I did vote to close corporate loopholes.

  • I voted to close, I think, one of the loopholes he took advantage of when he claimed a billion-dollar

  • loss that enabled him to avoid paying taxes.

  • I want to have a tax on people who are making a million dollars.

  • It’s called the Buffett rule.

  • Yes, Warren Buffett is the one who’s gone out and said somebody like him should not

  • be paying a lower tax rate than his secretary.

  • I want to have a surcharge on incomes above $5 million.

  • We have to make up for lost times, because I want to invest in you.

  • I want to invest in hard-working families.

  • And I think it’s been unfortunate, but it’s happened, that since the Great Recession,

  • the gains have all gone to the top.

  • And we need to reverse that.

  • People like Donald, who paid zero in taxes, zero for our vets, zero for our military,

  • zero for health and education, that is wrong.

  • COOPER: Thank you, Secretary.

  • CLINTON: And were going to make sure that nobody, no corporation, and no individual

  • can get away without paying his fair share to support our country.

  • COOPER: Thank you.

  • I want to give youMr. Trump, I want to give you the chance to respond.

  • I just wanted to tell our viewers what she’s referring to.

  • In the last month, taxes were the number-one issue on Facebook for the first time in the

  • campaign.

  • The New York Times published three pages of your 1995 tax returns.

  • They show you claimed a $916 million loss, which means you could have avoided paying

  • personal federal income taxes for years.

  • Youve said you pay state taxes, employee taxes, real estate taxes, property taxes.

  • You have not answered, though, a simple question.

  • Did you use that $916 million loss to avoid paying personal federal income taxes for years?

  • TRUMP: Of course I do.

  • Of course I do.

  • And so do all of her donors, or most of her donors.

  • I know many of her donors.

  • Her donors took massive tax write-offs.

  • COOPER: So have you (inaudible) personal federal income tax?

  • TRUMP: A lot of myexcuse me, Anderson — a lot of my write- off was depreciation

  • and other things that Hillary as a senator allowed.

  • And shell always allow it, because the people that give her all this money, they

  • want it.

  • That’s why.

  • See, I understand the tax code better than anybody that’s ever run for president.

  • Hillary Clintonand it’s extremely complexHillary Clinton has friends that want

  • all of these provisions, including they want the carried interest provision, which is very

  • important to Wall Street people.

  • But they really want the carried interest provision, which I believe Hillary’s leaving.

  • Very interesting why she’s leaving carried interest.

  • But I will tell you that, number one, I pay tremendous numbers of taxes.

  • I absolutely used it.

  • And so did Warren Buffett and so did George Soros and so did many of the other people

  • that Hillary is getting money from.

  • Now, I won’t mention their names, because theyre rich, but theyre not famous.

  • So we won’t make them famous.

  • COOPER: So can youcan you say how many years you have avoided paying personal federal

  • income taxes?

  • TRUMP: No, but I pay tax, and I pay federal tax, too.

  • But I have a write-off, a lot of it’s depreciation, which is a wonderful charge.

  • I love depreciation.

  • You know, she’s given it to us.

  • Hey, if she had a problemfor 30 years she’s been doing this, Anderson.

  • I say it all the time.

  • She talks about health care.

  • Why didn’t she do something about it?

  • She talks about taxes.

  • Why didn’t she do something about it?

  • She doesn’t do anything about anything other than talk.

  • With her, it’s all talk and no action.

  • COOPER: In the past

  • TRUMP: And, again, Bernie Sanders, it’s really bad judgment.

  • She has made bad judgment not only on taxes.

  • She’s made bad judgments on Libya, on Syria, on Iraq.

  • I mean, her and Obama, whether you like it or not, the way they got out of Iraq, the

  • vacuum theyve left, that’s why ISIS formed in the first place.

  • They started from that little area, and now theyre in 32 different nations, Hillary.

  • Congratulations.

  • Great job.

  • COOPER: Secretary — I want you to be able to respond, Secretary Clinton.

  • CLINTON: Well, here we go again.

  • I’ve been in favor of getting rid of carried interest for years, starting when I was a

  • senator from New York.

  • But that’s not the point here.

  • TRUMP: Why didn’t you do it?

  • Why didn’t you do it?

  • COOPER: Allow her to respond.

  • CLINTON: Because I was a senator with a Republican president.

  • TRUMP: Oh, really?

  • CLINTON: I will be the president and we will get it done.

  • That’s exactly right.

  • TRUMP: You could have done it, if you were an effectiveif you were an effective

  • senator, you could have done it.

  • If you were an effective senator, you could have done it.

  • But you were not an effective senator.

  • COOPER: Please allow her to respond.

  • She didn’t interrupt you.

  • CLINTON: You know, under our Constitution, presidents have something called veto power.

  • Look, he has now said repeatedly, “30 years this and 30 years that.”

  • So let me talk about my 30 years in public service.

  • I’m very glad to do so.

  • Eight million kids every year have health insurance, because when I was first lady I

  • worked with Democrats and Republicans to create the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

  • Hundreds of thousands of kids now have a chance to be adopted because I worked to change our

  • adoption and foster care system.

  • After 9/11, I went to work with Republican mayor, governor and president to rebuild New

  • York and to get health care for our first responders who were suffering because they

  • had run toward danger and gotten sickened by it.

  • Hundreds of thousands of National Guard and Reserve members have health care because of

  • work that I did, and children have safer medicines because I was able to pass a law that required

  • the dosing to be more carefully done.

  • When I was secretary of state, I went around the world advocating for our country, but

  • also advocating for women’s rights, to make sure that women had a decent chance to have

  • a better life and negotiated a treaty with Russia to lower nuclear weapons.

  • Four hundred pieces of legislation have my name on it as a sponsor or cosponsor when

  • I was a senator for eight years.

  • I worked very hard and was very proud to be re-elected in New York by an even bigger margin

  • than I had been elected the first time.

  • And as president, I will take that work, that bipartisan work, that finding common ground,

  • because you have to be able to get along with people to get things done in Washington.

  • COOPER: Thank you, secretary.

  • CLINTON: I’ve proven that I can, and for 30 years, I’ve produced results for people.

  • COOPER: Thank you, secretary.

  • RADIATE: Were going to move on to Syria.

  • Both of you have mentioned that.

  • TRUMP: She said a lot of things that were false.

  • I mean, I think we should be allowed to maybe

  • RADIATE: No, we canno, Mr. Trump, were going to go on.

  • This is about the audience.

  • TRUMP: Excuse me.

  • Because she has been a disaster as a senator.

  • A disaster.

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, were going to move on.

  • The heart-breaking video of a 5-year-old Syrian boy named Omran sitting in an ambulance after

  • being pulled from the rubble after an air strike in Aleppo focused the world’s attention

  • on the horrors of the war in Syria, with 136 million views on Facebook alone.

  • But there are much worse images coming out of Aleppo every day now, where in the past

  • few weeks alone, 400 people have been killed, at least 100 of them children.

  • Just days ago, the State Department called for a war crimes investigation of the Syrian

  • regime of Bashar al-Assad and its ally, Russia, for their bombardment of Aleppo.

  • So this next question comes through social media through Facebook.

  • Diane from Pennsylvania asks, if you were president, what would you do about Syria and

  • the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo?

  • Isn’t it a lot like the Holocaust when the U.S. waited too long before we helped?

  • Secretary Clinton, we will begin with your two minutes.

  • CLINTON: Well, the situation in Syria is catastrophic.

  • And every day that goes by, we see the results of the regime by Assad in partnership with

  • the Iranians on the ground, the Russians in the air, bombarding places, in particular

  • Aleppo, where there are hundreds of thousands of people, probably about 250,000 still left.

  • And there is a determined effort by the Russian air force to destroy Aleppo in order to eliminate

  • the last of the Syrian rebels who are really holding out against the Assad regime.

  • Russia hasn’t paid any attention to ISIS.

  • Theyre interested in keeping Assad in power.

  • So I, when I was secretary of state, advocated and I advocate today a no-fly zone and safe

  • zones.

  • We need some leverage with the Russians, because they are not going to come to the negotiating

  • table for a diplomatic resolution, unless there is some leverage over them.

  • And we have to work more closely with our partners and allies on the ground.

  • But I want to emphasize that what is at stake here is the ambitions and the aggressiveness

  • of Russia.

  • Russia has decided that it’s all in, in Syria.

  • And theyve also decided who they want to see become president of the United States,

  • too, and it’s not me.

  • I’ve stood up to Russia.

  • I’ve taken on Putin and others, and I would do that as president.

  • I think wherever we can cooperate with Russia, that’s fine.

  • And I did as secretary of state.

  • That’s how we got a treaty reducing nuclear weapons.

  • It’s how we got the sanctions on Iran that put a lid on the Iranian nuclear program without

  • firing a single shot.

  • So I would go to the negotiating table with more leverage than we have now.

  • But I do support the effort to investigate for crimes, war crimes committed by the Syrians

  • and the Russians and try to hold them accountable.

  • RADIATE: Thank you, Secretary Clinton.

  • Mr. Trump?

  • TRUMP: First of all, she was there as secretary of state with the so-called line in the sand,

  • which

  • CLINTON: No, I wasn’t.

  • I was gone.

  • I hate to interrupt you, but at some point

  • TRUMP: OK.

  • But you were in contactexcuse me.

  • You were

  • CLINTON: At some point, we need to do some fact-checking here.

  • TRUMP: You were in total contact with the White House, and perhaps, sadly, Obama probably

  • still listened to you.

  • I don’t think he would be listening to you very much anymore.

  • Obama draws the line in the sand.

  • It was laughed at all over the world what happened.

  • Now, with that being said, she talks tough against Russia.

  • But our nuclear program has fallen way behind, and theyve gone wild with their nuclear

  • program.

  • Not good.

  • Our government shouldn’t have allowed that to happen.

  • Russia is new in terms of nuclear.

  • We are old.

  • Were tired.

  • Were exhausted in terms of nuclear.

  • A very bad thing.

  • Now, she talks tough, she talks really tough against Putin and against Assad.

  • She talks in favor of the rebels.

  • She doesn’t even know who the rebels are.

  • You know, every time we take rebels, whether it’s in Iraq or anywhere else, were arming

  • people.

  • And you know what happens?

  • They end up being worse than the people.

  • Look at what she did in Libya with Gaddafi.

  • Gaddafi’s out.

  • It’s a mess.

  • And, by the way, ISIS has a good chunk of their oil.

  • I’m sure you probably have heard that.

  • It was a disaster.

  • Because the fact is, almost everything she’s done in foreign policy has been a mistake

  • and it’s been a disaster.

  • But if you look at Russia, just take a look at Russia, and look at what they did this

  • week, where I agree, she wasn’t there, but possibly she’s consulted.

  • We sign a peace treaty.

  • Everyone’s all excited.

  • Well, what Russia did with Assad and, by the way, with Iran, who you made very powerful

  • with the dumbest deal perhaps I’ve ever seen in the history of deal-making, the Iran

  • deal, with the $150 billion, with the $1.7 billion in cash, which is enough to fill up

  • this room.

  • But look at that deal.

  • Iran now and Russia are now against us.

  • So she wants to fight.

  • She wants to fight for rebels.

  • There’s only one problem.

  • You don’t even know who the rebels are.

  • So what’s the purpose?

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, your two minutes is up.

  • TRUMP: And one thing I have to say.

  • RADIATE: Your two minutes is up.

  • TRUMP: I don’t like Assad at all, but Assad is killing ISIS.

  • Russia is killing ISIS.

  • And Iran is killing ISIS.

  • And those three have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy.

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, let me repeat the question.

  • If you were president

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • what would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo?

  • And I want to remind you what your running mate said.

  • He said provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength and that if Russia

  • continues to be involved in air strikes along with the Syrian government forces of Assad,

  • the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike the military

  • targets of the Assad regime.

  • TRUMP: OK.

  • He and I haven’t spoken, and I disagree.

  • I disagree.

  • RADIATE: You disagree with your running mate?

  • TRUMP: I think you have to knock out ISIS.

  • Right now, Syria is fighting ISIS.

  • We have people that want to fight both at the same time.

  • But Syria is no longer Syria.

  • Syria is Russia and it’s Iran, who she made strong and Kerry and Obama made into a very

  • powerful nation and a very rich nation, very, very quickly, very, very quickly.

  • I believe we have to get ISIS.

  • We have to worry about ISIS before we can get too much more involved.

  • She had a chance to do something with Syria.

  • They had a chance.

  • And that was the line.

  • And she didn’t.

  • RADIATE: What do you think will happen if Aleppo falls?

  • TRUMP: I think Aleppo is a disaster, humanitarian-wise.

  • RADIATE: What do you think will happen if it falls?

  • TRUMP: I think that it basically has fallen.

  • OK?

  • It basically has fallen.

  • Let me tell you something.

  • You take a look at Mosul.

  • The biggest problem I have with the stupidity of our foreign policy, we have Mosul.

  • They think a lot of the ISIS leaders are in Mosul.

  • So we have announcements coming out of Washington and coming out of Iraq, we will be attacking

  • Mosul in three weeks or four weeks.

  • Well, all of these bad leaders from ISIS are leaving Mosul.

  • Why can’t they do it quietly?

  • Why can’t they do the attack, make it a sneak attack, and after the attack is made,

  • inform the American public that weve knocked out the leaders, weve had a tremendous

  • success?

  • People leave.

  • Why do they have to say were going to be attacking Mosul within the next four to six

  • weeks, which is what theyre saying?

  • How stupid is our country?

  • RADIATE: There are sometimes reasons the military does that.

  • Psychological warfare.

  • TRUMP: I can’t think of any.

  • I can’t think of any.

  • And I’m pretty good at it.

  • RADIATE: It might be to help get civilians out.

  • TRUMP: And we have General Flynn.

  • And we havelook, I have 200 generals and admirals who endorsed me.

  • I have 21 Congressional Medal of Honor recipients who endorsed me.

  • We talk about it all the time.

  • They understand, why can’t they do something secretively, where they go in and they knock

  • out the leadership?

  • Howwhy would these people stay there?

  • I’ve been reading now

  • RADIATE: Tell me what your strategy is.

  • TRUMP: … for weeks — I’ve been reading now for weeks about Mosul, that it’s the

  • harbor of whereyou know, between Raqqa and Mosul, this is where they think the ISIS

  • leaders are.

  • Why would they be sayingtheyre not staying there anymore.

  • Theyre gone.

  • Because everybody’s talking about how Iraq, which is us with our leadership, goes in to

  • fight Mosul.

  • Now, with these 200 admirals and generals, they can’t believe it.

  • All I say is this.

  • General George Patton, General Douglas MacArthur are spinning in their grave at the stupidity

  • of what were doing in the Middle East.

  • RADIATE: I’m going to go to Secretary Clinton.

  • Secretary Clinton, you want Assad to go.

  • You advocated arming rebels, but it looks like that may be too late for Aleppo.

  • You talk about diplomatic efforts.

  • Those have failed.

  • Cease-fires have failed.

  • Would you introduce the threat of U.S. military force beyond a no-fly zone against the Assad

  • regime to back up diplomacy?

  • CLINTON: I would not use American ground forces in Syria.

  • I think that would be a very serious mistake.

  • I don’t think American troops should be holding territory, which is what they would

  • have to do as an occupying force.

  • I don’t think that is a smart strategy.

  • I do think the use of special forces, which were using, the use of enablers and trainers

  • in Iraq, which has had some positive effects, are very much in our interests, and so I do

  • support what is happening, but let me just

  • RADIATE: But what would you do differently than President Obama is doing?

  • CLINTON: Well, Martha, I hope that by the time I — if I’m fortunate

  • TRUMP: Everything.

  • CLINTON: I hope by the time I am president that we will have pushed ISIS out of Iraq.

  • I do think that there is a good chance that we can take Mosul.

  • And, you know, Donald says he knows more about ISIS than the generals.

  • No, he doesn’t.

  • There are a lot of very important planning going on, and some of it is to signal to the

  • Sunnis in the area, as well as Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, that we all need to be in this.

  • And that takes a lot of planning and preparation.

  • I would go after Baghdadi.

  • I would specifically target Baghdadi, because I think our targeting of Al Qaida leaders

  • and I was involved in a lot of those operations, highly classified onesmade a difference.

  • So I think that could help.

  • I would also consider arming the Kurds.

  • The Kurds have been our best partners in Syria, as well as Iraq.

  • And I know there’s a lot of concern about that in some circles, but I think they should

  • have the equipment they need so that Kurdish and Arab fighters on the ground are the principal

  • way that we take Raqqa after pushing ISIS out of Iraq.

  • RADIATE: Thank you very much.

  • Were going to move on

  • TRUMP: You know what’s funny?

  • She went over a minute over, and you don’t stop her.

  • When I go one second over, it’s like a big deal.

  • RADIATE: You had many answers.

  • TRUMP: It’s reallyit’s really very interesting.

  • COOPER: Weve got a question over here from James Carter.

  • Mr. Carter?

  • QUESTION: My question is, do you believe you can be a devoted president to all the people

  • in the United States?

  • COOPER: That question begins for Mr. Trump.

  • TRUMP: Absolutely.

  • I mean, she calls our people deplorable, a large group, and irredeemable.

  • I will be a president for all of our people.

  • And I’ll be a president that will turn our inner cities around and will give strength

  • to people and will give economics to people and will bring jobs back.

  • Because NAFTA, signed by her husband, is perhaps the greatest disaster trade deal in the history

  • of the world.

  • Not in this country.

  • It stripped us of manufacturing jobs.

  • We lost our jobs.

  • We lost our money.

  • We lost our plants.

  • It is a disaster.

  • And now she wants to sign TPP, even though she says now she’s for it.

  • She called it the gold standard.

  • And by the way, at the last debate, she lied, because it turned out that she did say the

  • gold standard and she said she didn’t say it.

  • They actually said that she lied.

  • OK?

  • And she lied.

  • But she’s lied about a lot of things.

  • TRUMP: I would be a president for all of the people, African- Americans, the inner cities.

  • Devastating what’s happening to our inner cities.

  • She’s been talking about it for years.

  • As usual, she talks about it, nothing happens.

  • She doesn’t get it done.

  • Same with the Latino Americans, the Hispanic Americans.

  • The same exact thing.

  • They talk, they don’t get it done.

  • You go into the inner cities andyou see it’s 45 percent poverty.

  • African- Americans now 45 percent poverty in the inner cities.

  • The education is a disaster.

  • Jobs are essentially nonexistent.

  • I mean, it’s — you know, and I’ve been saying at big speeches where I have 20,000

  • and 30,000 people, what do you have to lose?

  • It can’t get any worse.

  • And she’s been talking about the inner cities for 25 years.

  • Nothing’s going to ever happen.

  • Let me tell you, if she’s president of the United States, nothing’s going to happen.

  • It’s just going to be talk.

  • And all of her friends, the taxes we were talking about, and I would just get it by

  • osmosis.

  • She’s not doing any me favors.

  • But by doing all the othersfavors, she’s doing me favors.

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, thank you.

  • TRUMP: But I will tell you, she’s all talk.

  • It doesn’t get done.

  • All you have to do is take a look at her Senate run.

  • Take a look at upstate New York.

  • COOPER: Your two minutes is up.

  • Secretary Clinton, two minutes?

  • TRUMP: It turned out to be a disaster.

  • COOPER: You have two minutes, Secretary Clinton.

  • CLINTON: Well, 67 percent of the people voted to re-elect me when I ran for my second term,

  • and I was very proud and very humbled by that.

  • Mr. Carter, I have tried my entire life to do what I can to support children and families.

  • You know, right out of law school, I went to work for the Children’s Defense Fund.

  • And Donald talks a lot about, you know, the 30 years I’ve been in public service.

  • I’m proud of that.

  • You know, I started off as a young lawyer working against discrimination against African-American

  • children in schools and in the criminal justice system.

  • I worked to make sure that kids with disabilities could get a public education, something that

  • I care very much about.

  • I have worked with Latinosone of my first jobs in politics was down in south Texas registering

  • Latino citizens to be able to vote.

  • So I have a deep devotion, to use your absolutely correct word, to making sure that an every

  • American feels like he or she has a place in our country.

  • And I think when you look at the letters that I get, a lot of people are worried that maybe

  • they wouldn’t have a place in Donald Trump’s America.

  • They write me, and one woman wrote me about her son, Felix.

  • She adopted him from Ethiopia when he was a toddler.

  • He’s 10 years old now.

  • This is the only one country he’s ever known.

  • And he listens to Donald on TV and he said to his mother one day, will he send me back

  • to Ethiopia if he gets elected?

  • You know, children listen to what is being said.

  • To go back to the very, very first question.

  • And there’s a lot of fearin fact, teachers and parents are calling it the Trump effect.

  • Bullying is up.

  • A lot of people are feeling, you know, uneasy.

  • A lot of kids are expressing their concerns.

  • So, first and foremost, I will do everything I can to reach out to everybody.

  • COOPER: Your time, Secretary Clinton.

  • CLINTON: Democrats, Republicans, independents, people across our country.

  • If you don’t vote for me, I still want to be your president.

  • COOPER: Your two minutes is up.

  • CLINTON: I want to be the best president I can be for every American.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, your two minutes is up.

  • I want to follow up on something that Donald Trump actually said to you, a comment you

  • made last month.

  • You said that half of Donald Trump’s supporters are, quote, “deplorable, racist, sexist,

  • homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic.”

  • You later said you regretted saying half.

  • You didn’t express regret for using the termdeplorable.”

  • To Mr. Carter’s question, how can you unite a country if youve written off tens of

  • millions of Americans?

  • CLINTON: Well, within hours I said that I was sorry about the way I talked about that,

  • because my argument is not with his supporters.

  • It’s with him and with the hateful and divisive campaign that he has run, and the inciting

  • of violence at his rallies, and the very brutal kinds of comments about not just women, but

  • all Americans, all kinds of Americans.

  • And what he has said about African-Americans and Latinos, about Muslims, about POWs, about

  • immigrants, about people with disabilities, he’s never apologized for.

  • And so I do think that a lot of the tone and tenor that he has said — I’m proud of

  • the campaign that Bernie Sanders and I ran.

  • We ran a campaign based on issues, not insults.

  • And he is supporting me 100 percent.

  • COOPER: Thank you.

  • CLINTON: Because we talked about what we wanted to do.

  • We might have had some differences, and we had a lot of debates

  • COOPER: Thank you, Secretary.

  • TRUMP: … but we believed that we could make the country better.

  • And I was proud of that.

  • COOPER: I want to give you a minute to respond.

  • TRUMP: We have a divided nation.

  • We have a very divided nation.

  • You look at Charlotte.

  • You look at Baltimore.

  • You look at the violence that’s taking place in the inner cities, Chicago, you take a look

  • at Washington, D.C.

  • We have an increase in murder within our cities, the biggest in 45 years.

  • We have a divided nation, because people like herand believe me, she has tremendous

  • hate in her heart.

  • And when she said deplorable, she meant it.

  • And when she said irredeemable, theyre irredeemable, you didn’t mention that, but

  • when she said theyre irredeemable, to me that might have been even worse.

  • COOPER: She said some of them are irredeemable.

  • TRUMP: She’s got tremendousshe’s got tremendous hatred.

  • And this country cannot take another four years of Barack Obama, and that’s what youre

  • getting with her.

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, let me follow up with you.

  • In 2008, you wrote in one of your books that the most important characteristic of a good

  • leader is discipline.

  • You said, if a leader doesn’t have it, quote, “he or she won’t be one for very long.”

  • In the days after the first debate, you sent out a series of tweets from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m.,

  • including one that told people to check out a sex tape.

  • Is that the discipline of a good leader?

  • TRUMP: No, there wasn’t check out a sex tape.

  • It was just take a look at the person that she built up to be this wonderful Girl Scout

  • who was no Girl Scout.

  • COOPER: You mentioned sex tape.

  • TRUMP: By the way, just so you understand, when she said 3 o’clock in the morning,

  • take a look at Benghazi.

  • She said who is going to answer the call at 3 o’clock in the morning?

  • Guess what?

  • She didn’t answer it, because when Ambassador Stevens

  • COOPER: The question is, is that the discipline of a good leader?

  • TRUMP: … 600 — wait a minute, Anderson, 600 times.

  • Well, she said she was awake at 3 o’clock in the morning, and she also sent a tweet

  • out at 3 o’clock in the morning, but I won’t even mention that.

  • But she said shell be awake.

  • Who’s goingthe famous thing, were going to answer our call at 3 o’clock in

  • the morning.

  • Guess what happened?

  • Ambassador StevensAmbassador Stevens sent 600 requests for help.

  • And the only one she talked to was Sidney Blumenthal, who’s her friend and not a good

  • guy, by the way.

  • So, you know, she shouldn’t be talking about that.

  • Now, tweeting happens to be a modern day form of communication.

  • I mean, you can like it or not like it.

  • I have, between Facebook and Twitter, I have almost 25 million people.

  • It’s a very effective way of communication.

  • So you can put it down, but it is a very effective form of communication.

  • I’m not un-proud of it, to be honest with you.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, does Mr. Trump have the discipline to be a good leader?

  • CLINTON: No.

  • TRUMP: I’m shocked to hear that.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • CLINTON: Well, it’s not only my opinion.

  • It’s the opinion of many others, national security experts, Republicans, former Republican

  • members of Congress.

  • But it’s in part because those of us who have had the great privilege of seeing this

  • job up close and know how difficult it is, and it’s not just because I watched my husband

  • take a $300 billion deficit and turn it into a $200 billion surplus, and 23 million new

  • jobs were created, and incomes went up for everybody.

  • Everybody.

  • African-American incomes went up 33 percent.

  • And it’s not just because I worked with George W. Bush after 9/11, and I was very

  • proud that when I told him what the city needed, what we needed to recover, he said youve

  • got it, and he never wavered.

  • He stuck with me.

  • And I have worked and I admire President Obama.

  • He inherited the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

  • That was a terrible time for our country.

  • COOPER: We have to move along.

  • CLINTON: Nine million people lost their jobs.

  • RADIATE: Secretary Clinton, we have to

  • CLINTON: Five million homes were lost.

  • RADIATE: Secretary Clinton, were moving.

  • CLINTON: And $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out.

  • We are back on the right track.

  • He would send us back into recession with his tax plans that benefit the wealthiest

  • of Americans.

  • RADIATE: Secretary Clinton, we are moving to an audience question.

  • Were almost out of time.

  • We have another

  • TRUMP: We have the slowest growth since 1929.

  • RADIATE: Were moving to an audience question.

  • TRUMP: It isour country has the slowest growth and jobs are a disaster.

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, Secretary Clinton, we want to get to the audience.

  • Thank you very much both of you.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • We have another audience question.

  • Beth Miller has a question for both candidates.

  • QUESTION: Good evening.

  • Perhaps the most important aspect of this election is the Supreme Court justice.

  • What would you prioritize as the most important aspect of selecting a Supreme Court justice?

  • RADIATE: We begin with your two minutes, Secretary Clinton.

  • CLINTON: Thank you.

  • Well, youre right.

  • This is one of the most important issues in this election.

  • I want to appoint Supreme Court justices who understand the way the world really works,

  • who have real-life experience, who have not just been in a big law firm and maybe clerked

  • for a judge and then gotten on the bench, but, you know, maybe they tried some more

  • cases, they actually understand what people are up against.

  • Because I think the current court has gone in the wrong direction.

  • And so I would want to see the Supreme Court reverse Citizens United and get dark, unaccountable

  • money out of our politics.

  • Donald doesn’t agree with that.

  • I would like the Supreme Court to understand that voting rights are still a big problem

  • in many parts of our country, that we don’t always do everything we can to make it possible

  • for people of color and older people and young people to be able to exercise their franchise.

  • I want a Supreme Court that will stick with Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to choose,

  • and I want a Supreme Court that will stick with marriage equality.

  • Now, Donald has put forth the names of some people that he would consider.

  • And among the ones that he has suggested are people who would reverse Roe v. Wade and reverse

  • marriage equality.

  • I think that would be a terrible mistake and would take us backwards.

  • I want a Supreme Court that doesn’t always side with corporate interests.

  • I want a Supreme Court that understands because youre wealthy and you can give more money

  • to something doesn’t mean you have any more rights or should have any more rights than

  • anybody else.

  • So I have very clear views about what I want to see to kind of change the balance on the

  • Supreme Court.

  • And I regret deeply that the Senate has not done its job and they have not permitted a

  • vote on the person that President Obama, a highly qualified person, theyve not given

  • him a vote to be able to be have the full complement of nine Supreme Court justices.

  • I think that was a dereliction of duty.

  • I hope that they will see their way to doing it, but if I am so fortunate enough as to

  • be president, I will immediately move to make sure that we fill that, we have nine justices

  • that get to work on behalf of our people.

  • RADIATE: Thank you, Secretary Clinton.

  • Thank you.

  • Youre out of time.

  • Mr. Trump?

  • TRUMP: Justice Scalia, great judge, died recently.

  • And we have a vacancy.

  • I am looking to appoint judges very much in the mold of Justice Scalia.

  • I’m looking for judgesand I’ve actually picked 20 of them so that people would see,

  • highly respected, highly thought of, and actually very beautifully reviewed by just about everybody.

  • But people that will respect the Constitution of the United States.

  • And I think that this is so important.

  • Also, the Second Amendment, which is totally under siege by people like Hillary Clinton.

  • Theyll respect the Second Amendment and what it stands for, what it represents.

  • So important to me.

  • Now, Hillary mentioned something about contributions just so you understand.

  • So I will have in my race more than $100 million put inof my money, meaning I’m not

  • taking all of this big money from all of these different corporations like she’s doing.

  • What I ask is this.

  • So I’m putting in more thanby the time it’s finished, I’ll have more than $100

  • million invested.

  • Pretty much self-funding money.

  • Were raising money for the Republican Party, and were doing tremendously on the small

  • donations, $61 average or so.

  • I ask Hillary, why doesn’t — she made $250 million by being in office.

  • She used the power of her office to make a lot of money.

  • Why isn’t she funding, not for $100 million, but why don’t you put $10 million or $20

  • million or $25 million or $30 million into your own campaign?

  • It’s $30 million less for special interests that will tell you exactly what to do and

  • it would really, I think, be a nice sign to the American public.

  • Why aren’t you putting some money in?

  • You have a lot of it.

  • Youve made a lot of it because of the fact that youve been in office.

  • Made a lot of it while you were secretary of state, actually.

  • So why aren’t you putting money into your own campaign?

  • I’m just curious.

  • CLINTON: Well

  • (CROSSTALK)

  • RADIATE: Thank you very much.

  • Were going to get on to one more question.

  • CLINTON: The question was about the Supreme Court.

  • And I just want to quickly say, I respect the Second Amendment.

  • But I believe there should be comprehensive background checks, and we should close the

  • gun show loophole, and close the online loophole.

  • COOPER: Thank you.

  • RADIATE: We havewe have one more question, Mrs. Clinton.

  • CLINTON: We have to save as many lives as we possibly can.

  • COOPER: We have one more question from Ken Bone about energy policy.

  • Ken?

  • QUESTION: What steps will your energy policy take to meet our energy needs, while at the

  • same time remaining environmentally friendly and minimizing job loss for fossil power plant

  • workers?

  • COOPER: Mr. Trump, two minutes?

  • TRUMP: Absolutely.

  • I think it’s such a great question, because energy is under siege by the Obama administration.

  • Under absolutely siege.

  • The EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, is killing these energy companies.

  • And foreign companies are now coming in buying ourbuying so many of our different plants

  • and then re-jiggering the plant so that they can take care of their oil.

  • We are killingabsolutely killing our energy business in this country.

  • Now, I’m all for alternative forms of energy, including wind, including solar, et cetera.

  • But we need much more than wind and solar.

  • And you look at our miners.

  • Hillary Clinton wants to put all the miners out of business.

  • There is a thing called clean coal.

  • Coal will last for 1,000 years in this country.

  • Now we have natural gas and so many other things because of technology.

  • We have unbelievablewe have found over the last seven years, we have found tremendous

  • wealth right under our feet.

  • So good.

  • Especially when you have $20 trillion in debt.

  • I will bring our energy companies back.

  • Theyll be able to compete.

  • Theyll make money.

  • Theyll pay off our national debt.

  • Theyll pay off our tremendous budget deficits, which are tremendous.

  • But we are putting our energy companies out of business.

  • We have to bring back our workers.

  • You take a look at what’s happening to steel and the cost of steel and China dumping vast

  • amounts of steel all over the United States, which essentially is killing our steelworkers

  • and our steel companies.

  • We have to guard our energy companies.

  • We have to make it possible.

  • The EPA is so restrictive that they are putting our energy companies out of business.

  • And all you have to do is go to a great place like West Virginia or places like Ohio, which

  • is phenomenal, or places like Pennsylvania and you see what theyre doing to the people,

  • miners and others in the energy business.

  • It’s a disgrace.

  • COOPER: Your time is up.

  • Thank you.

  • TRUMP: It’s an absolute disgrace.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton, two minutes.

  • CLINTON: And actuallywell, that was very interesting.

  • First of all, China is illegally dumping steel in the United States and Donald Trump is buying

  • it to build his buildings, putting steelworkers and American steel plants out of business.

  • That’s something that I fought against as a senator and that I would have a trade prosecutor

  • to make sure that we don’t get taken advantage of by China on steel or anything else.

  • You know, because it sounds like youre in the business or youre aware of people

  • in the businessyou know that we are now for the first time ever energy-independent.

  • We are not dependent upon the Middle East.

  • But the Middle East still controls a lot of the prices.

  • So the price of oil has been way down.

  • And that has had a damaging effect on a lot of the oil companies, right?

  • We are, however, producing a lot of natural gas, which serves as a bridge to more renewable

  • fuels.

  • And I think that’s an important transition.

  • Weve got to remain energy-independent.

  • It gives us much more power and freedom than to be worried about what goes on in the Middle

  • East.

  • We have enough worries over there without having to worry about that.

  • So I have a comprehensive energy policy, but it really does include fighting climate change,

  • because I think that is a serious problem.

  • And I support moving toward more clean, renewable energy as quickly as we can, because I think

  • we can be the 21st century clean energy superpower and create millions of new jobs and businesses.

  • But I also want to be sure that we don’t leave people behind.

  • That’s why I’m the only candidate from the very beginning of this campaign who had

  • a plan to help us revitalize coal country, because those coal miners and their fathers

  • and their grandfathers, they dug that coal out.

  • A lot of them lost their lives.

  • They were injured, but they turned the lights on and they powered their factories.

  • I don’t want to walk away from them.

  • So weve got to do something for them.

  • COOPER: Secretary Clinton

  • CLINTON: But the price of coal is down worldwide.

  • So we have to look at this comprehensively.

  • COOPER: Your time is up.

  • CLINTON: And that’s exactly what I have proposed.

  • I hope you will go to HillaryClinton.com and look at my entire policy.

  • COOPER: Time is up.

  • We have time for one more

  • RADIATE: We have

  • COOPER: One more audience question.

  • RADIATE: Weve sneaked in one more question, and it comes from Karl Becker.

  • QUESTION: Good evening.

  • My question to both of you is, regardless of the current rhetoric, would either of you

  • name one positive thing that you respect in one another?

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • RADIATE: Mr. Trump, would you like to go first?

  • CLINTON: Well, I certainly will, because I think that’s a very fair and important question.

  • Look, I respect his children.

  • His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald.

  • I don’t agree with nearly anything else he says or does, but I do respect that.

  • And I think that is something that as a mother and a grandmother is very important to me.

  • So I believe that this election has become in part soso conflict-oriented, so intense

  • because there’s a lot at stake.

  • This is not an ordinary time, and this is not an ordinary election.

  • We are going to be choosing a president who will set policy for not just four or eight

  • years, but because of some of the important decisions we have to make here at home and

  • around the world, from the Supreme Court to energy and so much else, and so there is a

  • lot at stake.

  • It’s one of the most consequential elections that weve had.

  • And that’s why I’ve tried to put forth specific policies and plans, trying to get

  • it off of the personal and put it on to what it is I want to do as president.

  • And that’s why I hope people will check on that for themselves so that they can see

  • that, yes, I’ve spent 30 years, actually maybe a little more, working to help kids

  • and families.

  • And I want to take all that experience to the White House and do that every single day.

  • RADDATZ: Mr. Trump?

  • TRUMP: Well, I consider her statement about my children to be a very nice compliment.

  • I don’t know if it was meant to be a compliment, but it is a great — I’m very proud of

  • my children.

  • And theyve done a wonderful job, and theyve been wonderful, wonderful kids.

  • So I consider that a compliment.

  • I will say this about Hillary.

  • She doesn’t quit.

  • She doesn’t give up.

  • I respect that.

  • I tell it like it is.

  • She’s a fighter.

  • I disagree with much of what she’s fighting for.

  • I do disagree with her judgment in many cases.

  • But she does fight hard, and she doesn’t quit, and she doesn’t give up.

  • And I consider that to be a very good trait.

  • RADIATE: Thanks to both of you.

  • COOPER: We want to thank both the candidates.

  • We want to thank the university here.

  • This concludes the town hall meeting.

  • Our thanks to the candidates, the commission, Washington University, and to everybody who

  • watched.

  • RADIATE: Please tune in on October 19th for the final presidential debate that will take

  • place at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

  • Good night, everyone.

  • IFILL: And that concludes this second presidential debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

  • Joining us here in Washington for some analysis are syndicated columnist Mark Shields, New

  • York Times columnist David Brooks, and Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report, as we

  • watch the candidates' families join them on stage after ending what -- a fairly nice moment

  • where they -- someone was able to wring compliment out of them as opposed way this debate began

  • -- Mark Shields.

  • SHIELDS: Karl Becker (ph), thank you very much for the one pleasant moment of the evening.

  • That question was what good quality in the other person.

  • Brought out the one consistently positive narrative in the whole evening.

  • They didn't shake hands at the beginning, apparently knowing what was to follow.

  • It was a pretty ugly evening.

  • And not elevating, not inspiring.

  • And I just thought Trump was substance free.

  • And anybody does not have anything to say on health care 18 months after the race began,

  • and he has nothing but a string of adjectives.

  • And I just thought Hillary Clinton's answers on the emails was totally inadequate.

  • And she has no position on Syria.

  • IFILL: Of course, we were watching Donald Trump with his children.

  • Donald Junior, and Eric Trump, and Ivanka, and Melania, his wife, standing over to the

  • side greeting each other.

  • And Hillary Clinton with her family as well.

  • WOODRUFF: Amy Walter, we -- this evening started out with the Donald Trump videotape, audio

  • tape from last Friday.

  • Did he do anything in this debate to take that cloud -- to lift that cloud off of him?

  • WALTER: You know, in the last debate it was Donald Trump who was on defense the entire

  • time.

  • And Hillary Clinton was on offense.

  • She got under his skin.

  • He went down rabbit holes.

  • He lost his train of thought.

  • This debate, for all the talk about how he's not prepared and he doesn't like to go and

  • do these mock sessions, he was very prepared.

  • And he came in absolutely focused on making the debate about Hillary Clinton.

  • And he pushed her and pushed and pushed the entire time.

  • He interrupted, he stalked her at points, walking around the stage, but he wanted to

  • make sure that no one was going to walk away from this debate saying he didn't take his

  • opportunities to raise the questions about Benghazi, about emails, about any other issue

  • that he didn't raise in the first debate.

  • But to the question, Judy, of whether it matters or not, I do not believe that it does.

  • I think that what he also did, which is what I feel like we've been sitting around this

  • table talking about since this summer is he's talking to the 40 percent of the people who

  • are already with him.

  • That's the base, who show up at his rallies, who he loves talking about, he loves talking

  • to, will be very happy with this debate performance.

  • But if you are in suburban Philadelphia, if you are an independent voter, if you are a

  • woman, the voters right now that he needs, he's not winning, I don't think they move

  • over into his column.

  • IFILL: It was a long 90 minutes, David Brooks, but you know, this began with what Paul Ryan

  • this weekend called the elephant in the room, which is the question about the videotape,

  • the "Access Hollywood" videotape.

  • And after about -- I counted four-and-a-half minutes of niceties, they went immediately

  • to that.

  • Let's listen to that for a moment, then I want you to talk about it on the other side.

  • (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

  • TRUMP: This was locker room talk.

  • I'm not proud of it.

  • I apologized to my family.

  • I apologized to the American people.

  • Certainly I'm not proud of it.

  • CLINTON: What we all saw and heard on Friday was Donald talking about women.

  • What he thinks about women.

  • What he does to women.

  • And he has said that the video doesn't represent who he is.

  • But I think it's clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is.

  • TRUMP: It's just words, folks.

  • It's just words.

  • Those words I've been hearing them for many years.

  • (END VIDEO CLIP)

  • IFILL: Just words, folks.

  • Just words, David.

  • BROOKS: Well, that was her best answer of the night.

  • But it was one of her few good answers I thought.

  • This is a guy with vulnerabilities coming out of every angle, and she missed a lot of

  • them.

  • This is a guy who just lost 40 House congressional Republicans, she can't point that out that

  • his campaign is in free fall?

  • I thought he says things that we've never heard before.

  • Saying she has hate in her heart.

  • What presidential candidate has said that?

  • That he wants to appoint a special prosecutor?

  • We're in uncharted territory.

  • IFILL: That she should be in jail, that's she devil.

  • BROOKS: But I thought the bottom line, how people and especially some of the swing sweaters,

  • if there are any left, that Amy talked about, will look at the mafioso-type stalking, how

  • they look at that body language will determine a lot of their reactions.

  • But my bottom line right now for this debate is he halted the free fall.

  • That it will be -- the Republicans who were leaving him will stop leaving him.

  • Because he will have rallied the people that really dislike Hillary Clinton, he took it

  • to her, he took it to her with energy and focus, and so at least he has not won anybody

  • else over, but he stopped the slide.

  • WOODRUFF: So, Mark Shields, he stopped the bleeding, stopped the departure of these Republicans?

  • SHIELDS: Well, he stopped a Republican revolt that Dave is talking about, 40 Republican

  • members.

  • And one after -- I mean, John Thune of South Dakota, third in Republican leadership in

  • the Senate, I mean, these are not people who are -- the nervous nellies who bail on Republicans

  • when they're in trouble.

  • That is what I think, he was talking to their constituencies, the constituencies of the

  • Republicans who are going to be on the phone tomorrow, the House Republicans.

  • And say, well, gee, do I really want to alienate?

  • Do I -- can we just pretend that this didn't happen?

  • I mean, this is a man, this is the first time a major party nominee has a billionaire running

  • for president who just admitted in a debate that he paid no federal income tax for 20

  • years.

  • I mean, and just kind of glossed over it.

  • He's a man without an embarrassment gene.

  • I was amazed he showed up tonight and he just kind of glossed over what -- that whole tape.

  • I mean, he is really something we've never seen before in a presidential candidate.

  • IFILL: The NEWSHOUR's Lisa Desjardins is upstairs in our newsroom, she has been keeping -- I'm

  • sorry, I'm going to the wrong person.

  • We're going to NEWSHOUR correspondent John Yang who is actually at Washington University

  • in St. Louis, the site of tonight's debate.

  • He's talking to people representing both campaigns.

  • Hey, John.

  • JOHN YANG, NEWSHOUR CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Gwen.

  • This is -- we're here with Boris Epshteyn, who is the senior adviser to the Trump campaign.

  • Mr. Epshteyn, what did Donald Trump do tonight to stop this slide he has had over the past

  • two weeks?

  • BORIS EPSHTEYN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: It was a strong night.

  • He was in control.

  • He was determined.

  • He was presidential.

  • He won this debate fair and square.

  • It was a home run even though moderators did not treat him fairly at all, they interrupted

  • him about 25 more times than they interrupted Hillary Clinton.

  • But Mr. Trump won this debate hands down, and will move on now, will go to the next

  • debate in Las Vegas where he will do great, and then win on November 8th.

  • YANG: How do you think did he on the question about foreign policy, the question about Syria?

  • He was asked about what his strategy would be in Syria and on Aleppo, he disagreed with

  • Mike Pence, his running mate.

  • He said he hadn't spoken to Mike Pence.

  • Are we seeing some daylight opening up between -- on this ticket?

  • EPSHTEYN: Here is bottom line.

  • Mr. Trump has been very consistent.

  • And from the beginning that we need to fight is ISIS, deal with Assad after.

  • We need to defeat ISIS.

  • Eighty percent of people killed by ISIS have been killed in the last three years.

  • That needs to stop.

  • ISIS has to be defeated.

  • And the Trump-Pence ticket is absolutely united on that.

  • What Governor Pence was talking about was the safe zones, making sure that Syrians are

  • protected in their own country.

  • And that is absolutely a priority for the Trump-Pence ticket as well.

  • YANG: But when he was asked about the consequences would be if Aleppo fell, he turned to Mosul.

  • He didn't seem to discuss Syrian and Aleppo itself.

  • EPSHTEYN: Here is the key issue here, right?

  • The key issue is that because of the failed policies of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama,

  • Syria is effectively a failed state.

  • Libya is a failed state.

  • So, what the Clinton campaign is trying to do is to distract Americans from realizing

  • that Hillary Clinton is the one at fault for what is going on in Syria.

  • So how could she possibly fix it?

  • What Donald Trump will do is ensure safe zones in Syria so Syrian refugees are safe in their

  • own country.

  • And he will fight ISIS first and then deal with Assad and making sure that Syria is no

  • longer a failed state after.

  • YANG: We've got to leave it there.

  • Boris Epshteyn, a senior adviser for the Trump campaign -- Gwen, Judy.

  • WOODRUFF: Thank you, John.

  • And as at every debate there are lot of charges and counter charges, claims and counter claims.

  • Our Lisa Desjardins is up in the newsroom right now, she has been keeping track of some

  • of this.

  • Lisa, what have you been hearing?

  • LISA DESJARDINS, NEWSHOUR CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

  • Many claims, many words in this debate, but let's talk start with two different claims

  • about Hillary Clinton's emails.

  • First, Donald Trump, and his claim during this debate that Hillary Clinton deleted those

  • 33,000 infamous emails after she received a subpoena to hand them over.

  • Now we looked into this, and like many things that the Clinton emails, the answer is a little

  • complicated.

  • Hillary Clinton's staff overseeing the email server ordered those emails to be deleted

  • in December of 2014.

  • The subpoena was actually handed out three months later.

  • But here is what they say happened.

  • They say a worker at the IT company forgot to delete them.

  • That worker has claimed responsibility and said he did delete them after the subpoena.

  • But here is the thing, guys, the order was given before the subpoena.

  • So Clinton herself says she has nothing to do with those deletions, so Donald Trump not

  • accurate on that point exactly.

  • And then Clinton, she also spoke about those emails, she said this quote that stuck out,

  • she said she takes classified materials very seriously and always has.

  • But of course the FBI in its investigation, while finding no wrongdoing, no criminal problems

  • with the Hillary Clinton's email server, did find that she and her staff were extremely

  • careless of classified information.

  • And you know if you read deep into the FBI's report once the whole thing came out, it was

  • clear that Hillary Clinton repeatedly said she did not receive training nor did she spend

  • time trying to get that training to be on classified materials.

  • She said she expected her staff to know what to do with classified materials.

  • So the real question there about how she looked at classified materials even though she claims

  • she took it very seriously.

  • And one more, we don't have graphic for this because we've been working right up to the

  • minute, Donald Trump claimed, and I want to read basically his quote, he claimed that

  • inner city poverty, he said, is 45 percent poverty, quote, "African-Americans now 45

  • percent poverty in the inner cities."

  • That number jumped out to us right away.

  • And of course our Quinn Bowman (ph) jumped on the U.S. Census site.

  • And right now the U.S. Census says African-American poverty overall about 24 percent.

  • That's nowhere near 45 percent.

  • We can't find anywhere that sort of backs up that number of 45 percent poverty rate

  • in the inner cities.

  • It's possible trump was confusing a number he quotes often on the campaign trail, which

  • is poverty rates for African-American children.

  • But we can't find anything to substantiate this claim of so much poverty in the African-American

  • community -- Gwen, Judy.

  • IFILL: That is great work, thank you, Lisa, for keeping us clear.

  • It's very clear that these candidates all come with their goals, the things that they

  • have come to say.

  • For instance, we saw -- we just heard what both of them came to say about emails and

  • about poverty, even though he wasn't asked about that.

  • And in fact, they got to emails before they were asked about it.

  • But I also was very interested to see what Donald Trump came to say about Hillary Clinton,

  • to follow up in your point earlier, he was asked about whether she -- I can't remember

  • what the question was, but his answer was, she's all talk no action.

  • Let's listen.

  • (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

  • TRUMP: Thirty years she has been doing this, Anderson, I say it all the time.

  • She talks about health care, why didn't she do something about it?

  • She talks about taxes.

  • Why didn't she do something about it?

  • She doesn't do anything about anything other than talk.

  • With her, it's all talk and no action.

  • She has made bad judgments on Libya, on Syria, on Iraq.

  • I mean, her and Obama, whether you like it or not, the way they got out of Iraq, the

  • vacuum they left, that's why ISIS formed in the first place.

  • They started from that little area now they're in 32 different nations.

  • Hillary, congratulations.

  • Great job.

  • (END VIDEO CLIP)

  • WOODRUFF: Amy, this is something that Donald Trump used in the first debate.

  • Didn't get as much I think play, he went on longer at this point.

  • This is a tough one to come back on, isn't it?

  • WALTER: Yes, it is the message that Donald Trump should be pushing forward, it's message

  • that any Republican would be pushing forward right now and probably doing so more effectively

  • because we wouldn't be distracted by that person's own problems that they keep having

  • to get out of.

  • That is the fundamental question of this election, when we started it, the question was, do Americans

  • want to see change or do they want to stick with the status quo?

  • And what's interesting, if you look at the way that these questions are asked in polling,

  • The Wall Street Journal poll, NBC poll asked this question starting in May, do you want

  • change, even if it's unpredictable versus staying the same even if it doesn't bring

  • about change.

  • It was in the 50s through May and July, it went back down to 49 percent in this most

  • recent poll in September.

  • And I think what Hillary Clinton's -- and actually Donald Trump has helped her do this,

  • is to make the case that you maybe want change, maybe I am the status quo, I am part of everything

  • that right now so many voters say they are pushing back against, but this person is not

  • the right person to deliver that change.

  • He's not stable.

  • IFILL: Let's talk a little bit about style points, because unlike the first debate, and

  • like vice presidential debate, what we saw were a town hall debate where people were

  • asking questions about -- they got through about eight questions from voters I think.

  • And at one point Hillary Clinton would walk over, for instance, when the young woman asked

  • about Muslims being discriminated against.

  • And she would speak directly to her.

  • He didn't as often.

  • And as you pointed out, David, sometimes it felt like he was stalking.

  • BROOKS: Yes, and so, weve seen sort of a temperamental choice for the American people.

  • On the one hand, she was lot better at relationally (ph), she was also a lot better, I thought

  • herthe cut-away shots, her listening shots were good.

  • Very strong, not intimidated by any means, but not taking him too seriously.

  • So I thought in the body language, and I really emphasize the visuals in these debates, that

  • was very strong.

  • He looked like a bully.

  • On the other hand there might be some people who say, it’s time for a bully.

  • And the question is whether they can stand looking at him for four years.

  • And so, I think a lot of people, especially people who are undecided, may have decided

  • it’s just too unpleasant.

  • And the question, a crucial question will be, I think everyone is dispirited by this

  • debate, as Mark said.

  • It’s just hard to sit through.

  • It’s very ugly.

  • It just makes you depressed for the country.

  • But will they say that Donald Trump’s fault or will they say that’s both of them?

  • And there’s a lot of that’s both of them out there right now.

  • WOODRUFF: And, Mark, you know, just pick up on that, because we are inat a unprecedented

  • campaign.

  • Weve talked about it over and over again.

  • Weve never seen some of the language, some of the stories that were hearing, some

  • of the charges that were hearing.

  • Do people just have that to look forward to for the next four weeks no matter how much

  • they talk about the issues at these debates?

  • SHIELDS: Well, yesno, I think we saw it tonight Donald Trump’s strategy was just

  • scorched earth.

  • I mean, that’s exactly what it is from here on in.

  • I mean, you thinkThe Jerry Springer Show”…

  • IFILL: And why not?

  • SHIELDS: You thinkThe Jerry Springer Showis tasteless?

  • I mean, this isThe Jerry Springer Showof politics.

  • I mean, you mention about hatred, I mean, for somebody to have the chutzpah to sit there,

  • you know, when Muslim-American woman asks about feeling animosity towards her, you know,

  • and he says, youre right about Islamophobia, and that’s a shame, says the merchant of

  • malice himself, I mean, it was just remarkable.

  • But I didn’t think — I thought he did trade well the first time.

  • And he did emails well tonight.

  • I mean, I thought she was very much on the defensive about the emails.

  • And I didn’t — I don’t think she has a satisfactory answer, convincing answer on

  • the emails.

  • IFILL: Well, and she was also on the defensive about the new WikiLeaks that came out about

  • her private speeches.

  • SHIELDS: And he didn’t take advantage of that.

  • IFILL: No, he didn’t.

  • But I had to say, it was my favorite answer of the night, I didn’t think Steven Spielberg

  • would ever be invoked at a presidential debate.

  • WOODRUFF: The movieLincoln.”

  • IFILL: The movieLincoln,” inspiration

  • (CROSSTALK)

  • WOODRUFF: … for having two points of view.

  • WALTER: Yes.

  • Look, I think though this race, to the points made here, it’s sort of now frozen where

  • we started.

  • And ifthere’s not a free fall, I agree that it may be stopped, but the fact is, there

  • are still a significant number of Republicans that have said publicly that theyre not

  • with him.

  • I don’t know that any party has ever won an election being this divided.

  • And his ability, it’s not about getting those people back, he has got to figure out

  • how to make sure that they come to the polls for the bottom of the ticket.

  • That’s what so many Senate and House candidates are worried about, it’s that those folks

  • who are saying, I can’t vote for Donald Trump, but as David says, I also don’t like

  • her.

  • That they just stay home, and that is very problematic for Senate and House candidates

  • on the Republican side.

  • WOODRUFF: We did have acknowledgment, the question is, is it baked in?

  • But tonight Donald Trump did acknowledge that he isn’t paying taxes.

  • I mean, we don’t — he wouldn’t say how many years, David, but it is kind of remarkable.

  • BROOKS: Yes.

  • And, again, he’s trading on distrust and cynicism and hatred of government.

  • And so the people who hate government will think, way to go, I would have done that if

  • I could.

  • But a lot of people will think, well, the common good outweighs the selfish interest.

  • IFILL: Shall we go back all the way to something that happened at the very beginning of this

  • evening.

  • And I wonder whether you think it was mind game and whether it was effective, that before

  • the debate even began, Donald Trump brought reporters and introduced them to four women

  • who have made charges against the Clintons, three against Bill Clinton in particular.

  • And they then brought seated in the hall.

  • He even referenced them during the debate at one point.

  • Was that something which was clever or kind of icky, Mark?

  • SHIELDS: Well, I mean, clever in the sense that he washe’s reaching to the hardcore

  • Republicans, the organizing principle of which is they hate the Clintons.

  • They hate Hillary Clinton.

  • They hate Bill Clinton.

  • And that is what it is.

  • And I am the one tribune in this race and I’m not afraid to take them on.

  • And that wasto me that was about stopping the hemorrhaging of support that weve talked

  • about of Republicans this week.

  • But icky?

  • Absolutely icky.

  • WALTER: Yes, I definitely found the ice factor there.

  • But, you know, this is a guy who is the master of reality television.

  • And he created, before this debate even began, more drama around himself and the focusthe

  • interesting thing about this entire debate was it was a town hall with the goal of, you

  • get to talk to actual voters and they get to have their concerns put forward.

  • At no point did it feel like regular people had their voices heard.

  • At no point did it feel like we were talking about anything other than a grudge match.

  • IFILL: OK.

  • Well, we areunfortunately we had hoped to talk to some folks from the Clinton campaign

  • out there in St. Louis tonight.

  • But we weren’t able to do it.

  • So that concludes our coverage, well get to more tomorrow, of the second presidential

  • debate.

  • But there is much more online.

  • You can watch highlights at pbs.org/newshour.

  • Plus, fact checks from our very own economics correspondent Paul Solman, foreign affairs

  • correspondent Margaret Warner, and the entire NEWSHOUR team.

  • I’m Gwen Ifill.

  • WOODRUFF: And I’m Judy Woodruff.

  • Join us right here for the NEWSHOUR tomorrow evening, for all of us at the PBS NEWHOUR,

  • and thanks to our team tonight, thank you and good night.

  • END

GWEN IFILL, NEWSHOUR ANCHOR: Good evening, I’m Gwen Ifill.

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