(Oprah) Welcome back to my Soul Series,

our weekly half hour to be able to delve into

you know, all things really spiritual,

to challenge the status quo; that's what this show is all about.

To connect to higher ground,

and thereby elevate the value of our experience here and now.

The here and now. You know, that's an expression that's achieved an almost...

you know, cult-like status in our lexicon. But,

as in any case when phrases are used and overused in a culture,

sometimes they tend to lose their influence and their impact,

and people just toss about "the here and the now" as a referent in time

without actually considering, I think, the magnitude

of what those words really represent.

Today, right now, I want to share with you

somebody who has helped me, along with millions of other people,

to really understand just why that phrase,

the here and particularly the now, is not only vital,

but is really all that there is.

My guest today should be called, I guess, the father of the now.

Because Eckhart Tolle is widely recognized

as one of the most original and inspiring spiritual teachers of our time.

I personally think that

you are a prophet, Mr. Tolle.

And I was first introduced to your teachings back in

in the year 2000,

when actress Meg Ryan was on my show, and she told me about this book.

We were in a commercial break, I don't even know how the subject came up,

but she mentioned The Power of Now,

and how it was really having a big impact on her life.

And so I went right out and got the book right away,

and I put it in my magazine as one of -- on the OWN list,

and I think I even list it as a favorite thing for Christmas

for all of our viewers.

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment

would have to be one of the most transformative books in my life.

It's always by my bedside,

no matter where I am I carry it with me,

I was just saying before -- I was introducing you, Eckhart, that I wished

I had my original, original, original copy,

because I bought so many copies since the first copy,

but my original, original copy -- I had so many

yellow markings in it for highlighting every sentence,

I just thought, "Well, why don't I finish reading the book

instead of highlighting everything?"

Welcome to our Soul Series.

Thank you so much for joining us.

-- Thank you.

-- Well,

there's so much I want to talk to you about.

I know we're not gonna get to all of it,

so I just want to tell all of our listeners now,

those of you who are big supporters,

seekers, and fans of his book The Power of Now,

that this conversation will be continued next week.

So today's discussion is really -- I'm going to try to focus it on

the now, and the book The Power of Now.

I was so moved in the book when you said

you -- in the very beginning of the book, you said

29 years old, having pondered suicide,

you were thinkink this:

Quote, "I cannot live with myself any longer."

"This was the thought that kept repeating itself in my mind."

"And then suddenly I became aware of what a peculiar thought that was."

"Am I one or two?"

"If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me:"

"The 'I' and the 'self' that 'I' cannot live with."

" 'Maybe,' I thought, 'only one of them is real.'"

I love this because it's really one of the first times I thought,

"Yeah, that's right!"

When you say, 'I'm going to tell myself something,'

who is the 'I,' and who is the 'self?'

That's the fundamental question, is it not?

-- Yes, that's right. The...

most people are not aware that they have a

a little man or woman in their head

that keeps talking and talking.

So there's a voice in the head -- that's internal dialogue

that most people are completely identified with.

And in my case, and in many peoples' case, the

voice in the head is a predominantly unhappy one.

So there's an enormous amount of unhappiness

that is continuously generated by this unconscious

internal dialogue.

And in that moment that night,

the separation occurred inside me between the voice,

which is the incessant

stream of thinking, and the

sense of self that had become identified with that voice in the head,

and a deeper sense of self

that I later recognized as essentially

consciousness itself,

rather than something that consciousness had become through thinking.

So that night, the separation occurred,

and when I woke up the next morning, I was completely at peace

for the first time since my childhood

without understanding why. The understanding came much later.

So the important point here is that

it's essential for people to become aware that their thought processes

and the sense of self that is derived from their thinking,

which includes, of course, all one's memories,

all one's conditioning;

one's sense of self is a conceptual one

that is derived from the past.

So all the stream of thinking really is

a form of conditioning of the past.

So it's essential for people to recognize

that this voice is going on inside them incessantly

and it's always a breakthrough when people for the first time realize,

here's my thinking,

here are all the importune thoughts that I've been having;

repetitive thoughts;

very often

recurring negative thoughts,

and they suddenly realize,

"And here I am, knowing

that these thoughts are going through my head."

So the identification is suddenly broken.

And that is, for many people, the first real spiritual breakthrough.

Spiritual, as I see it, is not believing in this or that,

but it's stepping out of identification with a stream of thinking.

So you suddenly find there's another dimention

deeper than thinking inside you,

I'm just going to call that "stillness,"

it's an aware presence. Just that.

It's nothing to do with past or future,

and that, we could call also,

it's like waking up.

That's why, traditionally in many spiritual traditions,

they use the term "awakening"

so many people will tell you,

"Well, what do you mean, 'awakening?' I'm awake already."

But what is meant by 'awakening' is

that you wake up out of the stream of thinking.

And when you wake up, you become present.

A completely different dimension of consciousness is suddenly there.

(Oprah) Well, I recall

in Stillness Speaks, you talk about

the awareness --

Stillness Speaks, the book Stillness Speaks, is all about that awareness,

and I love the line where you say,

"Once you recognize" -- I'm paraphrasing, of course --

"that voice, and that you are the observer of that voice,

that very awareness is you."

(Eckhart) That's right.

And not the voice,

so you recognize as essentially there's something inside you

that has its place, it's the stream of thinking,

it's connected with the past,

it contains all your memories,

it contains all reactive patterns,

it contains old emotions and so on; they're all part of that.

But essentially, it is not *essentially* who you are.

And that's an amazing realization.

Now the mind, of course, may then ask,

"Well then, tell me who I am."

(Oprah) That's the big question. I'm talking to Eckhart Tolle,

author of Power of Now.

So what is the answer to that question?

(Eckhart) Well, the answer to that question is that who you are

cannot be defined through thinking

or through mental labels or mental definitions,

because it is beyond that.

It is the very sense of 'beingness' or presence

that is there when you become conscious of the present moment.

It's intrinsically one with what we call the present moment.

You -- I sometimes say this, though some people might find this a little strange,

but in essence, you and what we call the present moment

at the most -- at the deepest level, are one.

(chuckles) Because you are the consciousness

out of which everything comes.

Every thought comes out of that consciousness that you are.

Every thought disappears back into that space of consciousness that you are.

So essentially, you are a conscious, aware space.

And all your sense perceptions ,

all your thinking, all your emotions

happen, they come and go, in that aware

space. Yeah. -- Space. Yes.

-- Well, did it feel like, Eckhart,

when this happened to you that moment

of realization where you realize

the voice was separate from the awareness,

that moment that you speak about at the beginning of the book,

did it literally blow your mind?

-- Yes, it did.

But I didn't understand it, I just realized suddenly,

the next day I was at peace, and I remained at peace.

There was a deep sense of inner peace,

although externally, nothing had changed.

So I knew something very drastic had happened,

but it took me some years to actually understand what had happened.

I -- some years after -- three years after this transformation,

I was talking to a Zen monk (chuckles)

and he was telling me, he said,

"Well Zen basically is very simple,

it's -- you don't rely on thinking anymore.

It means to go beyond thinking."

And I suddenly realized,

"Oh, this is what has happened to me!"

That state that I felt was a state of inner peace,

was also a state of

far less thinking than I had been doing before.

All that unhappy thinking,

all that repetitive thinking wasn't happening to me anymore.

(Oprah) And so, you have often said in all of your books,

you characterize thinking as a terrible affliction,

even a disease, and that it's the greatest barrier

to the power of now.

But isn't to think to be human?

I thought that's how we are different from other animals.

-- That's right. Thinking can also be

a powerful and wonderful tool.

It only becomes an affliction

if we are totally identified with thinking,

and we derive our sense of who we are

from the stream of thinking.

In that case, you're telling yourself continuously,

what I call sometimes, 'the story of me,'

and in many peoples' case, it's an unhappy story.

So they are continuously dwelling on the past

and there's nothing wrong with the past, but if there's

complete self-identification with memory,

then all your sense of who you are; your sense of identity

is then derived from the stream of thinking,

and that's a dysfunctional and unhappy state.

So when you step out of identification with that,

and you realize for the first time,

I'm actually the presence behind thinking.

Then, you are able to use thinking

when it's helpful and needed,

and it can be a wonderful thing.

But you're no longer, to put it in extreme terms; but it's true,

you're no longer, then, possessed

by the thinking mind.

The thinking mind is then a servant

or a helpful tool which you can use,

it's useful for many situations in this world,

but you can't find *yourself* in there.

And also, it is --

if you can never beyond the thinking mind,

it interferes with relationships.

It creates continuous conflict in relationships

if there is no sense of space in the relationship.