a message from

我為你們帶來

tens of thousands of people --

一個信息，它來自

in the villages, in the slums,

數以萬計生活在，

in the hinterland of the country --

一個國家的內陸

who have solved problems

的村落和貧民窟的人們，

through their own genius,

他們已經

without any

利用他們的天才解決了問題，

outside help.

沒有依靠任何

When our home minister announces

外來的幫助。

a few weeks ago

當我們的內政部長

a war on

在幾個星期之前宣布

one third of India,

一場在

about 200 districts that he mentioned

三分之一印度的戰爭，

were ungovernable,

在他提到的大約 200 個地區，

he missed the point.

是無法管治的，

The point that we have been stressing

他忽略了一點

for the last 21 years,

而一個恰恰是我們堅持了

the point that

21 年的理念

people may be economically poor,

這就是

but they're not poor in the mind.

人們可能是經濟上很貧乏，

In other words,

但他們並不缺乏想法

the minds on the margin

換言之

are not the marginal minds.

在邊綠的想法

That is the message,

並不是不足的想法。

which we started 31 years ago.

我們31年前就開始

And what did it start?

傳播這個信息

Let me just tell you, briefly, my personal journey,

那是怎么開始的呢 ?

which led me to come to this point.

讓我簡單的告訢你，我個人的經歷，

In '85, '86, I was in Bangladesh

怎樣引領我到這裡。

advising the government and the research council there

85 年至 86 年，我在孟加拉

how to help scientists work on the lands,

為政府及研究理事會提供意見

on the fields of the poor people,

怎樣

and how to develop research technologies,

在貧窮的人艮的土地上去幫助科學研究

which are based on the knowledge of the people.

與及如何發展

I came back in '86.

基於當地人們的智識的研究技術。

I had been tremendously invigorated

我在 86 年回來。

by the knowledge and creativity that I found in that country,

我非常的振奮

which had 60 percent landlessness

因為我看到了那個

but amazing creativity.

有 60% 人沒有土地的國家中的百姓的智識及創意。

I started looking at my own work:

那是非常驚人的創意。

The work that I had done

我開始審視我自己的工作

for the previous 10 years,

那些我在

almost every time,

過去之前10 年的工作，

had instances of knowledge

幾乎每一次，

that people had shared.

也有部份的智識是

Now, I was paid in dollars as a consultant,

由別人分享的。

and I looked at my income tax return

現在我作為一個收費的顧問，

and tried to ask myself: "Is there a line in my return,

當我看到我的報稅表

which shows how much of this income has gone

我嘗試問我自己，在我的報稅表裡，"當中是否有一行

to the people whose knowledge

顥示有多少的收入給了

has made it possible?

那些擁有

Was it because I'm brilliant

令這一切發生的知識的人們 ?"

that I'm getting this reward, or because of the revolution?

是否因為我是非常的傑出

Is it that I write very well?

所以我可以得到這些回報，或是?

Is it that I articulate very well?

是否因為我寫得非常的棒?

Is it that I analyze the data very well?

是否因為我表達得非常的棒?

Is it because I'm a professor, and, therefore,

是否因為我分析數據做得非常的棒?

I must be entitled to this reward from society?"

是否因為我是教授，所以，

I tried to convince myself that, "No, no,

我一定有資格在社會上得到這些回報 ?

I have worked for the policy changes.

我嘗試說服自已，"不是，不是，

You know, the public policy will become

我會投票改革政策。

more responsive to the needs of the poor,

要知道，公共政策會變得

and, therefore I think it's okay."

更能回應貧困的人的需要，

But it appeared to me

因此，我想這是沒有問題的。"

that all these years that I'd been working on exploitation --

但是，對我而言

exploitation by landlords,

這些年來，我一直致力於研究剝削行為，

by moneylenders, by traders --

地主的剝削

gave me an insight that

貸款者，以及商人的剝削

probably I was also an exploiter,

這給我一個深刻的理解

because there was no line in my income tax return

可能我也是一個剝削者，

which showed this income accrued

因為在我的報稅表中沒有一行

because of the brilliance of the people --

顯示該收入

those people who have shared their knowledge and good faith and trust with me --

是因為人們卓越的才智而產生，

and nothing ever went back to them.

那些人們曾經分享他們的知識，給予我真誠及信任，

So much so, that much of my work till that time

同時間，並沒有任何東西回到他們那裡。

was in the English language.

另外，直至當時，我大部份的工作都是

The majority of the people from whom I learned didn't know English.

用英語的。

So what kind of a contributor was I?

而大部份我學習的人都不認識英語。

I was talking about social justice,

那到底我算是一個怎樣的貢獻者呢 ?

and here I was, a professional

我曾一直在講社會公義

who was pursuing the most unjust act --

同時在這裡我亦是一個専業人士

of taking knowledge from the people, making them anonymous,

一個從事最不公義的行為，

getting rent from that knowledge

從人們身上奪取知識，令他們匿名，

by sharing it and doing consultancy, writing papers and

用這些知識去得到身份地位

publishing them in the papers,

分享這些知識，去做顧問，撰寫報告，

getting invited to the conferences,

發表這些知識到學術報告，

getting consultancies and whatever have you.

接受會議的邀請，

So then, a dilemma rose in the mind that,

得到顧問及其他一切的工作。

if I'm also an exploiter, then this is not right;

然後，一個兩難的問題在我的腦海出現，

life cannot go on like that.

假如我也是一個剝削者，這是不對的;

And this was a moment of great pain and trauma

生命不可以就這樣下去。

because I couldn't live with it any longer.

這是一個非常痛苦和創傷的時刻，

So I did a review of

因為我不可以再這樣生活下去。

ethical dilemma and value conflicts and management research,

因此，我做了一次審查，

wrote, read about 100 papers.

我思考 [不清楚地] 研究，

And I came to the conclusion that

撰寫，閱讀大約 100 份報告，

while dilemma is unique,

然後，我得到結論，

dilemma is not unique; the solution had to be unique.

當難題是獨一無二，

And one day -- I don't know what happened --

難題並不是獨一無二，只是解決方法是獨一無二。

while coming back from the office towards home,

有一日，我不知道發生甚麼事，

maybe I saw a honey bee

當由辦公室回到家中，

or it occurred to my mind that if I only could be like the honey bee,

或者我看到一隻蜜蜂，

life would be wonderful.

或者看上來，假如我可以像蜜蜂一樣，

What the honey bee does: it pollinates,

生活就可以得美滿。

takes nectar from the flower,

蜜蜂到底做些甚麼，它傳播花粉，

pollinates another flower, cross-pollinates.

從花中採蜜，

And when it takes the nectar,

為另外一朶花授粉，交叉授粉，

the flowers don't feel shortchanged.

當牠採蜜時，

In fact, they invite the honey bees

花並沒有感覺到被尅扣。

through their colors,

事實上，她們

and the bees don't keep all the honey for themselves.

用顏色吸引蜜蜂。

These are the three guiding principles of the Honey Bee Network:

同時蜜蜂不會將所有花蜜留給自己。

that whenever we learn something from people

在蜜蜂網絡中，有這三個原則 -

it must be shared with them in their language.

每當我們從其他人學習

They must not remain anonymous.

就必須用他們自己的語言去分享。

And I must tell you that after 20 years,

他們不能保持匿名，

I have not made one percent of change

我必須要告訢你，在 20 年後，

in the professional practice of this art.

我沒有

That is a great tragedy -- which I'm carrying still with me

令這行為改變百分之一。

and I hope that all of you will carry this with you --

這是一個我一直背負着的重大悲劇，

that the profession still legitimizes publication

而我亦希望你們所有人會同時背負着這個，

of knowledge of people without attributing them

一班專業者仍然用匿名的方法去發表其他人的知識

by making them anonymous.

而沒有歸功於他們，

The research guidelines of U.S. National Academy of Sciences

並將之合法化。

or Research Councils of the U.K.

美國國家科學院

or of Indian Councils of Science Research

或英國研究理事會

do not require

或印度科學研究會議

that whatever you learn from people, you must share back with them.

的研究指引中都沒有要求，

We are talking about an accountable society,

無論你從其他人身上學到甚麼，你都一定要回饋他們。

a society that is fair and just,

我們在討論一個負責任的社會，

and we don't even do justice in the knowledge market.

一個公平，公正的社會。

And India wants to be a knowledge society.

同時我們連知識市場都不求公義。

How will it be a knowledge society?

同時印度想要成為一個有知識的社會。

So, obviously, you cannot have two principles of justice,

這怎麼會成為一個有知識的社會 ?

one for yourself and one for others.

因此，明顯地，你不可以有兩個公義的準則，

It must be the same.

一個自己的，一個他人的。

You cannot discriminate.

這必須要一致的。

You cannot be in favor of your own values,

你不可以有差別地對待。

which are at a distance from

你不可以偏坦自己的價值，

the values that you espouse.

而遠離

So, fairness to one and to the other

你擁護的價值。

is not divisible.

因此，公平對於一個人，以致對其他人

Look at this picture.

是不可分割的。

Can you tell me where has it been taken from,

看看這幅圖。

and what is it meant for? Anybody?

你可否告訢我這是從那裡拍到的，

I'm a professor; I must quiz you. (Laughter)

與及，它當中的意思嗎 ? 有沒有人 ?

Anybody? Any guess at all?

我是一個教授，我必須考考你。

Pardon? (Audience Member: Rajasthan.)

有沒有人? 有沒有任何推測 ?

Anil Gupta: But what has it been used for? What has it been used for?

請重覆。(觀眾: 拉賈斯坦)

(Murmuring)

阿尼爾古普塔: 但它有何用途? 它曾用作甚麼 ?

Pardon?

(絲絲細語)

You know, you're so right. We must give him a hand,

請重覆。

because this man knows how insensitive our government is.

你知道，你是正確的，我們一定要為他拍掌。

Look at this. This is the site of the government of India.

因為這個人知道我們的政府是怎樣的感覺遲鈍。

It invites tourists

看看這裡。這是印度政府的地點。

to see the shame of our country.

它邀請遊客

I'm so sorry to say that.

去看我們國家的恥辱。

Is this a beautiful picture

我很抱歉地說。

or is it a terrible picture?

這是一個很美麗的圖片 -

It depends upon how you look at the life of the people.

或是一個很可佈的圖片 ?

If this woman has to carry water on her head

這決定於你怎樣看待人們的生活。

for miles and miles and miles,

假如這女人要用頭去担水

you cannot be celebrating that.

很遠，很遠，很遠，

We should be doing something about it.

你不能為此慶祝。

And let me tell you, with all the science and technology at our command,

我們應該做點事情。

millions of women still carry water on their heads.

待我告訢你，用我們可以動用的所有科學及技術，

And we do not ask this question.

數以百萬計的女人仍然要用她們的頭去担水。

You must have taken tea in the morning.

同時我們沒有發問這個問題。

Think for a minute.

你一定在早上有喝過菜。

The leaves of the tea, plucked from the bushes;

用一分鐘想想。

you know what the action is? The action is:

茶的葉子，從灌木叢中採摘。

The lady picks up a few leaves, puts them in the basket on the backside.

你知道那是怎樣的動作嗎? 那動作是:

Just do it 10 times;

那女士採摘幾塊葉子，放到她們背後的籃子中。

you will realize the pain in this shoulder.

只要重覆十次，

And she does it a few thousand times

你會發現肩膀的痛苦。

every day.

她每天做了

The rice that you ate in the lunch, and you will eat today,

幾萬次。

is transplanted by women

你們午餐吃的米飯，今天你們會吃的，

bending in a very awkward posture,

是由一班女人彎曲成一個非常尷尬的姿勢

millions of them,

移植的，

every season, in the paddy season,

幾百萬人，

when they transplant paddy

每個季節，在稻田的季節，

with their feet in the water.

當她們用雙腳站在水中

And feet in the water will develop fungus,

移植稻田。

infections,

腳浸在水中會生長真菌，

and that infection pains

感染。

because then other insects bite that point.

這感染是痛苦的

And every year,

因為其他昆蟲會咬那點。

99.9 percent of the paddy is transplanted manually.

每一年，

No machines have been developed.

99.9 % 的稻田是人工移植的。

So the silence of scientists,

沒有機器開發過。

of technologists, of public policy makers,

科學家，

of the change agent, drew our attention that this is not on, this is not on;

技術人員，公共政黨制定者，

this is not the way society will work.

變革者的沈默，令我們留意到，這不是，這不是，

This is not what our parliament would do. You know,

這不是社會會成功的方法。

we have a program for employment:

這不是我們的議會會做的，你知道。

One hundred, 250 million people

我們有一個就業計劃。

have to be given jobs for 100 days by this great country.

一億，二億五千萬的人

Doing what? Breaking stones, digging earth.

會由這個偉大的國家在 100 天內提供工作。

So we asked a question to the parliament:

做甚麼? 爆石，掘地。

Do poor have heads?

所以我們問議會一個問題，

Do poor have legs, mouth and hands, but no head?

那些貧困的人有頭腦嗎?

So Honey Bee Network builds upon the resource in which poor people are rich.

貧困的人有腳、口和手，但他們沒有頭腦嗎?

And what has happened?

所以 Honey Bee Network 建基於貧困的人們富有的資源。

An anonymous, faceless, nameless person

之後，發生甚麼事?

gets in contact with the network,

匿名的，無面孔的，無名的人

and then gets an identity.

與網絡取得聯繫，

This is what Honey Bee Network is about.

然後得到一個身份。

And this network grew voluntarily,

這是 Honey Bee Network （小蜜蜂网絡）所做的事。

continues to be voluntary,

然而這個網絡自願地成長，

and has tried to map the minds

繼續保持自願，

of millions of people

並嘗試為幾百萬我們國家，

of our country and other parts of the world who are creative.

以及世界其他地方的有創意的人的思維

They could be creative in terms of education,

繪成地圖。

they may be creative in terms of culture,

他們可以是在教育方面有創意;

they may be creative in terms of institutions;

他們可以是在文化方面有創意;

but a lot of our work is in the field of technological creativity,

他們可以是在機構方面有創意;

the innovations,

但大部份我們的工作是在科技上的有創意的，

either in terms of contemporary innovations,

這些發明，

or in terms of traditional knowledge.

不論在當代創新方面，

And it all begins with curiosity.

或在傳統知識方面。

It all begins with curiosity.

這都在好奇心開始。

This person, whom we met -- and you will see it on the website,

這都在好奇心開始。

www.sristi.org -- this tribal person,

這個我們遇到的人，你將會在網站上看到的，

he had a wish.

Soshidoto Arjii 這部落的人，

And he said, "If my wish gets fulfilled" --

他有一個希望。

somebody was sick and he had to monitor --

他說，"假如我的希望可以逹到" ...

"God, please cure him.

有個他要照顧的人生病了...

And if you cure him, I will get my wall painted."

"神，請治癒他。

And this is what he got painted.

假如你治癒他，我會在我的牆畫畫。＂

Somebody was talking yesterday about Maslowian hierarchy.

而這就是他所畫的。

There could be nothing more wrong than

有人昨天討論馬斯洛的需求層次理論。

the Maslowian model of hierarchy of needs

沒有比馬斯洛的需求層次理論

because the poorest people in this country can get enlightenment.

更錯誤的，

Kabir, Rahim, all the great Sufi saints,

因為在這國家裡貧困的人可以得到啟蒙。

they were all poor people,

Kalwi ，拉希姆，所有偉大的蘇非聖人，

and they had a great reason. (Applause)

他們都是很貧困的人，

Please do not ever think that

同時他們都有一個很偉大的原因。

only after meeting your physiological needs and other needs

請不要以為

can you be thinking about your spiritual needs or your enlightenment.

只有滿足到的生理上及其他的需要

Any person anywhere is capable

你才可以去想有關精神上開示的需要。

of rising to that highest point of attainment,

任何人在任何地方都可以

only by the resolve that they have in their mind that they must achieve something.

去提升到最高的成就，

Look at this.

只要立志，在他們腦海中有一定要達到的一些東西。

We saw it in Shodh Yatra. Every six months we walk

看這個。

in different parts of the country.

我們看見 [不清楚] 每六個月我們行過

I've walked about 4,000 kilometers in the last 12 years.

這國家的不同部份。

So on the wayside

在過去 12 年我行了大約 4000 公里。

we found these dung cakes,