He's the founder of The Zeitgeist Movement and has recently released

他是時代精神運動的建立者 他最近發佈了

his newest film 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward'.

他最新的電影《時代精神：邁步向前》

Peter, thank you for joining us today.

彼德 謝謝你今天能加入我們

For our viewers who may not be very familiar with it

你能對那些不熟悉時代精神運動的觀眾們

please briefly explain what The Zeitgeist Movement is.

簡要地介紹一下時代精神運動嗎?

- The Zeitgeist film series I'll first point out

-我先要指出的是 時代精神系列電影

is my own creative expression

是我個人的創意性表達

and it carried over with an influence and inspiration

它在傳播的過程中 為時代精神運動裡

to The Zeitgeist Movement through a number of people

那些想要積極投身社會變革的人

that wanted to start being active in social change.

帶來了影響和啟迪

The Zeitgeist Movement overall

整個時代精神運動

is built upon the ideology of The Venus Project

都是建立在維納斯計劃的理念上

which is worth mentioning, the life work of Jacque Fresco.

我覺得有必要提一下雅克·法斯科的終身事業

What that means is all of the work that he's done

包括他一生作為工程師做過的所有事情:

throughout his entire life as an engineer: compiling sustainable designs

彙集擁有永續性的設計

compiling ideologies, value orientations

整合各種意識形態 價值觀導向

compiling ideas essentially that make us in tandem with nature.

整合本質上能讓我們與自然相連結的思想

If we want to approach all the problems in the world, we have to think about it technically

如果我們想要解決世界上的所有問題 我們必須從技術角度思考

not through political parties or the acquisition or movement of money.

而非政治團體和非金融操控的角度出發

It's time we just go straight to it because we understand it now.

因為我們現在都理解了這點 所以是時候直奔主題了

Science... I say that and people don't quite understand what I mean.

科學... 我說了之後很多人並不能完全理解我的意思

I'm not talking about an esoteric view, but a firm, physical science

我不是要討論難懂的觀點 而是切實的科學技術

of what it means to meet the needs of the human population.

以真正滿足人類的需求

-You often talk about the problems caused by our current monetary system.

-你經常提到所有問題 都是現今的金融貨幣體系導致的

How is it that by taking away money from the equation

那怎麼將去除貨幣

you really think we can eliminate

以及消滅犯罪和疾病這些問題

such problems as crime and disease?

等同起來呢?

- It's not just taking away the physical currency.

-並不僅僅只是去除實體的流通貨幣

It's the entire system itself. Let's make sure

問題在於整個體系本身 我先把話完全說清楚

that's abundantly clear. When I talk about money

我先把話完全說清楚 當我提到貨幣時

I'm referring to the monetary structure and its holistic entity.

我指的是金融貨幣結構及它所涵蓋的全部

Let's start with crime: 90-95% of all crimes are based on property.

讓我們從犯罪入手:90至95%的犯罪都歸因於財產

A guy will run out and steal a car that's worth $15,000.

一個人沒錢了 就去偷一輛價值一萬五美元的車

He'll get arrested and thrown in jail for possibly 10 years

他就會被逮捕 並被囚禁約十年

at an expense of probably $300,000. Just give him the car.

這將花費大約三十萬美元 還不如直接把車給他

It's inefficient, the entire crime and punishment

犯罪和刑罰整個過程都是沒有效率的

so give people what they need

給人們所需要的

and you'll begin to see that needs and wants start to divide.

然後你就開始看到"需求"和"欲求"開始區別開來

We live in a subculture based on wants.

我們生活在一個基於"欲求"的亞文化之中

We create all these artificial wants. People want their stylistic

我們創造了這些人為的"欲求" 人們想要精美的物質財富

and materialistic ideas, and the things they want to own

人們想要精美的物質財富 而且他們想要"擁用"

and show their property and status: This is a concoction.

來顯示他們的財產和地位: 這是一種捏造

Then there's needs on the other end of the spectrum.

而在範圍的另一端是"需求"

Needs are true, viable things

"需求"是實在的 能維持生存的事物

and when people don't have their needs met, crime emerges.

當人們無法滿足需求時 就會出現犯罪

Crime is easily related to money

犯罪總是與金錢相關

and there's only one small percentage of really serious violent crimes

只有少數是非常嚴重的暴力犯罪

and even many of those come from psychological neuroses.

甚至其中的大多數都由神經官能症導致

You can research the work of James Gilligan.

你可以去研究下詹姆斯·吉力根( James Gilligan)的工作

They come from bad conditions

他們是由惡劣條件導致的

and in a Resource-Based Economy, that is a very important issue.

而在資源導向型經濟中 這是一個非常重要的問題

It's not just the technical management of resources.

這不僅僅是資源的科學管理

It's understanding that the entire environment has to be low-stress.

我們還要認識到整個環境不能被過度開發

-You also talk about our over-reliance on fossil fuels

-你也提到我們對石化燃料的過分依賴

and how this will eventually lead to a financial collapse.

以及這件事最終將如何導致經濟崩潰

What do you think that it will eventually take

你覺得什麼最終會

for us to to start looking at our energy issues a lot differently?

使得我們開始重新審視能源問題?

Does gas have to be 10 dollars a gallon?

天然氣難道必須是一加侖十美元嗎?

- If you're born into this system or indoctrinated into it

如果你生於這個體系 或被灌輸了這個體系的思維

and you think the system is working

而且你真的認為這個體系沒問題

10 dollars a gallon might be the rude awakening it takes

那麼一加侖十美元 可能就是赤裸裸的覺醒代價

to get society to understand what's happening.

好讓社會知道到底發生了什麼事

- Let's talk about how over-consumption is affecting us in real time.

-我們來討論一下正在發生的且影響著我們的過度消費

Here in Los Angeles we're dealing with high unemployment

在洛杉磯我們面臨著高失業率

unprecedented hunger. Does it really have to be this way?

前所未有的饑貧 難道非要變成這樣不可嗎?

I think a lot of us over the years have grown to learn

我想我們其中很多人 經過歲月的洗禮意識到

that there has to be some suffering in this world, right?

這個世界上必然要存在著苦難 對吧？

- Capitalist, free-market system, I don't believe it's going to hold up

-資本家 自由市場 我不相信這些

for that much longer. I'm not a prophet

還能維持多久 我不是一個先知

but I think that it's going to show itself

但我想事實會證明一切

and people are going to begin to see that it's intrinsically flawed.

人們將會開始看到這個體系 本質上存在缺陷

The collapse of industrial civilization to put it

誇張地講 工業文明將會

very exaggeratedly

崩潰

because we base everything on oil is a very terrifying idea.

因為把一切發展都奠基於石油 這是非常可怕的想法

I am not a doomsday theorist. I'm simply looking at the statistics.

我不是一個末日理論者 我只是研究數據

If we aren't adapting ourselves to renewables

如果我們還不適應使用充足的可再生能源

which we have plenty of: We just need a Systems Approach

我們只是需要"系統性方法"

to energize them and get them going to change the global infrastructure

來使它們提供能量 並用它們來改變全球的基礎構架

which we could easily do if there was an interest to do so.

如果大家有興趣的話 這簡直易如反掌

It's a technical phenomenon. We don't need money to do it.

這是一個技術層面的問題 我們並不需要錢來做這件事

We just do it. You know what I mean?

"做就對了" 你懂我意思嗎?

If that doesn't ocur, we're definitely going to see more wars

如果不去做這件事 絕對會有更多的戰爭發生

and extremely high gasoline prices. We're going to have a huge profiteering subculture.

汽油價格會變得極其高 牟取暴利的亞文化將會出現

The collapse of society will be met with a huge profiteering group

當社會崩潰時 會有一個巨大團體牟取暴利

that are shorting all the interests, that are the owners of the goods

賣空所有股份 這些人就是物品的擁用者

that are going scarce because scarcity equates to more profit

物品會"匱乏" 因為"匱乏"等於更多利潤

and that's another thing I think people should understand.

這是我希望大家理解的另一件事

There's no intrinsic interest

在每個人都能安居樂業的社會中

in the whole of society for the well-being of everyone

不存在既得利益

and there isn't going to be as far as I'm concerned

就我個人而言 也不認為會有

a legitimate economic recovery. We're not going to see...

一個正常的經濟復甦 我們將不會看到...

The heyday of the human species, as far as I'm concerned, is over

我認為人類的全盛期 已經結束了

until radical shifts are made because of how important

除非發生巨大的改變 這是因為石油問題

the hydrocarbon issue has been, and no one is doing anything

一直以來的重要性 但卻沒有人做任何事

to counter it. What we need really is a 'Manhattan Project'

去抵制它 我們真正需要的是另一個"曼哈頓計劃"

but for renewable energy research

但這次是為了研究可再生能源

and without having to worry about limitations of corporations

不再需要擔心公司的種種限制

to get it done. To answer your question, there's not going to be

而無法實現 回答你的問題:將不會有一個

an economic recovery that people are expecting.

人們所希望的經濟復甦

-But it was many poor and middle-class Americans

-但是有很多窮人和中產階級

who contributed to the victory of our current president.

為了我們現任總統的當選做出了貢獻

Is their voice not being heard?

他們的心聲沒被聽見嗎?

- Does anyone have a voice in this democracy we call America?

-在美國這樣的"民主"社會 有誰擁有自己的聲音嗎?

It doesn't matter how loud someone yells or how many letters

一個人喊得有多麼響 給國會議員

they write to their congressman or how much they complain

寫了多少信 他們抱怨過多少次 都不重要

very little can change what is set in motion

這些都不會改變固有的東西

by the very nature of the political system which is simple:

因為政治體系的本質很簡單:

It's appointed dictatorship, boom!

它就是被認可的獨裁!

Once they're in power there's very little any of us can do

一旦政客掌握權力 我們就無能為力了

and since the entire thing is subservient to corporate interests

又因為整個體系通過稅收和其他一切

through taxation and everything else

屈從於公司盈利

you see that the political corporate interest in what John Perkins calls

你就能看到政治和公司的利益 存在於約翰·柏金斯(John Perkins)所稱的

'The Corporatocracy' is the phenomenon that exists.

"公司王國"現象之中

The public is always going to be given the short end of the stick

自從君主崇拜的時代開始 普通大眾就一直是

and always has been since the divinity of kings.

以後也將總是處於劣勢

Nothing's really changed. We live in an advanced form of feudalism and nothing more.

從來沒有真正的改變 我們只是生活在封建社會的高級形式中

- In the past you've pointed out the dangers

-過去 你指出過

of our massive debt problem here in America.

美國巨額債務所帶來的危險

Do you think that this is an issue that's just impossible to resolve

你是否覺得這個問題是無法解決的

even with the massive austerity measures that are being proposed?

即使實施目前提出的大規模緊縮措施?

- Austerity measures are an abomination

-緊縮政策令人厭惡

a complete atrocity against the general population

是完全不利於普通大眾的惡行

as all austerity measures have been from the World Bank or any other institution

如同所有由世界銀行 或者其他組織實施的緊縮政策

because the problem isn't the people.

因為問題不在民眾

They cut natural gas programs, NPR

政府削減天然氣項目 美國公共廣播電台

things like education.

以及教育的預算

These are the core attributes of human survival.

這些都是人類生存的重要屬性

They cut welfare. Why are they cutting that

他們削減福利 為什麼他們要削減福利?

when we're spending a trillion dollars a year on war?

可他們每年在戰爭中花數兆美元?

Where is the logic with all of this?

邏輯何在?

- In your film, you talk about how robots will eventually be doing

-在你的電影裡 你提到機器最終會

all the jobs that humans are doing.

替代人類做所有的工作

To a certain extent that's already happening

這在一定程度上已經存在

robots are taking the jobs of thousands of people.

機器已經取代成千上萬人的工作

This sounds like a bad thing

這聽起來像壞事

to those workers that are losing these jobs now

對那些正在失業的工人來說

but you think that mechanization will eventually be a great thing.

但你認為 機械化最終會成為一件偉大的事情

-Technological unemployment has manifested throughout time.

-因科技導致的失業 隨著時間顯現出來

Every major labor change that we've had as a civilization

我們這個文明每次主要勞動方式的改變

has been based on the advent of technology from the Agricultural Revolution

一直都是基於新科技的降臨 從農業革命

(the invention of the plow) to the Industrial Revolution

(犁的發明) 到工業革命

(the invention of the power machine) until we come to the Information Age

(動力機械的發明) 再到現在的資訊時代

we have now where everyone is interacting with computer systems.

在這個時代每個人都與電腦系統互動

The contradiction of capitalism by some economic theorists

一些經濟理論家所說的資本主義矛盾

that investigate this idea that we're displacing ourselves

認為我們正用機械化取代自己

with mechanization that can create more

機械化生產力更高

provide more, but yet reducing human purchasing power...

但卻降低人們的購買力...

What you have is the more we mechanize, less jobs

實際情況是 產業越機械化 工作機會

less money in circulation, so how can an economy work?

與流通的貨幣會越少 那經濟如何繼續運轉?

It's starting to stifle itself because of this very phenomenon.

經濟就會因為這種現象開始窒息

Technology is more efficient than labor. It's time to maximize that.

科技比人力勞動更有效率 是時候將其潛能發揮至最大化了

Instead of corporations feeling that they would be providing

相對於企業自詡著 提供大眾就業機會的社會服務

a social service to keep people employed, we say

提供大眾就業機會的社會服務 讓我們說:

"Forget the labor crippling system. We're in a different paradigm now."

"忘掉殘缺的人力勞動體系吧 我們現在處於不同的模式裡"

We can create an abundance on this planet, an 'Access Abundance'.

我們可以在這個星球上創造富足 或者"取得富足"

We can have vertical farms fully automated off the coast of Los Angeles

我們可以在洛杉磯的海岸 建設完全自動化的垂直農場

that could produce all of the organic food for all of Los Angeles.

就可以為整個洛杉磯提供所有的有機食物

- You make the claim that our current socioeconomic system

-你宣稱我們當前的社會經濟體系

is just not working. For people who agree with you

是無效的 對那些支持你

or want to create change right away, what suggestions do you have for them?

或想要馬上改變的人 你有什麼建議給他們嗎?

- If the patterns and trends that I see continue:

-如果我看到的這些模式和趨勢 繼續下去的話:

ignoring of energy issues

忽視能源問題

ignoring the growing instability through society

忽視社會正在加劇的不穩定

the naivety of the general population to think

普通大眾天真地認為

"Oh, everything is just going to be OK"

"啊 一切都會好起來的"

these things will coalesce into what I consider collapse

那麼這些聯合起來 就會變成我認為的崩潰

and it's a multifaceted, very difficult thing to anticipate

而且是多層面的 非常難以預測

and it won't occur in some big 'you wake up one day and everyone's on fire'

而且它的發生不會像 "你某天醒來 所有人都著火了"那樣突然

it will be a slow grind of more unemployment

它會慢慢到來 伴隨更多失業

extreme poverty, suffering, death, more wars

極度貧窮 苦難 死亡 更多的戰爭

more basic social instability, rationing of resources.

與社會基礎的動盪 以及資源的定額供應

People should boycott the major banks

人們應該聯合抵制主要的銀行

especially the banks that are part of the Federal Reserve cartel.

特別是那些屬於聯邦準備的壟斷

This is a corrupt financial institution that has a cartel of private banks

這是一個腐化的金融機構 一個私人銀行壟斷集團

and everyone seems to think it's OK. People are beginning to realize

而且看似大家都覺得沒有問題 但人們開始意識到

that people in power are preserving themselves

有權勢的人在維護著自己

and they really don't have a genuine interest to help anyone else.

他們並沒有真誠的興趣來幫助他人

I do suggest that people begin to be more conscious

我建議大家要開始變得更為清醒

and try to find other sources of information.

並嘗試獲取其他訊息來源

I happen to enjoy RT independent media, more independent media

我十分欣賞"今日俄羅斯" 這類更為獨立的媒體

and get away from the dominant institutions. Imagine

遠離占主導地位的機構

years ago when you lived in a society

想像數年之前 你生活在一個

where all you had was a newspaper. There was no television.

只有報紙的社會 當時沒有電視

All you got was the newspaper in your front door. Imagine how easy it was

你能得到的只是扔在門前的報紙 想想當時

for people to control what people thought. Don't ever join the military.

要控制人們的思想是多麼簡單 不要加入軍隊

Support the people that are there and respect them as human beings.

但要支持軍人 並把他們作為人類同胞來尊重

When I speak to people in the military, I say "Just get out!"

當我對軍人講話時 我會說:"儘管離開吧!"

I keep respect for the people that go into this. I feel for them.

我尊重加入軍隊的人 我同情他們

The poorer Americans that have been forced, coerced

這些人是較為貧窮的美國人 受到經濟結構的強迫和壓搾

by the economic structure to get money for college, and boom!

受到經濟結構的強迫和壓搾 才能湊足上大學的錢 結果卻是"砰!"

They're thrown into this hugely detrimental psychological environment

他們被扔進對心理造成巨大傷害的環境中

the shell-shock and everything that emerges

炮彈休克和其它問題就會出現

the one in four veterans that commit suicide.

有四分之一的老兵自殺

It is not in our basic human development to just kill each other.

互相殺戮並不符合我們人類的基本進步

I think that it really is a bad state of mind and causes more hurt than anything else

我覺得惡劣的心理狀態引起的傷害 比其他一切更嚴重

and in the larger perspective geopolitically all it does is create animosity.

而從更大的地域和政治視角來看 它只會製造仇恨

If you took all the money we spend on war and applied it to renewable energies

如果你把我們花在戰爭上的所有錢 用在可再生能源

or applied it to anything social, you could resolve that problem in a second.

或任何社會性的事務上 你可以瞬間解決那些問題

If you took all the scientists that are currently developing weapons

如果你召集所有正在開發武器的科學家

and put them on how to actually redesign a sustainable society...

並讓他們去研究怎樣重新設計一個永續的社會...

If you get out of hydrocarbon economy

如果你能脫離石油的經濟

if you had people actually utilize the interests of the well-being of the planet

如果你真的對下列事宜感興趣 即讓這個星球和全人類

and its human species, if we just simply made that decision

實現和平幸福 如果我們能就這樣作出決定

instead of constantly trying to kill each other

而不是一直想著去殺死對方

for whatever temporal purpose or resource, geopolitical alignment

因為不管暫時性目的 資源 地緣政治走向如何

or whatever strategy of dominance happens to be the flavor of the month

不管統治階層的政策 是否正好符合時機

if we could just get away from that

只要我們能夠拋棄這些

we'd be much better off, to put it very frankly.

非常坦白講 我們的日子就會更好