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I'm a believer.
譯者: Andrea Huang 審譯者: Chien-Ping 洪健彬 Hung
I'm a believer in global warming,
我是位信徒。我相信全球暖化,
and my record is good
而在這個議題上
on the subject.
我的記錄良好。
But my subject
我的記錄良好。
is national security.
但我要談論的主題
We have to get off of oil purchased
是國家安全。
from the enemy.
我們必須停止從敵人那
I'm talking about OPEC oil.
購買石油。
And let me take you back
我指的是石油輸出國組織的石油。
100 years
讓我帶各位回到
to 1912.
100年前的
You're probably thinking that was my birth year.
1912年。
(Laughter)
各位可能會認為那是我出生的年代
It wasn't. It was 1928.
♪笑聲♪
But go back to 1912,
不是的,我出生於1928年。
100 years ago,
但回到1912年
and look at that point
100年前,
what we, our country, was faced with.
來看看當時
It's the same energy question
我們的國家所面臨的問題。
that you're looking at today,
是與今日我們所面臨的問題
but it's different sources of fuel.
是相同的,
A hundred years ago
只是是不一樣的燃料源。
we were looking at coal, of course,
100年前
and we were looking at whale oil
我們找煤炭,當然啦
and we were looking at crude oil.
我們也在尋找鯨油
At that point,
和原油。
we were looking for a fuel
在當時,
that was cleaner,
我們希望的燃料
it was cheaper,
是較乾淨、
and it wasn't ours though,
較便宜的,
it was theirs.
然而那不是我們的燃料,
So at that point, 1912,
那是他們的。
we selected crude oil over whale oil
在當時1912年,
and some more coal.
我們選擇了原油而不是鯨油
But as we moved on
以及再多點煤炭。
to the period now, 100 years later,
然而往前進
we're back really
到現在,也就是100年後,
at another decision point.
我們確實回到了
What is the decision point?
另一個決策點。
It's what we're going to use
決策點是什麼?
in the future.
就是我們未來要採用
So from here,
什麼燃料。
it's pretty clear to me,
所以從此刻
we would prefer to have
我相當的清楚,
cleaner, cheaper,
我們寧願採用
domestic, ours --
較乾淨、較便宜、
and we have that, we have that --
國內的、我們的--
which is natural gas.
我們有的--
So here you are,
也就是天然氣。
that the cost of all this to the world
來看看這裡,
is 89 million barrels of oil,
全球要為當時決策付出的代價
give or take a few barrels, every day.
是8千9百萬桶石油,
And the cost annually
這大約是每天的用量。
is three trillion dollars.
全年下來的成本
And one trillion of that
是3兆美元。
goes to OPEC.
其中有1兆
That has got to be stopped.
是付給石油輸出國組織。
Now if you look at the cost of OPEC,
一定要中止這樣局勢。
it cost seven trillion dollars --
如果觀察石油輸出國組織的成本,
on the Milken Institute study last year --
成本是7兆美元--
seven trillion dollars
根據米爾肯研究機構去年做的研究--
since 1976,
自從1976年來,
is what we paid for oil from OPEC.
7兆美元
Now that includes the cost of military
是我們從石油輸出國組織所支付的石油成本。
and the cost of the fuel both.
這包含軍事
But it's the greatest transfer of wealth,
以及燃料二種成本。
from one group to another
然而這是在人類歷史上
in the history of mankind.
財富最龐大的從一個組織轉移
And it continues.
到另一個組織。
Now when you look
而且還在持續進行中。
at where is the transfer of wealth,
當你在找
you can see here
財富移轉的地區時
that we have the arrows
你會注意到
going into the Mid-East
有個箭頭
and away from us.
從我們這裡
And with that,
指向中東地區。
we have found ourselves
有鑑於此,
to be the world's policemen.
我們發現自已
We are policing the world,
扮演起世界警察的角色。
and how are we doing that?
我們在維護世界治安,
I know the response to this.
我們怎麼維護世界的治安呢?
I would bet there aren't 10 percent of you in the room
我知道我們如何做的。
that know how many aircraft carriers there are in the world.
我打賭在座不到10%的人
Raise your hand if you think you know.
知道全世界有幾艘航空母艦。
There are 12.
認為自己知道答案的人舉手。
One is under construction by the Chinese
有12艘。
and the other 11 belong to us.
有1艘中國在建造當中
Why do we have 11 aircraft carriers?
另11艘是我們的。
Do we have a corner on the market?
為何要有11艘航空母艦?
Are we smarter than anybody else? I'm not sure.
是因為我們獨占了這個市場嗎?
If you look at where they're located --
還是我們比其它人聰明嗎?我不確定。
and on this slide it's the red blobs on there --
如果觀察航空母艦停泊地--
there are five that are operating in the Mid-East,
這張幻燈片上的紅點標示區--
and the rest of them are in the United States.
有5艘在中東執勤,
They just move back to the Mid-East and those come back.
其餘的在美國。
So actually most of the 11 we have
5艘是剛派遣過去的,這些是剛回來的。
are tied up in the Mid-East.
因此事實上大部分這11艘航空母艦
Why? Why are they in the Mid-East?
都跟中東地區情事相關聯。
They're there to control,
為什麼?航空母艦為何要駐紮中東地區呢?
keep the shipping lanes open
因為要控制當地,
and make oil available.
確保航道通行
And the United States uses about 20 million barrels a day,
以及石油的取得。
which is about 25 percent of all the oil used
美國每天用油量約2千萬桶,
everyday in the world.
約佔全世界每天用油量的
And we're doing it with four percent of the population.
25﹪。
Somehow that doesn't seem right.
而且要4﹪的人口來從事這件事。
That's not sustainable.
這似乎有點怪怪的。
So where do we go from here?
這並不是長遠之計。
Does that continue?
所以我們要怎麼辦呢?
Yes, it's going to continue.
那會持續下去?
The slide you're looking at here
沒錯,狀況會持續下去。
is 1990 to 2040.
這張幻燈片你們看到
Over that period
的是1990到2040年。
you are going to double your demand.
在這期間
And when you look at what we're using the oil for,
對油的需求量會變雙倍。
70 percent of it
來看看我們應用石油在哪些領域,
is used for transportation fuel.
70﹪
So when somebody says,
是用在交通運輸上。
"Let's go more nuclear,
因此當有人提倡,
let's go wind, let's go solar,"
“用核能、
fine; I'm for anything American,
風能、太陽能吧“,
anything American.
對我來說用什麼都好;只要是美國做的我都贊成,
But if you're going to do anything
是美國自己生產的都行。
about the dependency on foreign oil,
然而如果是以仰賴
you have to address transportation.
國外燃料為出發點,
So here we are
那麼就必須滿足運輸使用燃料的問題。
using 20 million barrels a day --
我們
producing eight, importing 12,
每天用掉2千萬桶石油--
and from the 12,
自產8百萬桶,進口1千兩百萬桶,
five comes from OPEC.
這1千兩百萬桶之中,
When you look at the biggest user and the second largest user,
有5百萬桶來至石油輸出國組織。
we use 20 million barrels
來看看世界第一及第二用油國家,
and the Chinese use 10.
我們用2千萬桶
The Chinese have a little bit better plan --
中國用1千萬桶。
or they have a plan;
中國有較佳的規劃--
we have no plan.
或者說他們有了計劃;
In the history of America,
而我們沒有。
we've never had an energy plan.
由美國歴史中看來,
We don't even realize the resources
我們從來沒有過有能源規劃。
that we have available to us.
我們甚至不知道
If you take the last 10 years
自己有什麼可用的資源。
and bring forward,
如果把過去10年
you've transferred to OPEC a trillion dollars.
拿出來計算,
If you go forward the next 10 years
我們已經付了1兆美元給石油輸出國組織。
and cap the price of oil at 100 dollars a barrel,
如果再往未來估算10年
you will pay 2.2 trillion.
並限制每桶石油價格為100美元,
That's not sustainable either.
要支付的費用為2.2兆美元。
But the days of cheap oil are over.
這不也不是長久之計。
They're over.
但廉價石油的時代已經結束了。
They make it very clear to you,
時代結束了。
the Saudis do,
他們很清楚的向你表示,
they have to have 94 dollars a barrel
沙烏地表示,
to make their social commitments.
油價必須每桶來到94美元
Now I had people in Washington last week told me,
他們才要履行供應的社會責任。
he said, "The Saudis can produce the oil
上周一位華盛頓的人士跟我說,
for five dollars a barrel.
“沙烏地生產石油
That has nothing to do with it.
每桶成本是5美元。
It's what they have to pay for
那根本無法可管,
is what we are going to pay for oil."
也就是油價不管多高
There is no free market for oil.
全民都必須照單全收”。
The oil is priced off the margin.
石油沒有所謂的自由市場機制。
And the OPEC nations
油價是以利潤定價。
are the ones that price the oil.
油價是由石油輸出國組織
So where are we headed from here?
制定的。
We're headed to natural gas.
因此從這個局勢我們被導向何處呢?
Natural gas will do everything
我們被導向天然氣。
we want it to do.
天然氣可以幫
It's 130 octane fuel.
我們解決每個問題。
It's 25 percent cleaner than oil.
天然氣是130辛烷值燃料。
It's ours, we have an abundance of it.
它比石油清潔25﹪。
And it does not require a refinery.
是我們自有的,我們有豐富的儲藏量。
It comes out of the ground at 130 octane.
它不需要煉油廠再提煉。
Run it through the separator and you're ready to use it.
從地底開採出來就是130辛烷值了。
It's going to be very simple for us to use.
通過分離器後就可以用了。
It's going to be simple to accomplish this.
對我們而言使用上將會相當的便利。
You're going to find, and I'll tell you in just a minute,
很簡單就能做到。
what you're looking for to make it happen.
你們會得到你們殷切期盼的解答,
But here you can look at the list.
而我待會將馬上向你們說明。
Natural gas will fit all of those.
先來看看這張圖表,
It will replace or be able to be used for that.
天然氣可以解決所有這些問題。
It's for power generation, transportation,
它可以取代或做為可適用性燃料。
it's peaking fuel, it's all those.
可用在發電、交通、
Do we have enough natural gas?
燃值高、這些都是它的優勢。
Look at the bar on the left. It's 24 trillion.
我們有足夠的天然氣儲藏量嗎?
It's what we use a year.
看左邊這個長條圖。24兆
Go forward
是我們一年的用量。
and the estimates that you have
再下來
from the EIA and onto the industry estimates --
看到美國能源信息署的
the industry knows what they're talking about --
估計以及工業估計--
we've got 4,000 trillion cubic feet
該工業非常清楚自己在講什麼--
of natural gas that's available to us.
將近4千兆立方尺
How does that translate
的天然氣量供我們使用。
to barrels of oil equivalent?
這大約等於
It would be three times
多少桶的原油呢?
what the Saudis claim they have.
是沙烏地所宣稱
And they claim they have 250 billion barrels of oil,
擁有石油量的三倍。
which I do not believe.
他們宣稱擁有2千5百億桶原油,
I think it's probably 175 billion barrels.
我不相信。
But anyway, whether they say they're right or whatever,
我認為應該只有1千750億桶。
we have plenty of natural gas.
但不論他們說的正不正確,
So I have tried to target
我們有很富豐的天然氣。
on where we use the natural gas.
所以我要著眼
And where I've targeted
在天然氣的應用方向。
is on the heavy-duty trucks.
我的目標是
There are eight million of them.
重型卡車。
You take eight million trucks --
有8百萬輛卡車。
these are 18-wheelers --
8百萬輛卡車--
and take them to natural gas,
18個輪子的卡車--
reduce carbon by 30 percent,
採用天然氣的話,
it is cheaper
可以減少30﹪的二氧化碳,
and it will cut our imports
它價格較便宜
three million barrels.
而且可以降低3百萬桶
So you will cut 60 percent off of OPEC
的石油進口量。
with eight million trucks.
如此一來,以8百萬輛的卡車就可以減少從石油輸出國組織
There are 250 million vehicles in America.
進口石油量的60﹪。
So what you have
全美有2億5千萬輛的汽車。
is natural gas is the bridge fuel,
因此
is the way I see it.
天然氣是銜接燃料,
I don't have to worry
我是這麼認為的。
about the bridge to where at my age.
以我的年紀,我不必擔心
(Laughter)
這座橋樑銜接到什麼燃料。
That's your concern.
♪眾笑♪
But when you look at the natural gas we have
那是你們要擔心的。
it could very well be
然而檢視我們擁有的天然氣,
the bridge to natural gas,
它會是相當好的
because you have plenty of natural gas.
橋接燃料,
But as I said, I'm for anything American.
因為它的蘊藏量豐富。
Now let me take you -- I've been a realist --
然而就如我之前說的,只要是美國自產的我都接受。
I went from theorist early to realist.
現在讓我來帶領你們--我一直是唯實論者--
I'm back to theorist again.
我從早期的理論者變成現唯實論者。
If you look at the world,
現在我又回到理論學派。
you have methane hydrates in the ocean
看看這世界,
around every continent.
各大洲被含甲烷水合物
And here you can see methane,
的海洋包圍著。
if that's the way you're going to go,
甲烷隨處可見,
that there's plenty of methane --
假使要應用甲烷水合物,
natural gas is methane,
那麼那是相當的富足的燃料--
methane and natural gas are interchangeable --
天然氣就是甲烷,
but if you decide
二者是可以互相交換的--
that you're going to use some methane --
然而如果你們決定
and I'm gone, so it's up to you --
要採用些甲烷--
but we do have
而我不在人世,因此決定權在你們--
plenty of methane hydrates.
但我們的確擁有
So I think I've made my point
相當豐富的甲烷水合物。
that we have to get on our own resources in America.
因此,我想我的論點已經很清楚了:
If we do --
我們要用美國自有的資源。
it's costing us a billion dollars a day for oil.
如果這麼做的話--
And yet, we have no energy plan.
我們一天用在石油的花費要10億美元。
So there's nothing going on
然而我們確沒有應變的能源規劃。
that impresses me
因此,
in Washington on that plan,
華府對於能源所做規劃,
other than I'm trying to focus
一點也沒有
on that eight million 18-wheelers.
比我專注於解決
If we could do that,
8百萬輛重型卡車的燃料所需來的實際。
I think we would take our first step
假定我們能夠這麼做的話,
to an energy plan.
我想我們就能向能源計劃
If we did, we could see
跨出第一步了。
that our own resources are easier to use
如果我們去做了,會了解
than anybody can imagine.
採用我們自有資源,會比任何人想像
Thank you.
要來的容易。
(Applause)
謝謝各位。
Chris Anderson: Thanks for that.
♪掌聲♪
So from your point of view,
克里斯·安德森:謝謝你的演說。
you had this great Pickens Plan
從你的觀點來看,
that was based on wind energy,
你曾有個偉大的皮肯斯計劃
and you abandoned it basically
是以風能為主軸,
because the economics changed.
而之後放棄這個計劃是基於
What happened?
經濟的變動。
TBP: I lost 150 million dollars.
發生了什麼事?
(Laughter)
提 布恩·皮肯斯回答:我損失了1億5千萬美元。
That'll make you abandon something.
♪笑聲♪
No, what happened to us, Chris,
那會讓你放棄某件事情。
is that power, it's priced off the margin.
不是的,克里斯,
And so the margin is natural gas.
以利潤做為標價原則改變了我們的計劃。
And at the time I went into the wind business,
而利潤就是天然氣。
natural gas was nine dollars.
當時我進入風能產業時,
Today it's two dollars and forty cents.
天然氣是9美元。
You cannot do a wind deal
今天天然氣的價格是2.4美元。
under six dollars an MCF.
風能價格低於
CA: So what happened was
1千立方尺6美元是做不起來的。
that, through increased ability
克里斯:所以事情的原委就是
to use fracking technology,
因為透過
the calculated reserves of natural gas kind of exploded
水力壓裂鑽井技術的提昇,
and the price plummeted,
天然氣的估計儲備量爆增
which made wind uncompetitive.
以及價格的爆跌
In a nutshell that's what happened?
是導致風能失去競爭力的原因。
TBP: That's what happened.
簡言之就是這樣嗎?
We found out that we could go to the source rock,
提 布恩·皮肯斯:是的。
which were the carboniferous shales in the basins.
我們發現水力壓裂鑽井技術可以用在生油岩
The first one was Barnett Shale in Texas
也就是石炭系頁岩盆地。
and then the Marcellus up in the Northeast
第一個是德州的巴納特頁岩
across New York, Pennsylvania, West Virginia;
接著是東北方這個含概紐約、賓州、西維吉尼亞
and Haynesville in Louisiana.
的馬塞勒斯頁岩;
This stuff is everywhere.
以及在路易斯安那州的海納斯維爾頁岩。
We are overwhelmed with natural gas.
頁岩到處都是。
CA: And now you're a big investor in that and bringing that to market?
天然氣多到讓我們不知所措。
TBP: Well you say a big investor.
克里斯:所以你現在作大投資,並且向市場引進這個技術?
It's my life.
提·布恩·皮肯斯:你稱我為大投資者。
I'm a geologist, got out of school in '51,
我認為它是我的生命。
and I've been in the industry my entire life.
我是位地質學家,1951年從學校畢業,
Now I do own stocks.
我一生都待在這個產業。
I'm not a big natural gas producer.
現在我確認持有股票。
Somebody the other day said
但我不是產天然氣的大廠。
I was the second largest natural gas producer in the United States.
過去有人說過
Don't I wish.
我是美國第二大天然氣生產商。
But no, I'm not. I own stocks.
我也希望是。
But I also am in the fueling business.
但我不是。我只是持股而己。
CA: But natural gas is a fossil fuel.
而我也涉足燃料業務。
You burn it,
克里斯:但是天然氣是化石燃料。
you release CO2.
燃燒天然氣
So you believe in the threat of climate change.
會釋出二氧化碳。
Why doesn't that prospect
既然你相信氣候變遷的威脅
concern you?
為何你不擔心
TBP: Well you're going to have to use something.
它會衍生的問題呢?
What do you have to replace it?
提·布恩·皮肯斯:你還是得使用燃料呀。
(Laughter)
你要用什麼來替代呢?
CA: No, no. The argument that it's a bridge fuel makes sense,
♪笑聲♪
because the amount of CO2 per unit of energy
克里斯:不是在說那件事。橋接燃料的論點合理,
is lower than oil and coal, correct?
因為每能量單位的二氧化碳含量
And so everyone can be at least happy
低於石油及煤炭,對吧?
to see a shift from coal or oil to natural gas.
因此,基於這點,大家至少會欣然接受
But if that's it
由用煤炭或石油轉移到使用天然氣。
and that becomes the reason
但如果就僅僅這樣,
that renewables don't get invested in,
而因此
then, long-term, we're screwed anyway, right?
再生能源沒人投資發展,
TBP: Well I'm not ready to give up,
那麼,長期下我們還是得自食惡果,不是嗎?
but Jim and I talked
提·布恩·皮肯斯:讓我再補充說明一下,
there as he left,
吉姆離開那時,
and I said, "How do you feel about natural gas?"
我跟他談了一下話,
And he said, "Well it's a bridge fuel, is what it is."
我問他:"你覺得天然氣可行嗎?
And I said, "Bridge to what?
他回答:"它可做為橋接燃料,就這樣"。
Where are we headed?"
我接著問:"橋接什麼燃料呢?
See but again, I told you, I don't have to worry with that.
我們的目標在哪?"
You all do.
看吧,就如我講的,我不用去擔心這個問題。
CA: But I don't think that's right, Boone.
你們才要擔心。
I think you're a person who believes in your legacy.
克里斯:但是布恩,我不認為那樣想是對的。
You've made the money you need.
我認為你是位為後代樹立典範的人。
You're one of the few people in a position
你要的財富都賺到了。
to really swing the debate.
你是少數幾位
Do you support the idea of some kind of price on carbon?
能影響輿論的有力人士。
Does that make sense?
你支持按二氧化碳課費的概念嗎?
TBP: I don't like that
那樣做有意義嗎?
because it ends up the government is going to run the program.
提·布恩·皮肯斯:我不喜歡
I can tell you it will be a failure.
因為到頭來那是由政府來操作。
The government is not successful
我敢說那一定會失敗的。
on these things.
政府無法成功的
They just aren't, it's a bad deal.
推動這些事情。
Look at Solyndra, or whatever it was.
它們就是做不到。那是個壞點子。
I mean, that was told to be a bad idea 10 times,
看看索林卓太陽能公司或其它例子就知道。
they went ahead and did it anyway.
我的意義是,那計劃大家都認為爛透了,
But that only blew out 500 million.
但政府還是做了。
I think it's closer to a billion.
雖然只搞砸5億美金。
But Chris, I think where we're headed,
但我認為應該有將近10億。
the long-term,
但是克里斯,我認為我們的方向
I don't mind going back to nuclear.
長期而言,
And I can tell you what the last page
可以採用核能。
of the report that will take them five years to write
我可以跟你們說
will be.
它們花上5年時間所撰寫的核能報告的最後一頁
One, don't build a reformer on a fault.
內容寫什麼。
(Laughter)
第一:不要在斷層帶上建造重組器。
And number two,
♪笑聲♪
do not build a reformer on the ocean.
第二:
And now I think reformers are safe.
重組器不能建在海上。
Move them inland
這麼一來,我認為重組器就很安全了。
and on very stable ground
將重組器移到陸上
and build the reformers.
在地質相當穏定的地方
There isn't anything wrong with nuke.
來蓋重組器。
You're going to have to have energy. There is no question.
核能本身沒什麼問題。
You can't -- okay.
大家都需要能源。這是毫無疑問的。
CA: One of the questions from the audience
沒辦法不用能源--就這樣。
is, with fracking and the natural gas process,
克里斯:聽眾有個問題要請教
what about the problem of methane leaking from that,
採用水力壓裂鑽井技術以及天然氣製程的話,
methane being a worse global warming gas
那麼甲烷洩漏的問題要如何應變呢?
than CO2?
甲烷是比二氧化碳還要糟糕
Is that a concern?
的溫室氣體。
TBP: Fracking? What is fracking?
難到不用擔心這點嗎?
CA: Fracking.
提·布恩·皮肯斯:水力鴨子?那是什麼?(英美對a的發音不同)
TBP: I'm teasing.
克里斯:水力壓裂。
(Laughter)
提·布恩·皮肯斯:逗你的啦。
CA: We've got a little bit of accent incompatibility here, you know.
♪笑聲♪
TBP: No, let me tell you,
克里斯:你知道的,我們在發音上是有點不太一致的。
I've told you what my age was.
提·布恩·皮肯斯:我跟你說,
I got out of school in '51.
我已經說過我的年紀了。
I witnessed my first frack job
我1951年從學校畢業。
at border Texas in 1953.
1953年我第一次參與的水力壓裂鑽井工程
Fracking came out in '47,
是在德州邊界。
and don't believe for a minute
水力壓裂鑽井技術是在1947年發明的,
when our president gets up there
我真不敢相信
and says the Department of Energy 30 years ago
我們的總統到了那
developed fracking.
說水力壓裂鑽井技術是30年前
I don't know what in the hell he's talking about.
能源部發明的。
I mean seriously, the Department of Energy
真不知道他到底在說什麼。
did not have anything to do with fracking.
我說真的,那時能源部
The first frack job was in '47.
不知道什麼是水力壓裂鑽井技術。
I saw my first one in '53.
第一件水力壓裂鑽井工程是在1947年。
I've fracked over 3,000 wells in my life.
我第一次參與是1953年。
Never had a problem
我此生已水力壓裂鑽超過3千口井。
with messing up an aquifer or anything else.
從來沒有
Now the largest aquifer in North America
破壞過含水層或引發任何問題。
is from Midland, Texas to the South Dakota border,
北美最大的含水層
across eight states --
是從德州的米德蘭市到南達科塔州州界,
big aquifer:
縱貫了8個州--
Ogallala, Triassic age.
這片廣大的含水層被稱為:
There had to have been 800,000 wells fracked
奧加拉拉含水層,型成於三疊紀。
in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas
在那片含水層中,
in that aquifer.
奧克拉何馬州、德州及堪薩斯州,已經有超過80萬口天然氣井
There's no problems.
是以水力壓裂鑽鑿。
I don't understand why
都沒出現過問題。
the media is focused on Eastern Pennsylvania.
我不了解為何
CA: All right, so you don't support a carbon tax of any kind
媒體要聚焦在賓州東部。
or a price on carbon.
克里斯:好的,所以你不支持課征任何形式的碳稅
Your picture then I guess
或碳費。
of how the world eventually gets off fossil fuels
那麼我認為
is through innovation ultimately,
世界最終如何擺脫化石燃料
that we'll someday make solar and nuclear cost competitive?
在你的構想下,是藉由創新來達成,
TBP: Solar and wind, Jim and I agreed on that in 13 seconds.
也就是說未來我們會將太陽能與核能發展到具成本競爭力嗎?
That is, it's going to be a small part,
提·布恩·皮肯斯:提姆跟我對太陽及風能只稍稍認同了一會。
because you can't rely on it.
就只有短短13秒而已。那部分實在太小了,
CA: So how does the world get off fossil fuels?
以致於不可靠。
TBP: How do we get there?
克里斯:那麼如何擺脫化石燃料?
We have so much natural gas,
提·布恩·皮肯斯:如何擺脫?
a day will not come
我們有那麼富豐的天然氣,
where you say, "Well let's don't use that anymore."
你們所謂的
You'll keep using it. It is the cleanest of all.
"不再用化石燃料"的那天是不會到來的。
And if you look at California,
會一直使用。它是最乾淨的能源。
they use 2,500 buses.
看看加州,
LAMTA have been on natural gas
它們有2千5百輛巴士。
for 25 years.
洛杉磯大都會運輸署採用天然氣巴士
The Ft. Worth T
有25年了。
has been on it for 25 years.
沃斯堡大眾運輸
Why? Air quality was the reason they used natural gas
採用天然氣巴士也有25年。
and got away from diesel.
那是為什麼?維護空氣品質是它們採用天然氣
Why are all the trash trucks today in Southern California
而不用柴油的原因。
on natural gas?
南加州全部的垃圾車為何都
It's because of air quality.
採用天然氣?
I know what you're telling me, and I'm not disagreeing with you.
是為了維護空氣品質。
How in the hell can we get off the natural gas at some point?
我知道你要傳達給我的訊息為何,我不反對你的論點。
And I say, that is your problem.
我們究竟要如何擺脫天氣然?
(Laughter)
我的答案是,那是你們要解決的。
CA: All right,
♪笑聲♪
so it's the bridge fuel.
克里斯:好吧,
What is at the other end of that bridge
它是做為銜接燃料的。
is for this audience to figure out.
銜接到何處
If someone comes to you with a plan
是在座各位要解決的問題。
that really looks like it might be part of this solution,
如果有人向你提個計劃
are you ready to invest in those technologies,
那計劃真的有可能是解決方案的一部分,
even if they aren't maximized for profits,
你會投資那些技術,
they might be maximized for the future health of the planet?
即便那不是很有利潤,
TBP: I lost 150 million on the wind, okay.
但可能會為地球生靈的未來福祉帶來最大的利益嗎?
Yeah, sure, I'm game for it.
提·布恩·皮肯斯:我已損失1億5千萬在開發風能上了。
Because, again,
所以當然了,我會投資的。
I'm trying to get energy solved for America.
原因再說一次,
And anything American
我一直努力的在為美國解決能源議題。
will work for me.
只要是出自於美國,
CA: Boone, I really, really appreciate you coming here,
我都認同。
engaging in this conversation.
克里斯:布恩,我真的相當感激你到這裡來
I think there's a lot of people who will want to engage with you.
做這演說。
And that was a real gift you gave this audience.
我想很多人都想要跟你交流。
Thank you so much. (TBP: You bet, Chris. Thank you.)
你給聽眾們的演說真的相當的寶貴。
(Applause)
非常感謝你。(提·布恩·皮肯斯:不客氣。謝謝。)